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OT: Craps

PhilaPhans

Best Poster Ever!
Apr 23, 2005
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Gibbstown, NJ
So since I saw it mentioned in another thread, I figure I'd start a thread on it.

1.) Who plays?
2.) What's your strategy? (I don't care about how much money you bet, just where you generally put your money on the table.)

It's the only game I'll play in the casino, for what it's worth. Even if I had no money, I could stand there and NOT bet and watch the game for hours.
 
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1. I play craps every morning at 8am.
2. My strategy is to eat a bowl of oatmeal every morning, it allows me to play craps regularly.
 
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Thats all i play when i go to casinos now.. I play the pass line and usually buy a few numbers. If the buttons on 8 ill put some money on hard 8.. Every once in a while ill bet the field if someone's having a hot roll even though its a sucker bet and ill throw some money on yo randomly.. I don't really have a strategy but I've won probably 80% of the times I've played.. Definitely the most fun table game in the casino in my opinion.
 
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Only thing I play too. I bet don't pass, and lay odds if the point is set at 4 or 10. If I get up 50%, I walk away from the table and I'm done for the night. I'm also a big believer in table selection. I'll spend some time walking around first looking for the most miserable looking bunch of pass bettors and start betting don't pass at that table. Figure if they're mushed already, it's a good place to start...
 
pass, double odds. if come out is 4/10 5/9 I play the come line, double odds on that....also play $1 ace deuce on come out roll/come bets
 
Only play craps. Pass line, then come line to get an additional 3 numbers. If there is a hot roller I usually win thousands betting only 15 backing up with double odds.
 
I don't know the terminology, but my buddy showed me how (the only way, he says, to play at a casino, unless you are a sharp poker player, and can find an honest game....more on that later).
Without correct terminology:
Someone just rolled a 7, all chips are cleared, all new bets down.
Whatever the shooter throws (except 7), you make a bet that particular number will be thrown before a 7 (taking full odds, otherwise it's not worth the play).
You do this for the next two numbers thrown, hoping there is a run of the numbers you have (with full odds) before a 7 is thrown.

My buddy is a sharp poker player, was in Vegas, asked a pit boss about any higher stakes poker games (he likes high/low, played often in AC years ago, small games, tried to pick up a bit and get out - he's a stone, throws his cards back most of the time). Pit boss told him there weren't any legit ones, the higher tables would be made up of guys working together to take is money, split it up later, many average players want to play a higher $ game while in Vegas, these guys work together, two pose as bad players to get the outsider to loosen up and play carefree. Too bad. He has since told me he enjoys going to Philadelphia Park since they remodeled it.
 
pass line, back that up with odds, 6 and 8 and sometimes hard 4 or 10. Then win or lose on to the Race Room at Borgata, the only place we go, and the last place in AC that still has simulcast. I don't understand why Harrah's and all the others gave it up. The room is packed any day of the week. My wife and I have a deal,she plays the roulette video machine and I play craps an hour or so each,then we meet at the race room, always seem to get a chair in front of a monitor, even if it has a reservation name in front of it. We've never been moved by the person coming, and spend the rest of the night there having a blast. No waiting for drinks, get a drink ticket with each bet, because in there without one ,you pay full price. This way you show those drink tickets and just tip like anywhere else in the casino.
 
Pass line, 5x odds, inside numbers, press one unit each time number is made.

Always bet the saintly old men when they roll.

My theory on taking odd is it is they only true odds in the casino so take advantage.

Occasionally I mix it up and play don't pass but it's not as fun.

Oh and any time 4,6,8, or 10 is the point, I bet two-way hard numbers to get the dealers in the game.
 
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So since I saw it mentioned in another thread, I figure I'd start a thread on it.

1.) Who plays?
2.) What's your strategy? (I don't care about how much money you bet, just where you generally put your money on the table.)

It's the only game I'll play in the casino, for what it's worth. Even if I had no money, I could stand there and NOT bet and watch the game for hours.
Opened the Golden Nugget in AC in 1980. Stayed on that property for 30 years. When I left it was Hilton and then the Atlantic club. Worked as a dealer for 3 yrs and a supervisor for 27 yrs. 90 % of the time in the dice pits
 
Opened the Golden Nugget in AC in 1980. Stayed on that property for 30 years. When I left it was Hilton and then the Atlantic club. Worked as a dealer for 3 yrs and a supervisor for 27 yrs. 90 % of the time in the dice pits

Did you know Sab Carone?
 
I have no good strategy. But recently I've been playing
$1 Fire bet
$1 All Tall
$1 All Small
$2 Any Seven
on the come out --- lot's of fun.
 
Only play craps. Pass line, then come line to get an additional 3 numbers. If there is a hot roller I usually win thousands betting only 15 backing up with double odds.

This. I don't limit myself to 3 numbers from the come line and put odds on everything. Best odds in the casino for a gambler. Need to be able to ride through rough times though.
 
Did you know Sab Carone?
I never met Sab. He was well above my pay grade. But several friends who did know him and worked with him said he was a good man who died way too soon. Former FBI man, I believe , was hand picked by Steve Wynn to be his head of surveillance and security. You are the second person to ever ask if I knew Sab. The first was a liquor wholesale rep my dad knew . This guy grew up with Sab and knew him. One day he came into my dad's liquor store and when he found out I worked at the Nugget he asked me if I knew him. How did you know him.
 
I don't know the terminology, but my buddy showed me how (the only way, he says, to play at a casino, unless you are a sharp poker player, and can find an honest game....more on that later).
Without correct terminology:
Someone just rolled a 7, all chips are cleared, all new bets down.
Whatever the shooter throws (except 7), you make a bet that particular number will be thrown before a 7 (taking full odds, otherwise it's not worth the play).
You do this for the next two numbers thrown, hoping there is a run of the numbers you have (with full odds) before a 7 is thrown.

My buddy is a sharp poker player, was in Vegas, asked a pit boss about any higher stakes poker games (he likes high/low, played often in AC years ago, small games, tried to pick up a bit and get out - he's a stone, throws his cards back most of the time). Pit boss told him there weren't any legit ones, the higher tables would be made up of guys working together to take is money, split it up later, many average players want to play a higher $ game while in Vegas, these guys work together, two pose as bad players to get the outsider to loosen up and play carefree. Too bad. He has since told me he enjoys going to Philadelphia Park since they remodeled it.

The only casino games one can win at, in the long run, are blackjack, via counting cards, and poker, if you're good at it, which is why that's all I play in a casino, lol. All the table games have a built in mathematical advantage for the house, as I think almost everyone knows. But blackjack odds can be slightly turned in one's favor by counting cards. The system from the book/film "21" is simple and works - but without a partner, you can't do more than win a bit more than you lose, because when the deck is "hot" (rich in remaining face cards/aces), you need a 2nd person to come along and make huge bets to profit - if you change your betting a lot, on your own, mid-deck, they'll know you're counting and ask you to leave (or worse, lol).

Poker can be quite profitable, if you know the game well (the math and at least something about pattern recognition/psychology) and also know your limitations. It's not that hard to consistently beat the "rake" (the amount the house takes per hand), since there are, fortunately, a lot of bad poker players. I play about once a month, mostly at PARX (way close than AC for me), and I probably win (more than the rake) about 2/3 of the time, which translates into winning about a couple of thousand a year. Part of that is knowing my limitations: I'm comfortable playing up to $10-$20 table stakes games (hold-em or Omaha) or no-limit hold-em up to maybe $2-$5 levels, since the players aren't usually as good at the low/mid-stakes games and I won't usually get hurt too badly if I have a tough night.

At any decent sized poker room, for most of these games, there are enough tables playing the same game that it's much harder for a group to collude together, since people are assigned to tables in order of arrival - I've also rarely seen a table that doesn't turn over significantly during any appreciable time (like 3-4 hours or more). However, I've heard/read plenty of stories of the kind of collusion you mentioned at higher stakes games, where there may only be 1 table playing at those stakes, making it a lot easier for a team to collude together - another reason I don't play real high stakes.

At least the games aren't fixed in the casino, like they used to be on-line, where it was simple to cheat, by playing two players in one game from different IP addresses or by having two players at one table simply be on the phone and colluding. I'm certain this happened to me on line many years ago, right before on-line poker was banned in the US. I had been playing a lot of on-line poker (several hours per day) and was up about $9000. I cashed out about $2000, since I wanted to ensure some profit and then one night, I went a little nuts, going up in stakes from my usual $10-20 games to $40-$80 Omaha hi/lo and I proceeded to lose my remaining $7000 in about 3 hours. It was like a slow-motion train wreck that I simply couldn't stop. I kept getting pinched between guys who I'm sure were colluding, betting pots up to make bigger wins, plus I even think that game might've been rigged, since I twice lost monster full houses to quads and that just doesn't happen twice in 3 hours (a year later reports came out of fixed games). I quit playing on line after that and then the banning made that moot.
 
So you lose $7000 at online poker over 3 hours in an $80 game & it's because the house was rigged?

That's the line you're going with?
 
So you lose $7000 at online poker over 3 hours in an $80 game & it's because the house was rigged?

That's the line you're going with?

The collusion part I'm nearly certain about, but can't "prove" it - it's one of those things where you know it's probably going on and you should just quit and you don't for some reason - I really don't know why. The game being "rigged" is sheer speculation that I only thought about later after seeing a 60 Minutes piece detailing how the site had been rigging the high stakes games (and this was the highest stakes Omaha game that one could find) during the timeframe when I was playing. Don't know if it really happened, but losing the highest possible full house to quads twice in 3 hours is a near impossibility, probability wise. I would typically see that happen once every month or so of playing hours per day. Not that losing $7000 in 3 hours of 40-80 isn't possible without any shenanigans, but it's an outlier of a loss rate (especially since I play higher stakes games more conservatively).
 
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So since I saw it mentioned in another thread, I figure I'd start a thread on it.

1.) Who plays?
2.) What's your strategy? (I don't care about how much money you bet, just where you generally put your money on the table.)

It's the only game I'll play in the casino, for what it's worth. Even if I had no money, I could stand there and NOT bet and watch the game for hours.
I suggest you use DEPENDS,,,and find the best pizza thread here and look for the classic "load bearing walls" thread....keep this FB site classy,,,,,,parents and potential players want you to
 
I never met Sab. He was well above my pay grade. But several friends who did know him and worked with him said he was a good man who died way too soon. Former FBI man, I believe , was hand picked by Steve Wynn to be his head of surveillance and security. You are the second person to ever ask if I knew Sab. The first was a liquor wholesale rep my dad knew . This guy grew up with Sab and knew him. One day he came into my dad's liquor store and when he found out I worked at the Nugget he asked me if I knew him. How did you know him.

He was family. And a terrific guy.
 
He was family. And a terrific guy.
It was so long ago I am trying to remember the guy's name who grew up with Sab. Al Marchio I think is his name . He was from Plainfield or North Plainfield, can't remember which. I grew up in So. Plainfield.
 
The only casino games one can win at, in the long run, are blackjack, via counting cards, and poker, if you're good at it, which is why that's all I play in a casino, lol. All the table games have a built in mathematical advantage for the house, as I think almost everyone knows. But blackjack odds can be slightly turned in one's favor by counting cards. The system from the book/film "21" is simple and works - but without a partner, you can't do more than win a bit more than you lose, because when the deck is "hot" (rich in remaining face cards/aces), you need a 2nd person to come along and make huge bets to profit - if you change your betting a lot, on your own, mid-deck, they'll know you're counting and ask you to leave (or worse, lol).

Poker can be quite profitable, if you know the game well (the math and at least something about pattern recognition/psychology) and also know your limitations. It's not that hard to consistently beat the "rake" (the amount the house takes per hand), since there are, fortunately, a lot of bad poker players. I play about once a month, mostly at PARX (way close than AC for me), and I probably win (more than the rake) about 2/3 of the time, which translates into winning about a couple of thousand a year. Part of that is knowing my limitations: I'm comfortable playing up to $10-$20 table stakes games (hold-em or Omaha) or no-limit hold-em up to maybe $2-$5 levels, since the players aren't usually as good at the low/mid-stakes games and I won't usually get hurt too badly if I have a tough night.

At any decent sized poker room, for most of these games, there are enough tables playing the same game that it's much harder for a group to collude together, since people are assigned to tables in order of arrival - I've also rarely seen a table that doesn't turn over significantly during any appreciable time (like 3-4 hours or more). However, I've heard/read plenty of stories of the kind of collusion you mentioned at higher stakes games, where there may only be 1 table playing at those stakes, making it a lot easier for a team to collude together - another reason I don't play real high stakes.

At least the games aren't fixed in the casino, like they used to be on-line, where it was simple to cheat, by playing two players in one game from different IP addresses or by having two players at one table simply be on the phone and colluding. I'm certain this happened to me on line many years ago, right before on-line poker was banned in the US. I had been playing a lot of on-line poker (several hours per day) and was up about $9000. I cashed out about $2000, since I wanted to ensure some profit and then one night, I went a little nuts, going up in stakes from my usual $10-20 games to $40-$80 Omaha hi/lo and I proceeded to lose my remaining $7000 in about 3 hours. It was like a slow-motion train wreck that I simply couldn't stop. I kept getting pinched between guys who I'm sure were colluding, betting pots up to make bigger wins, plus I even think that game might've been rigged, since I twice lost monster full houses to quads and that just doesn't happen twice in 3 hours (a year later reports came out of fixed games). I quit playing on line after that and then the banning made that moot.
Wow, numbers, your good with weather, but not "numbers",lol. $7000 in 3 hours online? really? To me and my wife, playing online has no appeal,being in the casino and the atmosphere that comes with it, is half the fun.
 
ruready: if you have multiple games going on, it's not too hard to lose 7K in 3hrs. Hard to break minimum wage unless you leverage your time in multiple games or play high stakes.
 
ruready: if you have multiple games going on, it's not too hard to lose 7K in 3hrs. Hard to break minimum wage unless you leverage your time in multiple games or play high stakes.
Mike I'm sure your right, but online has no appeal to me, and I really don't bet to make a living, just play to at worst, burn throw away money. Never use the cash machines, we only go with a couple hundred and if we lose, don't feel bad, and caulk it up to a night of food, drink and entertainment.
 
That's a familiar name. Al lived in NP for nearly all his life, but was born in Plainfield. Knew his daughter. Here is his obit: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/mycentraljersey/obituary.aspx?n=albert-n-marchio&pid=153506452
That's got to be him. His obituary mentions his career as a liquor salesman. He was a friend of my dad's and they also did business so I got to know him before I went to AC and when I would come up on weekends or occasionally during the week, we would run into each other at my dad's tavern / liquor store. Small world.
 
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I play a $5 yo on every come out roll.
Play $10 on the pass line and double odds.
Play inside numbers 5,6,8,9.
If point is 4,6,8,10, I play the hard way.
 
Mike I'm sure your right, but online has no appeal to me, and I really don't bet to make a living, just play to at worst, burn throw away money. Never use the cash machines, we only go with a couple hundred and if we lose, don't feel bad, and caulk it up to a night of food, drink and entertainment.
You and I are similar.

I've never gambled online since I only gamble socially which is why craps suits me perfectly.

I only mentioned online multiple windows to explain how a person could possibly lose that kind of money that quickly -- never did it myself.
 
That's got to be him. His obituary mentions his career as a liquor salesman. He was a friend of my dad's and they also did business so I got to know him before I went to AC and when I would come up on weekends or occasionally during the week, we would run into each other at my dad's tavern / liquor store. Small world.
Sab had some fantastic stories and insights. He was a SA in the NYC Field Office and was involved in the Julius and Ethel Rosenberg investigation. I remember, as a new grad from RU, I was readying to relocate from NJ when I got a phone call at my parent's home the day before I was leaving; my Mom hands me the phone. "It's George Wackenhut," she says. "He wants to speak with you." I had no idea who he was. We chit chat for a bit and he proceeds to offer me a "security" job, this connection as a result of him serving with Sab in the Bureau. I politely and graciously declined as I had another commitment. He gave me his number and said if I ever changed my mind, just give him a call. Anyway, I called Sab to explain things, and I even apologized, now knowing a bit more about this Wackenhut fellow. Sab just took it on himself to open a door for me. That's the kind of guy he was.
 
Sab had some fantastic stories and insights. He was a SA in the NYC Field Office and was involved in the Julius and Ethel Rosenberg investigation. I remember, as a new grad from RU, I was readying to relocate from NJ when I got a phone call at my parent's home the day before I was leaving; my Mom hands me the phone. "It's George Wackenhut," she says. "He wants to speak with you." I had no idea who he was. We chit chat for a bit and he proceeds to offer me a "security" job, this connection as a result of him serving with Sab in the Bureau. I politely and graciously declined as I had another commitment. He gave me his number and said if I ever changed my mind, just give him a call. Anyway, I called Sab to explain things, and I even apologized, now knowing a bit more about this Wackenhut fellow. Sab just took it on himself to open a door for me. That's the kind of guy he was.
That is a great story. I remember when Sab passed , a group of 5 or 6 guys who were senior management in the casino end of the business , all went together to Sab's funeral. These were all Vegas guys who were brought out to run the casino and these people I became friends with over the years. They all had a great deal of respect for Sab. He was special.
 
Wow, numbers, your good with weather, but not "numbers",lol. $7000 in 3 hours online? really? To me and my wife, playing online has no appeal,being in the casino and the atmosphere that comes with it, is half the fun.
Hey, it was $40-80 Omaha, so in the worst case, one could lose $960 in one hand - and that was close to what happened in the two hands I had the best full house and lost to quads. But yeah, losing $7000 in 3 hours was my worst poker experience - the only saving grace was I had cashed out $2000 in profit a few days earlier from my original very small investment.

I also much prefer the casino over on-line for the same reasons you do, but back then, there was no PARX and the 3 hour round trip to AC meant I felt like playing for at least 8-12 hours (and it was often a lot more than that) to justify the travel time, which my wife wasn't crazy about (she doesn't gamble). With PARX, it's only a 1.5 hour round trip, so going for 4-5 hours of poker is only a ~6 hour time investment, which means if I leave at 6 pm, I'm home by midnight, which goes over much better than 5 am. Haven't really played on-line in years and I definitely prefer the casino, but on-line was better than watching TV or posting here, lol (actually, I used to do all 3).
 
Like a Rutgers football home game as long as you treat it as an entertainment expense and don't expect to win you'll be all right.

The pass/don't pass lines have the lowest house edges in the game so always bet those. The don't pass line is a slightly better bet for you, but when you do that you are betting against the shooter and the game isn't as fun.

As stated above always take the max odds on the pass line. If you only do those things, then you'll play for a while and if you get lucky win something. If you want some more excitement bet 6&8 they are the most likely numbers to come out other then 7.

As for online poker, I play alot and have made money back in the PokerStars and FullTilt days and continue to play a lot on the current NJ only facing sites. There are still enough bad players that you can make money on the NJ only sites, but it is harder then back in the day. Regarding the collusion and rigged issue, there are absolutely ways to prove it. If you think you had been colluded against, you should have contacted support for the site, they can review hand histories and see if the people you are playing against have a history of sitting together. Pokerstars has returned money to players in the past if they found they were victims of collusion. Also, for every hand you play you should have a hand history. The Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet scandals were caught by players mining their hand histories and finding the super users playing in a way that was unsustainable for a winning player.
 
Learned how to play craps in Wendover, NV, the first town over the border coming from Salt Lake City. I'd asked someone what was fun to do in SLC and they told me, "Drive to Nevada." I did. I played $2 craps and played unitl morning. Some rules I play by: Triple the back bet. Place 6 and 8. Everything else is a more than 2% advantage to the house (risk relative to return). Never press your bets. Never hedge. Never play the Don't Come unless you hate the shooter for some random reason. Double your regular bet when an old black man or old white woman in shooting. Don't tip until you're leaving the table. Never tip based on your winnings.
 
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