For those interested in historic sights. Went to a play last night at Ford’s Theater. Was seated close to the door where John Wilkes Booth entered Lincoln’s box. Fords Theater
OT: Ford’s Theater
- Thread starter RUboston
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Ya know, as a kid, I was a little dense on catching onto innuendo (okay, maybe the dense part hasn't changed in all this time), and it took a while for me to understand the meaning of: "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
“Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?” An old joke. It’s amazing when you compare what today’s presidential security compared to then. When you factor in the country was in a Civil War, the lack of security is astonishing. If Lincoln had lived, the entire Reconstruction period would have been entirely different and the US would have been much further along regarding race relations.
Grant regretted later he wasn't there. He thought he might have been able to protect Lincoln.
Amazingly enough, round-the-clock governmental protection for the President was not established until after President William McKinley was assassinated in 1901. Not even the assassination of President James Garfield in 1881 had been sufficient to bring this about. https://www.history.com/news/mckinley-assassination-created-the-secret-service (Moderators: sorry if this is too political).
Booth certainly said the former (which was the state motto of Virginia). ("Thus always to tyrants!") He may have said the latter.https://www.pbs.org/wnet/lookingforlincoln/lincoln-myths-and-misconceptions-quiz-answer-12/
Hard to know what exactly the path would have been, but Lincoln had already shown himself to be excellent at sensing the public mood and at mediating between the conservative and radical branches of the Republican party. He knew when to adhere to his principles, and when he had to compromise. In other words, Lincoln was a master politician in the best sense.
On the wall of Keene's Chophouse in Manhattan is, among other Lincoln memorabilia, the playbill Lincoln was holding when he was shot. (Fantastic steaks & chops too)
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It wasn't just losing Lincoln at that moment in time, but also gaining A. Johnson (probably the worst person for the challenge of reconstruction). Our history would have also been very different if the VP was a true Lincoln supporter with a similar POV.
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Yes, Johnson was a disaster. He lacked LIncoln's political touch.
I'm not sure if there was such a thing as a true LIncoln supporter: Lincoln was one of a kind in his ability to discern the path that would work.
Lincoln had two goals for the post-war period that were going to come in conflict. On the one hand, unlike the radicals, he wanted to be generous to the rebelling states and to bring them back into the Union quickly. On the other hand, unlike the conservatives in his party, he wanted voting rights at least for the Black soldiers who had fought so courageously for the Union. (It was Lincoln's support for black voting rights that was the last straw for Booth.) Bringing about those two goals was going to be hard. We don't know if and how Lincoln could have done it, or what Lincoln would have done if he found these two goals irreconcilable. One thing is for sure: whatever he would have done, he would have been more successful than Johnson.
By the way, one of the best documents about the Confederacy is the diary kept by Mary Chesnut, wife of a very prominent Southern leader. She recounts how angry her friends were that Lincoln (whom they hated) had been assassinated because they knew it would make him a martyr who would be honored forever.
The Grants were on there way to see their children at there home........in Burlington.
I actually meant that Lincoln was determined to help the South rejoin/recover and support freed slaves become full citizens. AJ wasn't really interested in these goals.
I haven't read the diary by Mary Chesnut, but obviously it is used quite extensively in Ken Burns' Civil War doc. Perhaps I will check out the source material!
Solid video on Ford's Theater and the assassination:
Overall, this is a very good YT channel for history buffs.
Overall, this is a very good YT channel for history buffs.
C. Vann Woodward edited an excellent edition of the diary. It is worth reading even for the gossipy parts about the young women that Mrs. Chesnut knew.
Johnson was too influenced by his personal animosities and his inferiority complex (His wife had taught him to read.) He also hated blacks. He was far from the only anti-slavery Southerner to despise blacks as potential economic threats.
"Isn't it pretty to think so," to borrow a line from Hemingway. A masterful politician, Lincoln was not quite the champion of racial justice we might wish him to have been. And amidst the struggles of reconstruction and then with the rise of the Dixiecrats, the defeated South would have not have accommodated any Federal efforts to accelerate "improving" race relations. It just wasn't possible. Even if Lincoln were not assassinated, it'd likely still be a hundred years before any political inroads were made, ironically by another "Johnson," LBJ.
That was the excuse lol
"Just days after accepting Lee’s surrender, the Union general accepted Lincoln’s invitation to attend “Our American Cousin” at Ford’s Theatre on the evening of April 14, 1865. The general’s wife, however, had recently been the victim of Mary Todd Lincoln’s acid tongue and wanted no part of a night on the town with the first lady. Grant backed out, citing the couple’s desire to travel to New Jersey to see their children."
10 Things You May Not Know About the Lincoln Assassination
Explore 10 surprising facts about one of the most infamous moments in American history.
www.history.com
Outside of Abe I don't think anyone liked Mrs. LincolnThat was the excuse lol
"Just days after accepting Lee’s surrender, the Union general accepted Lincoln’s invitation to attend “Our American Cousin” at Ford’s Theatre on the evening of April 14, 1865. The general’s wife, however, had recently been the victim of Mary Todd Lincoln’s acid tongue and wanted no part of a night on the town with the first lady. Grant backed out, citing the couple’s desire to travel to New Jersey to see their children."
10 Things You May Not Know About the Lincoln Assassination
Explore 10 surprising facts about one of the most infamous moments in American history.
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The chair Lincoln was sitting in (blood stained and all) and the dress worn by the lead actress of My American Cousin (who cradled Lincoln’s head) are among other artifacts of that event that are displayed in the Henry Ford Museum in Deerborn Michigan.
that Museum is huge and well worth the trip.
that Museum is huge and well worth the trip.
Garfield also had no protective detail when he was shot. Went to railroad station with his two sons and Secretary of State.
I don’t think Lincoln would have agreed to let the former states in rebellion against the US, to have authority in administering and determining how the former slaves would be integrated into society. He was firmly on the side of using Federal power to achieve the desired outcome. I don’t think the barriers erected and violence that was used to subjugate the former slaves after war would have been tolerated. He had the will, leadership and intelligence to effect the transformation unlike the weak and feeble Johnson.
This is a must read about the hunt for Booth:
Amazon product ASIN B005CL8E6Y
“James Swanson has written a terrific narrative of the hunt for Lincoln’s killers that will mesmerize the reader from start to finish just as the actual manhunt mesmerized the entire nation. It is a triumphant book.”
—Doris Kearns Godwin
Amazon product ASIN B005CL8E6Y
“James Swanson has written a terrific narrative of the hunt for Lincoln’s killers that will mesmerize the reader from start to finish just as the actual manhunt mesmerized the entire nation. It is a triumphant book.”
—Doris Kearns Godwin
We just don't know. As I said above, Lincoln was trying to pursue conflicting objectives because he wanted to restore the Union as soon as possible. He would certainly have done better than Andrew Johnson. (Johnson's problem wasn't so much that he was weak but that he couldn't get along with anybody, and was racist to boot.) I think I agree that Lincoln would not have countenanced the Black Codes that the former slave states created to hold the newly-emancipated Blacks in near-slavery. I agree he would have done more to incorporate the former slaves into free society. It's clear he would have allowed the vote for at least some Blacks. It's hard to tell beyond that.
For the Union, it was a matter of winning the peace now that they won the war. It was about healing and recovery and moving forward with a whole new industrial economy, bringing the south along, as much as possible. How the south and the nation saw to assimilating freemen was a challenge, to say the least. Reconstruction lasted a bit more than a decade. After that, the fate of former slaves in the south was left to states and local jurisdictions. Oppression and terror ruled the day. Not sure Lincoln would have been able to influence that path in the three short years remaining of his presidency, should he had not been killed. "The Great Migration" from the south to the north and west is a testament to the failure of the south to accept and assimilate blacks.
The History Underground is one of my favorite YouTube channels.
I have been to Ford’s theater three times. Very interesting piece of history.
The flag that was used as a pillow for his head is in the history/art museum in tiny Milford, PA. Blood stained. It is incredibly moving to be standing there looking at it.
U.S. Grant was a big Lincoln supporter and when he was President he tried to protect Black rights in the South the way he thought that Lincoln might have.
We have Ford’s Garage in southwest Florida.
www.fordsgarageusa.com
Ford's Garage | Prime Burgers | Craft Beer | Comfort Food
Ford’s Garage is your neighborhood burger and beer joint, featuring delicious Prime Burgers, Signature Drinks, Huge Craft Beer selection, and more.
www.fordsgarageusa.com
The original Fords theater was destroyed and later rebuilt
Takes a bit away from the awe of being there, but still a very worthwhile visit
I am not entirely sure this is the case... that if Lincoln lived reconstruction and race.
Lincoln was a politician. Consider JFK.. people make up all kinds of stuff about what JFK would have done... like would have ended the Vietnam War... when he was the one who escalated things.
I think Lincoln may very well have been worse during reconstruction.. not worse than his veep ended up.. but worse than what people think Lincoln would have been like. Lincoln held off on the Emancipation of blacks until he thought it the right political move.
EXAMPLE (link): In his last speech, on April 11, 1865, Lincoln, referring to Reconstruction in Louisiana, expressed the view that some Blacks—the “very intelligent” and those who had served in the Union army—ought to enjoy the right to vote. (from Britannica)
I think Lincoln the politician would have made similar accommodations during reconstruction as to what actually occurred under Johnson and that would have tarnished his image. Either that or we would have been fighting a guerilla war for decades and the occupation of the South would have been brutal.. possibly leading to a permanent political division of states because no one would want to go through another Civil War.
Lincoln spent more time listening, less time talking. The opposite of all politicians and most people today.
Grant was long thought to have been a terrible President, and indeed his cronies were corrupt. But the biographies of him by Jean Edward Smith and Ron Chernow (whose biography of Hamilton inspired the musical) have done much to rehabilitate his reputation.
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