OT:Private Schools, Are they worth the cost?

[ruhudsonfan]

To add, so many times people say that the Top 20 at the local public can compete with anyone. And they can. No argument. But lets dig a little deeper, shall we.

These are Delbarton's placement stats from 2014.

If my mental math is correct, they graduated a 128 kids.

27 went Ivy.

10- Gerogetown
6- ND
4-NYU
3- Duke
3-Michigan
3-Union
1-Williams
1-UVA
1-Chicago
1-Air Force
1-UCLA
1-Berkley

62/128 went what would be considered "elite."

Some other placements were:

10-Nova
7-BC
3-Vanderbilt (could possibly be up above)
3-Lafayette
2-Bucknell
2-Lehigh

Butttttttt, 1 kid went to Farleigh Dickinson so I guess that taints the rest of the results.

When you are placing close to 50% of your graduating class in elite schools, another 30% in schools that we may feel are overrated (Nova, BC), but still have national prestige, I think you're doing your job placement wise.

If you think a kid in the bottom quartile of Marlboro or Ridgewood High is getting into Lehigh, you hit your head...

 

[ruhudsonfan]

To add, so many times people say that the Top 20 at the local public can compete with anyone. And they can. No argument. But lets dig a little deeper, shall we.

These are Delbarton's placement stats from 2014.

If my mental math is correct, they graduated a 128 kids.

27 went Ivy.

10- Gerogetown
6- ND
4-NYU
3- Duke
3-Michigan
3-Union
1-Williams
1-UVA
1-Chicago
1-Air Force
1-UCLA
1-Berkley

62/128 went what would be considered "elite."

Some other placements were:

10-Nova
7-BC
3-Vanderbilt (could possibly be up above)
3-Lafayette
2-Bucknell
2-Lehigh

Butttttttt, 1 kid went to Farleigh Dickinson so I guess that taints the rest of the results.

When you are placing close to 50% of your graduating class in elite schools, another 30% in schools that we may feel are overrated (Nova, BC), but still have national prestige, I think you're doing your job placement wise.

If you think a kid in the bottom quartile of Marlboro or Ridgewood High is getting into Lehigh, you hit your head...

BTW, in 2013, Delbarton sent 8 kids to Princeton. lulz...Marlboro High hasn't sent 8 kids to Princeton since Woodrow Wilson died.

 

[RUtix4me]

biggest difference between Private school and public school - from my experience - is the peer group your child will be with. In public school there is what I refer to the general prison population - kids that don't want to be in school.

Reading the thread, it seems to me the anti private school people are yelling the loudest. The pro private group is offering reasons and insight......you just excuses.

Yes so true.....lol

 

[JoeRU0304]

To add, so many times people say that the Top 20 at the local public can compete with anyone. And they can. No argument. But lets dig a little deeper, shall we.

These are Delbarton's placement stats from 2014.

If my mental math is correct, they graduated a 128 kids.

27 went Ivy.

10- Gerogetown
6- ND
4-NYU
3- Duke
3-Michigan
3-Union
1-Williams
1-UVA
1-Chicago
1-Air Force
1-UCLA
1-Berkley

62/128 went what would be considered "elite."

Some other placements were:

10-Nova
7-BC
3-Vanderbilt (could possibly be up above)
3-Lafayette
2-Bucknell
2-Lehigh

Butttttttt, 1 kid went to Farleigh Dickinson so I guess that taints the rest of the results.

When you are placing close to 50% of your graduating class in elite schools, another 30% in schools that we may feel are overrated (Nova, BC), but still have national prestige, I think you're doing your job placement wise.

If you think a kid in the bottom quartile of Marlboro or Ridgewood High is getting into Lehigh, you hit your head...

What I don't get is why people can't express their support for one without having to denigrate the other. As tough as it is for some to understand, it IS possible to say you like chocolate without having to add that vanilla sucks and is for losers (not saying that's you hudson).

One thing that some posters picked up on that many seem to miss is that in many ways publics and privates are a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. Privates aren't mandated to provide special education and related services. Private schools also have a selection process and can basically get rid of anyone they want within reason. With those points I would certainly think that private schools would generally send more students to 'upper level' colleges, although I don't think that is the only definition of success. A number of students involved in special education are very capable of going to strong colleges, but for many the intensity of their impairment makes it unrealistic if not an outright impossibility.

IMO when an education enables the kid to acquire a skill that they hopefully enjoy doing, they can get legally paid for doing it, and can support themselves and their families throughout adulthood, THAT is lasting success. There are many ways to achieve that.


Joe P.

 

[jtung230]

This thread pops up once a year. The major difference between a good public and good private is that the privates don't have to take the bottom tier and they get some of the top tier to make it look better. Let's face it, public schools will always have kids that are there only because they are required to. If you let them opt out and retain a few more smarter kids, the gap wouldn't justify the additional cost.

 

[RUJohnny99]

How are you defining benefits? College placement? Network? day to day experience? Cost/benefit?

If I recall, you mentioned sending your kids to Yellow Duck? Why? so they could read by 3 years old? I send mine to Goddard, for a 1/3rd of the price, and he can read at 4. Does it matter when either learned to read? Of course not. You saw other intangible benefits to sending your kids to one of the most expensive pre-schools in the state. I don't question that choice or imply you are an idiot for making it, when a perfectly reasonable far less expensive alternative existed a half a mile away.

Do as I say, not as I do. LOL.

 

[Caliknight]

To add, so many times people say that the Top 20 at the local public can compete with anyone. And they can. No argument. But lets dig a little deeper, shall we.

These are Delbarton's placement stats from 2014.

If my mental math is correct, they graduated a 128 kids.

27 went Ivy.

10- Gerogetown
6- ND
4-NYU
3- Duke
3-Michigan
3-Union
1-Williams
1-UVA
1-Chicago
1-Air Force
1-UCLA
1-Berkley

62/128 went what would be considered "elite."

Some other placements were:

10-Nova
7-BC
3-Vanderbilt (could possibly be up above)
3-Lafayette
2-Bucknell
2-Lehigh

Butttttttt, 1 kid went to Farleigh Dickinson so I guess that taints the rest of the results.

When you are placing close to 50% of your graduating class in elite schools, another 30% in schools that we may feel are overrated (Nova, BC), but still have national prestige, I think you're doing your job placement wise.

If you think a kid in the bottom quartile of Marlboro or Ridgewood High is getting into Lehigh, you hit your head...

This is really what it comes down to. 100% of my grad class went to 4 year schools, many to what most would say were very good schools. My class was hardly an anomaly. The amount of kids that didn't get into 4 year schools in decade you could count on one hand. I don't know of any public schools who can cite those sort of stats, but I know of many private schools that can.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Do as I say, not as I do. LOL.

In addition to your unmatched interwebz sleuthing skillz, I certainly admire your honesty. lol

 

[RUJohnny99]

BTW, in 2013, Delbarton sent 8 kids to Princeton. lulz...Marlboro High hasn't sent 8 kids to Princeton since Woodrow Wilson died.

Placement stats don't give the whole story though. Did paying $34 grand/year get those kids access to Princeton, or were they the legacies of Princeton grads who happened to go to Delbarton? If the parents of the top 10 8th graders in Marlboro all hit the lottery & decided to send their kids to Delbarton for high school, would they automagically have access to Princeton for college?

And again, using Delbarton as the measuring stick is dishonest. I may have misread the original post, but he wasn't looking for boarding schools in the $30,000 range. What do the placement stats look like for Don Bosco, RBC, Hudson Catholic, etc?

 

[JoeRU0304]

This is really what it comes down to. 100% of my grad class went to 4 year schools, many to what most would say were very good schools. My class was hardly an anomaly. The amount of kids that didn't get into 4 year schools in decade you could count on one hand. I don't know of any public schools who can cite those sort of stats, but I know of many private schools that can.

No sarcasm at all- I think that's very impressive. On the same note, I think it would be even more impressive if your school did that while following the same rules and regulations as said public schools.

...at the end of the day though I'm glad both options exist for a number of reasons.


Joe P.

 

[Knight Shift]

This is not always true. Holmdel HS and Colts Neck HS consistently rank in the top 10-15 schools in the State and are ranked above many private/Catholic schools. There are also some private schools that don't make the top 50.

Colts Neck has not sniffed the top 10-15. rankings from NJ Monthly:

2014 2012
68 103

 

[RUtix4me]

7 yrs ago a father of an 8th grader in our town, was laughing, one of the big 3 in bergen county offered his son an "academic" scholarship. The kid was 6'4" 235lbs in 8th grade grew out to 6'5 265, and dad knew he wasn't an Einstein

I tipped the kid well when he delivered my pizza last week........I think people need to realize that the high tuition they pay is to support the Athl, i mean "academic" scholarships many of the schools pay out. Mso saying privates are exempt and void of "the prison crowd" isnt always accurate.

 

[T2Kplus10]

To add, so many times people say that the Top 20 at the local public can compete with anyone. And they can. No argument. But lets dig a little deeper, shall we.

These are Delbarton's placement stats from 2014.

If my mental math is correct, they graduated a 128 kids.

27 went Ivy.

10- Gerogetown
6- ND
4-NYU
3- Duke
3-Michigan
3-Union
1-Williams
1-UVA
1-Chicago
1-Air Force
1-UCLA
1-Berkley

62/128 went what would be considered "elite."

Some other placements were:

10-Nova
7-BC
3-Vanderbilt (could possibly be up above)
3-Lafayette
2-Bucknell
2-Lehigh

Butttttttt, 1 kid went to Farleigh Dickinson so I guess that taints the rest of the results.

When you are placing close to 50% of your graduating class in elite schools, another 30% in schools that we may feel are overrated (Nova, BC), but still have national prestige, I think you're doing your job placement wise.

If you think a kid in the bottom quartile of Marlboro or Ridgewood High is getting into Lehigh, you hit your head...

BOOM - Game, set, and match. And schools like Lawrenceville, PDS, Stuart, etc., all have the same stats.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

well what's honest?

Lawrencville isn't honest. Delbarton isn't honest. BTW, in 2013 they sent 12 to Princeton and 2012 they sent 10. Those numbers are mind boggling considering how hard it is for Jersey kids to get into Princeton.

Hudson Catholic is a shit show and about $6,500 a year. Doesn't belong in this conversation.

I would guess that Bosco and Bergen's placement rates are in line with SPP. SPP only makes destinations available online, not numbers. In most years, SPP will send about 10-12 Ivy. At least 10 to Georgetown (the Jesuit connection). 3-5 to ND. Between 4-6 to the Academies. 10-12 to small elite liberal arts schools (Williams, Swarthmore, Haverford, etc). About 15 to RU-NB. Then sprinkling to places like BC, Nova, Holy Cross, UVA, etc. SPP will also have about 2 dozen go to very run of the mill schools. They have a much higher "drop-off" than a place like Delbarton has.

 

[JoeRU0304]

BOOM - Game, set, and match. And schools like Lawrenceville, PDS, Stuart, etc., all have the same stats.

...hard for it to be "game, set, and match" when the rules are significantly different for the sides...


Joe P.

 

[AntiG]

Your cost estimates are way off. Many of these top private schools cost as much or more than college. Pingry is $30k-$35k+/yr. Good private preschools with kindergarten are $15k-$18k+.

And Lawrenceville is 48k for commuters and 58k for boarding... Pingry, Princeton Day SChool and Lawrenceville are worth it if your kid is really smart, competitive and academically driven as their reputation + your kids' own hard work would yield higher results for getting into elite universities and being well-prepared for the future in terms of academics/career. They are high school equivalents of Harvard and Princeton basically, along with a few others in NJ.

If you are rich enough to afford that and still be able to afford your house, then by all means do it.

 

[jtung230]

Not sure how that's game set and match. It's a debate that can't be settled. The question is if these kids go to a good public, would they be able to get into elite schools? Smart kids are going to do well no matter where they go and average kids will go to average schools. That's what the stats show.

 

[JoeRU0304]

Not sure how that's game set and match. It's a debate that can't be settled. The question is if these kids go to a good public, would they be able to get into elite schools?

Agreed and don't understand how some don't seem to get this. It's highly subjective.

Joe P.

 

[Rutgers81]

Many more private school teachers have advance degrees, they are also have much more flexibility to teach as needed and are not as constrained by government intervention (all forms, local, state, and feds).

This.

 

[Caliknight]

No sarcasm at all- I think that's very impressive. On the same note, I think it would be even more impressive if your school did that while following the same rules and regulations as said public schools.

...at the end of the day though I'm glad both options exist for a number of reasons.


Joe P.

What rules would those be?

 

[JoeRU0304]

...in many ways publics and privates are a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. Privates aren't mandated to provide special education and related services. Private schools also have a selection process and can basically get rid of anyone they want within reason. With those points I would certainly think that private schools would generally send more students to 'upper level' colleges, although I don't think that is the only definition of success. A number of students involved in special education are very capable of going to strong colleges, but for many the intensity of their impairment makes it unrealistic if not an outright impossibility.

What rules would those be?

See above.


Joe P.

 

[JQRU91]

This is really what it comes down to. 100% of my grad class went to 4 year schools, many to what most would say were very good schools. My class was hardly an anomaly. The amount of kids that didn't get into 4 year schools in decade you could count on one hand. I don't know of any public schools who can cite those sort of stats, but I know of many private schools that can.

You're talking about a stacked deck though. For those kids to go to private school, they had to have parents who cared enough to send them and were well-to-do enough to pay for it. That right there is enough to make this an elite subset of students to begin with. I would not be surprised if this bunch would have done similarly well if they had gone to public school. That's not to say there may not have been significant benefits to private school, but what it takes to get there is going to weed out a lot of underperformers and that skews the end results.

 

[JoeRU0304]

I see this as very similar to public and charter/ magnet school discussions. I think all have their place and help make our overall education system great, but doing a 'straight up' comparison in 'contest' fashion is akin to having three bakers making apple pie, apple cobbler and chocolate cake but you declare it to be an apple pie contest after the fact and judge the chocolate cake by how much it tastes like apples.


Joe P.

 

[RUChoppin]

To add, so many times people say that the Top 20 at the local public can compete with anyone. And they can. No argument. But lets dig a little deeper, shall we.

These are Delbarton's placement stats from 2014.

If my mental math is correct, they graduated a 128 kids.

27 went Ivy.

10- Gerogetown
6- ND
4-NYU
3- Duke
3-Michigan
3-Union
1-Williams
1-UVA
1-Chicago
1-Air Force
1-UCLA
1-Berkley

62/128 went what would be considered "elite."

Some other placements were:

10-Nova
7-BC
3-Vanderbilt (could possibly be up above)
3-Lafayette
2-Bucknell
2-Lehigh

Butttttttt, 1 kid went to Farleigh Dickinson so I guess that taints the rest of the results.

When you are placing close to 50% of your graduating class in elite schools, another 30% in schools that we may feel are overrated (Nova, BC), but still have national prestige, I think you're doing your job placement wise.

If you think a kid in the bottom quartile of Marlboro or Ridgewood High is getting into Lehigh, you hit your head...

One thing that is not taken into account is also the starting position of these students. Would the 128 kids who graduated Delbarton have had the same or similar college results had they gone to a different school? Would 128 random students from an average public school (or even a poorly performing school) have had the same or similar results if they had attended Delbarton instead? Do students whose parents are in a financial position to pay $30K+ per year in high school tuition have a higher rate of attending elite universities? Would students who finish in the bottom quartile at Delbarton also finish in the bottom quartile at Marlboro, or would the incoming freshman who finishes that poorly at Delbarton finish much higher in a public school that doesn't have selective admission?

How much is the quality of the sculptor, and how much the quality of the stone?

That's not to say Delbarton (or other private schools) don't add value, it's just not easy to quantify - these 128 kids weren't destined for community college or a GED before enrolling, to suddenly have their lives transformed. Most began at a starting position ahead of the average public school student, and certainly ahead of the bottom quartile of public school students.

 

[mikefla]

Most people have finite resources and fact is MOST cant afford private schools. Those that CAN...god bless them !!!

But can get a good education at any decent public high school IF parents are vigilant and everyone stays focused. Paying for private schools is like paying for 10 extra years of college. God bless you if you can ! But most have to stick with public schools for financial reasons.

Then go to the best university you can afford. In my experience it DOES matter where you went to college. I see my SUNY friends struggling while I see almost NONE of my Ivy friends in trouble. There is definitely a pecking order and it isnt ALL Ivies.........my U Mich, UVA and Duke friends seem to be in pretty good shape as well.

These days its a package...of undergrad and grad school. When I tell people I went undergrad to Cornell and grad school at Rutgers the most oft verbal comment is,,,"wow"

I like my choices,,,and Rutgers(a state school) was a good one !

 

[Knight Shift]

Not sure how that's game set and match. It's a debate that can't be settled. The question is if these kids go to a good public, would they be able to get into elite schools? Smart kids are going to do well no matter where they go and average kids will go to average schools. That's what the stats show.

Except for the really smart kids for which many public schools don't have the resources to provide for them. Another case in point- a colleague was told his son's 7th grade math class in public school would consist of him sitting in a room alone on a computer with no teacher. Not a good learning environment.

 

[miketd1]

The blended learning environment is the future. I don't advocate eliminating teachers, but a combination of teacher led lessons and computer exercises sounds pretty good to me. This would allow for smaller groups and more focused lessons. You could have 2 groups of 20 kids (one an "advanced" group). The computer exercises would tailor difficulty to each child and give live feedback to the teacher as to what concepts need to be reinforced.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

One thing that is not taken into account is also the starting position of these students. Would the 128 kids who graduated Delbarton have had the same or similar college results had they gone to a different school? Would 128 random students from an average public school (or even a poorly performing school) have had the same or similar results? Do students whose parents are in a financial position to pay $30K+ per year in high school tuition have a higher rate of attending elite universities? Would students who finish in the bottom quartile at Delbarton also finish in the bottom quartile at Marlboro, or would the incoming freshman who finishes that poorly at Delbarton finish much higher in a public school that doesn't have selective admission?

How much is the quality of the sculptor, and how much the quality of the stone?

That's not to say Delbarton (or other private schools) don't add value, it's just not easy to quantify - these 128 kids weren't destined for community college or a GED before enrolling, to suddenly have their lives transformed. Most began at a starting position ahead of the average public school student, and certainly ahead of the bottom quartile of public school students.

I don't disagree with any of that. The point is not about their inherent advantages or how smart they were when they showed up to 9th grade orientation. As I've said multiple times, I don't even believe in college placements as the leading selling point for private school. However, these conversations always seem to gravitate to this. Why is $30k "worth it?" One thing that is pretty hard to deny is that people with the means to spend $30k a year on a HS education for their kid are not in the habit of pissing money away--sorta how they have the means to spend $30k a year on HS.

My point in providing the Delbarton placement numbers was to contrast that with the local public HS. Every pro public advocate parrots the same thing. And it goes something like this:

"Well, if you're kid is smart and is in the Top 20 of the local public school, they will get a fine education and place just fine in college."

Ok, fair enough. Manalapan HS (my current hometown) is a group 4 school. Without looking it up, I'd guess they graduate about 600 seniors every year. To make the Top 20 (students, not percent) your kid needs to be in the top 3% of his class. How many kids outside of the Top 20 do you think get into Princeton from Manalapan High? Or Berkley? or UCLA? or Williams? I'm comfortable saying none, unless they are a recruited athlete or a viola prodigy.

On the other hand, you could have been in the top of the 3rd QUARTILE at Delby and ended up at Notre Dame or Hopkins or Lehigh. Without knowing exactly who went where, Delby's ENTIRE Top 20 went Ivy + 7 or 8 more. And BTW, last year was a LOW year for them. In 2013 they sent more than 40 Ivy.

 

[JoeRU0304]

...it could also be said that some of the private school advocates parrot the 'upper-crust' college placements without ever acknowledging the rather large differences in terms of the rules in operation. Hudson, I think you said it well when you said 'not necessarily better, just different'.


Joe P.

 

[greenknight]

A neighbors kid going to Lacordier in Montclair my kid was reading the same books over the summer 3 yrs younger. I've gone to private school 1-12 and it is not worth it

 

[Local Shill]

Ballpark figure of what people that use five-figure private schools make and how much they pay in property taxes?
I'm thinking a buck fifty, minimum.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

...it could also be said that some of the private school advocates parrot the 'upper-crust' college placements without ever acknowledging the rather large differences in terms of the rules in operation. Hudson, I think you said it well when you said 'not necessarily better, just different'.


Joe P.

Because acknowledging the differences is irrelevant.

Saying you can't beat Oho State because they have inherent advantages doesn't materially affect the result on the field.

The point is, if you can beg, borrow or steal your kid's way into Delby, odds are he's going to get into what is considered an "elite" university if he finishes in the top 80% of his class. Contrast that against the idea that if you send him to Marlboro High, he needs to finish in the top 3% for a similar outcome.

Fair is not part of the discussion

 

[RUChoppin]

I don't disagree with any of that. The point is not about their inherent advantages or how smart they were when they showed up to 9th grade orientation. As I've said multiple times, I don't even believe in college placements as the leading selling point for private school. However, these conversations always seem to gravitate to this. Why is $30k "worth it?" One thing that is pretty hard to deny is that people with the means to spend $30k a year on a HS education for their kid are not in the habit of pissing money away--sorta how they have the means to spend $30k a year on HS.

My point in providing the Delbarton placement numbers was to contrast that with the local public HS. Every pro public advocate parrots the same thing. And it goes something like this:

"Well, if you're kid is smart and is in the Top 20 of the local public school, they will get a fine education and place just fine in college."

Ok, fair enough. Manalapan HS (my current hometown) is a group 4 school. Without looking it up, I'd guess they graduate about 600 seniors every year. To make the Top 20 (students, not percent) your kid needs to be in the top 3% of his class. How many kids outside of the Top 20 do you think get into Princeton from Manalapan High? Or Berkley? or UCLA? or Williams? I'm comfortable saying none, unless they are a recruited athlete or a viola prodigy.

On the other hand, you could have been in the top of the 3rd QUARTILE at Delby and ended up at Notre Dame or Hopkins or Lehigh. Without knowing exactly who went where, Delby's ENTIRE Top 20 went Ivy + 7 or 8 more. And BTW, last year was a LOW year for them. In 2013 they sent more than 40 Ivy.

Yes, but that's all just playing with numbers. It's not really meaningful, as it doesn't adjust for all other factors.

Would the 27 students who went Ivy out of Delbarton that year have gone Ivy if they had gone to their local public schools? If not, how many of them would have? 24? 22? What advantage did Delbarton confer on those students that they didn't have going in? Would students who finished in the Top 20% at Delbarton also only have finished in the Top 20% elsewhere, or would they have been in the Top 2% elsewhere? If I took 128 students bound for Irvington High School and sent them to Delbarton instead, how many would be placed in Ivy schools (and how many would be in a position to leverage the connections they made while there)?

I don't deny that private schools offer advantages (not the least of which is networking with students from affluent families that can be drawn upon later in life), but they are hard to quantify. Even if you restrict the view to college placement, if just 1 of those 27 would have ended up at Duke instead of an Ivy school, the parents of that student may feel justified in spending $120K+ to have secured that spot (though their Duke education would have also been good, it again goes back to other intangibles like connections/prestige). The advantages of private school may very well be worth the money in certain situations, but it really would come down to a case by case basis - there's no blanket statement that private school is always the right answer (with the family's finances being a key factor).

If $30K is 2% of your income, it's a very different thing than if it's 30% of your income. As to "pissing money away" comment - those at the highest end of the income scale can afford to spend on luxuries, and often do, even though they aren't absolutely necessary - and they're much more willing to spend much more to get a marginal advantage (e.g. placement at Harvard instead of Cornell, a $75K car instead of a $40K car, several thousand per year to watch 6-7 college football games from the 50 yard line with some friends and park next to the stadium, etc.)

 

[jtung230]

Except for the really smart kids for which many public schools don't have the resources to provide for them. Another case in point- a colleague was told his son's 7th grade math class in public school would consist of him sitting in a room alone on a computer with no teacher. Not a good learning environment.

I don't think that's the situation for good public schools. I'm sure I can find a bad private school and say something bad about it too.

 

[jtung230]

Because acknowledging the differences is irrelevant.

Saying you can't beat Oho State because they have inherent advantages doesn't materially affect the result on the field.

The point is, if you can beg, borrow or steal your kid's way into Delby, odds are he's going to get into what is considered an "elite" university if he finishes in the top 80% of his class. Contrast that against the idea that if you send him to Marlboro High, he needs to finish in the top 3% for a similar outcome.

Fair is not part of the discussion

Didn't some one post the stats? Top 80% goes to "elite"? My wife finished in the top 10% in a public in NJ and she got into NYU. I finished in the top 15% in a public in VA and got into Colgate. The percentages are always going to skew it towards the privates but the number of kids going to "elite" schools are not that far off. I will say that the privates are able to get their top 5% into Ivy schools. If your kid is that smart and you don't want to take any chances, you should spend the money.

 

[Local Shill]

Your major plays a much larger role in future income than what your college degree says. It's just antecdotal evidence, I know, but a childhood friend went to the University of Hartford and probably makes more in a week than I do in a month. Of course, he majored in something business related and I didn't.

I know plenty of other people who went to what I'd consider somewhat inferior schools to RU and also found their way into high-paying fields.
Once you're in the working world and get that first job, no one really gives a shit where you went to college, let alone high school. (Except for trash talking about your alma mater's football team, of course)

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Your major plays a much larger role in future income than what your college degree says. It's just antecdotal evidence, I know, but a childhood friend went to the University of Hartford and probably makes more in a week than I do in a month. Of course, he majored in something business related and I didn't.

I know plenty of other people who went to what I'd consider somewhat inferior schools to RU and also found their way into high-paying fields.
Once you're in the working world and get that first job, no one really gives a shit where you went to college, let alone high school. (Except for trash talking about your alma mater's football team, of course)

Except multiple recent studies contradict that. One of the highest lifetime earning undergraduate majors is philosophy.

Yeah, you can major in accounting and and land a $70k a year job at 23 years old with Deloitte. And if you don't add to your education, you're pretty much assured of earning a very low 6 figure income for life. Certainly not "bad," but you're not getting wealthy anytime soon.

On the other hand, philosophy majors tend to end up in professional graduate schools.

All of which is irrelevant to this conversation. Other than a single Quant heavy major, Princeton doesn't even offer undergraduate business courses. No Finance. No Management. No Accounting. No Marketing. Want to guess at how many of their liberal arts majors take jobs at McKinsey, Bain, Boston Consulting Group or on the Street? It's the Princeton stamp on their diploma, not their major.

 

[Leonard23]

I don't disagree with any of that. The point is not about their inherent advantages or how smart they were when they showed up to 9th grade orientation. As I've said multiple times, I don't even believe in college placements as the leading selling point for private school. However, these conversations always seem to gravitate to this. Why is $30k "worth it?" One thing that is pretty hard to deny is that people with the means to spend $30k a year on a HS education for their kid are not in the habit of pissing money away--sorta how they have the means to spend $30k a year on HS.

My point in providing the Delbarton placement numbers was to contrast that with the local public HS. Every pro public advocate parrots the same thing. And it goes something like this:

"Well, if you're kid is smart and is in the Top 20 of the local public school, they will get a fine education and place just fine in college."

Ok, fair enough. Manalapan HS (my current hometown) is a group 4 school. Without looking it up, I'd guess they graduate about 600 seniors every year. To make the Top 20 (students, not percent) your kid needs to be in the top 3% of his class. How many kids outside of the Top 20 do you think get into Princeton from Manalapan High? Or Berkley? or UCLA? or Williams? I'm comfortable saying none, unless they are a recruited athlete or a viola prodigy.

On the other hand, you could have been in the top of the 3rd QUARTILE at Delby and ended up at Notre Dame or Hopkins or Lehigh. Without knowing exactly who went where, Delby's ENTIRE Top 20 went Ivy + 7 or 8 more. And BTW, last year was a LOW year for them. In 2013 they sent more than 40 Ivy.

Those college statistics, while amazing, aren't relevant to this discussion & are very misleading because Delbarton, Pingry & similar schools are getting the top kids from all over the state & even out of state. I'd guess most if not all of those kids going to Princeton & other Ivies & elite schools still would have been admitted to those schools had they gone to their sending district public school, because they would've been the top 1%-3% there & they care about education & so do their parents. Private & public schools have pros & cons. I've toyed around with the Pingry idea (elementary school kids right now) but haven't pulled the trigger (yet?), as I'm satisfied with our public school gifted program, which clusters the top kids from the entire district in 1 class, keeps them at grade level for social reasons but skips a grade academically, so 2nd graders are doing the 3rd grade curriculum, etc. Unfortunately, that stops in middle school & then you return to gen pop so I don't know what I'll do then & whether AP type of classes would be enough.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Didn't some one post the stats? Top 80% goes to "elite"? My wife finished in the top 10% in a public in NJ and she got into NYU. I finished in the top 15% in a public in VA and got into Colgate. The percentages are always going to skew it towards the privates but the number of kids going to "elite" schools are not that far off. I will say that the privates are able to get their top 5% into Ivy schools. If your kid is that smart and you don't want to take any chances, you should spend the money.

Are you paying attention here?

Delbarton graduated 128 kids last year. 28 of them went Ivy. That ain't "5%."

In recent years, they've sent double digit kids to Princeton. That is unheard of outside of the New England blue blood prep school circuit.

If you approach your kid's high school career as a means of paving the way for the next 4-5 years of their life, you can't argue with the placement records of the top tier privates. Its just like graduating from Harvard Business School. You can finish last in your class and be a total dolt, odds are, you're still gonna die a multi millionaire because of the diploma.

It doesn't make it right or fair or better. It just is.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Those college statistics, while amazing, aren't relevant to this discussion & are very misleading because Delbarton, Pingry & similar schools are getting the top kids from all over the state & even out of state. I'd guess most if not all of those kids going to Princeton & other Ivies & elite schools still would have been admitted to those schools had they gone to their sending district public school, because they would've been the top 1%-3% there & they care about education & so do their parents. Private & public schools have pros & cons. I've toyed around with the Pingry idea (elementary school kids right now) but haven't pulled the trigger (yet?), as I'm satisfied with our public school gifted program, which clusters the top kids from the entire district in 1 class, keeps them at grade level for social reasons but skips a grade academically, so 2nd graders are doing the 3rd grade curriculum, etc. Unfortunately, that stops in middle school & then you return to gen pop so I don't know what I'll do then & whether AP type of classes would be enough.

They aren't misleading. They are Facts. I don't know how else to break it down.

If you are comfortable with the odds of saying that your kid will beat out 600 other kids and finish in the top 3% of his senior class at the public and still battle the reputational hurdles that exist in all but the most distinct public districts, go ahead.

What I'm saying is that if your kid gets into Delbarton, and once there is simply AVERAGE, he will end up in a Top 25 university.

You may or may not give a shit. Personally, I'm not making the decision to send my kids to Jersey City from Monmouth County based on greasing the skids into Georgetown or Hopkins or any of the other elites that SPP has a pipeline to. That isn't my personal reason for making the decision. But this conversation, when had here, always reverts to "if they are smart, they will get into their dream school if they stay home anyway." The statistics suggest that they will have a much tougher road. But Godspeed....