I’m 100% certain if Cliff did that move they would call that foul on him. That’s my problem. When you get frustrated, you commit stupid fouls. Look at J Mike’s stupid charge. He did that out of frustration.
GAME 16 MICHIGAN STATE: If you have been paying attention...
- Thread starter bac2therac
- Start date
Can someone let me know when we can have a talk about Derek? J Mike, Noah, Gavin, etc have been killed (right or wrong) for most of the season. Other than the Stonehill bank shot and OSU game, Derek has been really bad for most of the season. He’s shooting 33% on the season, and it’s been worse the last 3 — 7-27.
The lack of bench scoring has been a ongoing problem in recent years.
Our guards are starting by default, not really because anyone is stepping up. He has been beaten up plenty on this board this year already. I would argue Williams and J Mike are our best guards right now. Noah I would cut him if I could. Awful.
We don't really have shooters, and we aren't really working to get the highest value shots, specifically for our bigs under the rim. Our guards also don't score very much off of assists, but need to generate their own offense off the dribble.
We also settle for a lot of trash long distance twos.
Not blanming refs for the loss, but another weird stat before today, Aundre Hyatt has never fouled out of a college game until today, 136th game over 2300 minutes. Only 4 games with 4 PFs.
Starting to think there are backcourt refs and frontcourt refs and when we get 2 frontcourt-centric refs, our strength, we are screwed like Walton and Carstensen.
Cliff has fouled out once this year, vs Miss St with 3 no name refs, battling Jimmy Bell Jr, who also fouled out, and 4 fouls in two games both reffed by Earl Walton, Bryant and Mich St.
Carstensen, Szelc, Green, Illinois 18 pt loss Wolf 5 Hyatt 3 Cliff 3
Carstensen, Walton, John Floyd, Mich St 18 pt loss Cliff 4 Hyatt 5
Not sure who the second front court ref is for Illinois game.
I know there is more to it and the shooting on this team is horrendous but when our two of your top three seniored players get early foul trouble, Cliff & Hyatt 2 in the first half, and both with 3 early in the 2nd half. Its tough to maintain composure which ultimately led to the 19-0 run.
Ohio St game had Carstensen with Bill Ek and James Breeding and for the most part let both teams play, Rutgers 13 Ohio St 10.
Starting to think there are backcourt refs and frontcourt refs and when we get 2 frontcourt-centric refs, our strength, we are screwed like Walton and Carstensen.
Cliff has fouled out once this year, vs Miss St with 3 no name refs, battling Jimmy Bell Jr, who also fouled out, and 4 fouls in two games both reffed by Earl Walton, Bryant and Mich St.
Carstensen, Szelc, Green, Illinois 18 pt loss Wolf 5 Hyatt 3 Cliff 3
Carstensen, Walton, John Floyd, Mich St 18 pt loss Cliff 4 Hyatt 5
Not sure who the second front court ref is for Illinois game.
I know there is more to it and the shooting on this team is horrendous but when our two of your top three seniored players get early foul trouble, Cliff & Hyatt 2 in the first half, and both with 3 early in the 2nd half. Its tough to maintain composure which ultimately led to the 19-0 run.
Ohio St game had Carstensen with Bill Ek and James Breeding and for the most part let both teams play, Rutgers 13 Ohio St 10.
Officiating is a major factor and despite respected posters like BAC’s denial, it was the story of the game in the first half. So unfair.
I think Pike is way too nice or passive. Working refs is part of game. Don’t have to be Bobby Knight but have to protect players.
Cliff fouls ridiculous. Same happened to Myles. OSU game. St. John’s game.
At some point have to say this crap has to stop. If this is a lost year nothing to lose by going ballistic this year. Next year will we have talent. Make them think twice before bogus calls. We shouldn’t tolerate nonsense any more.
I think Pike is way too nice or passive. Working refs is part of game. Don’t have to be Bobby Knight but have to protect players.
Cliff fouls ridiculous. Same happened to Myles. OSU game. St. John’s game.
At some point have to say this crap has to stop. If this is a lost year nothing to lose by going ballistic this year. Next year will we have talent. Make them think twice before bogus calls. We shouldn’t tolerate nonsense any more.
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Talk about rinse and repeat...it seems like there are 2 scenarios for us: 1) such as the Ohio State game...fall behind by double digits, make a comeback to get in the game, but just fall short. 2) such as today's game...battle for 30 minutes or so, experience a drought and lose by double digits.
Sadly, I wouldn't say it's limited to the bench. Outside of perhaps Cliff, who on our current roster would start on more than one other B1G team?
There’s no such thing as a good shot or a bad shot. It depends on the player. Every Simpson jumper is a bad shot. Every Wolf shot is a bad shot. Every forced Gavin long range shot is a bad shot.
And soft Uncle Pike lets them keep chucking because that’s the kind of coach he chooses to be. I’m sure the players coming next year have been told they have the green light to shoot almost as soon as they cross half court. Outside of substitutions, it’s clear Pike doesn’t do a much coaching at all. The garbage street ball is god-awful. Oskar had the only nice pass all game….the no look to Davis.
That play was horrendous and hilarious at the same time. However, he runs the break way better than Simpson, who has no clue how to run it.
And so it begins. Last game 21 minutes, 4 turnovers and no assists. Today I saw a full Court coast to coast one on five by Davis. Inexcusable. Ripping Simpson for Davis’ ineptitude. Enlighten RU fans when Simpson went 1 on 5. That was a great fast break. I guess Davis’ foul shooting makes up for it. Oh wait. I get it he helped us get Ace but come on we lost the lead at the first half when Davis came in and we lost in when Davis came in the 2nd half. In what world does he run the break so well? Facts hurt. Irrationally hurts. Please stop. Period!! Please watch tape again before you rip me. It’s right in front of your eyes. SMH.
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It's almost as if the "insiders" and "experts" aren't actually that.
This is why I don't follow recruiting.
I never saw a second of Gavin or Noah before the Princeton game.
Seems we recruited Noah based on that one game he played against us?
As you said, the reports of Gavin providing instant offense and potentially being our leading scorer were.....overstated.
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/top-freshman-in-b10-gavin-6.264465/
Very fair point
Counterpoint.... it's essentially impossible J Williams is worse than what we have gotten from Noah and Gavin so far this year. Simpson is somehow shooting worse than last season. Davis is a freshman. Our guard play has been absolutely horrible overall all season
The bar for J Williams to be our best guard is sooo low
1. As of late April the roster was supposed to have Paul Mulcahy, Cam Spencer, and Baye Ndongo.
2. Once those three left there was still a world where this roster worked and was in the bubble conversation. That was dependent on Gavin Griffiths being an impact scorer as a freshman, Noah Fernandes being a capable fifth-year leader at point guard, Cliff Omoruyi refining his offensive game, and Derek Simpson making a sophomore leap akin to Braden Smith, Bruce Thornton, and Dug McDaniel. Not only have none of those (reasonable!) things happened, three of them have gone MUCH worse than even the most pessimistic outlook (Cliff, Noah, and Gavin are disasters relative to expectations. Simpson is basically just the same as last year).
2. Once those three left there was still a world where this roster worked and was in the bubble conversation. That was dependent on Gavin Griffiths being an impact scorer as a freshman, Noah Fernandes being a capable fifth-year leader at point guard, Cliff Omoruyi refining his offensive game, and Derek Simpson making a sophomore leap akin to Braden Smith, Bruce Thornton, and Dug McDaniel. Not only have none of those (reasonable!) things happened, three of them have gone MUCH worse than even the most pessimistic outlook (Cliff, Noah, and Gavin are disasters relative to expectations. Simpson is basically just the same as last year).
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Absolutely nailed it. Points I've made at various times but you stated it so perfectly and clearly. This. This. This.
I am not sure there are many keepers on the roster for next year. We need to bring in one or two experienced guys with proven talent to complement the freshman class otherwise I fear next years expectations of making it to the second weekend of the tournament are likely overly optimistic.
Simpson expectations were based on a late season few games of success playing 20 minutes or so and not having to be a a go to player. This year we’re asking him to be our go to ball handler, scorer and playmaker. Clearly he is not that player. There’s a reason no other high major recruited him. He’s a bench piece in the big ten, nothing more. Noah’s been even more disappointing and that actually has made Simpsons disappointing play shine even brighter. We needed both to step up big time and we’re getting basically zero from both
Simpson and Noah, and even Davis inability to use the pick and roll to create for Cliff is one of the biggest reasons our offense is ineffective. All 3 struggle to shoot, finish at the rim, and most importantly, do not create for others. I dont think Cliff has had even 10 Lob dunk opportunities all season. It’s the only way he’s ever scored.
As I said, that play was horrendous and Davis is often out of control. However, time and time again, Simpson is indecisive on the break, extremely weak with his dribble, doesn’t have close to proper spacing, and often gets stuffed or forces a shot when he should have passed. He’s Mathis without the explosiveness on the break.
He hasnt. Hes just as inept. But He is a freshman who we had less expectations for. He’s less disappointing than our 5th year prized portal transfer, and everyones proclaimed “next Geo”
Very obvious from the first two games this te doesn’t have anything. Not even worth discussing at this point. Just play the young guys. I predicted 4 conference wins. That may have been ambitious
Game and Game again Davis is even worse. Last game 21 minutes, four turnovers and no assists. Two games ago black hole and you never see the ball again, 4-12. Today he goes full court one on five and we see posts like this saying Simpson is indecisive. He goes in twice and blows RU leads twice. End of half and 14 minute mark. Frightening favoritism. Shame on these fans.
Let's run down the roster,
(1-3)Noah last year, AWill last year, Hyatt last year
If (4)Cliff has NBA aspirations, it won't be here next year's with the players coming in. I can't imagine (5)Oskar being here unless he want to be at the end of the bench again, not really sure about (6)Chol but it seems like he carelessly reclassified when he was probably better off playing another year of HS ball, not sure if he is ever a fit here. I think Chol was a late summer add and redshirted.
(7)JMike and (8)Derek should return, JMike 110%, Derek 90-95% , the four guards should be (9)JWill, Dylan, Derek and JMike next year.
(10)Griffiths should be back. friends with many incoming recruits.
(11)Mag is the only 5th year player that should be retained just to teach forwards like Bryce Dortch and Dylan Grant. Bigs will be Ace, (12)Woolf, Lathan, and (13)Ogbole. That is 12 spots. 13th should be a 5th guard, something we are lacking this year unless JWill becomes eligible.
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Right now we have no B1G guards.
Simpson - Middling freshman season that looked to be turning a corner in the last couple of games, but has entered a sophomore slump and is struggling.
Davis - True frosh who struggles to score and has performed worse as he's been given more time due to Fernandes falling short.
Fernandes - 5th year transfer who performed well in a lower conference, who has failed to come close to that production at Rutgers.
A. Williams - 5th year transfer in his 4th stop who hasn't shown close to the scoring he had at a lower level.
Griffiths - True frosh who seems completely lost both offensively and defensively right now.
J. Williams - Not currently eligible.
None of them are distributors.
None have been able to feed Omoruyi under the basket.
None of them are deep threats.
Only Williams has been efficient scoring the ball, and he rarely shoots.
At this point the question is who can get closest to a C+ grade, or if anyone can suddenly turn a corner and have the light go on for them.
We really need the light to go on for Simpson, Davis, and Griffiths specifically, because they have eligibility after this season.
My expectation for next year:
Starters
PG - Harper
SG - J. Williams
SF - Bailey
PF - Mag
C - Sommerville
Reserves
Simpson
Griffiths
Davis
Woolf
Ogbole
Dortch
Grant
Fair chance we lose a guy or more to the portal, too. We're going to be hella young, but with a lot of talent. Really hope they can develop some early chemistry.
You realize they can both be bad right?
Derek Simpson is shooting 33.6 percent… from TWO. That’s just not going to get it done. This statement has absolutely nothing to do with Jamichael Davis, who is also not getting it done. Our offense is just absurdly ****ing bad.
I am getting to the point where I want to see A Williams as the PG. i was more angry at Pike for not taking out Davis after the stupid dunk attempt than Davis himself. That play basically tells you everything about why our team is putrid offensively.
We get it. You love Simpson and hate Davis. Both haven't shot well enough. Davis is a low ranked freshman so the expectations are different. Many expected much more from Simpson this year as a sophomore and he's shooting worse than his poor shooting freshman year
Davis made a terrible decision to not dish on the break but it wasn't even remotely close to a 5 on 1. He actually did a great job of using speed to easily break through the pressure and create positive numbers. He just made the wrong decision in the end to not dish
Simpson actually did try a 1 on 4 last game though which ended in disaster
I kind of feel like we need a high level portal Center to bridge the gap to Sommerville.
It’s gonna be really hard to get a high level portal guard with Dylan here next year.
It is understandable that JMike is bad at times. He’s a freshman and we had low to very little expectations for him this year anyway. Simpson is still a Sophomore, he has not made the jump we expected this year and has been really bad at times, but there may at least be some sort of hope for him with eligibility remaining ahead. Noah, an experienced college player who had higher expectations as a transfer than JMike and Derek, with no eligibility left, he’s the guy that it is hard to put into words how frustrating his season has been as a comparison.
The worst part about the game is I actually thought our defense for the 1st 30 minutes of the game was excellent and I thought we did a great job of running our offense (best of the year) and getting good looks.
When you play A-/B+ basketball for 30 minutes against a 1-4 team and you end up getting smoked you may be a worse team than you originally thought.
When you play A-/B+ basketball for 30 minutes against a 1-4 team and you end up getting smoked you may be a worse team than you originally thought.
Michigan State is good, they shot 48% from three, and we didn’t get smoked until after we stopped playing A-/B+ basketball. I don’t think this game was particularly any worse than expected.
Actually no because Mulcahy is not playing well at Washington and literally scored 0 points combined in almost 40 minutes of game action in his last 2 games. His numbers are all way below his numbers at RU, because he's not a PG. I see it, Washington coaches see it, only RU fans in denial, don't see it.
Accepting mediocrity is the path some RU fans live for. I wasn't running it back again, sorry to disappoint you.
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