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anon_ivydyf0amkzay
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This thread really has it all…a shit-ton of opinions that send my eyes into mega eye roll… but fascinating nonetheless.
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OT: RIP Anne Heche
- Thread starter Knight Shift
- Start date
Another reason I don't like transgenderism being included in the movement is because it has revived the false idea that gay men want to be women and gay women want to be men, which I assure is utterly false. I also do not like how the Woke Mobs took up the cause some years ago: by falsely convincing everyone that the gay rights movement was started by transgendered women of color who were fighting for rights while white gay men just partied, something I know is not true because I lived a part of it myself.
It's a Millenial thing: they somehow think that attacking their own is a way to move forward, they like to flatter themselves about how Woke they are (just like Bible thumpers think they're less sinful than everyone else they judge) and don't feel the need to show respect or gratitude to people who paved the way for them. I despise Woke Mobs and think their terrible tactics are greatly harming their/our causes: a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. I recently put up a post on Facebook saying I don't think tattoos look good on women and people I had never heard from before came out of the woodwork to attack me and fish further: "is it because tattoos are associated with working class women," hoping to be able to attack me for classism as well as sexism. But the right is the same way: people on this board try to gang up on me in the same way Woke Mobs attack people, so they are certainly in no position to complain. It's amazing how they come out of the woodwork. They were doing it many years ago already all over the internet.
Maybe stop with the judgment and move on with your life. You can just look the other way and not say anything, unless it is somehow directly impacting you.
Kind of like a more extreme version of not sitting in the designated Rutgers ticket section for the BC and other visiting games and not sitting with the Rutgers fans in that section. You do your thing, and others will do their thing. It's a big stadium and a big world. Plenty of room for different types.
oh stop, he's not being judgemental, he's expressing and opinion that is widely held albeit quietly coming more to the surface. There is a LOT of insanity in what's happening here and it does impact everyone. Just look at how the insanity has wormed it's way into education, media, etc etc.. Outliers are just that, not mainstream as the 1-2% wish it to be.
BRG made some great points and if you read his responses, he all but agrees it's gone too far and is misguided. For God's sake you have 2 schools in NJ that have litter boxes in schools for the 'cat kids' It is insane
Well when you're forced to use butchered, improper English to make some mentally ill person happy or lose your job it does get a little harder to just move on with your life whilest unemployed.
Otherwise you're preaching to the choir.
Leave us in peace, keep your bedroom activities there and don't tell us about them and everyone will be a lot better off. But that seem to be too much to ask. Hence the conflict.
Mentally ill would not be a phrase I would use, but we can differ here. Maybe @MrsScrew did/did not tell you about a long conversation we had at the RU gathering at the bar in Jacksonville. No need to post details of that here.
IMO, gender dysphoria is not a mental illness. Not many sane people would open themselves up to the discrimination, bigotry, hatred and ridicule spewed at transgender people.
I happen to be very close to a couple of transgender people, who came out as transgender during adulthood. Both are highly accomplished, smart and successful people. Neither are "in your face" about being transgender, and they are lovely and fun people to hang out with. I am proud to have them in my life. I have always been the type of person who likes to push boundaries, and I have never given a flying F about what people think. I respect people for who they are, and if they treat me with love and respect, then they get the same in return. What they do in their private lives and makes them happy is their business. There is too much hatred and bigotry in this world, and I don't want to add to it. I spend enough negative energy hating Penn State.
Are there issues that cause problems and slippery slopes? Sure. I definitely see how this can be difficult for females and parents of females when it comes to athletics. But those issues don't concern me, and hopefully, as @brgRC90 eloquently stated, society will find a way to work their way through these issues. Still, in my view, no need to cast stones at all transgender people. Just like any other type of person, they don't all agree on the various issues presented.
On mentally I'll we can agree to disagree. But you responded to my post without addressing any of my points.
Live and let live is supposed to be a two way street.
OK- point by point:
1. Who is forcing anyone to use butchered, improper English? What is being butchered, and what English is improper? Lose your job? Where? Why? How many times at work do you have to do something you don't want to do to keep your job? Or say things to the boss, a customer or a client that you don't want to say, but you want to keep your job, the customer or the client. It's part of getting along. IDK, seems to be picking on a particular issue when we have to make compromises all the time. I get more riled up by difficult people at work, customers or clients, but hold my tongue because it's not worth the strife.
2. Not sure what you mean by preaching to the choir.
3. The transgender people I am close with don't talk about their bedroom activities. You want someone who has gender dysphoria to not say they identify with the sex opposite of their birth around you because it makes you uncomfortable? IDK, to me it's not that big of a deal to accept someone for who they are.
Not trying to sound preachy or anything, but I'm not seeing any of these things as being a big deal. But we all react to these things differently.
There is a debate among psychiatrists whether bigotry and homophobia are mental disorders.
"Some individuals with pathological bigotry are frankly delusional, perceive themselves as "under attack," and become overtly dangerous to themselves or others."
Is Bigotry a Mental Illness?
There were only 3 Jewish students in my high school, and I was one of them. In the small, western New York town where I grew up, most people were tolerant. But a small clique of anti-Semites made life tough for us Jewish kids. Most of the time, we just shrugged off the jokes and insults or came...
www.psychiatrictimes.com
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Can’t say you’re right or wrong, but feel it’s not a mental disorder.
Think the way people act sometimes make it into a problem
>Being transgender is not a mental illness. But people who are transgender face unique challenges, such as gender dysphoria and discrimination, which can affect their mental health.<
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/21963-transgender-ensuring-mental-health
How about I CHOOSE to do whatever I'd like? Last time I checked we live in The United States of America, NOT The USSR, right? Thank you!
You are pretty darn good about telling people how to think and what they should do. Not looking to start a war. But you were the one who wanted to stop the insanity, whatever that meant.
Do what you will, think what you like.
It seems like no one's trying to stop you for expressing your POV , only discussing how they feel about it.
Do you deny them the right to reply to what you say ????
I'm not telling anyone else what to "think" or "do." I've actually said multiple times in this thread, IIRC, that others are welcome to have their own opinion. All good my friend.
I have done NO such thing lol! Everyone is more than welcome to feel how they would like about this topic. Doesn't mean I'm not going to respond in kind.
I wouldn't say bigotry in general is delusional but it seems that when a lot of people are presented with the possibility of no longer being able to marginalize and abuse a disliked minority they overreact, some to the point of weirdness. They seem to feel entitled to mistreat others, and if others take them to task for it they think they are being silenced and bullied; in reality their lives are not being impacted except that they can no longer easily abuse others. Exactly how is transgendered people being more visible harming the people who make so much noise about it? What they're really upset about is the loss of their ability to marginalize people anymore. ("I don't want to have to see that!", "I don't care what you do just do it behind closed doors." "There's a gay pride march once a year. My eyes are burning!" They want people in the shadows.) There is an irony in a lot of bigoted people complaining about being bullied by Woke Mobs (which I disagree with greatly because nobody likes a bully coming from any direction) because they themselves have bullied others for years, helped to ruin their lives even. Usually they are oblivious to this reality.There is a debate among psychiatrists debating whether bigotry and homophobia are mental disorders.
"Some individuals with pathological bigotry are frankly delusional, perceive themselves as "under attack," and become overtly dangerous to themselves or others."
Is Bigotry a Mental Illness?
There were only 3 Jewish students in my high school, and I was one of them. In the small, western New York town where I grew up, most people were tolerant. But a small clique of anti-Semites made life tough for us Jewish kids. Most of the time, we just shrugged off the jokes and insults or came...www.psychiatrictimes.com
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BTW - I very clearly stated that I have ZERO issue with what people choose to do with their lives, bodies, etc...I don't "judge" at all! I'm talking about the FACT that there are, "follow the science," ONLY 2 natural genders. Period.
@brgRC90 I have one question:
I remember couple of years back a book that was put out regarding transgenderism and how, specifically among young teenage girls, IIRC, they are finding it in "clusters" which would negate the "it's genetic" thought process. Your thoughts on this? Just curious, thanks!
I remember couple of years back a book that was put out regarding transgenderism and how, specifically among young teenage girls, IIRC, they are finding it in "clusters" which would negate the "it's genetic" thought process. Your thoughts on this? Just curious, thanks!
Here’s an opposing viewpoint
>Contrary to popular belief, scientific research helps us better understand the unique and real transgender experience. Specifically, through three subjects: (1) genetics, (2) neurobiology and (3) endocrinology.<
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/
That is hotly debated right now.
Europe, I believe the Netherlands, has been the epicenter for treatment of children and teens with gender dysphoria. Recently (last 4-8 weeks), the New York Times (which is always a questionable source to me) had an article (maybe it was more of an opinion piece) on the appropriate standard of care for children and teens with gender dysphoria. Not sure if it was the NYT piece or some other article that referred to clusters or it becoming fashionable or cool to declare oneself bi or transgender. This is one area that is highly controversial and worthy of further discussion/debate, which is difficult on such a sensitive topic. Nonetheless, reasoned debate on both sides of the issue is sorely needed.
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Agree with "reasoned debate on both sides of the issue is sorely needed."
As for "becoming fashionable or cool to declare oneself bi or transgender."
I have thought that after hearing some make claims.
This is an issue that brings makes one wonder and realize there might be a simple answer hidden somewhere or just so complicated of an issue that both sides will fight tooth and nail over.
Because the proof is not strong enough that it can be taken as gospel, but strong enough that it's hard to disprove.
This is exactly what I'm getting at with the "clusters" issue. If it's such a rare thing why are they finding 2-4 girls in the SAME CLASS (like, at the same school not just "all of the state") declaring themselves "transgender?" That makes a ton less than "zero" sense, scientifically, is my uneducated guess.
Perhaps this is the paper that used the terms and phrases:
"rapid onset gender dysphoria" (ROGD), "socially contagious,"
Interesting move by Brown University: "She added that people in the Brown community have raised concerns that the study's conclusions "could be used to discredit efforts to support transgender youth and invalidate the perspectives of members of the transgender community.""
"The actions by the journal and the university have infuriated some researchers who say the moves trample academic freedom, although the paper remains freely available."
"The most explosive of Littman's findings may be that among the young people reported on—83% of whom were designated female at birth—more than one-third had friendship groups in which 50% or more of the youths began to identify as transgender in a similar time frame." "Littman hypothesizes that "social contagion" may be a key driver of the purportedly rapid onset dysphoria."
Science | AAAS
www.science.org
For any parent who has teenage children or raised them to adulthood, they are aware how difficult rational discussion (and sometimes any discussion) can be on sensitive topics, particularly sex and sexuality.
As far as Brown University, thought that Universities should be places were different thoughts and perspectives and shared and debated. "Could be used" is a thin reed to stifle a publication.
I can't comment on the book since I never read it. All of this stuff, gender and sexuality, is very complicated and not well-understood. I studied it for years as part of my psychology degree. It's a combination of nature and nurture--interior forces and external forces, genes and upbringing. People on both left and right get way too obsessed with the exterior, sociological explanation: they believe societal forces shape everything so they fixate on them and want to control them. This is why many conservatives fret over broad acceptance of transgenderism. They seem to think the gender identity of an awful lot of people is so weak and easily molded by society that acceptance and openness towards transgenderism will cause legions of people to run to a surgeon--contrary to all evidence. This is why people on the left think that people being so attracted to lean, muscular bodies and not overweight ones is caused by the media and not something innate--despite the fact that statues from ancient civilizations like Egypt and Greece show their gods and heroes as lean and muscular not heavy. Can't blame Hollywood for that. Society influences people a lot but so do their insides.
Sociology is the study of how people are impacted by society. The great weakness of sociology is that it can't explain different outcomes with similar sociological conditions: two kids grow up in a poor house, one becomes a doctor, one becomes a criminal. If poverty causes crime why did one kid become a doctor? There has to be something different inside those two kids that explains it. Poverty is a factor but it's not enough of an explanation.
Gender almost certainly is heavily determined by innate factors but that's not well understood. There are apparently 800 genetic pathways to gender. A lot of genes are involved and they all have to work right. Of course sometimes that doesn't happen.
Because it takes a lot of courage as a kid to come out as transgender. Once the first one does it others often feel more free to speak up.
In other places just because no student has come out it doesn’t mean no one is transgender.
Gender is not complicated. The mind may be to an extent but gender is not complicated. Transexualism is a mental disorder. The very same scientific research used to secure normalicy for these people in need of help, was recently used by attnys to defend pedophiles. Its a sickness and disorder
Nobody is saying it doesn't take "courage" to do so, HOWEVER, the odds of all these "clusters" occurring as such (mainly here in the U.S.A.) are beyond astronomical and THAT is the point of questioning ( "genetic or social") this aspect of transgenderism. Again, be yourself, but something is off more than "a tad" it would appear.
This apparently was only one study, which specified gender dysphoria in adolescence as opposed to early childhood--"rapid onset gender dysphoria." It involved the reports of parents versus the actions of psychologists/psychiatrists so certainly has to be taken with a grain of salt.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I was taught that 50% of people who say they are transgender are actually paranoid schizophrenics who merely think they are. Schizophrenia tends to show up first in the teen years, the age of kids in the study, so it would seem there is every possibility that some kids in the study identified as transgender are actually schizophrenics. I'm not sure the study took this into account at all. Transgender activists themselves don't seem to be taking this into account, either. Believing someone implicitly when they say they are transgender, which is being pushed for, overlooks the fact that some people with mental illness can slip through the cracks if not forced to see a professional. That's not helpful to them.
It is said that God gave us two eyes and two ears but only one mouth so that we would spend more time learning, watching and hearing rather than speaking. But God overlooked giving man ten fingers and a keyboard.
A lot of people just want to believe what they want to believe and will never change their minds no matter what evidence comes along. I can't tell you how many people try to lecture me about fascism/Nazism, a subject I've studied for years, who 1. clearly know nothing about the subject 2. know they've never studied it and yet think they can argue with me when I tell them something that contradicts what they're saying. Many people are unable change their minds and are unable to admit they're wrong even just to themselves. Such people will not listen right from the start unless you're telling them what they want to hear.
Ahhh so you’re only allowed to look at this topic from the viewpoint that YOU agree with, got it, thx!
I actually feel that I’m not only being open and honest, throughout this thread, but fairly balanced.
Hey!! Did you guys hear? Anne Heche went crazy fast, crashed her car into a house, and died!!
He also failed to address your point on clusters which, if true, supports your assertion.
also there are people that don't really understand the issue, just think how they look at it is the only way it should be viewed.
People who have no familiarity with a subject really need to stop acting like they're experts. People with no study whatsoever in gender, human sexuality or transgenderism really look absurd coming off as experts. I have a degree in psychology: you spend many hours studying what is known and not known about psychosexual development--and among the most important things you learn is that much is NOT known. Yet football fans on a bulletin board have it all figured out! I'm sorry but it's laughable. And this is why haughty intellectuals often look down their noses at people who think they're experts. They're talking out of their a** yet they will fight to the bitter end because they think they're right. If you don't want to be laughed at by pointy headed liberals don't be a know-it-all.
