OT: Shooting Near Rutgers

[NotInRHouse]

There is "doing your job" and there is doing your job. We are all familiar with people who perform well enough not to get fired but who don't take the extra step. My sense is that many police officers have become this way. It is a terribly hard and dangerous job, and officers are not going to take chances if they don't feel publicly supported. The problem occurs another way: it is increasingly difficult for police departments to fill vacancies because the job does not command the respect that it once did.

Remember too it's much harder to fire cops. It took years to fire the one who did the illegal chokehold on Eric Gardner. Meanwhile, someone in the private sector you can mostly can without consequence.

Not to mention that in literally every other profession in America, you are not considered to be entirely above public scrutiny in the eyes of 30% of the public. Imagine doctors protesting because one was fired for leaving a sponge in a patient, or lawyers going on strike because one was fired for missing a SOL. Better yet imagine the reaction from the "police are infallible" crowd if a teacher refused to teach! We'd never accept that, but should accept cops flagrantly lying and not keeping us safe? That is the issue.

 

[NotInRHouse]

While I think there is some truth to this and there are good police who feel hamstrung and they can’t do their job…I found the New Brunswick police department during my time on campus (2007 to 2011) to be lazy and way more interested in breaking up college parties / writing tickets than interested in fighting crime.

And when they had “boots on the ground” they would basically just have 2-4 cops standing on busy corners (i.e outside Geovanelli’s on Easton) late night doing absolutely nothing except showing a presence.

The next person to tell me they had a great experience with NBPD would be the first. I don't think I've heard one.

 

[NotInRHouse]

You don't have a clue about what you are spouting off about. Badmouth the police, and you would be the first one to cry for their help like a whiny little baby. It's very telling who keeps liking your posts. You reap what you sow when the libs tie the hands of the police in multiple ways.

Please tell us which laws in NJ or NB have hamstrung them.

Retired cited to the law to show the cops absolutely could have chased these criminals. Where is your countervailing authority?

We all saw what happened when the parents in Uvalde cried for help, right? They were arrested as their children were massacred.

I would love to hear the story of someone who called NBPD and got help. Anyone?

 

[LETSGORU91]

I would love to hear the story of someone who called NBPD and got help. Anyone?

Well, back in the day and during a pledge coordinated kidnapping of a then, current brother, some people happened to notice the "abduction" and called 911. NBPD was one of a large handful of PDs to respond....unfortunately.

 

[SF88]

No complaints about the NBPD. They have responded whenever called. They made this arrest in a few days. The slow degradation of laws the PD have at their disposal to confront or accost folks, is the problem. God forbid you're pulled over cause you drive the same make/model of a vehicle involved in a crime. A simple ordinance violation such a loitering has been taken away. The cops know who the bad guys are. IMO, the vast majority of them are good cops, trying to keep the streets safe. It's frustrating when a guy is caught shitting on your building and nothing happens. He's processed and out on the street in a few hours. He never shows up for a court date. These guys have nothing to lose. Many of these issue are " quality of life " type things, but nothing happens. They don't have $$ to pay fines. How about going away for a long time after the 1st carjacking, 2nd stolen vehicle/riding in stolen vehicle. How about I don't care if you're 15.

The guy choked on the subway by the marine had 42 arrests, including 3 unprovoked assaults on females. Why is that guy even on the street. How about the guy who killed the cop in Queens a couple weeks ago. Was in/out of prison with 21 arrests including a gun charge last year. Mayor Adams asked why he is on the street. this is the frustration. Why does it take the RU student in her window, almost paralyzed, for us to show some outrage? My kid lives a block away on Easton. It could have been him.

 

[Knight Shift]

Remember too it's much harder to fire cops. It took years to fire the one who did the illegal chokehold on Eric Gardner. Meanwhile, someone in the private sector you can mostly can without consequence.

Not to mention that in literally every other profession in America, you are not considered to be entirely above public scrutiny in the eyes of 30% of the public. Imagine doctors protesting because one was fired for leaving a sponge in a patient, or lawyers going on strike because one was fired for missing a SOL. Better yet imagine the reaction from the "police are infallible" crowd if a teacher refused to teach! We'd never accept that, but should accept cops flagrantly lying and not keeping us safe? That is the issue.

That is literally not the issue here.

The next person to tell me they had a great experience with NBPD would be the first. I don't think I've heard one.

One below. I have had multiple. Too many to list. You reap what you sow.

No complaints about the NBPD. They have responded whenever called. They made this arrest in a few days. The slow degradation of laws the PD have at their disposal to confront or accost folks, is the problem. God forbid you're pulled over cause you drive the same make/model of a vehicle involved in a crime. A simple ordinance violation such a loitering has been taken away. The cops know who the bad guys are. IMO, the vast majority of them are good cops, trying to keep the streets safe. It's frustrating when a guy is caught shitting on your building and nothing happens. He's processed and out on the street in a few hours. He never shows up for a court date. These guys have nothing to lose. Many of these issue are " quality of life " type things, but nothing happens. They don't have $$ to pay fines. How about going away for a long time after the 1st carjacking, 2nd stolen vehicle/riding in stolen vehicle. How about I don't care if you're 15.

The guy choked on the subway by the marine had 42 arrests, including 3 unprovoked assaults on females. Why is that guy even on the street. How about the guy who killed the cop in Queens a couple weeks ago. Was in/out of prison with 21 arrests including a gun charge last year. Mayor Adams asked why he is on the street. this is the frustration. Why does it take the RU student in her window, almost paralyzed, for us to show some outrage? My kid lives a block away on Easton. It could have been him.

NIRH will be upset that the guy choked on the subway had his rights violated.

 

[RUBOB72]

No complaints about the NBPD. They have responded whenever called. They made this arrest in a few days. The slow degradation of laws the PD have at their disposal to confront or accost folks, is the problem. God forbid you're pulled over cause you drive the same make/model of a vehicle involved in a crime. A simple ordinance violation such a loitering has been taken away. The cops know who the bad guys are. IMO, the vast majority of them are good cops, trying to keep the streets safe. It's frustrating when a guy is caught shitting on your building and nothing happens. He's processed and out on the street in a few hours. He never shows up for a court date. These guys have nothing to lose. Many of these issue are " quality of life " type things, but nothing happens. They don't have $$ to pay fines. How about going away for a long time after the 1st carjacking, 2nd stolen vehicle/riding in stolen vehicle. How about I don't care if you're 15.

The guy choked on the subway by the marine had 42 arrests, including 3 unprovoked assaults on females. Why is that guy even on the street. How about the guy who killed the cop in Queens a couple weeks ago. Was in/out of prison with 21 arrests including a gun charge last year. Mayor Adams asked why he is on the street. this is the frustration. Why does it take the RU student in her window, almost paralyzed, for us to show some outrage? My kid lives a block away on Easton. It could have been him.

Yes … your kid could have been … any of us could be a victim. There are both good and bad in law enforcement including those in the judicial system who have charge to enforce the laws. Or “ used “ to enforce the laws.

 

[retired711]

The U.S. Supreme Court held about fifty years ago that the usual anti-loitering statute is void because it is so vague that it is impossible to know what is forbidden.

https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/loitering-laws/

 

[RUPete]

The U.S. Supreme Court held about fifty years ago that the usual anti-loitering statute is void because it is so vague that it is impossible to know what is forbidden.

https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/loitering-laws/

And as a result of that ruling we are now stuck with all of these Karen videos on social media! 😂

 

[NotInRHouse]

No complaints about the NBPD. They have responded whenever called. They made this arrest in a few days. The slow degradation of laws the PD have at their disposal to confront or accost folks, is the problem. God forbid you're pulled over cause you drive the same make/model of a vehicle involved in a crime. A simple ordinance violation such a loitering has been taken away. The cops know who the bad guys are. IMO, the vast majority of them are good cops, trying to keep the streets safe. It's frustrating when a guy is caught shitting on your building and nothing happens. He's processed and out on the street in a few hours. He never shows up for a court date. These guys have nothing to lose. Many of these issue are " quality of life " type things, but nothing happens. They don't have $$ to pay fines. How about going away for a long time after the 1st carjacking, 2nd stolen vehicle/riding in stolen vehicle. How about I don't care if you're 15.

The guy choked on the subway by the marine had 42 arrests, including 3 unprovoked assaults on females. Why is that guy even on the street. How about the guy who killed the cop in Queens a couple weeks ago. Was in/out of prison with 21 arrests including a gun charge last year. Mayor Adams asked why he is on the street. this is the frustration. Why does it take the RU student in her window, almost paralyzed, for us to show some outrage? My kid lives a block away on Easton. It could have been him.

We are talking about New Brunswick.

When was the loitering law changed...or what other laws were changed...that allowed this, or any other incident, to occur in NB?

What's going on in NYC isn't germane here. They have a terrible mayor and the NYPD is issue laden. Not related to NB and not the same criminal law, of course.

 

[NotInRHouse]

That is literally not the issue here.

One below. I have had multiple. Too many to list. You reap what you sow.


NIRH will be upset that the guy choked on the subway had his rights violated.

Actually it's the issue. Most people will tell you NBPD does a poor job.

You have one person saying they did a good job. But he was also told a law exists by the same PD that a law professor correctly pointed out does not.

The subway incident didn't involve the police. It was two civilians. Of course, the police weren't there enforcing the law.

BTW, what subway is it in NB, and what laws of the NYC Charter or NYS take precedent over the NJSA?

You have a law degree, but can't name one of these NJ laws that are hamstringing the police?

 

[NotInRHouse]

The U.S. Supreme Court held about fifty years ago that the usual anti-loitering statute is void because it is so vague that it is impossible to know what is forbidden.

https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/loitering-laws/

Why are you bringing the law into a discussion about law enforcement?

When I think about enforcing the laws in NJ, I don't want to hear about NJ state law or the SCOTUS.

When i think about enforcing the laws in NJ and crime in NJ, I want to hear about the NYPD, NY bail law, the mayor of NYC and an incident on the NYC subway between two non law enforcement officers, am I right?

 

[retired711]

Why are you bringing the law into a discussion about law enforcement?

When I think about enforcing the laws in NJ, I don't want to hear about NJ state law or the SCOTUS.

When i think about enforcing the laws in NJ and crime in NJ, I want to hear about the NYPD, NY bail law, the mayor of NYC and an incident on the NYC subway between two non law enforcement officers, am I right?

Word to the wise -- it's very important to recognize that sarcasm doesn't come through well on a chatboard. Use the "/s" symbol.

 

[newell138]

Rutgers Student Shot In Stomach In Gang-Related Attack: Police

New details released in the Easton Ave. shooting, where police say a man fired into a crowd of a dozen people, hitting two Rutgers students:

patch.com

 

[NotInRHouse]

Word to the wise -- it's very important to recognize that sarcasm doesn't come through well on a chatboard. Use the "/s" symbol.

If people can't get the sarcasm in that post they should stick to paying $60 for a Bible and leave the discussion.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Here are the people arrested:

• Farmer, 22, of New Brunswick, the alleged shooter. He was charged with two counts of first-degree attempted murder, aggravated assault and illegal gun charges.
• Walter Rodriguez-Cardenas, 20, was arrested without incident in Plainfield, where he lives. Police say he drove the getaway car. He was charged with third-degree armed riot and third-degree hindering the apprehension of another.
• Ryan Nasi, 22, of Hillsborough, charged with third-degree armed riot.

Can someone tell me what the NYPD or NY bail law has to do with this, and what laws in NJ are preventing the cops from taking these people on?

 

[RUTGERS95]

If people can't get the sarcasm in that post they should stick to paying $60 for a Bible and leave the discussion.

more religious bigotry or the need to bring Trump into everything you do? I mean if all we did was make fun of dancing sprites and loons in dresses you'd get upset so why start?

 

[SF88]

First, it sounds like NBPD did a great job investigating and arresting the people involved.

These guys are reported to be members of the Brims, an offshoot of the Bloods gang. It's my understanding most gangs will get their $$ via drug sales. The drug sales are typically made by guys "hangin out" or "watching out". they have a system in place for distribution to the buying public. In the past, the police could stop and frisk, or question these folks for loitering. The cops know who the bad guys are. Everyone in the neighborhood knows who the bad guys are. Now the police are neutered from doing those things. Can't get those drug or guns like they used to. All they can do is react after an attempted murder occurred. All in the name of "rights". What about the rights of the innocent college girl looking out her window?

The NYPD incident was symptomatic of criminals being allowed to remain on the street. Why are guys with 20+ arrests still on the street? What about the guy who literally shit on Pete's building, what penalty should he pay? How many times does he get to do that with impunity? He has no $, he can't pay a fine. He just wastes all the police and court resources by continually processing him with no end in sight.

No one ever accosted me while watching my kids play in a park. Why, because my children where there playing with other children and I didn't stand/sit int he same place everyday, all day. If police did accost me, I don't think i'd have an issue, because I have nothing to hid.. No drugs, no guns.

I guess you have no issue with gang members randomly shooting on Easton Ave. As I said earlier, my kid lives on Easton, with a forward facing window on the second floor. Let's hear your solution as to what NBPD should do to reduce gang violence, drug sales and gun incidents, given these changing times. I'll wait

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Everyone hates the PoPo until it is 2 Am AND your ex-boyfriend is banging on your front door while screaming he's "gonna F---ing kill you."

 

[RUTGERS95]

Everyone hates the PoPo until it is 2 Am AND your ex-boyfriend is banging on your front door while screaming he's "gonna F---ing kill you."

that's only because you have to call them. Let us handle things our own way and see how it goes. Maybe we have too many laws

 

[mildone]

The next person to tell me they had a great experience with NBPD would be the first. I don't think I've heard one.

I had a great experience involving the NBPD. At least I thought it was great.

Not long out of college, a buddy and I were out on a Thursday night, bar-hopping in NB. After drinking for many hours, now pretty drunk, we had just closed Olde Queens Tavern and were walking to the Melody. My buddy, about 3 yards ahead of me, was loudly relating some story while walking backwards to face me and gesticulating wildly.

As we moved down the street, him walking backwards and waving his arms, I could see, coming up behind him, two NB policemen on horseback. Naturally, I said nothing to warn my buddy.

A few moments later, right as he was saying something like: "...and we were so f'ing f'd up...", throwing his arms wide to, I suppose, better convey the epic degree of inebriation, he slammed his hand into the nose of one of the cop's horses. Which caused him to jerk his head around and find himself looking right into the horse's face. Not something you see every day on the streets of NB.

That was funny enough. But the best part was that he quickly realized there was a cop attached to the horse and, with barely any pause, he altered the end of his sentence with: "...which is why it was a good thing we weren't driving that night". 🤣

One of the cops said something like "just make sure you're not driving tonight either" and they continued on their way, clearly amused.

So, not a bad experience, right?

 

[NotInRHouse]

First, it sounds like NBPD did a great job investigating and arresting the people involved.

These guys are reported to be members of the Brims, an offshoot of the Bloods gang. It's my understanding most gangs will get their $$ via drug sales. The drug sales are typically made by guys "hangin out" or "watching out". they have a system in place for distribution to the buying public. In the past, the police could stop and frisk, or question these folks for loitering. The cops know who the bad guys are. Everyone in the neighborhood knows who the bad guys are. Now the police are neutered from doing those things. Can't get those drug or guns like they used to. All they can do is react after an attempted murder occurred. All in the name of "rights". What about the rights of the innocent college girl looking out her window?

The NYPD incident was symptomatic of criminals being allowed to remain on the street. Why are guys with 20+ arrests still on the street? What about the guy who literally shit on Pete's building, what penalty should he pay? How many times does he get to do that with impunity? He has no $, he can't pay a fine. He just wastes all the police and court resources by continually processing him with no end in sight.

No one ever accosted me while watching my kids play in a park. Why, because my children where there playing with other children and I didn't stand/sit int he same place everyday, all day. If police did accost me, I don't think i'd have an issue, because I have nothing to hid.. No drugs, no guns.

I guess you have no issue with gang members randomly shooting on Easton Ave. As I said earlier, my kid lives on Easton, with a forward facing window on the second floor. Let's hear your solution as to what NBPD should do to reduce gang violence, drug sales and gun incidents, given these changing times. I'll wait

I am not sure who Pete is.

I am also sure what the NYPD has to do with the NBPD or the laws in NB or NJ.

Can you explain the connection?

You say that times are changing....well I graduated during GS 1.0 and guess what...during that time the area by Golden Rail was a problem...it always was. People without any connection to RU, and often none to NB, sit outside of Giovanelli's. So here are my ideas. Patrol that area. Close off access to Condict Street to non-residents and guests by vehicle. From dusk to 3-4 when people clear out of the drunk food places, Easton between Hamilton and Somerset should be swamped with police. People wouldn't do drug deals there if that happened.

And, NBPD should stop ticketing for underage drinking without some other serious offense like DUI and direct those resources elsewhere.

Finally, the Middlesex County Sheriff should have everyone on Blue lot patrol game day moved over to Easton Ave patrol game night.

Could probably think of more but that's where I'd start.

And if the NBPD needs more people- well departments in Edison, Helmetta and other places that have faced massive investigations and lawsuits seem ready to shed some personnel.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I had a great experience involving the NBPD. At least I thought it was great.

Not long out of college, a buddy and I were out on a Thursday night, bar-hopping in NB. After drinking for many hours, now pretty drunk, we had just closed Olde Queens Tavern and were walking to the Melody. My buddy, about 3 yards ahead of me, was loudly relating some story while walking backwards to face me and gesticulating wildly.

As we moved down the street, him walking backwards and waving his arms, I could see, coming up behind him, two NB policemen on horseback. Naturally, I said nothing to warn my buddy.

A few moments later, right as he was saying something like: "...and we were so f'ing f'd up...", throwing his arms wide to, I suppose, better convey the epic degree of inebriation, he slammed his hand into the nose of one of the cop's horses. Which caused him to jerk his head around and find himself looking right into the horse's face. Not something you see every day on the streets of NB.

That was funny enough. But the best part was that he quickly realized there was a cop attached to the horse and, with barely any pause, he altered the end of his sentence with: "...which is why it was a good thing we weren't driving that night". 🤣

One of the cops said something like "just make sure you're not driving tonight either" and they continued on their way, clearly amused.

So, not a bad experience, right?

Lol kudos. Was the friend a guy say...very interested in weather lol

 

[NotInRHouse]

Everyone hates the PoPo until it is 2 Am AND your ex-boyfriend is banging on your front door while screaming he's "gonna F---ing kill you."

The problem is I know people who have made calls like this and were not helped. In NB. In other places, they have been.

There is nuance. We'd never say all doctors are perfect or all professors are perfect or waiters are perfect but some think we have to say the cops are...and if people say "all cops are bad" they're wrong too but I haven't seen that here.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

The problem is I know people who have made calls like this and were not helped. In NB. In other places, they have been.

There is nuance. We'd never say all doctors are perfect or all professors are perfect or waiters are perfect but some think we have to say the cops are...and if people say "all cops are bad" they're wrong too but I haven't seen that here.

You've seen a lot of anti-waiter protests recently? Is anyone pouring money into mass "grassroots" anti-doctor protests?

 

[NotInRHouse]

You've seen a lot of anti-waiter protests recently? Are the democrats pouring money into mass "grassroots" anti-doctor protests?

Exactly, no, because other people can take criticism. For example, I don't Hollywood protesting because Diddy got arrested. I don't see teachers protesting when bad ones get fired. Only one profession does that.

Democrats have several police (including from excellent blue lines like the Capitol Police) running for office, but anything to politicize the non political I guess.

 

[mildone]

Lol kudos. Was the friend a guy say...very interested in weather lol

Nope. This was a decade or so before I met #s.

 

[RUnTeX]

I am not sure who Pete is.

Publicly disclosed on here for awhile now but it's @RUskoolie, a former letterwinner during GS1.0. Has a business in NB and is a sponsor of this site.

 

[RUskoolie]

Here are the people arrested:

• Farmer, 22, of New Brunswick, the alleged shooter. He was charged with two counts of first-degree attempted murder, aggravated assault and illegal gun charges.
• Walter Rodriguez-Cardenas, 20, was arrested without incident in Plainfield, where he lives. Police say he drove the getaway car. He was charged with third-degree armed riot and third-degree hindering the apprehension of another.
• Ryan Nasi, 22, of Hillsborough, charged with third-degree armed riot.

Can someone tell me what the NYPD or NY bail law has to do with this, and what laws in NJ are preventing the cops from taking these people on?

JFC dude stop being so obtuse and pretending like it's not all related to the same party who supports this. One party wants no bail, supports defunding the police, decriminalization etc.

Better yet let's have your address (can even be your work address so you're not too uncomfortable) I can round up 10 drunks and drug addicts in New Brunswick (not hard to find 10 pretty fast), put them in my work van and have them dropped off in front of your house by sunset. I'm sure you will have no qualms or issues with it.

 

[RUskoolie]

FWIW more of the buildings we manage in New Brunswick have cameras installed outside. The police come into my office...gosh at least 1-2 times a quarter asking for access to footage (which we gladly give them) to try and help solve a crime. www.tvdhousing.com is us. I am the owner as Steve said.

When 32 Delafield St happened several years ago (a fatal shooting) we went around to every property we manage and installed dusk to dawn lights to help make some of the houses brighter and safer at night.

New Brunswick is a tremendous city but the police feel defeated by what occurred summer 2020 and half of you are going to pretend like you don't know what that was about or even worse that you didn't support it.

It's not just a New Brunswick problem but you're arguing about the runny nose, that's the symptom. Why is the body sick in the first place? That's the elephant in the room one person ITT is ignoring.

 

[NotInRHouse]

JFC dude stop being so obtuse and pretending like it's not all related to the same party who supports this. One party wants no bail, supports defunding the police, decriminalization etc.

Better yet let's have your address (can even be your work address so you're not too uncomfortable) I can round up 10 drunks and drug addicts in New Brunswick (not hard to find 10 pretty fast), put them in my work van and have them dropped off in front of your house by sunset. I'm sure you will have no qualms or issues with it.

Sure, I'll give you my address once you tell me:

1) The NJ law for "no bail"

2) Proof the police in NB (or Plainfield or Hillsborough) were "defunded"

3) What crimes in NB or NJ were "decriminalized"

Surely you can provide proof, right?

 

[NotInRHouse]

FWIW more of the buildings we manage in New Brunswick have cameras installed outside. The police come into my office...gosh at least 1-2 times a quarter asking for access to footage (which we gladly give them) to try and help solve a crime. www.tvdhousing.com is us. I am the owner as Steve said.

When 32 Delafield St happened several years ago (a fatal shooting) we went around to every property we manage and installed dusk to dawn lights to help make some of the houses brighter and safer at night.

New Brunswick is a tremendous city but the police feel defeated by what occurred summer 2020 and half of you are going to pretend like you don't know what that was about or even worse that you didn't support it.

It's not just a New Brunswick problem but you're arguing about the runny nose, that's the symptom. Why is the body sick in the first place? That's the elephant in the room one person ITT is ignoring.

Right, so list the laws in NJ that changed from the summer of 2020 on that changed. Tell everyone how police were harmed.

What's so hard about that? Since it's so real, it should take seconds to name the laws hamstringing the police.

And must have been a real weakling running the country in summer 2020 to have let all of this happen. I wonder who that was? Anyone know?

Must have been real tough in 2020. After all, in March all the students left and didn't come back for over a year...how did the NBPD manage?

 

[retired711]

Sure, I'll give you my address once you tell me:

1) The NJ law for "no bail"

2) Proof the police in NB (or Plainfield or Hillsborough) were "defunded"

3) What crimes in NB or NJ were "decriminalized"

Surely you can provide proof, right?

At the risk of confusing the discussion by providing facts, New Jersey abolished cash bail some years ago. OTOH, the prosecutor can initiate "detention hearing" to determine whether the arrested individual should be held until trial. That means that the arrestee's economic status plays no role in whether he/she is released pending trial. Let me quote a source:

"Under the old law, a defendant is released or detained based on their ability to post bail. Under the new law, there is no bail. The New Jersey court looks at whether or not the defendant will appear in court, the community is safe, and whether the defendant will obstruct the criminal justice process. The decision to release or incarcerate the defendant must be made within 48 hours of arrest.

"Further, under the new law, the majority of defendants are supposed to be released on their own recognizance (or “ROR’d”).

"The court can order detention only when it finds by clear and convincing evidence that no conditions of release can satisfy the three risks noted above."

Funny what one can learn by doing a little research.

https://www.breslowlaw.com/criminal-defense/detention-hearing-nj-bail-guidelines

 

[NotInRHouse]

At the risk of confusing the discussion by providing facts, New Jersey abolished cash bail some years ago. OTOH, the prosecutor can initiate "detention hearing" to determine whether the arrested individual should be held until trial. That means that the arrestee's economic status plays no role in whether he/she is released pending trial. Let me quote a source:

"Under the old law, a defendant is released or detained based on their ability to post bail. Under the new law, there is no bail. The New Jersey court looks at whether or not the defendant will appear in court, the community is safe, and whether the defendant will obstruct the criminal justice process. The decision to release or incarcerate the defendant must be made within 48 hours of arrest.

"Further, under the new law, the majority of defendants are supposed to be released on their own recognizance (or “ROR’d”).

"The court can order detention only when it finds by clear and convincing evidence that no conditions of release can satisfy the three risks noted above."

Funny what one can learn by doing a little research.

https://www.breslowlaw.com/criminal-defense/detention-hearing-nj-bail-guidelines

In other words...people are still detained with they're a threat to the community.

This is different from the NY law. NY is the only state where judges don't have this discretion,

People in this thread are either deliberately confusing them or don't have the wherewithal to sort out the propaganda the media is feeding them.

But that isn't the only lie and propaganda the posters saying that 2020 demoralized the NBPD are spouting...

There's lots more fun lies to unpack. Let's start with the first sentence in your link:

Bail reform in New Jersey became effective on January 1, 2017, and it really changed the landscape of what happens in a criminal case.

Let's go lie by lie:

"One party wants no bail, supports defunding the police, decriminalization etc."

Anyone know who was governor in NJ on January 1, 2017 and signed this "no bail" law?

What party is he part of? Did he, like, run for President, twice, with this party something?

Oh!

Next lie:

"New Brunswick is a tremendous city but the police feel defeated by what occurred summer 2020 and half of you are going to pretend like you don't know what that was about or even worse that you didn't support it."

Now, I know it's hard to agree on things and I'm sure people will fight this, but in most of the world, January 1, 2017 is a good 3 years plus before the summer of 2020! Controversial I know.

Also safe to say I didn't support, and don't support the signer of that 2017 law. But more than half of NJ voters did his re-election. And I'm not an election denier...so...will of the people.

Now with all that disinformation out of the way, how does judges detaining violent people causing crime...and what was decriminalized....he probably won't say, but still.

 

[RUskoolie]

Sure, I'll give you my address once you tell me:

1) The NJ law for "no bail"

2) Proof the police in NB (or Plainfield or Hillsborough) were "defunded"

3) What crimes in NB or NJ were "decriminalized"

Surely you can provide proof, right?

I really need to explain to you a police officers hesitancy to do anything other than the bare minimum this day and age? They do they right thing and they have people protesting outside their offices.

You keep wanting to argue law without acknowledging common sense situations.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I really need to explain to you a police officers hesitancy to do anything other than the bare minimum this day and age? They do they right thing and they have people protesting outside their offices.

Yes, other professions have no litigation. Just ask doctors and teachers.

You are claiming falsely that NJ laws are inhibiting anything. Bail reform in NJ- signed by Christie (but it's only one side!) in 2017 didn't do what you said, when you said, or did it come from who you said.

Turn off the fake news media spigot.

My advice to anyone who doesn't want to do their job is quit. It's a win/win. Especially since I like a small government and don't want my tax dollars going to someone not doing what they're paid to do. I can also recommend several officers and towns and cities NBPD can look to for people interested in enforcing the law and not blaming things that happened elsewhere for their problems.

Not to mention, in summer 2020, many police marched WITH protesters all over NJ. They marched in places like Manasquan where the chief's daughter organized it and yet the police were back out there hours later. They marched in Camden together.

You want to conflate the fact that police in NB who have had problems before anyone knew who George Floyd was, or even Eric Gardner or anyone else, with some national news you are fed. It isn't a national story. It's a New Brunswick story. Has been for decades.

By the token you want to play, are all police like Uvalde- arresting parents as they demand officers save their children from a mass murderer? Can we just extrapolate that nationally and blame everyone?

 

[RUTGERS95]

a cancer

 

[retired711]

Yes, other professions have no litigation. Just ask doctors and teachers.

You are claiming falsely that NJ laws are inhibiting anything. Bail reform in NJ- signed by Christie (but it's only one side!) in 2017 didn't do what you said, when you said, or did it come from who you said.

Turn off the fake news media spigot.

My advice to anyone who doesn't want to do their job is quit. It's a win/win. Especially since I like a small government and don't want my tax dollars going to someone not doing what they're paid to do. I can also recommend several officers and towns and cities NBPD can look to for people interested in enforcing the law and not blaming things that happened elsewhere for their problems.

Not to mention, in summer 2020, many police marched WITH protesters all over NJ. They marched in places like Manasquan where the chief's daughter organized it and yet the police were back out there hours later. They marched in Camden together.

You want to conflate the fact that police in NB who have had problems before anyone knew who George Floyd was, or even Eric Gardner or anyone else, with some national news you are fed. It isn't a national story. It's a New Brunswick story. Has been for decades.

By the token you want to play, are all police like Uvalde- arresting parents as they demand officers save their children from a mass murderer? Can we just extrapolate that nationally and blame everyone?

I tried (apparently, unsuccessfully) to explain that someone can be doing his job in a way that meets the job's requirements but not going the extra mile. I deal with people every day who do that, and I'm sure you do, too. My sense is that there is true of many police officers and that the BLM movement made it worse. In saying that, I am *not* suggesting that BLM is necessarily wrong in critiquing police conduct; I'm just telling you one consequence. My understanding is that many police departments have a *lot* of vacancies -- many more than in the past. Criticism of police conduct is not the only reason, but it is one. The number of vacancies is pretty good evidence that the job is not thought of as a desirable one. (BTW, when an employer has a lot of vacancies, there is a temptation to cut corners in assessing candidates, which makes matters worse. I see this in lots of fields these days.)

In saying all this, I am *not* defending the New Brunswick police or any other department for that matter. I would not be surprised if they are hard on college students; many police departments are. I would not be surprised if they find enforcing laws on under-age drinking a lot less dangerous and a lot more pleasurable than potentially getting their ass shot off.

Speaking as an old person, I think one of the worst problems we have right now is polarization. The truth frequently lies between the extremes, and this is often lost. I hope you and others (including the person you are responding to) will keep this in mind in your discussions.

Edit: I meant to include the following link on police vacancies:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/us-experiencing-police-hiring-crisis-rcna103600

 

[RUskoolie]

Yes, other professions have no litigation. Just ask doctors and teachers.

You are claiming falsely that NJ laws are inhibiting anything. Bail reform in NJ- signed by Christie (but it's only one side!) in 2017 didn't do what you said, when you said, or did it come from who you said.

Turn off the fake news media spigot.

My advice to anyone who doesn't want to do their job is quit. It's a win/win. Especially since I like a small government and don't want my tax dollars going to someone not doing what they're paid to do. I can also recommend several officers and towns and cities NBPD can look to for people interested in enforcing the law and not blaming things that happened elsewhere for their problems.

Not to mention, in summer 2020, many police marched WITH protesters all over NJ. They marched in places like Manasquan where the chief's daughter organized it and yet the police were back out there hours later. They marched in Camden together.

You want to conflate the fact that police in NB who have had problems before anyone knew who George Floyd was, or even Eric Gardner or anyone else, with some national news you are fed. It isn't a national story. It's a New Brunswick story. Has been for decades.

By the token you want to play, are all police like Uvalde- arresting parents as they demand officers save their children from a mass murderer? Can we just extrapolate that nationally and blame everyone?

I will give you credit, you were trained well in law to veer off topic, but that doesn't work on me. Again, where can I drop off the bums that you so proudly defend?

 

[NotInRHouse]

I tried (apparently, unsuccessfully) to explain that someone can be doing his job in a way that meets the job's requirements but not going the extra mile. I deal with people every day who do that, and I'm sure you do, too. My sense is that there is true of many police officers and that the BLM movement made it worse. In saying that, I am *not* suggesting that BLM is necessarily wrong in critiquing police conduct; I'm just telling you one consequence. My understanding is that many police departments have a *lot* of vacancies -- many more than in the past. Criticism of police conduct is not the only reason, but it is one. The number of vacancies is pretty good evidence that the job is not thought of as a desirable one. (BTW, when an employer has a lot of vacancies, there is a temptation to cut corners in assessing candidates, which makes matters worse. I see this in lots of fields these days.)

In saying all this, I am *not* defending the New Brunswick police or any other department for that matter. I would not be surprised if they are hard on college students; many police departments are. I would not be surprised if they find enforcing laws on under-age drinking a lot less dangerous and a lot more pleasurable than potentially getting their ass shot off.

Speaking as an old person, I think one of the worst problems we have right now is polarization. The truth frequently lies between the extremes, and this is often lost. I hope you and others (including the person you are responding to) will keep this in mind in your discussions.

Edit: I meant to include the following link on police vacancies:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/us-experiencing-police-hiring-crisis-rcna103600

That can all be true. And taking it all to be true, why are we not dismissing people who don't do their job?

If a teacher walked into class each day and said I'm just going throw on a video everyday and text my friends while students sit there, it would be outrageous...this would be equivalent.

Instead it's defended...