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OT: Electric vehicles

So you buy a Plug-in-hybrid (PHEV) where you have both a battery that handles 80-90% of your driving and a full size (11 gal) gasoline tank you can use on longer trips.
Best of both worlds for me right now.
1224 miles driven, 110 on gas. No gas bought since vehicle purchased on June 29th.
 
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BROTHERSKINNY said:
The part which says we are free to pursue "happiness" without interference from our government. Many people enjoy driving ICE vehicles and the government shall not infringe.


remember our constitution does not limit the power of the individual but limits the power of our government to infringe upon our rights!
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Like smoking pot if I wanted
 
mildone said:
Making excuses or prophetic caution? I think they’re likely being wise. But I’m glad I am not betting on it.

www.motortrend.com

Toyota CEO Doubles Down on Cautious EV Rollout

Akio Toyoda says Toyota’s plan of action is a more realistic global approach given current supply chain and infrastructure conditions.
www.motortrend.com www.motortrend.com
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So, they're sticking with hydrogen fuel. They will "fight the perception hydrogen is dangerous and can explode. "

Ummm, hydrogen is very dangerous and can explode." Good luck trying to convince otherwise.
 
My wife will be looking at the PHEV Hyundai Tucson.

We are cautious and slow buyers so it could be quite the bit down the road before we actually buy
 
LBusDoor90 said:
There’s no need to when I wake up every morning to a “full tank,” parked in my own garage. If I do drive a full 295 miles all at once (my current full charge range), it has been easy to make sure I end up near a Supercharger, the same time I need to pee and/or eat. (Yes, I’m aware not all EV owners have the options at home and on the road that I do.)
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how long does a supercharger take to "fill her up" ?
 
I can understand hybrids--I think these are great--but gasoline is involved and the dictates by some states say all electric--that's way too early even if 2035, I also understand that those that bought an ev have to think they're great no matter what but for now give me a gas station every couple of miles. i don't need to do math/analysis to check my battery level and when I get home I'd rather just get inside and not fiddle with plug ins.
 
ru66 said:
sorry 15 to 40 minutes not fast enough for me
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I swear, no one ever really wants to read/piece together all that we, actual EV owners, type here, which is clearly intentional. I’ll try again with details really spelled out…
• At the point I might need to charge, I need to pee and eat (and my gf or 10 yo daughter definitely wanted to stop long before that)
• This means a minimum of 30 min. of time is needed, just like when I had an ICE car
• During that 30 min., supercharging can add 80% charge, more than enough to get me home or to a destination where I can charge again overnight
• All those times I’m sleeping while my car “fills up” to handle my daily commuting (which accounts for 99.9% of my charging), I am erasing hundreds of 5-10 min stops you MUST make
• So in the final analysis, who is spending the most time actually present, waiting, at the pump/outlet?
 
LBusDoor90 said:
I swear, no one ever really wants to read/piece together all that we, actual EV owners, type here, which is clearly intentional. I’ll try again with details really spelled out…
• At the point I might need to charge, I need to pee and eat (and my gf or 10 yo daughter definitely wanted to stop long before that)
• This means a minimum of 30 min. of time is needed, just like when I had an ICE car
• During that 30 min., supercharging can add 80% charge, more than enough to get me home or to a destination where I can charge again overnight
• All those times I’m sleeping while my car “fills up” to handle my daily commuting (which accounts for 99.9% of my charging), I am erasing hundreds of 5-10 min stops you MUST make
• So in the final analysis, who is spending the most time actually present, waiting, at the pump/outlet?
Click to expand...
I am not anti ev but your analysis above is an excuse. At this time in there development an ev controls my convience more than I want to tolerate. Great for you but not me and many others. We all have choices, accept yours and mine.
 
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ru66 said:
I am not anti ev but your analysis above is an excuse. At this time in there development an ev controls my convience more than I want to tolerate. Great for you but not me and many others. We all have choices, accept yours and mine.
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If you've read any of my past posts, I've stated repeatedly EVs aren't for everyone. But this claim that we regularly have to sit and wait for charging to happen is completely bogus for many of us.
It's not an excuse, it's a reality that our cars fuel themselves by far most of the time while we sleep while that can NEVER be true for drivers of ICE cars. Please tell me what I have inaccurate in my "excuse."
 
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ru66 said:
I can understand hybrids--I think these are great--but gasoline is involved and the dictates by some states say all electric--that's way too early even if 2035, I also understand that those that bought an ev have to think they're great no matter what but for now give me a gas station every couple of miles. i don't need to do math/analysis to check my battery level and when I get home I'd rather just get inside and not fiddle with plug ins.
Click to expand...

You do realize that the states with 2035 electric mandates is for "new vehicles sold", right? The laws don't restrict the use of ICE cars.
 
ru66 said:
I am not anti ev but your analysis above is an excuse. At this time in there development an ev controls my convience more than I want to tolerate. Great for you but not me and many others. We all have choices, accept yours and mine.
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If your main concern is convenience, cumulatively, an EV owner with home charging spends less time waiting at charging stations than an ICE owner waiting at gas stations. EV owners will also spend less time and money on service, repairs, maintenance, and fuel/charging costs. People tolerate the inconveniences of ICE vehicles because they're second nature and we have a fear of the unknown.

If you have no home charging, or routinely go 250+ miles round trip, then yes, an ICE vehicle would be more convenient.
 
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ru66 said:
I am not anti ev but your analysis above is an excuse. At this time in there development an ev controls my convience more than I want to tolerate. Great for you but not me and many others. We all have choices, accept yours and mine.
Click to expand...

You have to admit it's kind of funny that you talk about excuses and yet one of the reasons you said you don't want an EV is because you don't want to be bothered having to plug it in at night when you get home......... something that takes like 20 seconds to do.
 
I think many people are what I call incrementalists so the leap from what they know to a completely different product is difficult for them.

The step to hybrid then EV is easier on them
 
Ty Webb said:
You have to admit it's kind of funny that you talk about excuses and yet one of the reasons you said you don't want an EV is because you don't want to be bothered having to plug it in at night when you get home......... something that takes like 20 seconds to do.
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Sorry but I do have excuses/reasons for not getting one yet and I stated it. The reply to my previous post was to a list of excuses of a poster and I don't care what your excuse is for being a ev zealot. As i said previously if you bought one of course you'll be a defender but no need to heap your zealousness on others. I'm off to the casino now and I'm happy my gas tank gets me the 300 miles there and back and don't need to worry about charging stations and all the nonesense of how fast or slow I'm going or weather conditions affecting my mileage.
 
LBusDoor90 said:
I swear, no one ever really wants to read/piece together all that we, actual EV owners, type here, which is clearly intentional. I’ll try again with details really spelled out…
• At the point I might need to charge, I need to pee and eat (and my gf or 10 yo daughter definitely wanted to stop long before that)
• This means a minimum of 30 min. of time is needed, just like when I had an ICE car
• During that 30 min., supercharging can add 80% charge, more than enough to get me home or to a destination where I can charge again overnight
• All those times I’m sleeping while my car “fills up” to handle my daily commuting (which accounts for 99.9% of my charging), I am erasing hundreds of 5-10 min stops you MUST make
• So in the final analysis, who is spending the most time actually present, waiting, at the pump/outlet?
Click to expand...
When talking about a car used for a daily commute or short trips, then range is entirely irrelevant. Nobody with access to home charging cares. It's only for longer road trips where range is an issue, or when one cannot charge at home.

Even when my 3 kids were young, our gas/pee stops were almost always 15 minutes or less on most road trip stops. Now and then, we'd hit a line at the pump, but the rest of the family would be off using the bathroom and/or grabbing a snack while I get gas. And the lines move fast because most cars don't take very long to fill up. So the stop might get extended to 20 minutes due to the line. Only very rarely would we stop any longer.

Some people travel and enjoy stopping and chilling out for a while. That was never us. We were very destination-focused.

The real problem today is that EV charging port quantity doesn't come close to matching gas pump numbers. And if public EV charging infrastructure doesn't improve at a pace matching that of EV adoption, then it will become more likely that there will be lines of EVs waiting for a charge. People like to argue that they don't need to fully charge, but that's like saying we don't have to fill up our gas tanks and for long road trips - neither comment makes any sense in the context of a long road trip.

There can be lines for gas pumps and for EV charging ports. The critical difference is how long it takes for those lines to move, and how long those lines get due to the relative numbers of "ports" versus the relative numbers of vehicles. There's no knowing what that math will be because we won't know, for sure, what the EV adoption rate versus the EV charging port build rates will wind up being.

Presumably, with time, this won't be so much of a problem. Enough EV charging ports will be available (one hopes). Then it's just about how long it takes to fully charge up.
 
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BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap said:
If you have no home charging, or routinely go 250+ miles round trip, then yes, an ICE vehicle would be more convenient.
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Exactly. Thing is, there are lots of people who have no home charging.

And there are plenty for whom an EV would primarily be used for long road trips. Whose around town driving is very limited. A hybrid seems to make more sense for them. Use all electric going to the food store. Use a combination w/great range for long road trips.
 
ru66 said:
Sorry but I do have excuses/reasons for not getting one yet and I stated it. The reply to my previous post was to a list of excuses of a poster and I don't care what your excuse is for being a ev zealot. As i said previously if you bought one of course you'll be a defender but no need to heap your zealousness on others. I'm off to the casino now and I'm happy my gas tank gets me the 300 miles there and back and don't need to worry about charging stations and all the nonesense of how fast or slow I'm going or weather conditions affecting my mileage.
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I am not an EV zealot. We have two ICE cars and will be replacing one in December with another ICE vehicle. But kudos for just making silly assumptions.

I just found it funny you brought up "excuses" and yet said one of the reasons you don't want an EV is that you have to plug it in at night. Something that takes a few seconds to do.
 
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tom1944 said:
I think many people are what I call incrementalists so the leap from what they know to a completely different product is difficult for them.

The step to hybrid then EV is easier on them
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I think it all depends on a prospective owners requirements for the new vehicle.

For example, I have no commute. I drive very little around town. Probably 95% of my driving is long range in remote areas with lots of hard accelerations and high speeds, or simply long road trips (at high-normal speeds). An EV makes no sense for any of my driving needs. A hybrid could work, especially for the long road trips.

Lots of people live where they have no access to at-home charging. Depending on their particular circumstances, and their driving needs, an EV could still make sense, but a hybrid might be a better option in many cases.

I think the term "range anxiety" is very misplaced in many cases. Some people might not be thinking things through. But for many people, the choice to avoid an EV (right now, at least) is just a rational assessment of requirements and constraints.
 
CERU00 said:
So, they're sticking with hydrogen fuel. They will "fight the perception hydrogen is dangerous and can explode. "

Ummm, hydrogen is very dangerous and can explode." Good luck trying to convince otherwise.
Click to expand...
Gas and batteries can be explosive, too. Most energy sources can be very dangerous. But we engineer the risks down to acceptable levels.

I can't say for sure, but I think Toyota might be thinking that hydrogen-derivative technologies used in the production of clean-burning fuels (that work in existing ICE cars but produce far less carbon emissions) are a viable future automotive energy strategy.

A bunch of automotive manufacturers are investing in the concept pretty heavily right now. None are at a point where they are saying it's viable as a consumer automotive energy source quite yet. That doesn't mean it won't become more viable in a couple decades. It will start getting pretty extreme field testing in use in motor racing starting next year, I believe.
 
ru66 said:
I can understand hybrids--I think these are great--but gasoline is involved and the dictates by some states say all electric--that's way too early even if 2035, I also understand that those that bought an ev have to think they're great no matter what but for now give me a gas station every couple of miles. i don't need to do math/analysis to check my battery level and when I get home I'd rather just get inside and not fiddle with plug ins.
Click to expand...
My battery level is on the dashboard and in my Ford Pass app. I could be in South America and check my battery level. It's good for 17 miles right now. Enough to get me through the day so I'll plug in my Level 1 charger when I'm done driving for the day. Get me to 80% charged and I'll be good for the next day.
Works for me. Not a nickel paid for gasoline since it was bought on June 29.
 
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Knight Shift said:
You do realize a gas station stop is usually about 10 minutes, and it can be a bit longer if they are busy.
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Yeah, but there are vastly more gas pumps than EV charging ports. There are also vastly more ICE cars competing for those gas pumps than EVs competing for charging ports. However, cars, especially hybrids, can typically go farther before needing refueling/recharging.

So the question really should be: how long will it take to get back on the road, including time spent waiting in line for a pump/charger, and time spent at the pump/charger.

At the moment, and for the short-term future, the potential to wait an uncomfortably long time seems more likely with an EV (at least along the interstate on long road trips) than an ICEV. Because of the long times it can take to fully charge for the next leg of a multi-stop road trip combined with potentially long lines.

Maybe the ratio of EVs on the interstate to EV charging ports along highways is so much better than the ratio of ICEVs to gas pumps along highways that it's less likely to wind up with a long wait in a line. It just seems unlikely to me from everything I've seen about it so far.

But it's probably hard to find any accurate and complete data about it. Probably super easy to find unsubstantiated and unprovable "data" from folks with agendas or biases about it, though.

I would hope/expect the ratios to get better over time for EVs while they get worse for ICEVs.
 
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Knight Shift said:
You do realize a gas station stop is usually about 10 minutes, and it can be a bit longer if they are busy.
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Stop the nonesense---its always easier and faster to get gas than to recharge at a public stop, if you find one. 10 minutes to fill up with gas is also bs ,that's exceptionally rare for me.
 
OntheBanks said:
My battery level is on the dashboard and in my Ford Pass app. I could be in South America and check my battery level. It's good for 17 miles right now. Enough to get me through the day so I'll plug in my Level 1 charger when I'm done driving for the day. Get me to 80% charged and I'll be good for the next day.
Works for me. Not a nickel paid for gasoline since it was bought on June 29.
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So you need to always be aware of your battery level --- is the air on when it's 95? how fast you're going? And by the way who's paying for that electricity? And how's it's being produced? It's like cell phones-- how much battery life do I have ,bla, bla ,bla. It's your choice.but like solar power off grid I have no desire to check gauges/computer screens.Like I said it's your choice not mind so enjoy it.
 
ru66 said:
So you need to always be aware of your battery level --- is the air on when it's 95? how fast you're going? And by the way who's paying for that electricity? And how's it's being produced? It's like cell phones-- how much battery life do I have ,bla, bla ,bla. It's your choice.but like solar power off grid I have no desire to check gauges/computer screens.Like I said it's your choice not mind so enjoy it.
Click to expand...
You don't have a cell phone?
 
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