The Pelican Dip Grip the pitchers were using down in Houston does wonders for spin rate and control.
OT: New York Yankees 2020 season
- Thread starter c10j10s
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I'm 1/2 busting and 1/2 asking a serious question.
Cole is a good pitcher. He had a couple of good years in Pitt and even his bad years were not horrible. So- regardless what may or may not have happened in Houston and if anything illegal was involved, I do think he will be a good Yankee pitcher. My question is not if he will have success but if it will be closer to his Pitt success or the other world success he showed in Houston. And you guys are paying him to be the Houston success, not the Pittsburgh success
Three more years with that Davis contract. Honestly, all the talk about his expensive contract is just BS talk from cheap owners. The guy makes $17mm. Yeah, he's not worth a tenth of that but does that mean ownership needs to spend $45mm on the entire roster? It's disgraceful. That ownership isn't even trying. They're pulling the same crap Selig did with the Brewers. Made the city build a beautiful new ballpark to keep the team in town then sit back and collect the revenue sharing checks. They're not even trying. Look how good the Rays are with a small payroll. It can be done.
You know, I am not saying he is going to go down hill...I am just asking the question. And the question comes up to quite a few people as it isn't like he improved incrementally but his numbers took a Sandy Kofax type of turn. As did a couple of other pitchers that joined the Astros at about the same time. He all of a sudden started to give up 3 less hits per 9 innings and added 5 K's per 9 innings.
Davis signed a 7 year $161 million deal so he certainly is making more than $17 million this year. I don't believe the Angelos Family is lobbying for a new stadium because despite approaching 30 years old Camden Yards is still one of the best ballparks in the entire country. They have a perfect setup there, just off the highway adjacent to M&T Bank stadium with loads of parking.
My understanding is with Mike Elias and Sig Mejdal they are focussing on building up their analytics department and international signing market which both were non existent prior to last year. I don't want us just going out and signing guys to be a bit better but not help us long term, we had plenty of that around 10 years ago signing aging former stars like Sammy Sosa, Javy Lopez, Melvin Mora and others. The orioles had 18 straight losing seasons doing it that way until 2013 when they had that nice 3 season run.
I'm all about a complete rebuild if we stick to it, despite the recent scandal remember about 10 years ago the Astros were the worst team in baseball but then accumulated a lot of high draft picks along with signing the right international free agents and all the sudden are a power. We have the guys in Baltimore who are responsible for that Astros' roster. Hopefully it will turn soon because the city deserves it. Baltimore has had nothing but bad luck and horrible politicians for 3 decades. It's a city that desperately needs some hope. People talk about Detroit being downtrodden, take a drive down North Avenue in Baltimore and I'll show you downtrodden
I looked up his contract on Spotrac. That's how much they're paying him the final 3 from 20-22. It's higher from a luxury tax calc perspective because of signing and various bonuses that are spread over the life of the deal but cash outlay is $17mm.
I thought Camden Yards was newer but then again I have to remind myself daily that the 90's wasn't ten years ago lol. I'm slowly turning into one of those old people who are shocked that stuff isn't the same price it was in the 60's.
Hopefully they start to get better but being the league's punching bag for ten years while hoping every move you made during that period comes together at the same time so you have a 5 year window before you start over is IMHO a pretty shitty business model. Totally unfair to the fans too.
His last two years in Pitt they sucked. Both he and Verlander showed improvement in part they were finally playing for something.
I look at his contract the same as C.C.'s. Sounded like a lot when he signed. Turned out to be a bargain. If he stays healthy like all players he was exactly what the Yankees needed.
I watched him a lot in Pittsburgh. He was very good until he got hurt. And no he wasn't 100%. But they finally pulled the plug after 5 straight bad outings in August and early September.
CC ends up one of the all time great FAcsignings.
And I get it with Cole. Always been pretty good with a very good year in there as well. Potential to be a #1 was always there. He will be a winner for the Yankees and deserves to be a number 1.
His career just took a drastic turn that you just don’t see and it happen to be exactly when Verlander not only hit the fountain of youth but also became so much better than his already borderline HOF career
There are just times that something looks like and smells like...
Maybe the Astro’s pitching coach has figured out something no one else in baseball knows.
And what I’m referring to is just as available in TB and NYC as it is in Houston.
So, maybe no issue.
But snyo e that doesn’t see a pattern is either a Yankee or Astro fan
Yeah a really good pitching coach. Verlander's turn around was immediately. So you can't say it was HGH or any other drug or steroids as they take time to show results. Yankees on the other hand would trade for very good pitchers who instantly got worse. Larry Rothschild was terrible.
You can't let stats dictate how to play. Your eyes tell you a 1000x more. Mel used his eyes.
You and I are old schoolers...these new stats don’t tell us a damn thing. I know who I want up when the game is on the line...
Did we needs stats when G Brett was facing us? You knew he was the last person on earth you wanted to see at bat with the game on the line.
Manny- forgetaboutit
Because it was 6 years ago, and he was in the minors and like 19 or 20 years old. Let me guess .......... you were a guiding light of all that is good at 20 years old.
He was also "suspended" in 2018 for lack of hustle. Sent to Florida to "rehab" an injury but was clearly sent down because of multiple in game issues.
I think Sanchez has two years left with the NYY before he's playing for another team. In 2018, he led the AL in passed balls. In 2019, he led the AL in errors by a catcher. He's a big liability behind the plate, but the NYY already are burdened with too many DHs.
There will be someone that can replace him available when the time comes.
I could see Wilson Contreras or JT Realmuto being a NYY in three years.
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19/20 yo trying for a MLB career and not hustling??? You are comparing It to what? Does a 19/20 y/o in football or BB not hustle like their life depended on it. That HAS to be a huge red flag.
You do understand the difference or a 19 yo working for a multimillion dollar career vs a standard college student of the same age that will still be paying student loans at 35...
Yes compared to him, I was an Angel. AT 18 I was in the military, overseas and making $ 40 a month, if I did what he
did I would be in jail or dead. I am not going to compare us, but he would never ever be on my team or in my fox hole,
that's for sure.
Link?? You obviously weren't paying attention. Common knowledge.
But here are two plays in 2018 that led directly to a loss IN THE SAME GAME. He was sent to Florida shortly after additional issues and a hamstring injury. He was not allowed to stay with the team to rehab.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...le-on-two-plays-i-should-have-run-harder/amp/
That was the problem. Houston's pitching coach saw something. Rothschild went by numbers. Sonny Gray's complaint after he left the Yankees.
The problem of going with the numbers for a pitcher is you become predictable. Everyone has the same access to the numbers.
Yep- the same analytics people that take pitchers like deGrom out of games after 7 innings when he just struck out the side the previous inning.
Perhaps that's the reason Jacob has been healthy the last couple of years.
It is honestly hilarious how desperately Met, Astro, and Red Sox fans want the Yankees swept up in this cheating scandal.
Oh for the sake of God. It’s coaching AND analytics. Houston is heavy on analytics. Here’s a nice article describing how they made adjustments to his approach to change him from very good to elite.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fiveth...errit-cole-went-from-so-so-to-unhittable/amp/
Did you read the part about spin rate? You do know that what helped Verlander too. That isn't analytics that is coaching. Teaching a physical aspect of the game. Did Rothschild do any coaching? The physical game? Because he sure f-uped some pretty solid pitchers
It's not a stretch to think that they're also involved.
I doubt it. To many Yankees are now blasting Astros in public, in front of media. Gary Sanchez the latest shot just yesterday. If they had been doing it they wouldn't be so vocal.
I did. I reread the whole article before I linked it. The article described a meeting between management and Cole where management proposed a new approach “aided by heat maps, data and video.” I think this suggests that analytics was used beyond just spin rate.
Yes it's all part of it. Not like it was with Rothschild for the Yankees where the only approach was pitching to numbers. It's insane that not one pitcher that the Yankees traded for or signed as a free agent got better. At all! Not one. Sonny was killed for his comments after being traded. Go read his so called complaints. It was a clown show with Rothschild and players that didn't come up threw the system.
I agree that Yankees have done terrible developing starting pitching. I think that’s the biggest criticism of Cashman. He’s done great identifying positional players, but they haven’t been able to coach up pitchers like others teams.
Houston is screwing up their apology so much that maybe the WS title will get vacated.
That whole press conference was a train wreck. That was textbook of what not to do from a PR point of view. What a bunch of morons.
