OT: More Cheating in New England??!! Sox BUSTED!!
- Thread starter AreYouNUTS
- Start date
I love baseball. I also don't get why stealing signs should be illegal. It's part of the game.
It is part of the game. But not using Apple Watches in the dugout to do it.
They should have every game they won as such stripped. No question whatsoever.
stealing signs used to be considered an art in baseball.
Now with all the technology available, you know whether it's an apple watch or a stealth drone, some team is going to find a way to use the technology available today and use it to steal the other teams signs.
I think some teams in the 60s were caught using scouts in bleachers with binoculars and Walkie Talkies to let the dugout know what signs were being used by the opposition .
Where there's a will, there's a way
Now with all the technology available, you know whether it's an apple watch or a stealth drone, some team is going to find a way to use the technology available today and use it to steal the other teams signs.
I think some teams in the 60s were caught using scouts in bleachers with binoculars and Walkie Talkies to let the dugout know what signs were being used by the opposition .
Where there's a will, there's a way
As far as pitches, and the ability to know what is being thrown, I know for a fact that only about half of the players want to know whats coming. Never understood this, but it is what it is....
There is no rule in baseball on sign stealing. Rule is against electronic devices.
I coached a Cal Ripken Travel team of 12 year olds. One of my coaches,stole their signs during the State Championship game. We knew EVEY pitch that was coming,and called or cheered our kids during each at bat. If we used their first name, a fast ball was coming, and if we used their last name, a curve or change up was coming.We always looked at it as out coaching our opponent, and a part of the game.The very reason you use fake signs and key indicators before you give the real sign. All a part of the game.
Lol,It's not about being a "crazy parent". It's about having a special group of kids.A group that once they got to Raritan HS, won State Championships in Football, Basketball and Baseball. It is without a doubt the greatest collection of talent in one 4 year period RHS ever had. We also had a pretty good player that played at CBA.Several of our kids played on schlorship for baseball and football at D1 schools.Myself and my coaches only job was not to screw it up. If you ever have kids, and take an interest in their activities, then hope you get a group like I had. Then hope, minus one or two parents, you get a great of parents also. Travel sports and Rec sports are miles apart, but don't judge my parenting based on my dislike for Yankees fans "in general".
I'm not sure any of that addresses the merits of having adult coaches stealing signs in Cal Ripken baseball.
Incredibly some guys didn't want to know what was coming, but in my day the percentage was no where near 50%..Knowing what the pitch was is the single greatest advantage a hitter can have, I loved to know, but it was a rare occurrence to get them.
Most the time our coaches would alert us to the pitcher tipping his curve or change up,
Our guy Bob Skinner would figure out the signs from the 3rd base coach, but by the time he got em It was time to leave and by the time we played them again the signs changed
We hit Mario Soto well, maybe the only team that did when he was in top form.
He tipped all four of his pitches, with his glove and his fingers
He tipped all four of his pitches, with his glove and his fingers
What about the guy sitting in the replay booth that's sending the signs to the guy in the Red Sox dugout. How is that legal?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/12/sports/baseball/12yvars.html
Sal Yvars, the Giants, a spyglass at the Polo Grounds. The Giants actually hit better on the road in 1951 than at home, so it isn't clear how much the sign stealing actually helped.
Sal Yvars, the Giants, a spyglass at the Polo Grounds. The Giants actually hit better on the road in 1951 than at home, so it isn't clear how much the sign stealing actually helped.
That's something New England sports teams don't understand. Everybody tries to steal signs and signals. You just can't use electronics on the field/in the clubhouse to help you.
Players ON the field trying to steal signs is an ongoing thing; just trying to get an advantage. I'm quite certain that there were some Yankee players that have done it in the past; its a part of baseball.
But, like others have said, the use of technology to get this advantage, I think, crosses the line. When a guy is on second, it is up to pitcher and catcher to protect (even change up) the signs. The runner on second base is a PARTICIPANT in the game, and I think that is where the distinction lies.
I'm a Yankee fan, those August games are over and done with, but I would like to see MLB issue a statement that says the use of technology by non-players will be strictly forbidden.
But, like others have said, the use of technology to get this advantage, I think, crosses the line. When a guy is on second, it is up to pitcher and catcher to protect (even change up) the signs. The runner on second base is a PARTICIPANT in the game, and I think that is where the distinction lies.
I'm a Yankee fan, those August games are over and done with, but I would like to see MLB issue a statement that says the use of technology by non-players will be strictly forbidden.
"Incredibly some guys didn't want to know what was coming" I know right! To be honest I don't know the exact percentage, just seemed to me that about half of the players I was associated with, did not want to know. To me, it was always confusing. I'd say, but I'm standing on second base, I see the sign, it's not that complicated, but NO! I think they just didn't trust me....
I always loved to know what was being thrown, to the point, that before the start of the game I would study the pitchers motion, oddities, any difference in motion, etc. It was of great use to me.
BTW, since I have your attention, know it's late, but very sorry for the loss of your father. He was truly one of the all time greats of the game. And, we just don't have those type of people we can admire anymore.
Thank you,
It also wasn't unusual to point out an oddity in the pitchers motion you see and works for you, that no one else can see.
As far as not trusting you at 2nd, it only takes one time where you put your hand on your knee for slider away and you get a fastball up and in...lol
Zappaa, why was that? I know center field was death valley out there (the wall was 480 feet away from home plate , but the distances down the lines were barely 250 feet.
zap, here's a question I've always had, and forgive me if it is massively naive.
I have heard announcers occasionally talk about where the catcher is setting up for the pitch, and you can see that they really move the target around. Is there some sort of unwritten law that says that you're not allowed, as a hitter, to take a glance and see where the catcher is set up? Does that earn you one high and inside, or do batters routinely look to see where the catcher is calling for the pitch?
Don't ever look back, that's all that needs to be said about that.
It's more than an unwritten law, its etched in 10 feet of granite.
Thanks, zap!
(You do recognize how incredibly Yogi that comment is?! It's unwritten in 10 feet of granite?! The force is strong in you.):smiley:
Contrary to what you might think, with the speed and talent of center fielders in the big leagues, the bigger out field actually takes hits away.
Corner outfielders play shallower and turn routine singles into outs
I'll take that as an answer to my question, not Skillethead's. The definitive proof of how bad the big center field in the Polo Grounds was for hitters was Vic Wertz's shot in the 1954 World Series that was caught by Willie Mays with his back to the plate. In any other park (except the Yankee stadium your father played in), Wertz's ball would have been a home run.
Was Yankee Stadium also considered a bad hitter's park by the same reasoning? If I remember right, the right field wall was pretty close from the foul pole to the bullpen. But left field went back very quickly, and there was a lot of area for a speedy centerfielder like Mantle to roam.
I think they should be allowed to use technology to steal signs and predict pitches. Like every NFL team does.
Yankee stadium was built for left handed hitters and right handed hitters with opposite field power, like Moose and Ellie.
It killed Joe D, my dad said he would have hit 500 homers if he played elsewhere.
Big left field, bigger left center, huge center field 463...more room less hits
Thanks! I remember Skowron would hit a lot of long shots to left center that would die in an outfielder's glove.
The amount of foul territory plays into it as well. Polo Grounds had a lot of space between the foul lines and the seats, and deep, spacious outfields everywhere except down the lines. Oakland Coliseum (or whatever it's called now) had really spacious foul territory too.
What I mean by the Giants average was worse at the Polo Grounds than on the road in 1951 -- they acquired Yvars in a trade in June, and he put the sign stealing scheme together. The Giants home batting average apparently went down through the summer of 1951.
it's also pretty elaborate and the info has to get to the batter very quickly, so it makes you wonder how effective it actually was. You could successfully steal the sign but if you couldn't get the info to the batter in a timely manner it does very little good.
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