OT: Duke Lacrosse 30 for 30

[LC-88]

Nifong is a lowlife POS. All he wanted to do is make a name for himself. He didn't care about anyone's lives; "victim" or the lax team. I've met a few people from Durham that have crossed paths with him over the years, and not just in his DA role, all had the same assesment: self centered, narcisitic POS. Been down here more than twenty years, and luckily never had to deal with him. Definitely a polarizing event at the time.

 

[mdk01]

IHowever, if you think they planned a party with strippers and had no intention of anyone having sex, then you are being a bit naive. Sorry, you know I am right.

No, I don't know you're right, and I don't think you can make that assumption. 42 guys during dead campus on spring break get a keg because they can't go to a bar and somebody decides 2 strippers to the mix. And IIRC neither has prostitution rap on her record. Won't say 0% chance, but the odds are way, way below 50%, You're stating it's conclusively 100%.

 

[mdk01]

Innocent until proven guilty. That is always forgotten these days. Mob bully mentality tries to prevail.

Under the current DOJ guidance with respect to Title IX enforcement "innocent until proven guilty" is optional. Actually, it can get a university into trouble.

 

[Randal7]

Once I was in Montreal at a strip club and this slammin hot chick wanted to bang. I said no. Was hard though. Hard x 2.

 

[rutcor]

Never said anybody had sex with her. I said planning a party with strippers and underaged drinking leaves the Duke lacrosse team with some culbability. Explain why this is unreasonable.

Isn't this just the "she didn't deserve to be raped, but she shouldn't have been wearing that outfit, either" argument?

 

[miketd1]

Never said anybody had sex with her. I said planning a party with strippers and underaged drinking leaves the Duke lacrosse team with some culbability. Explain why this is unreasonable.

It depends on what you're suggesting they should be culpable for.

If it's for causing underage drinking and overall frat boy stupidity, then yes.

If it's for causing false charges, then no.

That's like suggesting that if you lose your wallet, you're somehow culpable for being a victim of identity theft. Was it a mistake? Sure. Should you have been more responsible? Certainly. Is it your fault someone wronged you? Absolutely not.

 

[RUinsane]

1. For those bringing up Sharpton, forget Limerick Nelson, the biggest laugh is he made his name national on the Tawana Brawley case where she completely manufactured an entire episode.
2. What I don't understand is how the other dancer is never mentioned anywhere. Don't you think her testimony in some capacity would be pertinent?

 

[El Curioso Impertinente]

Miscarriages of Justice are common, especially along the lines of prosecutorial misconduct. The Kids at Duke received a level of apology and institutional regret that I've never seen in any type of case with similar circumstances.

Underage Drinking, Strippers, etc. these offenses while hardly criminal, are evidence of some culpability. There are tons of cases where totally innocent people who haven't committed any crime or transgressions get the short end of the stick.

The Prosecutor in the Central Park 5 Case received multiple promotions, and Trump is running for President. Additionally, Making of a Murderer is even worse than the Duke Case.

 

[mdk01]

Miscarriages of Justice are common, especially along the lines of prosecutorial misconduct. The Kids at Duke received a level of apology and institutional regret that I've never seen in any type of case with similar circumstances.

The institutional regret (and cash) came from Duke, NOT the City of Durham nor the prosecutor nor the prosecutor's office. You're comparing apples and oranges.

 

[RU848789]

Interesting that some people seem to support the idea of big lawsuit awards in this case (which were not given), but if I wonder if the same people supported Erin Andrews getting a large lawsuit award in the stalker case, as quite a few protested that one. Personally, I have zero issue with moderately large awards in any cases, where it seems pretty clear people have been wronged by indifferent/culpable entities, whether public as in this case or private as in the Andrews case. Large awards can help deter future such actions, although I do think $50MM awards (or even $10MM) to individuals are too high - I wish there were a way to redirect most awards like that to some group/charity that could make better use of the money.

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

The mainstream media today has liberal & shameful bias.

Just look at the Star Ledger/nj.com as one example.

It used to be a fair & balanced news agency with honest journalists.

Now its a platform for radical leftist hate groups and the venom spewed by the demented Tom Moron is unreadable.

Not only is the Star Liar biased but they selectively remove conservative posts that do not violate their terms of service. In other words they remove posts solely for being of the conservative side of an argument. I do not post on their site anymore because of it.

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

So anybody who has ever attended a bachelor party where strippers were hired is culpable if false allegations of rape are made against them?

If you have attended a bachelor party and had dancers/strippers there you are a mysoginist or so says the left.

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

I have not seen the duke story on 30 for 30 but I will say that there is a very real bias in the courthouse if you are a man. Divorce,alleged rape or sexual assault, Domestic Violence, just be aware you walk into the courthouse at a distinct disadvantage as the system is set up to see males as the perpetrator/penetrator.
I have gone through a 10 year divorce in NJ and have literally lost everything. Most of the time it is not even your ex you are fighting. Usually it is the state that you are fighting just to follow the laws as they are written.
What happened with the Duke Lax Team while tragic does have a silver lining. It opened the eyes of many men to the biases that exist in our judicial system. This is starting to bring about change in our Judicial system and other government programs. We still are dealing with an epidemic of false rape allegations on college campuses but many schools are realizing the consequences of not giving the accused Due Process. We have to keep the pressure on our legislators for change so we do not slip back to the days of being presumed guilty before a trial.

 

[mdk01]

Interesting that some people seem to support the idea of big lawsuit awards in this case (which were not given), but if I wonder if the same people supported Erin Andrews getting a large lawsuit award in the stalker case, as quite a few protested that one. Personally, I have zero issue with moderately large awards in any cases, where it seems pretty clear people have been wronged by indifferent/culpable entities, whether public as in this case or private as in the Andrews case. Large awards can help deter future such actions, although I do think $50MM awards (or even $10MM) to individuals are too high - I wish there were a way to redirect most awards like that to some group/charity that could make better use of the money.

The 3 players got significant cash settlements from Duke, although I believe that all 3 combined were less than what the jury gave Erin Andrews. And Erin Andrews, as wronged as she was, didn't get death threats. Durham settled for a $50,000 donation to the Innocence Project, so some of what the players deserved went to a charitable cause.

 

[RUforJERSEY]

Not only is the Star Liar biased but they selectively remove conservative posts that do not violate their terms of service. In other words they remove posts solely for being of the conservative side of an argument. I do not post on their site anymore because of it.

I hope you're not referring to the comments underneath the articles on their site. Many of those make David Duke look like Bernie Sanders in comparison.

 

[JPhoboken]

Nope, I read your posts and you are "indirectly" saying that exactly. Stop blaming the victims. They did nothing wrong.

You obviously can't read. Feel sorry for you. You are putting words in my mouth. Feel free to put me on ignore, you obviously want to believe what you want to believe, no matter what I say, so save yourself the trouble of reading what I write.

Isn't this just the "she didn't deserve to be raped, but she shouldn't have been wearing that outfit, either" argument?

All I am saying is when you plan an underaged drinking party with strippers, you are putting yourself in a positions where shit could hit the fan, and the Duke Lacrosse team doesn't have zero culpability for things going wrong, they did plan this party.

I am not saying, in any way, that false rape allegations were deserved or right. I agree with everybody else how wrong this was.

THe malicious prosecution was outrageous. THe DA should have been charged, and should be doing time right now.

 

[GSGS]

The other day there was a thread on the BWI board where Pedd Staters were ripping ESPN for not yet having a 30 for 30 episode on their situation that completely absolves JoePa and their top administrators of guilt in the Sandusky scandal.

 

[Caliknight]

All I am saying is when you plan an underaged drinking party with strippers, you are putting yourself in a positions where shit could hit the fan, and the Duke Lacrosse team doesn't have zero culpability for things going wrong, they did plan this party
.

Outside of underage drinking (shoot them!) they didn't do anything wrong, no matter how many ways you try to say they did

 

[rutcor]

All I am saying is when you plan an underaged drinking party with strippers, you are putting yourself in a positions where shit could hit the fan, and the Duke Lacrosse team doesn't have zero culpability for things going wrong, they did plan this party.

So yeah, the "she didn't deserve to be raped, but she shouldn't have been wearing that outfit, either" argument.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

1. For those bringing up Sharpton, forget Limerick Nelson, the biggest laugh is he made his name national on the Tawana Brawley case where she completely manufactured an entire episode.

During the Twana Brawley thing.. a guy I worked with said he was in high school with Sharpton and sat right in front of him.. said he was exactly the same, even in HS. That is.. an operator.. pushing buttons.

 

[topdecktiger]

All I am saying is when you plan an underaged drinking party with strippers, you are putting yourself in a positions where shit could hit the fan, and the Duke Lacrosse team doesn't have zero culpability for things going wrong, they did plan this party.

Yes, they do have zero culpability, because nothing happened. That's the key thing you are missing here. Nothing went wrong. The girl made up a story after the fact. Nothing happened to her. They would have culpability if something actually did happen. For example, let's say one of the guys was so drunk he tripped and broke the girl's leg. Well, he didn't mean to do it, but he would still be "culpable" because he put himself in that situation by being intoxicated. However, that's an instance where something actually happened. Nothing "went wrong" at the party. Nobody assaulted the girl. Nobody raped her. You can't be culpable for something that never happened.

 

[saran]

The Prosecutor in the Central Park 5 Case received multiple promotions, and Trump is running for President. Additionally, Making of a Murderer is even worse than the Duke Case.

After I saw the documentary about the CP5 I just stopped reading about all the legal/crime cases in papers

 

[biazza38]

This 30for30 was unbelievable.
Nifong is a crook. Even after the DNA test, he still wanted to charge three guys. Just any three guys. So he had her pick out three guys out of a line up that only had Duke lacrosse players. I can't even imagine how shocked these guys were when they were charged. And he did all of this for a freaking campaign. That's mind blowing. What a POS. The scary thing is, there are a lot of people out there just like Nifong.
The thing that struck me was how cocky and arrogant Nifong was. He knew the DNA tests he did with the private lab proved them innocent, but was he banking on the lawyers not doing the work to understand what the DNA tests were showing. He gave them 2,500 pages of documents. After the lawyers went through it was proven that there was more DNA in the specimens from the guy working in the lab than all of the Duke lacrosse players combined.
Lastly, ESPN did a piece on Pressler awhile back. he sad he doesn't want to leave Bryant. No school wanted him after the Duke situation and Bryant was the only one that was willing to take a chance. He said he has received numerous offers from schools. The thought of leaving has never crossed him mind.
By the way, the administrators at Yale should watch this to see how screwed they are about to be. Something tells me expelling a student without any evidence, without an investigation, or criminal report is not going to end well for them.

 

[irishflu92]

The institutional regret (and cash) came from Duke, NOT the City of Durham nor the prosecutor nor the prosecutor's office. You're comparing apples and oranges.

And, not from the media, which piled on the Duke kids and effectively declared them guilty.

 

[RUBubba]

Not only the lack of DNA evidence, but the cell phone, ATM video, and dorm room entrance log evidence showing the kids were no where near the scene...

Unreal.

I really would have liked to hear from the other stripper ... er... sorry... Exotic dancer as well. They made no mention of her at all.

I also appreciate Jay Bilas a little more for speaking out at the time against his alma mater, and trying to do it publicly.

 

[RUinsane]

This 30for30 was unbelievable.
Nifong is a crook. Even after the DNA test, he still wanted to charge three guys. Just any three guys. So he had her pick out three guys out of a line up that only had Duke lacrosse players. I can't even imagine how shocked these guys were when they were charged. And he did all of this for a freaking campaign. That's mind blowing. What a POS. The scary thing is, there are a lot of people out there just like Nifong.
The thing that struck me was how cocky and arrogant Nifong was. He knew the DNA tests he did with the private lab proved them innocent, but was he banking on the lawyers not doing the work to understand what the DNA tests were showing. He gave them 2,500 pages of documents. After the lawyers went through it was proven that there was more DNA in the specimens from the guy working in the lab than all of the Duke lacrosse players combined.
Lastly, ESPN did a piece on Pressler awhile back. he sad he doesn't want to leave Bryant. No school wanted him after the Duke situation and Bryant was the only one that was willing to take a chance. He said he has received numerous offers from schools. The thought of leaving has never crossed him mind.
By the way, the administrators at Yale should watch this to see how screwed they are about to be. Something tells me expelling a student without any evidence, without an investigation, or criminal report is not going to end well for them.

For a school with a 25.57 billion dollar endowment I doubt that are that concerned. A 20 million dollar settlement is only 0.07822% of the endowment.

 

[mdk01]

For a school with a 25.57 billion dollar endowment I doubt that are that concerned. A 20 million dollar settlement is only 0.07822% of the endowment.

I believe it's closer to $7 billion. The only schools I'm aware of with endowments over $25 billion are Harvard and Yale. Even Stanford "only" has approx. $22.5 .

 

[biazza38]

For a school with a 25.57 billion dollar endowment I doubt that are that concerned. A 20 million dollar settlement is only 0.07822% of the endowment.

It's still extremely embarrassing. On top of that, they damaged someones reputation without an investigation. That's screwed up.

 

[RUinsane]

I believe it's closer to $7 billion. The only schools I'm aware of with endowments over $25 billion are Harvard and Yale. Even Stanford "only" has approx. $22.5 .

You are incorrect

 

[mdk01]

You are incorrect

Maybe about Yale. Not about Duke.

 

[Rutgers1]

Maybe about Yale. Not about Duke.

Jesus, the guy is off by a little bit on Yale ($23.9 bill vs $25 bill) and he is incorrect? Meanwhile you are off by $18 billion and you try to come off as being right. You must be a Trump supporter.

 

[mal359]

The mainstream media today has liberal & shameful bias.

Just look at the Star Ledger/nj.com as one example.

It used to be a fair & balanced news agency with honest journalists.

Now its a platform for radical leftist hate groups and the venom spewed by the demented Tom Moron is unreadable.

Maybe the conservatives in this state should stop giving the Ledger so much to work with.

 

[LC-88]

And, not from the media, which piled on the Duke kids and effectively declared them guilty.

and, as expected, did next to nothing to clear their names after the facts came out. Typical media pirhannas.

 

[mdk01]

Maybe the conservatives in this state should stop giving the Ledger so much to work with.

After all, the liberals give them more than enough.

 

[RUhasarrived]

The story finally fell apart as CRYSTAL BLEW PERSUASION.