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OT: Sean Miller and AZ are screwed

I do not know how any of this will be resolved. What I do know is that cheating in recruiting, including paying players, has been going on consistently since the 1950s. The only thing that has changed is the amount of money being paid, and the fact that we now know a lot more due to advances in technology.

The challenge for those who desire to effectively clean up college basketball is the premise that you are cleaning up college athletics. That is actually not an accurate appraisal. That might have been the case decades ago. Now, however, folks would be seeking to clean up an entertainment industry - which is what college basketball has become. It is a multi billion dollar business. The colleges are no longer in control. I strongly doubt anyone with the ability to do so is going to substantially penalize the blue bloods and other high level schools who contribute in a material fashion to this multi-billion dollar industry. There is simply too much money at stake, and the industry cannot be financially supported by the modest sized schools who do not cheat (and make no mistake about it, schools at all levels cheat in a significant fashion).

Some assert paying players is the answer. I am a long time advocate in paying the players, but I acknowledge all of the complex issues associated with doing so. Moreover, unless you are permitted to pay players whatever you desire, there will always be cheating because schools will still be willing to pay more than is allowed to obtain the services of certain players.

The cheating is emblematic of other negative societal issues. I am simply skeptical that a multi billion dollar industry is going to be shattered because schools cheat at recruiting. There will be some slaps on the wrist, schools may lose titles they won in the past (does anyone really care), and there may be some well intentioned, but impractical, efforts made to modify rules. At the end of the day I do not envision any truly meaningful change.
 
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Yahoo! Sports’ Pat Forde: “I think there is a lot of dispute about the ESPN report. There was nothing in the documents we reviewed that implicated Sean Miller.”

That's from an interview with Forde on ESPN 680AM/Louisville.
 
Regardless of what happens essentially all of Millers assistants have been implicated.
 
Including Phelps?

When the majority of the coaching staff is involved he is guilty by association at this point as they all work in cohesion. Plus Munish Sood worked with 2 Arizona assistants before last years PAC 12 Tourney.
 
When the majority of the coaching staff is involved he is guilty by association at this point as they all work in cohesion. Plus Munish Sood worked with 2 Arizona assistants before last years PAC 12 Tourney.
That guilty by association doesn't appear to have impacted David Padgett at Louisville
 
Louisville? Look who that school had coaching basketball and football. Rick Pitino was a disgrace.
 
I do not know how any of this will be resolved. What I do know is that cheating in recruiting, including paying players, has been going on consistently since the 1950s. The only thing that has changed is the amount of money being paid, and the fact that we now know a lot more due to advances in technology.

The challenge for those who desire to effectively clean up college basketball is the premise that you are cleaning up college athletics. That is actually not an accurate appraisal. That might have been the case decades ago. Now, however, folks would be seeking to clean up an entertainment industry - which is what college basketball has become. It is a multi billion dollar business. The colleges are no longer in control. I strongly doubt anyone with the ability to do so is going to substantially penalize the blue bloods and other high level schools who contribute in a material fashion to this multi-billion dollar industry. There is simply too much money at stake, and the industry cannot be financially supported by the modest sized schools who do not cheat (and make no mistake about it, schools at all levels cheat in a significant fashion).

Some assert paying players is the answer. I am a long time advocate in paying the players, but I acknowledge all of the complex issues associated with doing so. Moreover, unless you are permitted to pay players whatever you desire, there will always be cheating because schools will still be willing to pay more than is allowed to obtain the services of certain players.

The cheating is emblematic of other negative societal issues. I am simply skeptical that a multi billion dollar industry is going to be shattered because schools cheat at recruiting. There will be some slaps on the wrist, schools may lose titles they won in the past (does anyone really care), and there may be some well intentioned, but impractical, efforts made to modify rules. At the end of the day I do not envision any truly meaningful change.

Make the NBA responsible for developing players who have no interest in attending college beyond playing basketball. Just like the MLB and European Soccer and Basketball Federations do it. No more 1 and done. At a minimum college should be a three year commitment with steady progress toward a degree a requirement for the athlete to retain eligibility. That is the distinction in the NFL/College Football arrangement. Not ideal but better than basketball. If too many athletes flounder and flunk out the school gets penalized. I know some of this exists but needs to be emphasized with greater incentives to comply.
 
Louisville? Look who that school had coaching basketball and football. Rick Pitino was a disgrace.
I'm not disputing that.

Another poster made a guilt by association comment and I simply pointed out that guilty by association doesn't appear to have impacted David Padgett at Louisville. You actually kind of reinforced my point, so thanks.
 
Yahoo! Sports’ Pat Forde: “I think there is a lot of dispute about the ESPN report. There was nothing in the documents we reviewed that implicated Sean Miller.”

That's from an interview with Forde on ESPN 680AM/Louisville.
Didn't stop ESPN from splashing it all over the place without knowing the context of the documents or the conversation on the tape, or even hearing it. There may be a fire amidst all this smoke, but the "reporting" so far seems to be more about dropping names and providing fuel for the outrage machine than doing any real reporting. There is an interesting perspective on this from Mark Titus at The Ringer:

All of this information is getting leaked through back channels.

Basically, this point boils down to “consider the source.” Because the information obtained by Yahoo and ESPN is part of an ongoing trial—the U.S. attorney’s office charged Dawkins with three counts of wire fraud and one count of money-laundering conspiracy in September, and charged former Arizona assistant coach Emanuel “Book” Richardson with bribery and fraud—it had to have come from one of four places: the FBI, the judge or court overseeing each respective trial, somebody representing the prosecution, or somebody in the camps of the defendants. Given the timing and nature of the information, it’s a solid bet that in both reports, the source is the fourth of four options. While that doesn’t necessarily mean that bullshit detectors should be going off, it’s at least important to remember that the people releasing this information probably have an agenda.
 
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Quick story about Tricky Ricky. When Donyell Marshall was being recruited by UCONN and Kentucky I had a friend from church from Reading PA like Marshall was from. My friend would say that is not the only thing Pitino is chasing. At the time I was like Ok. Later on understood his meaning.
 
https://maryland.247sports.com/Arti...iting-Tactics-Revealed-in-FBI-Probe-115669108


“As a coach, all you want is a level playing field,” Williams said. “You want to go out and play against guys that have recruited like you have, or whatever, and if they get the best players then they beat you because they were better recruiters than you were. That’s fine. But don’t tell me a guy’s a great recruiter because I know he’s paying money. That used to drive me nuts. ‘Well how come you didn’t get this kid?’ Well, he gave him $50,000. That’s why I didn’t get the kid. And you can’t say that. It’s a coaches thing. When has a coach squealed on another coach?”
 
https://maryland.247sports.com/Arti...iting-Tactics-Revealed-in-FBI-Probe-115669108


“As a coach, all you want is a level playing field,” Williams said. “You want to go out and play against guys that have recruited like you have, or whatever, and if they get the best players then they beat you because they were better recruiters than you were. That’s fine. But don’t tell me a guy’s a great recruiter because I know he’s paying money. That used to drive me nuts. ‘Well how come you didn’t get this kid?’ Well, he gave him $50,000. That’s why I didn’t get the kid. And you can’t say that. It’s a coaches thing. When has a coach squealed on another coach?”
Gary Williams is AWESOME.
Bruce Pearl is the answer to his question.
 
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Cheating in MBB is de rigueur -- but the coach cheating (on tape!) has to be death........
 
https://maryland.247sports.com/Arti...iting-Tactics-Revealed-in-FBI-Probe-115669108


“As a coach, all you want is a level playing field,” Williams said. “You want to go out and play against guys that have recruited like you have, or whatever, and if they get the best players then they beat you because they were better recruiters than you were. That’s fine. But don’t tell me a guy’s a great recruiter because I know he’s paying money. That used to drive me nuts. ‘Well how come you didn’t get this kid?’ Well, he gave him $50,000. That’s why I didn’t get the kid. And you can’t say that. It’s a coaches thing. When has a coach squealed on another coach?”
Always respected Gary. Didn't play the game and got ran out because of it.
 
I am thinking there is more substance than what has been released since he did not coach last night. I have to admit to being shocked that Ayton(sp) played last night. I know there are quotes from a lawyer representing the family saying the reports were false but...

Finally Mark Fox from UGA and Randy Edsall from UConn have my respect for speaking out indicating that this is an opportunity to clean things up in both sports.

Remember that Newt Gingrich lambasted Clinton for affairs while he was also having an affair. I'm not saying HCRE is cheating. But someone speaking out against other cheaters does not automatically preclude them from also cheating.
 
So watching last nights game and the TV focusing on Richard Pitino
I wanted a cartoon baloon to pop up above his head with
"Dad should have told me it was so hard to win without the hookers and blow"
 
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Always respected Gary. Didn't play the game and got ran out because of it.

Gary was respected in college basketball because of his integrity. People knew he did not recruit by being unethical.

While guys like C-note (calhoun) had no morals, he stuck to his ethics knowing full well it cost him Final Fours. At least he got his NC doing it the right way.

Calhoun will forever be known as a cheater among his peers. Scumbag.

Calhoun and Uconvicts though had karma waiting. What conf do they play in now? Irrelevant forever. lol at them. Glad K/ACC buried him.

Guys like Calhoun and Boeheim (paid carmelo) were biggest cheaters in cbball and both have sanctions. Gary never did. A coach's coach and a man with ethics who never played this shady game.
 
Gary was respected in college basketball because of his integrity. People knew he did not recruit by being unethical.

While guys like C-note (calhoun) had no morals, he stuck to his ethics knowing full well it cost him Final Fours. At least he got his NC doing it the right way.

Calhoun will forever be known as a cheater among his peers. Scumbag.

Calhoun and Uconvicts though had karma waiting. What conf do they play in now? Irrelevant forever. lol at them. Glad K/ACC buried him.

Guys like Calhoun and Boeheim (paid carmelo) were biggest cheaters in cbball and both have sanctions. Gary never did. A coach's coach and a man with ethics who never played this shady game.

And he's a Jersey guy too!
 
Sean Miller finally speaks in public and denied everything. Guess he had some nice long talks with his lawyers to see what he was up against before saying something.
 
Well it looks like AZ is taking the NC approach to scandal. It's the new normal I guess.
 
And he's a Jersey guy too!

GARY loved ....loved..did I say loved? NJ. I have MD's family and have friends at RU and MD (other schools like USC).

But Gary loves to talk about his tough gritty NJ roots. IMO someone in NJ should hire him as a PR guy. I can tell you he brought millions to UMD as a fundraiser with powerful alumni and built the arenas and educational scholarships...did way too much.

Now UMD merger will put it in Top 10 in research dollars in the country coming years (with some big time names like Hopkins and MIT). And SAT average is zooming up to UC Berkley level. Insane. Many point to him helping the university raising its profile. Godsend for UMD.

. The day he is gone, he will go a NJ guy and his head held high. I see alot of NJ old school in him and its obvious. He talks about it too. Great man.

Did it the right way unlike that scum cheater Calhoun. Karma rocked him good.
 
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Williams accomplished a lot, but Maryland is a hoops school with a very strong history. They won before he got there, and they will win after he is gone. He is an important piece of their history though.
 
Miller is going to be coaching the Wildcats Thursday and the UofA board of regents and Arizona's President
said :
"We expect Coach Miller to be on the sidelines coaching the team tonight and for the remainder of the season," .
He also stated
:"I believe that if the FBI had evidence Coach Miller had done anything wrong, you would have seen him indicted."
Arizona Board of Regents meeting: Sean Miller will stay as UA coach
https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...miller-ncaa-basketball-espn-report/386170002/
 
Miller is going to be coaching the Wildcats Thursday and the UofA board of regents and Arizona's President
said :
"We expect Coach Miller to be on the sidelines coaching the team tonight and for the remainder of the season," .
He also stated
:"I believe that if the FBI had evidence Coach Miller had done anything wrong, you would have seen him indicted."
Arizona Board of Regents meeting: Sean Miller will stay as UA coach
https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...miller-ncaa-basketball-espn-report/386170002/

Typical cesspool.

UNC skated by. So did UCONN, Cuse, Lville. Sad that it pays to cheat in this sport.
 
Williams accomplished a lot, but Maryland is a hoops school with a very strong history. They won before he got there, and they will win after he is gone. He is an important piece of their history though.

I think the new UMD Admin does not care too much about sports from what I have heard. They want to be good but never have any violations or cheat like UNC, Zona, UCOnn, Cuse etc in bball.

The reason is simple: academics. UMD's is on the cusp of major mergers and its academic profile is rising very fast. Google founder to OCulus to development. Now you have avg SAT scores that rivals the best of the best in public schools like Berkeley in coming years. The shift is dramatic.

They want no blemishes or cheating and dont care to join those ranks. The UMD Admin wants to be good enough. No reason to cheat and win likes the best.

But Turgeon should be fired. He just is mediocre.
 
Typical cesspool.

UNC skated by. So did UCONN, Cuse, Lville. Sad that it pays to cheat in this sport.
I'll give you UNC, UConn, Cuse and Louisville since there is actual evidence of rules violations (despite the NCAA's decision in the UNC case) but what is the evidence against Sean Miller?
 
I'll give you UNC, UConn, Cuse and Louisville since there is actual evidence of rules violations (despite the NCAA's decision in the UNC case) but what is the evidence against Sean Miller?
It's starting to look like there isn't any.
 
It's starting to look like there isn't any.

LOL. As someone who knows more than a few AAU coaches in SoCal, Miller is #1 cheater. Just because he knows how to clean up his tracks does not mean ANYTHING. The guy is slick to the max. There are goodfellas in NJ over decades who are infamous and clean to clean up. Are they criminals if not caught?

Would you like me to forward you names of AAU coaches in SoCal who know his tactics well? Come on down. Of course they benefit too. No snitches.

I dont blame Miller...the culture is pervasive. I have no fight vs. Miller or Zona.

I mean for crissakes K / ratface paid through handlers. Start with Duhon and that was when K had MANY NCs.

AAU is dirt and the HC will have hand out. Always.

Miller not being a cheat is like saying Pope is no catholic. Seriously!
 
The NCAA is the most corrupt organization out there. They exploit kids to make money off them. Unfortunately, now most schools are so vested in making money off sports that anything like a death sentence would be hard to any college budget.
 
The NCAA is the most corrupt organization out there. They exploit kids to make money off them. Unfortunately, now most schools are so vested in making money off sports that anything like a death sentence would be hard to any college budget.

This +1000 million times.

NCAA protects cheaters and then acts stunned when the real authority moved in.

What a joke.
 
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Hmmm, the fact that Miller admits that he spoke about money for another player.......

“Miller faces far greater risks. He claimed he has diligently adhered to a culture of compliance at Arizona, even though his top assistant coach is in jail. He made it clear that he never discussed buying Ayton’s services but had a conversation with a sports agency regarding payment for a different player who didn’t choose Arizona.”

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...etball-fans-shouldnt-celebrate-yet/387547002/
 
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Hmmm, the fact that Miller admits that he spoke about money for another player.......

“Miller faces far greater risks. He claimed he has diligently adhered to a culture of compliance at Arizona, even though his top assistant coach is in jail. He made it clear that he never discussed buying Ayton’s services but had a conversation with a sports agency regarding payment for a different player who didn’t choose Arizona.”

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...etball-fans-shouldnt-celebrate-yet/387547002/
I noticed that he admitted to a money conversation with an agency regarding another player. That could have been the agency employee calling to offer money to get a kid and Miller saying no. Whose to know really? It was smart of him to get that out there. Control the message of sorts, but it would be really good if that is the case AND he notified, in writing, his AD about the conversation.

Let's face it, in the court of public opinion he is guilty, he is dirty, he should go.

Yet the public has not seen/heard any evidence.

Interesting developments.
 
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