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OT: OJ Died

e5fdny said:
Do you think he was innocent?
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Yes - as of 2023

I knew prosecution was sketchy and jurors had to decide "not guilty."
I forgot about the case until hearing lawyer Robert Barnes last year (does podcast with Vivafrei).
Barnes is pretty well known for having repped Wesley Snipes, Ralph Nader, Nick Sandman, Amish Farmers and was a Trump (also innocent) advisor. Barnes left Yale because it was too snotty (he went to Tenn).

Its curious to see so many people still speak of OJ with so much vitriol when DC killed many people denying them therapeutics and CCP kills with Fentanyl and few care.


 
retired711 said:
The prosecution of the Rodney King cops was not in state court the way the Simpson case was, but rather in federal district court. So the L.A. county D.A. did not handle the case. Instead the U.S. Attorney (appointed by the President) did. Federal districts cover a rather large area and so the jury in the cops case was drawn from a larger vicinity.
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Wasn’t there a change in venue on the King case? I recall the trial being in Simi Valley, an area which would be more sympathetic to the police.
 
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The white Bronco chase/escort was on at the bar while I watched Ewing vs Olajuwon on the big TV in back. Some of the pub patrons came back and insisted on switching the big screen to the Freeway Tour. They got sent back grumbling but to my dismay, NBC cut out of the game to follow the sad parade.
 
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colbert17 said:
Any of you guys ever see Jim Brown?
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I wish I had. This is why I said OJ was most likely top 3
Brown has to be first
Then, I go with Sweetness
Next- OJ
My personal next two are Sanders and Dorsett(who seems to get forgotten too often)
 
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colbert17 said:
Any of you guys ever see Jim Brown?
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I wasn't alive for start of Jim Brown career but from films I've seen the defensive players were lame back then. Even players from that era say the "stars" were on offense and defenders were bouncers, laborers and farmers in off season. They weren't big or quick for most part. SEC had no black players until early 70s so they weren't in NFL (black players then came from HBCUs). Barry Sanders playing in late 50s, early 60s would have had 4 TDs a game. Big/fast backs like Earl Campbell and Eric Dickerson would have run over guys like a crime.

Look at NYG "Fearsome Foursome" - HOF DE- Andy Robustelli # 81 - he was "reported" as 6' 230lbs and that's no doubt a fib. He was a 19th round draft pick. Jim Brown was on another level from these type of old skool defenders. College football was still pretty small bodied and slow back then. If Brown didn't have connections at SU - and a lax scholarship - he never would have played football at SU.

mhwUpd4.jpeg
 
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retired711 said:
Yes. By contrast, the O.J. case was tried in downtown L.A. although venue would have been proper in the area near Santa Monica where the crime occurred.
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Biggest mistake by the prosecution was moving the venue. They thought they had overwhelming evidence, which they did, and wanted the urban venue for optics. But once it became a clown show and they realized it was going in the shitter, all they needed was one juror to hang the verdict and send it to retrial. They couldn't get one in that LA courtroom and Not Guilty sinks a solid case for eternity, evidence be damned.
 
Knight Shift said:
Sad that people think that way. And a national media outlet too. Crime never pays, especially getting away with murder.

View embedded media
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I live in Georgia. There are a lot of 80-90 year old people walking the streets who either murdered or were accomplices to such in the 50's-60's and never paid at all for their crimes. Some even posed for photos for posterity. Robert Chambliss was an outlier. And even he was almost 90 and had been able to live his full life.
 
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ashokan said:
I wasn't alive for start of Jim Brown career but from films I've seen the defensive players were lame back then. Even players from that era say the "stars" were on offense and defenders were bouncers, laborers and farmers in off season. They weren't big or quick for most part. SEC had no black players until early 70s so they weren't in NFL (black players then came from HBCUs). Barry Sanders playing in late 50s, early 60s would have had 4 TDs a game. Big/fast backs like Earl Campbell and Eric Dickerson would have run over guys like a crime.

Look at NYG "Fearsome Foursome" - HOF DE- Andy Robustelli # 81 - he was "reported" as 6' 230lbs and that's no doubt a fib. He was a 19th round draft pick. Jim Brown was on another level from these type of old skool defenders. College football was still pretty small bodied and slow back then. If Brown didn't have connections at SU - and a lax scholarship - he never would have played football at SU.

mhwUpd4.jpeg
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Players of that era said repeatedly on NFL Films the Giants were the first team to put the better athletes on defense.
 
Yeah Jim Brown was truly from a different era, so it's difficult to compare. Hugh McElhenny was another one that looked amazing but again it's black and white film against part time players.

OJ and Dorsett was at least from a time when the NFL and AFL were fully integrated and the sport was farther along.

Barry Sanders and Bo Jackson are the two most incredible backs of my lifetime. Bo's was cut short due to the hip bone necrosis and Barry retired way too early, but they were better than Payton.

After those two, then you have in no particular order Watters, Payton, Roger Craig, Marcus Allen, Dickerson, Marshall Faulk, CMC, Thurman Thomas, Chris Johnson as ones that really impressed me purely eye test. I'm sure there are others but these guys came to mind when I think of a RB that is truly special. Then there are the guys that were just so insanely consistent and durable like Gore, Emmitt, Curtis Martin that maybe don't look all that amazing but just kept dominating statistically.
 
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ashokan said:
As Taylor Swift would say "I was there."
I imagine where people lived and who they knew would shape opinions
People didn't have the venom they acquired to this day.
Part of scene was 90s race stuff.
Early 90s had Crown Heights Riot, Howard Beach, Million Man March, Sharpton stabbing and such
"Law and Order" was an escalating issue that culminated in congressional passage of crime bill.
OJ was right in middle of all that, and white people were progressively resenting the black people cheering on OJ. Most of the black people I spoke to (and I lived with them) mentioned the blood discrepancy


"NEW YORK, July 25 -- Close to half of 750 New Yorkers questioned last week do not believe that O.J. Simpson is guilty of murder, but more blacks than whites and more men than women say the former football great is innocent, a poll reported Monday. The poll, conducted by Louis Harris and Associates for New York's Daily News, found that 47 percent of those polled said Simpson did not kill his ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson, or her companion, Ronald Goldman. Thirty percent said he did, and 23 percent said they were not sure. Difference of opinion was especially dramatic along racial lines, as they have been in other polls. Among blacks, 70 percent said Simpson is innocent and only 7 percent believed he was guilty."

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Dude, in June 94 no one thought he was innocent . Even Shapiro was trying to work a deal.
You couldn’t be more wrong
 
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AntiG said:
Yeah Jim Brown was truly from a different era, so it's difficult to compare. Hugh McElhenny was another one that looked amazing but again it's black and white film against part time players.

OJ and Dorsett was at least from a time when the NFL and AFL were fully integrated and the sport was farther along.

Barry Sanders and Bo Jackson are the two most incredible backs of my lifetime. Bo's was cut short due to the hip bone necrosis and Barry retired way too early, but they were better than Payton.

After those two, then you have in no particular order Watters, Payton, Roger Craig, Marcus Allen, Dickerson, Marshall Faulk, CMC, Thurman Thomas, Chris Johnson as ones that really impressed me purely eye test. I'm sure there are others but these guys came to mind when I think of a RB that is truly special. Then there are the guys that were just so insanely consistent and durable like Gore, Emmitt, Curtis Martin that maybe don't look all that amazing but just kept dominating statistically.
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You have to include Gale Sayers and Earl Campbell...two of the best I've ever seen.
 
Kbee3 said:
We know the truth about what happened.
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Of course we do but he would be able to verify it. Does anyone remember if he testified at the trial? For our board lawyers if he knew what happened and didn’t come forward does he have any criminal liability? An accessory after the fact thing?
 
Kbee3 said:
I've been retired for almost ten years.
Some of those co-workers were my friends. I never looked at them the same after they reacted that way to a guy who brutally murdered two innocent people getting off scot free.
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They probably never looked at you the same either. Seeing that your anger was never there when others got away with murder. And you didn't give a shit.
 
AntiG said:
Yeah when I saw his highlights I felt the same way, only RB clearly better were Barry and Bo. Everyone else you can make an argument.
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Yes, OJ could slice and dice through a defense like a knife-wielding murderer on a stabbing spree. Those skills proved useful to him in his life after football. He killed it on and off the field.
 
colbert17 said:
Funny but I never thought that OJ got off because he was black. He got off because he was rich and famous
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Both played a role. There was and still is a belief among many minorities that the police and justice system target minorities. The reality is that poorer people cannot afford a competent defense team, but OJ had enough to afford the dream team. Many people demonized the attorneys, particularly Johnny Cochrane and F Lee Bailey. But they were just doing their jobs that they were hired to do. For anyone that works in the law, your job is to win the case for your client. Whether they believed in their hearts that OJ was innocent or guilty is another issue. F Lee Bailey authored a book where he apparently took the position that he thought OJ was innocent. The attorneys did their job in establishing reasonable doubt in the minds of a jury that had historical and perhaps personal reasons to not trust the police and the justice system.

The rich and the powerful find ways to beat the system all the time. OJ and the dream team did a masterful job in getting the end result. As for OJ, he knows what he did. For the lawyers, hate the game, not the players.
 
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Plum Street said:
Dude, in June 94 no one thought he was innocent . Even Shapiro was trying to work a deal.
You couldn’t be more wrong
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Nah it was a sliding escalation from innocent to guilty.
WSJ covered it

"In July 1994, 33% believed Mr. Simpson was guilty, according to the WSJ/NBC poll at the time -- with 37% of whites and 15% of blacks believing in his guilt. By October 1995, 65% of whites believed him guilty while just 18% of blacks did."

 
AntiG said:
Him and AC Green
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Woke up in the middle of the night and ESPN was running the 5 or 6 part OJ series. Forgot how much circumstantial evidence there was against OJ. Racist cops or not, the glove at the crime scene, the matching bloody glove behind Kato's bungalow (who heard the boom against the wall thinking it was an earthquake), the cut(s) on his hand, the bloody handprint on the Bronco, the DNA evidence. Quite a remarkable (or despicable depending how you see it) by his defense team to convince the jury there was reasonable doubt. Wonder if there were video cameras back them showing OJ killing Ron and Nicole if he still would have been acquitted. The Dream Team would have cooked up that it was cops wearing OJ disguises?
 
Back in 94- I was managing a Help Desk up in Groton Ct...We had a big 100+ inch TV that we used to keep on the news and or weather all the time. When the verdict was being read, the entire company stopped work and came into the NOC to watch on what was then, a huge screen.
Complete shock at the not guilty. Almost all "whites" felt he was guilty as F! and the minorities- there were some that he had been railroaded but many still thought he was guilty. The overwhelming feel I did get, was that a lot of the minorities- while in there brains, they knew he was most likely guilty, there was also an emotional part of them that were happy with the not guilty purely because of the racial tensions at the time and Furmen's testimony. It wasn't so much that they felt OJ didn't do it but that they were thrilled that for once, racist cops were held accountable.
 
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yesrutgers01 said:
Back in 94- I was managing a Help Desk up in Groton Ct...We had a big 100+ inch TV that we used to keep on the news and or weather all the time. When the verdict was being read, the entire company stopped work and came into the NOC to watch on what was then, a huge screen.
Complete shock at the not guilty. Almost all "whites" felt he was guilty as F! and the minorities- there were some that he had been railroaded but many still thought he was guilty. The overwhelming feel I did get, was that a lot of the minorities- while in there brains, they knew he was most likely guilty, there was also an emotional part of them that were happy with the not guilty purely because of the racial tensions at the time and Furmen's testimony. It wasn't so much that they felt OJ didn't do it but that they were thrilled that for once, racist cops were held accountable.
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That was my take too at the time. Was working in Newark at a very diverse place. I get it, but it still drives me nuts because this was a horrible domestic violence case and that, along with the deceased, were overshadowed by the tensions of the time.
 
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Kbee3 said:
You have to include Gale Sayers and Earl Campbell...two of the best I've ever seen.
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I never understood all the fuss from my late Dad and his contemporaries regarding him. Then I saw the films. Wow.

Earl Campbell, I did get to see play. Also, wow.
 
Dickerson was one of my favorites.
Sayers, Payton, Dorsett, Sanders are the four guys at the top of my list for "small speedy guys" - and all 4 could also run inside as well
Brown, OJ, Bo, Dickerson, Campbell were all bigger guys with OJ/Bo with just different speed gears for much bigger RB's. Dickerson was super smooth and Brown was just Brown. But man- you watch OJ's highlights- it seemed he just had a different vision of the field then everyone else.

And then you have the next level- of Faulk, Smith, Martin etc...

It is a shame that the game has gotten so far away from these types of players.
 
I have an episode of SNL on VHS that shows Heisman Homicide sticking a pin into a Walter Payton doll.
I don't think that this has ever been shown on TV again,though it was probably included in boxed sets.
 
e5fdny said:
I never understood all the fuss from my late Dad and his contemporaries regarding him. Then I saw the films. Wow.

Earl Campbell, I did get to see play. Also, wow.
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yeah Earl and Gayle also never got to see play. Started watching football in the late mid 80s.

Crazy how now RBs can't even get paid anymore when they are so vital to an offense functioning. Last year, CMC was the true MVP of the league during the regular season, he was absolutely unstoppable. Most years too, you can make the case for a RB.
 
AntiG said:
yeah Earl and Gayle also never got to see play. Started watching football in the late mid 80s.

Crazy how now RBs can't even get paid anymore when they are so vital to an offense functioning. Last year, CMC was the true MVP of the league during the regular season, he was absolutely unstoppable. Most years too, you can make the case for a RB.
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I never say Brown and only caught the very last part of Sayers. I was born in 1962 and even though I may have been watching in the late 60's, I don't recall much. But beginning early 70's, that is when I really started to follow. And my two teams were the Bills and Cowboys. Loved to watch OJ play on a team with no one else that should have been playing offense on an NFL team except for Braxton and the OL. And then Dorsett on the Cowboys- and only became a fan of them because they were the team on TV every single week. OJ was much better than Dorsett but it is sometimes very hard to appreciate what Dorsett was capable of unless you did watch him every game.
 
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yesrutgers01 said:
I never say Brown and only caught the very last part of Sayers. I was born in 1962 and even though I may have been watching in the late 60's, I don't recall much. But beginning early 70's, that is when I really started to follow. And my two teams were the Bills and Cowboys. Loved to watch OJ play on a team with no one else that should have been playing offense on an NFL team except for Braxton and the OL. And then Dorsett on the Cowboys- and only became a fan of them because they were the team on TV every single week. OJ was much better than Dorsett but it is sometimes very hard to appreciate what Dorsett was capable of unless you did watch him every game.
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Ya know, I used to like you. LOL
 
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