OT: COVID Science - Pfizer/Moderna vaccines >90% effective; Regeneron antibody cocktail looks very promising in phase II/III trial and more

[T2Kplus10]

Since you're being obstinate on this, here's the graphic on 2019 global sales. I rest my case. And your "best and brightest" comment is just silly. All 4 of the top companies below are highly competitive in attracting top vaccine talent and innovating in the vaccine space.

Why do you think sales is the right metric for this topic? Very weird.

 

[ArminRU]

I had that 15 years ago. Not a fun thing to get. Fortunately it went away after 3 weeks of accupuncture or stimulus.

Yeah it’s one of those mysterious illnesses. 4 people randomly got it in the vaccine arm, 0 in placebo. 1 of the 4 looks to be caused by something previous. And the 4 people getting it is about the same rate as the general population. Just looks worse than it is cause the placebo had 0.

 

[RUBOB72]

Sanofi is the world leader in vaccines and its tech. Not even close. The best and brightest scientists go there to work on vaccines.

Sitting here reading this back n forth and admit very interesting to hear. Only recently there was an article which stated Sanofi was the top vaccine producer in the world. All said we don’t care who is # 1-2-3 as long as we get a proven vaccine , with efficacy and data driven proof within the next 1-2 months.

 

[RUBOB72]

Why do you think sales is the right metric for this topic? Very weird.

Agree with the question being asked . Why should sales determine the top vaccine producer ? Seems quite odd and as I just read within the past week ( for the 2nd time) the top research company on vaccines was Sanofi... Sales is a whole different animal in the game.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Agree with the question being asked . Why should sales determine the top vaccine producer ? Seems quite odd and as I just read within the past week ( for the 2nd time) the top research company on vaccines was Sanofi... Sales is a whole different animal in the game.

+1
Selling old vaccines and past tech is no indication of innovation and future research. As you mentioned, Sanofi is universally recognized as the top vaccine company.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Yeah it’s one of those mysterious illnesses. 4 people randomly got it in the vaccine arm, 0 in placebo. 1 of the 4 looks to be caused by something previous. And the 4 people getting it is about the same rate as the general population. Just looks worse than it is cause the placebo had 0.

The power of randomization and probabilities.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Power data on the first dose of Pfizer's vaccine:

Pfizer’s vaccine is given in two doses — but FDA says first dose alone is highly effective

A single dose of Pfizer’s vaccine helped prevent severe COVID-19 illnesses in volunteers.

thehill.com

Ahead of Pfizer and BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine candidate being approved for emergency use by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), new documents reveal that the vaccine maintained its high efficacy rate, even with just one dose.

Now, new documents reveal that the vaccine showcases an 88.9 efficacy rate following just one dose. The FDA released the documents ahead of a Dec. 10 meeting between the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research’s (CBER), Vaccines and the Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC) to discuss emergency use authorization for the vaccine.

 

[WhiteBus]

2nd person to get vaccinated in the UK today was William Shakespeare, 81. Could have sworn he was older than that. Lol

 

[Knight Shift]

Yep, this is what a highly proactive government and a populace willing to sacrifice a bit for the common good look like. One can debate whether Taiwan's approach could have worked here, but it wasn't even considered, much less tried. I'm convinced that universal masking in East Asian countries is the biggest reason they've all done so well. It doesn't hurt that most of them also have had aggressive testing to identify emerging hotspots and isolating to prevent those from growing. Talked about a lot of this way back in March...

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...es-interventions-and-more.191275/post-4455708

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ventions-and-more.191275/page-16#post-4451746

The Taiwan approach would have been roundly rejected by a large segment of the population, just as we are seeing now. It would have been a combination of the current "don't tread on my freedom/rights" crowd mixed with the Orange Man Bad crowd who would have been screaming about deploying the military on citizens. Maybe if this was done, we could have seen two polar opposite sides meet in streets for a common cause protest and a group hug.

(the above post was mostly sarcastic, but partially an earnest prediction of what would have happened).

 

[bac2therac]

Yep, this is what a highly proactive government and a populace willing to sacrifice a bit for the common good look like. One can debate whether Taiwan's approach could have worked here, but it wasn't even considered, much less tried. I'm convinced that universal masking in East Asian countries is the biggest reason they've all done so well. It doesn't hurt that most of them also have had aggressive testing to identify emerging hotspots and isolating to prevent those from growing. Talked about a lot of this way back in March...

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...es-interventions-and-more.191275/post-4455708

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ventions-and-more.191275/page-16#post-4451746

its absurd to bring up Taiwan

guess what instead of criticizing the US response, quite frankly what we have seen has been amazing given the circumstance. Americans should lauded for what they have sacrificied in all aspects of their lives, not shamed and told they are not doing enough..its bizarre to watch

 

[fsg2]

its absurd to bring up Taiwan

guess what instead of criticizing the US response, quite frankly what we have seen has been amazing given the circumstance. Americans should lauded for what they have sacrificied in all aspects of their lives, not shamed and told they are not doing enough..its bizarre to watch

Awww ...does someone need a trophy?

 

[bac2therac]

Explainer-I just got a COVID-19 vaccine. Now what?

Britain on Tuesday became the first country in the world to roll out the COVID-19 vaccine developed by Pfizer Inc and BioNTech SE , initially making the shot available at 50 hospitals.

www.reuters.com

Clinical trials so far have not been designed to determine if an immunized person can still spread the coronavirus to someone else. Some vaccines, such as hepatitis A, do provide such protection - known as sterilizing immunity - but others do not. COVID-19 vaccine makers focused trials on determining whether the drug stopped people from getting ill.

Since there is no evidence that the immunization prevents transmission of the virus - and no vaccine is 100% effective - scientists call for continued vigilance, including mask-wearing, hand-washing and social distancing.

“As with all vaccines, it may work really great in certain patient subsets, but not as well in others ... Does that mean you are free to hop on a plane or have 30 people over at your house? Probably not,” said Dr. Michelle Barron, senior medical director for infection prevention at Colorado’s UCHealth.

lmfao

 

[RUBOB72]

its absurd to bring up Taiwan

guess what instead of criticizing the US response, quite frankly what we have seen has been amazing given the circumstance. Americans should lauded for what they have sacrificied in all aspects of their lives, not shamed and told they are not doing enough..its bizarre to watch

Well it’s easy for the left “elitists” to show scorn and contempt by shaming everyday Americans. I mean they certainly are entitled as Keepers of the Kingdom . For the most part Americans have done exactly what these clowns asked of us ... including masks, social distancing and hand washing. To be chastised for holding a family gathering , going to a restaurant or traveling is so hypocritical. We have allowed them to do this and so it is basically shame on us at this point. In 11 months we still have not conclusively determined how and where it spreads ... who is spreading it the most... I believe it is the 18-45 age group who are our “ secret spreader “ group? It’s not children under 16 ... it’s not the 65 + and up... it’s not likely that those between 50-60 are the issue. Seems as though in 11 months we would have a much better grasp and we don’t. Like putting lipstick on pig.

 

[bac2therac]

almost half deaths are still occurring in nursing homes..no one here wants to talk about it...the failure 9 months in to protect them is criminal...of course the reality is coming into play that many of these people would be dying anyway. Dementia patients are dying at a pretty rapid rate..not from covid but from wasting away because of lockdowns and resrictions..

they keep bringing up protecting grandma yet ignoring the #1 place for deaths, its really odd but entirely expected

 

[RUBOB72]

almost half deaths are still occurring in nursing homes..no one here wants to talk about it...the failure 9 months in to protect them is criminal...of course the reality is coming into play that many of these people would be dying anyway. Dementia patients are dying at a pretty rapid rate..not from covid but from wasting away because of lockdowns and resrictions..

they keep bringing up protecting grandma yet ignoring the #1 place for deaths, its really odd but entirely expected

Hey don’t try to blame Academy Award winner Andrew Cuomo or future Ambassador to China Phil Murphy ... people don’t care about those in LTC facilities ( well perhaps family members do? ) for if they actually did this would not be happening... Nobody in media questioning this and funny not many in the medical profession. There is something really wrong with this scenario.

 

[ArminRU]

Good article summing up the FDA report. The chart they include is an amazing visual.

FDA scientists endorse ‘highly effective’ Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine ahead of key panel

Scientists at the FDA endorsed the efficacy and safety of the Covid-19 vaccine from Pfizer and BioNTech in detailed documents, setting the stage for an emergency authorization as early as this week.

www.statnews.com

 

[RU848789]

Why do you think sales is the right metric for this topic? Very weird.

Ok, show me something that shows Sanofi is the best. Even this McKinsey report on the state of vaccines says that development of new vaccines has slowed across the board for the "big 4" (Merck, Pfizer, GSK, and Sanofi). Also, Merck's new and improved Pneumovax vaccine is poised to take on Pfizer's leading vaccine in the field and Merck led one of the most brilliant vaccine development programs in years with its work on the very effective Ebola vaccine and they have a solid pipeline. And both Merck and Sanofi were a bit slow on COVID - it happens.

https://www.mckinsey.com/industries.../refueling-the-innovation-engine-in-vaccines#

 

[RUBOB72]

Ok, show me something that shows Sanofi is the best. Even this McKinsey report on the state of vaccines says that development of new vaccines has slowed across the board for the "big 4" (Merck, Pfizer, GSK, and Sanofi). Also, Merck's new and improved Pneumovax vaccine is poised to take on Pfizer's leading vaccine in the field and Merck led one of the most brilliant vaccine development programs in years with its work on the very effective Ebola vaccine and they have a solid pipeline. And both Merck and Sanofi were a bit slow on COVID - it happens.

https://www.mckinsey.com/industries.../refueling-the-innovation-engine-in-vaccines#

I believe his post is clearly stating that it’s an arbitrary issue since promotional marketing and lobbyists certainly help control the ratings systems to some extent. Regardless we just want some to work though conjecture by some medical pros still say it could be years of masks, social distancing and washy , washy.

 

[RobertG]

Yep, this is what a highly proactive government and a populace willing to sacrifice a bit for the common good look like. One can debate whether Taiwan's approach could have worked here, but it wasn't even considered, much less tried. I'm convinced that universal masking in East Asian countries is the biggest reason they've all done so well. It doesn't hurt that most of them also have had aggressive testing to identify emerging hotspots and isolating to prevent those from growing. Talked about a lot of this way back in March...

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...es-interventions-and-more.191275/post-4455708

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ventions-and-more.191275/page-16#post-4451746

It does help that Taiwan has been on a war footing with China since the 50's (?) so I think their populace is primed for this kind of response. It hurts us that our current state of out politics is division and the default reaction from both sides is resistance.

The initial position on masking may have been the second biggest mistake, the first being the 3 week cluster f*** with the CDC tests.

 

[AntiG]

It does help that Taiwan has been on a war footing with China since the 50's (?) so I think their populace is primed for this kind of response. It hurts us that our current state of out politics is division and the default reaction from both sides is resistance.

The initial position on masking may have been the second biggest mistake, the first being the 3 week cluster f*** with the CDC tests.

Taiwan has zero trust of anything coming out of China, and have a close eye on affairs there, so once news broke out of some infection disease raging there, Taiwan immediately banned any travel to and from China other than Taiwanese citizens coming home (and were required to do a 2 week mandatory true quarantine - no going outside at all, controlled transfer, phone monitoring/tracking and regular checkins). It also helps that Taiwanese people have the Japanese cultural background where in general you try to do the right thing, follow the rules, and think of your elders; and at least currently have an extremely trustworthy government under President Tsai after decades of corruption and evil deeds by the KMT there. They are also excluded from the WHO which gave them a leg up in battling this virus since the corrupt-ass WHO covered it up on Xi's request. I saw all of this first hand since I was in Taiwan in late January to spend lunar new year with my family there.

What applied in Taiwan wouldn't apply here - liberties and privacy won't be given up by the people here, nor do enough people on either side of the political aisle give enough shits about others, and only show "care" when they virtue signal on social media. Trump banned travel from China as soon as he could, while Biden and other Dems called him xenophobic and racist!!1111 and to magnify things worse, Cuomo and DeBlasio poo-poo'd it at first and encouraged people to publicly gather so regardless who was in power, there would have been a major ****up in this country... on top of that DeBlasio already auctioned off the ventilator stockpile in NYC and prevented teachers from reporting the illness numbers early on, Cuomo sold off the ventilator factory in Buffalo to Elon Musk for solar use, Cuomo had his nursing home stupidity that killed off thousands. Trump proceeded to follow what he did correctly in banning China with using poor phrasing to try to keep the country from panicking instead of simply explaining the theory behind masking up and washing hands clearly, so that was where he screwed up. And of course you have lockdowns which destroy small businesses which get pushed over to the big corps, and the people in the lockdown states rebel as well as those BLM protests that all created potential superspreaders.

And guess what, same thing happened in Europe. Taiwan was the only one that did it right, but the main reason was that they were banned from the WHO and knew China's CCP is the modern day Nazi party and is never to be trusted. That's why they are in such great shape there.

 

[bac2therac]

 

[bac2therac]

amazing...the public will not buy this, once they get the vaccine they are not living their lives with masks and such for an extended period of time

if vaccinated people are silent spreaders of the virus, they may keep it circulating in their communities, putting unvaccinated people at risk.

“A lot of people are thinking that once they get vaccinated, they’re not going to have to wear masks anymore,” said Michal Tal, an immunologist at Stanford University. “It’s really going to be critical for them to know if they have to keep wearing masks, because they could still be contagious.”

 

[RUBOB72]

amazing...the public will not buy this, once they get the vaccine they are not living their lives with masks and such for an extended period of time

if vaccinated people are silent spreaders of the virus, they may keep it circulating in their communities, putting unvaccinated people at risk.

“A lot of people are thinking that once they get vaccinated, they’re not going to have to wear masks anymore,” said Michal Tal, an immunologist at Stanford University. “It’s really going to be critical for them to know if they have to keep wearing masks, because they could still be contagious.”

It won’t fly and I have no doubt it’ll become “ Katie bar the door in the US.”

 

[fsg2]

amazing...the public will not buy this, once they get the vaccine they are not living their lives with masks and such for an extended period of time

if vaccinated people are silent spreaders of the virus, they may keep it circulating in their communities, putting unvaccinated people at risk.

“A lot of people are thinking that once they get vaccinated, they’re not going to have to wear masks anymore,” said Michal Tal, an immunologist at Stanford University. “It’s really going to be critical for them to know if they have to keep wearing masks, because they could still be contagious.”

😭😭

 

[King of S]

View embedded media

It’s called - no chance! Mask are gone for most by May.

 

[RU848789]

Power data on the first dose of Pfizer's vaccine:

Pfizer’s vaccine is given in two doses — but FDA says first dose alone is highly effective

A single dose of Pfizer’s vaccine helped prevent severe COVID-19 illnesses in volunteers.

thehill.com

Ahead of Pfizer and BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine candidate being approved for emergency use by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), new documents reveal that the vaccine maintained its high efficacy rate, even with just one dose.

Now, new documents reveal that the vaccine showcases an 88.9 efficacy rate following just one dose. The FDA released the documents ahead of a Dec. 10 meeting between the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research’s (CBER), Vaccines and the Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC) to discuss emergency use authorization for the vaccine.

Here's the detailed FDA report on the Pfizer vaccine and it contains a great graphic showing the efficacy for a single dose, although people need to keep in mind that everyone got a 2nd dose 3 weeks after the first dose, so the amount of time with a single dose was short.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download

 

[RUBOB72]

It’s called - no chance! Mask are gone for most by May.

Oh they’ll be gone one way or the other.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Here's the detailed FDA report on the Pfizer vaccine and it contains a great graphic showing the efficacy for a single dose, although people need to keep in mind that everyone got a 2nd dose 3 weeks after the first dose, so the amount of time with a single dose was short.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download

Nice separation by the 10 day mark or so. No additional trend break at the 21 day/2nd dose mark (but unclear on the duration of effect with only 1 dose). Very clean AE profile. I'd take the bitch tomorrow.

 

[T2Kplus10]

if vaccinated people are silent spreaders of the virus, they may keep it circulating in their communities, putting unvaccinated people at risk.

Sounds like clear motivation for everyone to get vaccinated! 😜

 

[ArminRU]

JNJ thinking they’ll have efficacy a little ahead of schedule in January. The benefits of having the virus rage on across the country.

Novavax and Sanofi better hurry up with their P3’s while the testing environment is ripe.

 

[RU23]

Any thoughts on Ivermectin. That’s Martensen’s new big thing

 

[RU848789]

Here's the detailed FDA report on the Pfizer vaccine and it contains a great graphic showing the efficacy for a single dose, although people need to keep in mind that everyone got a 2nd dose 3 weeks after the first dose, so the amount of time with a single dose was short.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download

Another really good blog entry in Science by Derek Lowe on the EUA report from the FDA on Pfizer/BioNTech's vaccine today. He speaks in-depth about the superb ~95% vaccine efficacy, relatively minor side effects, and the encouraging data showing good efficacy even with one shot (before the 2nd shot).

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeli.../the-fda-weighs-its-first-coronavirus-vaccine

He also rehashes several of the areas we just don't know about yet, like whether vaccinated people will still get asymptomatic cases, whether the vaccine reduces infectiousness for those who get it (he thinks it will), potential impacts on future vaccines, whether the placebo group will now get the vaccine (probably some), and concerns over what we'll see over millions of people vaccinated; my posts on that, including his comments in another blog entry on these topics, are linked below.

But having said all that, he feels an emergency use authorization is a slam dunk at tomorrow's FDA meeting, given the benefits hugely outweighing the risks and this pandemic certainly being an emergency - his bottom line on this is in italics below.

Remember, though, what an EUA is for. That word “emergency” is there for a reason: this authorization is for something extremely serious for which there is no available alternative. That’s exactly the situation we find ourselves in, on both counts, and I think that the risk/benefit ratio is clearly, overwhelmingly in favor. Let’s do it.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ase-ii-iii-trial-and-more.203426/post-4817884

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ase-ii-iii-trial-and-more.203426/post-4818420

 

[ArminRU]

Any thoughts on Ivermectin. That’s Martensen’s new big thing

Small preliminary studies show some benefits, but it’s still pretty foggy if it actually works. There are a few, larger RCT trials underway.

 

[cohwx]

Small preliminary studies show some benefits, but it’s still pretty foggy if it actually works. There are a few, larger RCT trials underway.

It's being pushed hard by a group of doctors including the ones who wrote the EVMS protocol. One of them testified in the senate a day or two ago, you can find that on youtube (Pierre Kory is his name).

I've looked at some of the studies and they look impressive. Not sure what to make of it yet but if I were to get covid I'd ask my doctor to prescribe it.

 

[tom1944]

It's being pushed hard by a group of doctors including the ones who wrote the EVMS protocol. One of them testified in the senate a day or two ago, you can find that on youtube (Pierre Kory is his name).

I've looked at some of the studies and they look impressive. Not sure what to make of it yet but if I were to get covid I'd ask my doctor to prescribe it.

I was just about to ask about this. For some reason this drug is popping up on my internet feed

 

[ArminRU]

It's being pushed hard by a group of doctors including the ones who wrote the EVMS protocol. One of them testified in the senate a day or two ago, you can find that on youtube (Pierre Kory is his name).

I've looked at some of the studies and they look impressive. Not sure what to make of it yet but if I were to get covid I'd ask my doctor to prescribe it.

It looks better than something like HCQ. It’s actually shown some benefit in vitro and in animal studies, but I still think it’s a long shot that this actually works. Def worth the broader RCTs though.

 

[Tango Two]

Rutgers reports first case of recurrence of rare neurological disorder triggered by COVID-19

Patient with history of Guillain–Barré Syndrome experienced autoimmune issues for a third time

www.phillyvoice.com

 

[WhiteBus]

So have been lectured by the Philly Mayor and the PA Governor for months now that the public is doing the wrong thing and it's why there has been a spike. Shaming people. Today is the second time that Mayor Kenney goes into quarantine and Governor Wolf tests positive. Proof that masks don't work as much as they claim and killing businesses is not the solution. I'm tired of the fake science that is posted here and everywhere

 

[RU848789]

Any thoughts on Ivermectin. That’s Martensen’s new big thing

It's being pushed hard by a group of doctors including the ones who wrote the EVMS protocol. One of them testified in the senate a day or two ago, you can find that on youtube (Pierre Kory is his name).

I've looked at some of the studies and they look impressive. Not sure what to make of it yet but if I were to get covid I'd ask my doctor to prescribe it.

It looks better than something like HCQ. It’s actually shown some benefit in vitro and in animal studies, but I still think it’s a long shot that this actually works. Def worth the broader RCTs though.

Have posted a few times on ivermectin, as I have some history working on that project at Merck 30+ years ago; the post below summarizes several other posts and includes a link to a Derek Lowe blog article on it (he's quite skeptical, as am I, given that it's an anti-parasitic that does show some antiviral activity in vitro - like HCQ).

As per the article below and others, some experts think the jury is still out, given the mixed performance in various clinical trials. As far as I know there hasn't been a large scale randomized controlled trial on ivermectin, either for prophylaxis/treatment of mild cases or for more seriously ill hospitalized patients.

I'd be reluctant to recommend it without that kind of data, but would have zero objection if someone would run one (like the Recovery or Solidarity trials that were run earlier this year). I'd be much more inclined to ask for Regeneron's antibody cocktail, which showed impressive results for mild/moderately ill patients in and RCT, although there's not enough for everyone yet (nowhere near enough).

https://www.afr.com/policy/health-a...le-getting-sick-from-covid-19-20201209-p56m0i

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...es-interventions-and-more.198855/post-4686992

 

[cohwx]

I'd be much more inclined to ask for Regeneron's antibody cocktail, which showed impressive results for mild/moderately ill patients in and RCT, although there's not enough for everyone yet (nowhere near enough).

Here's the problem with this (I've underlined the key section):

Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued an emergency use authorization (EUA) for casirivimab and imdevimab to be administered together for the treatment of mild to moderate COVID-19 in adults and pediatric patients (12 years of age or older weighing at least 40 kilograms [about 88 pounds]) with positive results of direct SARS-CoV-2 viral testing and who are at high risk for progressing to severe COVID-19. This includes those who are 65 years of age or older or who have certain chronic medical conditions.

Chances are you and I could ask all day and we'd be turned down because we're not at high risk. Maybe it'll become less restrictive with time.