Penn State recruiting question

[BaseballFan913]

2 question on Penn State.

247 has them at 8 recruits, though some of them look like real ballers. The RB from Philly is obviously their top target, but saying they lose him to Georgia, and they lose a few more of the battles they are in, do we as Rutgers need to seriously worry about them trying to pick apart our class?

Not trying to be so concerning on what has been such an awesome few days. Just seeking out thoughts from others. Do any PSU insiders have any insight as to why their class is forming so slowly?

 

[oldman87]

PTSD from flood disaster?

 

[mikemarc1]

Why wouldn't there be concern? Not just by Penn State, but other schools.

School always continue to recruit committed players.

 

[Caliknight]

My over under for Ash losing commits is 2. I take the under.

 

[mikemarc1]

My over under for Ash losing commits is 2. I take the under.

He won't lose any...he gets it. Problem is, Flood showed ZERO concern when kids committed.

This staff will be all over the kids, I bet.

 

[RURM85]

Have confidence that Ash and staff, and current players are developing rock solid relationships with current commits, as well as, relationships among the commits themselves. If a kid de-commits to another school (not just Penn State) then so be it. Taking a look at Penn State offer list for 2017 they still have a lot of players they're pursuing that are not yet committed, and they've also offered some of our commits such as Micah Clark. They're also pursuing some of the same uncommitted players as we are. It is what it is. We've got a good Head Coach and staff that appears to know how to build relationships, so we'll see where we end up at Signing Day. It's looking good and so is the future.

 

[BaseballFan913]

PTSD from flood disaster?

100%.

 

[PatrickRU92]

 

[RUchip]

Wrong board. We don't care about what PSU is doing with recruting.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

IMO the PSU class is on the smaller side at this point for two reasons: (a) the staff is in on a lot of big-time kids who just aren't ready to commit/want to take visits, and (b) many of those same kids might want to see what happens on the field given the coaching changes.

I'm expecting the class to grow by 2-4 over the next month or so, as Lasch Bash is coming up in a couple of weeks and 4-star TE Matt Dotson is scheduled to announce at The Opening (67% crystal ball to PSU, quite possibly already a silent commit).

As it relates to RU's class, it appears that only Micah Clark and Bo Melton currently hold PSU offers. The staff seemed to pay close attention to Olakunle Fatukasi at a camp, so I wouldn't be shocked to see him receive an offer at some point if guys higher on PSU's LB board end up committing elsewhere. Too early to really discuss this, though.

 

[PSUPALY]

Wrong board. We don't care about what PSU is doing with recruting.

 

[PSUPALY]

2 question on Penn State.

247 has them at 8 recruits, though some of them look like real ballers. The RB from Philly is obviously their top target, but saying they lose him to Georgia, and they lose a few more of the battles they are in, do we as Rutgers need to seriously worry about them trying to pick apart our class?

Not trying to be so concerning on what has been such an awesome few days. Just seeking out thoughts from others. Do any PSU insiders have any insight as to why their class is forming so slowly?

Personally, I think Franklin's lost a little "stain", and kids/parents are taking and wait and see approach to see some progress with on-field results (I would too). that being said, we're in it with major prospects, and assuming the tide starts turning this year (hoping), Franklin will seal the deal with some of those recruits.....and possibly flip a few guys (best case scenario). obviously, that could work the other way.

We're not getting Swift, and probably not getting M Webb.

man...you guys have 19 commits already....insane. so, PSU's not the only team you have to worry about.....it's everybody else. what if you have a 4-5 win season (sorry, it's possible)?......you know PSU, Maryland, Temple, Pitt, Virginia or whoever will be in some of these kids' ear. I mean...that's what happened to us after losing 4 straight to end our season......we're still seeing the recruiting impact today......hence Franklin needs to win this year (8 wins min).

it's June fellaz.....the commit list could change dramatically from now till next Feb.

that being said....nice start for Coach Ash.....enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[rurichdog]

Flood isn't here any more. Lil' Jimmy Peckerhead's recruiting landscape has shifted.

 

[Knight Shift]

Personally, I think Franklin's lost a little "stain", and kids/parents are taking and wait and see approach to see some progress with on-field results (I would too). that being said, we're in it with major prospects, and assuming the tide starts turning this year (hoping), Franklin will seal the deal with some of those recruits.....and possibly flip a few guys (best case scenario). obviously, that could work the other way.

We're not getting Swift, and probably not getting M Webb.

man...you guys have 19 commits already....insane. so, PSU's not the only team you have to worry about.....it's everybody else. what if you have a 4-5 win season (sorry, it's possible)?......you know PSU, Maryland, Temple, Pitt, Virginia or whoever will be in some of these kids' ear. I mean...that's what happened to us after losing 4 straight to end our season......we're still seeing the recruiting impact today......hence Franklin needs to win this year (8 wins min).

it's June fellaz.....the commit list could change dramatically from now till next Feb.

that being said....nice start for Coach Ash.....enjoy it while it lasts.

Negatoid. Perish the thought.

 

[RUChoppin]

Personally, I think Franklin's lost a little "stain", and kids/parents are taking and wait and see approach to see some progress with on-field results (I would too).

How much do you think the development of Hackenberg has impacted recruit perception of Franklin? There was noise after his freshman season under Bill O'Brien that he might be a high 1st rounder or even #1 overall pick... and then two years later, he leaves early and goes in the late 2nd round (with some negative analyst commentary about how he had talent but hadn't been properly used/developed).

 

[miketd1]

Franklin's ship is taking on water.

It's pretty obvious he's not the guy who's going to take PSU to the level of OSU/MSU/Michigan.

Unless he has an off-the-charts year (unlikely), it's going to be another middling season and the pitchforks will be out by November.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

How much do you think the development of Hackenberg has impacted recruit perception of Franklin? There was noise after his freshman season under Bill O'Brien that he might be a high 1st rounder or even #1 overall pick... and then two years later, he leaves early and goes in the late 2nd round (with some negative analyst commentary about how he had talent but hadn't been properly used/developed).

I would say very little, if at all. Losing Wimbush to Notre Dame was obviously a negative, but our quarterback recruiting overall under this staff has been fine. They already have a commit from a 4-star, top-10 QB in this cycle, from Ohio, and he appears very solid.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

Franklin's ship is taking on water.

It's pretty obvious he's not the guy who's going to take PSU to the level of OSU/MSU/Michigan.

Unless he has an off-the-charts year (unlikely), it's going to be another middling season and the pitchforks will be out by November.

I think this is overblown a bit. Some of it is Franklin's own fault, for being SO optimistic and positive when he took the job. It was always clear that 2014 and 2015 would be the toughest years post-sanctions; the 2012 and 2013 teams had talented veterans to keep the program's head above water, but eventually the roster limitations came into play, especially at OL.

Don't get me wrong, PSU needs to show progress on the field this season for this recruiting class to finish in the top 15 or 20 nationally, and losing to Pitt and Temple, for example, would deal a huge blow to the perception of Franklin. However, even if the team goes, say, 6-6, the pitchfork crowd will still be only a vocal minority. Anyone paying close attention to PSU knows this is essentially Year 1 of the Franklin regime, and that group includes the administration, as evidenced by the fact that all of the assistants, the strength staff, etc. were recently given two-year guaranteed contract extensions.

Fortunately, I believe we'll see progress, especially on the offensive side, this fall, hopefully setting PSU up for big things in 2017 and 2018.

 

[PSUPALY]

How much do you think the development of Hackenberg has impacted recruit perception of Franklin? There was noise after his freshman season under Bill O'Brien that he might be a high 1st rounder or even #1 overall pick... and then two years later, he leaves early and goes in the late 2nd round (with some negative analyst commentary about how he had talent but hadn't been properly used/developed).

great question....I think it hasn't impacted recruiting at all. look at the QBs Franklin has been able to bring in.... McSorely ('14), Stevens ('15), Zembiec ('16), Clifford ('17) (unproven, but high-school studs). plain and simple....Hack was a round peg in a square hole. I realize that's an easy out...but it's just true. every QB Franklin had in the past (Head Coach or OC) has been mobile. plus, with our OL, Hack's immobility was amplified.

Hack was a perfect fit for O'Brien's pro-style offense....juxtaposing Franklin's offense. I love Hack and everything he did for PSU...pretty much saving any talent worth a damn in that very small 2013 recruiting class in addition to attracting kids in the 2014 class, but Hack probably should've transferred after O'Brien left....I really hate admitting that.

though, I will say...even if O'Brien would've stayed...our OL still would've sucked. O'brien knew he wasn't staying long so he really didn't bother recruiting so hard on the OL which obviously takes time to develop (Franklin inherited a shit show)...instead, focusing on play makers to make immediate impact.

Hack was very good for PSU.....but after O'brien left, unfortunately PSU wasn't able to reciprocate. hopefully, Chan Gailey can develop him in NY.

It's DT & LB that Franklin can't seem to recruit well for some un-godly reason.

 

[PatrickRU92]

Personally, I think Franklin's lost a little "stain", and kids/parents are taking and wait and see approach to see some progress with on-field results .

 

[demauroj]

I think some of it has to do with who they are targeting right now, and also the fact that Franklin's seat is warming up.

If I was a recruit I would be taking a wait and see approach there as well. There is a big difference between being a good recruiter and a good Head Coach, and there is alot in the air around the program heading into Year 3. PSU alums and fans expect results this season or he may be looking for a new job.

 

[PaKnight]

He won't lose any...he gets it. Problem is, Flood showed ZERO concern when kids committed.

This staff will be all over the kids, I bet.

Everyone, Alabama, OSU, loses commits. Recruits just change their minds.

 

[NorthernKnight]

Franklin's ship is taking on water.

It's pretty obvious he's not the guy who's going to take PSU to the level of OSU/MSU/Michigan.

Unless he has an off-the-charts year (unlikely), it's going to be another middling season and the pitchforks will be out by November.

This is why Rhule is sitting tight at Temple.

 

[THERAC]

This year is a make it or break it year for Franklin (no matter what he says about sanctions). Also, Hackenberg really didn't do Franklin any favors after the season and before the draft with how he spoke about him.

Ash is selling the recruits this year that they are joining a rebuilding team. Most of the kids committed know that a 4 to 5 win season is possible. Yes, people will be in their ear but this staff is pretty good at developing strong relationships.

Ash probably gets two years of leeway room with the above.

 

[knightfan7]

Everyone, Alabama, OSU, loses commits. Recruits just change their minds.

No. You've been around long enough to know it's only Rutgers lol.

Can't help but think PSU will be fine. If Franklin fails they'll just open the wallets and hire someone who will have a ton of "stain". They've been a player in the national recruiting landscape for a very long time. There may be bumps in the road but it'd likely be temporary unless they have a series of bad HC decisions.

 

[dvb91]

This is why Rhule is sitting tight at Temple.

Exactly. Rhule is playing smart, biding his time. As long as he keeps Temple moving forward, he's in the catbird seat when Franklin comes up short.

I wouldn't worry about PSU's recruitment unless they they lay a bunch of early eggs. Somehow I don't think it will happen.

 

[RUChoppin]

I would say very little, if at all.

great question....I think it hasn't impacted recruiting at all.

I know you both took this as "how has it impacted QB recruiting", but I meant in a broader sense.

Franklin inherited a 5* kid who came out of his freshman year with talk of the #1 overall pick being in sight for 2016... and the kid saw a drop off in productivity and prospects under Franklin and staff's guidance over the next two years (for a lot of reasons). Do you feel that other 5* (and 4*) prospects with NFL goals have any concerns handing their future over to this staff, given that they took a "sure thing" and dropped him to the late second round?

I agree that Hack wasn't a great fit for Franklin's system... but doesn't that say as much about Franklin's ability to adapt to the talent on his roster than about the player's ability to adapt to Franklin's system?

 

[PSUPALY]

I know you both took this as "how has it impacted QB recruiting", but I meant in a broader sense.

Franklin inherited a 5* kid who came out of his freshman year with talk of the #1 overall pick being in sight for 2016... and the kid saw a drop off in productivity and prospects under Franklin and staff's guidance over the next two years (for a lot of reasons). Do you feel that other 5* (and 4*) prospects with NFL goals have any concerns handing their future over to this staff, given that they took a "sure thing" and dropped him to the late second round?

I agree that Hack wasn't a great fit for Franklin's system... but doesn't that say as much about Franklin's ability to adapt to the talent on his roster than about the player's ability to adapt to Franklin's system?

yeah, I don't know.....I think we've seen an overall down-tick in recruiting due to our overall play....and not necessarily Hack's performance....again, I point to our success in QB recruiting. to follow the same thing....our OL play has been the worst I've ever seen....but that hasn't stopped our fantastic OL recruiting.

It doesn't show Franklin's (or John Donovan's) ability to adapt....but I can't stress enough how bad our OL was. So, Hack might not of been a great fit...but gosh, if he had the same OL he had as a freshmen (5 experienced OL including 3 NFL starters along with Allen Robinson) in 2013....maybe it would've been different .

I don't know...I'm not one to give excuses.....but Hack not being a good fit and the overall catastrophe the OL situation was the last two years.....helps give Franklin a longer leash than normal.

that being said....a couple of good OL recruiting classes under his belt....he now has his stable of mobile QBs (albeit 0 career starts and new OC/system).....Franklin's leash got much shorter.....so we'll see. his pantry full of excuses are almost depleted.

 

[Knight Shift]

I think this is overblown a bit. Some of it is Franklin's own fault, for being SO optimistic and positive when he took the job. It was always clear that 2014 and 2015 would be the toughest years post-sanctions; the 2012 and 2013 teams had talented veterans to keep the program's head above water, but eventually the roster limitations came into play, especially at OL.

Don't get me wrong, PSU needs to show progress on the field this season for this recruiting class to finish in the top 15 or 20 nationally, and losing to Pitt and Temple, for example, would deal a huge blow to the perception of Franklin. However, even if the team goes, say, 6-6, the pitchfork crowd will still be only a vocal minority. Anyone paying close attention to PSU knows this is essentially Year 1 of the Franklin regime, and that group includes the administration, as evidenced by the fact that all of the assistants, the strength staff, etc. were recently given two-year guaranteed contract extensions.

Fortunately, I believe we'll see progress, especially on the offensive side, this fall, hopefully setting PSU up for big things in 2017 and 2018.

Very fair assessment.
With just a superficial look at Franklin's record at Vanderbilt, where he went 9-4 in seasons 2 and 3, one could expect greater things from him in year three at PSU. However, a closer look at the teams Vanderbilt beat in seasons 2 and 3 of Franklin diminishes the accomplishment. From a very positive PSU perspective, you guys have 8 very winnable games in Kent State, Pitt, Temple, Minnesota, Maryland, Purdue, Indiana and Rutgers. Can see some fans getting antsy at less than 8 (minimum) seven wins. None of those games are cupcakes (especially Rutgers :boxing:), but if I am a PSU fan, those should be penciled in as very winnable games.

 

[RUChoppin]

yeah, I don't know.....I think we've seen an overall down-tick in recruiting due to our overall play....and not necessarily Hack's performance....again, I point to our success in QB recruiting.

Yeah, but your QB recruits have all come before Hack slid all the way down to the late 2nd round, and the chatter about how the staff did him no favors (and may have hindered him). It doesn't look like you've had a commit since the NFL Draft at the end of April, which is why I was wondering if you think it had any impact overall.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

I know you both took this as "how has it impacted QB recruiting", but I meant in a broader sense.

Franklin inherited a 5* kid who came out of his freshman year with talk of the #1 overall pick being in sight for 2016... and the kid saw a drop off in productivity and prospects under Franklin and staff's guidance over the next two years (for a lot of reasons). Do you feel that other 5* (and 4*) prospects with NFL goals have any concerns handing their future over to this staff, given that they took a "sure thing" and dropped him to the late second round?

I agree that Hack wasn't a great fit for Franklin's system... but doesn't that say as much about Franklin's ability to adapt to the talent on his roster than about the player's ability to adapt to Franklin's system?

I don't think Hack's progress, or lack thereof, would have impacted recruiting overall. Nor do I think any one player anywhere will have a lasting impact on recruiting.

Put it this way: If I'm a WR, and I have a good relationship with Franklin and the WR coach, a former NFL receiver himself who has coached a number of players who have reached the pros, and PSU just put Allen Robinson in the league, why be concerned with the fact that a pro-style QB failed to progress in an offense that clearly wasn't suited for him? That doesn't mean much to my personal situation. Fans often latch on to one thing and project it to recruiting in general, whether it's one position or the result of one game, and most times recruiting is a lot deeper than these surface-level conversations.

The reason an offensive player might be a little hesitant to commit at this point is because the unit as a whole was dreadful at times over the past two seasons, and that goes far beyond Hack's play. The hope is the OL improves, the scheme improves, Barkley continues to emerge, and arguably the best WR/TE group in the B1G helps the new QB adjust enough to show recruits that the offense is now headed toward a major improvement.

 

[AshCatchEm]

They just had their top player trash Franklin for 3 months and get drafted by the jets second round. The quotes are out there. That's all these kids need to read..Franklin is a dead man walking. If they get a commit they're getting someone who is committing to the school, not the coach. Franklin is a good bet to be fired in the next year or two.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

Yeah, but your QB recruits have all come before Hack slid all the way down to the late 2nd round, and the chatter about how the staff did him no favors (and may have hindered him). It doesn't look like you've had a commit since the NFL Draft at the end of April, which is why I was wondering if you think it had any impact overall.

The last flurry of commits came shortly after the Blue-White Game, which was in mid-April. I wouldn't look at the timing of the NFL Draft as indication of anything.

 

[PSUPALY]

Very fair assessment.
From a very positive PSU perspective, you guys have 8 very winnable games in Kent State, Pitt, Temple, Minnesota, Maryland, Purdue, Indiana and Rutgers. Can see some fans getting antsy at less than 8 (minimum) seven wins. None of those games are cupcakes (especially Rutgers :boxing:), but if I am a PSU fan, those should be penciled in as very winnable games.

the games that are cupcakes in that list is Kent State and Purdue. the other games are winnable...meaning we'll be favored (I'd easily include Iowa as a winnable game at home in primetime), but we could easily lose them. We won't be favored against Pitt or Iowa.

we should beat Rutgers...but that doesn't mean we will. any game on the road is a toss up including Indiana along with Rutgers.

honestly, I have no idea what to expect from this team. I'd like to say I'll know more after Kent State, but after getting destroyed by Temple....I honestly thought we would only win 3 games last year, so I was wrong.....so blowing out Kent State could be ambiguous. I'll know more after the 1st 3 games combined. if we go 2-1...that includes winning convincingly over Kent State & Temple and barely losing to Pitt on the road, that would be acceptable and encouraging (though, it'll kill me to lose to Pitt)

too many unknowns in late June to make lofty predictions.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

They just had their top player trash Franklin for 3 months and get drafted by the jets second round. The quotes are out there. That's all these kids need to read..Franklin is a dead man walking. If they get a commit they're getting someone who is committing to the school, not the coach. Franklin is a good bet to be fired in the next year or two.

I guess you missed Hack's comments afterward and the stories calling those reports untrue? Hack has always handled himself professionally with the media, and it would be outside of the personality he showed for three years to throw his coaches under the bus during NFL interviews. I think it's a safe bet those reports were created/leaked by a team doing some draft posturing.

 

[PSUPALY]

Yeah, but your QB recruits have all come before Hack slid all the way down to the late 2nd round, and the chatter about how the staff did him no favors (and may have hindered him). It doesn't look like you've had a commit since the NFL Draft at the end of April, which is why I was wondering if you think it had any impact overall.

I suppose....but the QBs we have are so different from Hack. I just don't think it'll correlate into anything. Sean Clifford's been the leader of the 2017 recruiting class. If he decided to look around....it'll be because we tanked on the field.....not because Hack fell in the draft.

I mean, I guess if another PSU fan has a differing opinion.....I don't think Hack falling in the draft will or has affected recruiting at any other position.

and yes...we've had a gap in commits since the NFL draft....honestly don't think it means anything in regards to Hack. outside of Hack's slide (arguably, he was drafted higher than some people thought before the draft), we had 5 kids overall get drafted....which I would think helps PSU perception. again....don't think any of it means anything in regards to not getting any commits in 2 months since the draft.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

Very fair assessment.
With just a superficial look at Franklin's record at Vanderbilt, where he went 9-4 in seasons 2 and 3, one could expect greater things from him in year three at PSU. However, a closer look at the teams Vanderbilt beat in seasons 2 and 3 of Franklin diminishes the accomplishment. From a very positive PSU perspective, you guys have 8 very winnable games in Kent State, Pitt, Temple, Minnesota, Maryland, Purdue, Indiana and Rutgers. Can see some fans getting antsy at less than 8 (minimum) seven wins. None of those games are cupcakes (especially Rutgers :boxing:), but if I am a PSU fan, those should be penciled in as very winnable games.

The issues for this PSU team will be inexperience at QB, the development (or lack thereof) of the OL, depth at DL and LB, and how much special teams can improve with almost a full boat of scholarship athletes and now two scholarship specialists particularly.

I can only speak for myself, but since we're talking about expectations for this fall, I EXPECT to beat Kent St., Temple, Minnesota, Maryland, Purdue, Indiana and Rutgers. If we call Michigan and Ohio State losses, that would leave the team needing two wins against Pitt, Iowa and Michigan State to get to 9-3. That's an oversimplified look at the schedule, but given the team's youth, OL question marks, and lack of depth in spots, it's why 8-4 seems about right to me. That said, a lot of people will tell you I'm on the optimistic side with that prediction, including Vegas, which set the O/U at 6.5 wins.

 

[PSUPALY]

The issues for this PSU team will be inexperience at QB, the development (or lack thereof) of the OL, depth at DL and LB, and how much special teams can improve with almost a full boat of scholarship athletes and now two scholarship specialists particularly.

I can only speak for myself, but since we're talking about expectations for this fall, I EXPECT to beat Kent State, Temple, Minnesota, Maryland, Purdue, Indiana and Rutgers. If we call Michigan and Ohio State losses, that would leave the team needing two wins against Pitt, Iowa and Michigan State to get to 9-3. That's an oversimplified look at the schedule, but given the team's youth, OL question marks, and lack of depth in spots, it's why 8-4 seems about right to me. That said, a lot of people will tell you I'm on the optimistic side with that prediction, including Vegas, which set the O/U and 6.5 wins.

FIFY

 

[buffalochicken21]

Bullcrap on sanctions. Not buying that logic, loss of scholarships was so minimal it did nothing to the program. Talent was always there. The sanctions were nothing. Nothing.

Better question is why does Penn State still have a football program when they should've been shut down? It's the only question worth asking about that morally bankrupt cess poll.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

Bullcrap on sanctions. Not buying that logic, loss of scholarships was so minimal it did nothing to the program. Talent was always there. The sanctions were nothing. Nothing.

Better question is why does Penn State still have a football program when they should've been shut down? It's the only question worth asking about that moral cess poll.

Your first paragraph couldn't be more wrong.

I'll ignore the second in hopes of keeping a thread here on track for once.