Penn State Football: Sorry, But Rutgers Is A Rival. For Now.
- Thread starter PhDKnight
- Start date
that is a great article and a realistic look at where their program is. can't believe i just typed that. I wish people on this board would take that same look with us and realize the depths of where this program was in 2004 losing at home to new hampshire, to where they are now and how we are trending up and stop looking at what rivals rates a recruiting class and stop with the mentality of the 70's when rutgers was playing columbia and ivy league schools. its 2015. there are steps to this process. you don't go from overnight losing games at home to buffalo, villanova, losing by 73 to wvu and in ten, 12 years go to winning a national title. you can do that in hoops like a vcu, get five guys to stay together and boom year after year, ncaa tourney, then sweet sixteen then final four. but not in football and i wish the older guys on this board would realize the steps our program has taken and the stability we are at now with being a 7-8-9 win a year program. and not complain when we schedule a home and home with an SEC school, beat that school, and then go "well that school finished the year on an 8 game losing streak" oh so it doesn't count now? should we give the win back? i do too want that next step to be a consistent 10-11 win program, but realize there is a lot of work to get to that next step. it didn't happen overnight for michigan state it didn't happen overnight for wisconsin it didn't happen overnight for baylor, all of these programs devoted resources to their programs (coaching, facilities, stadium upgrades) to get to where they are now. for crying out loud nebraska fired a coach who had 3 9 win seasons and 3 10 win seasons. think about that.
This post was edited on 4/14 2:27 PM by NYSportsFan
This post was edited on 4/14 2:27 PM by NYSportsFan
Define trending up?
We arent a 7-8-9 win a year program. We are a 5-6-7 (8 with a bowl) win a year program against this schedule with this talent and this coaching staff. And thats about where we have been since 2005 with two exceptions (2006 and 2010 in opposite directions).
The thing is - the first step to getting to be a consistent 10-11 win a year program is to do it once. Thats where the disconnect is.
Also - Im not sure it didnt happen overnight for all of those teams. They hired the right coach and more or less took off. They might have laid ground work, or the ground work might have been laid after the coach had some initial success (making it easier to fundraise and otherwise afford upgrades, as we did with Schiano.) Baylor was terrible. They hired Briles, and in year four he has 10 wins. Same with Wisconsin and Alvarez. Michigan State was better than those two and D'Antonio had initial success but again, in year four he really took off.
Flood's recruiting failures are going to start showing through in depth soon - as the highly ranked 2011 and 2012 classes pass through. He can't fill all of those holes with underrated 3 stars and transfers. If he doesnt start pulling in classes in the top half of the BCS (i.e. the top 35 or so classes) he is going to have major issues. Maybe not enough to get fired, because RU has a fan base that is pretty tolerant of middling play (and is plenty willing to overrate wins just because they came against a certain conference, even if the team was bad), but enough that we will become firmly entrenched behind not just OSU, and MSU, but Michigan and PSU in this division until we get a new coach.
I don't know if anyone saw Gerry DiNardo's tweet but he was talking about the programs that need to upgrade their facilities to keep up with the top half of the Big Ten and Rutgers is mentioned in with them. If Rutgers is going to be rivals with anyone in the top half, they need to have facilities that can compete with them as well. I'm not sure how much of an importance the football facility upgrades are because so many of the other sports need it more.
I know the bubble is functional and works but I don't know too many other programs who actually have a practice bubble anymore. Even Syracuse is building an indoor facility. From a purely financial aspect it doesn't make any sense, the bubble works but from a recruiting standpoint, it really doesn't do anything to help the program.
I know the bubble is functional and works but I don't know too many other programs who actually have a practice bubble anymore. Even Syracuse is building an indoor facility. From a purely financial aspect it doesn't make any sense, the bubble works but from a recruiting standpoint, it really doesn't do anything to help the program.
We have so many other things to worry about financially in sports that getting FB a new facility has got to be a low priority. Right now we are still good enough that a good coach (alot cheaper than new facilities) could cover the gap relatively easily.
Der, the only problem i have with your statement is you say it like it is fact that Flood is going to fail after the '11 12' kids graduate and I'm sorry but that is not fact. for every alabama, auburn, osu that gets four/five star kids, there is texas/michigan/miami who are getting the same caliber kids and not producing. so that means coaching is involved. and i love how i put my "7-8-9 win program" statement and you took one win off haha to go 6-7-8. its the same thing. the point is this program is finally sustaining success and improvement and is not at the depths of despair that it was when i was a freshman in 99 or 2000. it just isn't and to speculate on what a coach will do in two years with players that mike farrell doesn't rate highly at times, its asinine and you know it. Knight Shift gave the recruiting rankings of tcu and oregon the past five years and they are in the same area that RU is within that 30-50 range of "ranking". we can't keep spewing out conjecture as fact on this board. stop telling me what FLood is going to do if he keeps getting these kids because u nor I nor Mike farrell have ZEROOOOOO idea what these kids will be once they enter a college program.
While it's awesome to have 1 outspoken state senator on our side (I can't believe it's only 1, I mean how many of our state senators graduated from Rutgers?), how much can he actually do? It's a money problem first and foremost. Getting people to give money to Rutgers is like pulling teeth. I mean it's not like Rutgers is short on alumni or even rich alumni.
ACtually I took two off to go 5-6-7 and then added 8 because of the bowls. Its not the same thing. A five win program doesnt make a bowl. A 6 win program could be a losing team. Those are taems that might eeven get you fired at even at RU.
Weve been sustaining this level of success for a decade now. Thats not trending up, its stalling out. We fortunately turned 2006 into a Big Ten invite, but otherwise we so far havent turned it into anything but continued 2005 like seasons.
I can't predict with certaininty what Flood's recruits will do. You are correct. But I can look at them as a whole and see that they aren't in the 30-50 range - they are in the 50+ range. And I can see that there is a strong correlation between recruiting ranking and team success. Its not a 1:1 correlation. But something like 39 out of every 40 teams will finish within 20 spots in either direction of their 4-5 year recruiting average. Which means that being just on the edge of others getting votes is kind of the realistic high end for Flood if he comes in with another 50+ class, just like it was for Schiano except for one magical year.
I can also see that Flood has so far underperformed based on that metric. His teams have been worse (including last years) than their recruiting average would indicate. Not a good sign if you are hoping for a turn around, particularly since unlike Wisconsin and Baylor, Flood was building on a successful team.
And of course you discount the idea that we could in fact underperform. There is only upside for you, which is also unrealistic, considering 2013 was only two seasons ago.
Im not saying anything revolutionary here. In all likelihood Flood will need to recruit better in order to outplay OSU, MSU, Michigan, and PSU in the coming years, because all of those teams will at least out recruit us, and I think most people would say that at least three of them have significantly better coaches (and staffs) than us.
I mean we lost to PSU at home this year, when they had worse talent then they will have (on paper) and we had better talent than we will have (on paper). We barely beat Michigan at home when they had similar if not worse talent and worse coaching than they will have going forward.
The long term future for RU is rosy. Eventually we will luck into the right coach and be able to take advantage of our natural geographic advantages. But is that coach Flood? This years recruiting class and on field performance will largely tell the tale I think.
I think the politicians are going to realize the bump in popularity they'll be getting when they are pro-RU athletics. In any case, given the fictionalization that has taken place in NJ, and the fractious nature of every issue, getting more pro-RU people from more sectors is part of the requisite dynamic to improving things here. If we can get more of the media on board, more alumni on board, more politicians on board, and (at last) Barchi on board, the pendulum won't be so hard to move. It's a momentum thing, and the more people who are supporting the program the more people there will be getting on board.
This is a Battle for NYC-Philly-DC (THE MEGALOPIS) dominance and it is against ESPN. And this will be a big win for BTN
Delany and Silverman will make it into a triad with Maryland in the mix as well but that is down the road. You want to own the Metropolitan market you need local talent
Rutgers vs. PoSU does just that
Delany and Silverman will make it into a triad with Maryland in the mix as well but that is down the road. You want to own the Metropolitan market you need local talent
Rutgers vs. PoSU does just that
ACtually I took two off to go 5-6-7 and then added 8 because of the bowls. Its not the same thing. A five win program doesnt make a bowl. A 6 win program could be a losing team. Those are taems that might eeven get you fired at even at RU.
I agree and this mean only 1-3 Big Ten wins a season.
I agree and this mean only 1-3 Big Ten wins a season.
2004 wasn't the disaster you make it out to be...
1) That UNH team was a Chip Kelly offense... going against a Schiano who wanted his D to play every game as if they were playing a ranked team.. that is, he stunted and blitzed all the time, even when we had the horses to play straight up. In other words.. the reason we beat Michigan State in the opener is the same reason we lost to UNH.
2) A car accident after the homecoming game decimated the DBs in that season. We were 4-2 after beating Temple on Homecoming and lost the next 5. We should have beaten Navy and UCONN to end the season and gone bowling. Navy blew us out.. but that was largely due to running some horrible pitch-D scheme that had to be a product of being thin at DB. It was HORRIBLE and no DC of Schiano's caliber would have had something like that installed unless he had no choice. Certainly he handled Navy a lot better in every other year.
I think GS's first 4 years were all spent building a defense that operated "like" a Miami defense. I think it cost us a lot of games and some lopsided scores.. but we all liked what the investment produced in 2005 and 2006.
Similar to how the top 10 recruits from Jersey view Rutgers when they commit to PSU each year?
Seriously it could be a rivalry down the line. Nothing right now aside from the locations of the schools and the fanbases themselves is a rivalry. The recruiting battles and results say this is nothing close to anything but a fan rivalry.
Rutgers needs to take more junior college players period. When you are a middling program you are going to miss out on the 4 and 5 star players so while you can take a chance on some lower rated players you should also be taking 10 or more proven junior college players each year until you can start building a depth of players that can contribute on the field if called to do so.
yeah that made no sense lol.Originally posted by kjb32812:
As of today, I'm not quite sure how someone could not believe that PSU and RU are at least somewhat a rivalry simply based on proximity and recruiting.
LOL @ the guy who has PSU in Rutgers rear view mirror.
It's definitely a rivalry, I think from both sides going forward. We need to do our part with recruits and to win our share of games. right now its 1-0 PSU in my eyes. I don't care about the games from 20 years ago when I was a kid.
Similar threads
