I know we discuss this often. I only have observational evidence, but it seems like more than ever perception at a real nadir. I see patients with college age kids, and have friends with kids in school. I cant believe the way kids flock to Delaware and UConn and how noses seem to get turned up at Rutgers.
perception of rutgers in state
- Thread starter djrc89
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I think it's a mixed bag. But more than Delaware or UConn I was surprised to meet some folks that think Trenton State (College of NJ) is comparable. It's not awful by any extent and for some kids it is a better choice than RU. But it really is apples and oranges.
After the loss to Michigan, one of my coworkers said she doesn't understand why Rutgers thinks it can fit in this conference. She said the football team isn't competitive and even academically they aren't on the same level as the other schools in the Big Ten. I can understand thinking the football team doesn't belong if you don't understand recruiting, but academically not on the same level???? She went to Fairleigh Dickinson. I wanted to ask her if her diploma actually says Fairleigh Dickinson or if it just says Safety School, but I decided it was best to avoid an argument.
Talk about wasting money...RU is way better than those two and cheaper.
It ebbs and flows on how the football team is doing on the field.
When RU was winning FB games, everyone had nice things to say about Rutgers and people everywhere wore RU gear.
Now people make tasteless jokes about Rutgers because the FB team keeps losing.
When RU was winning FB games, everyone had nice things to say about Rutgers and people everywhere wore RU gear.
Now people make tasteless jokes about Rutgers because the FB team keeps losing.
RU still faces four issues in getting more of the top kids to go -
- New Brunswick, despite its many significant improvements, is still seen by many as a dangerous city crime-wise and when you take the ride from Cook/Douglass to College Avenue that view isn't necessarily assuaged
- Many people (sadly) find the great diversity at RU a negative
- The spread out nature of the campus
- The lack of history of significant amounts of upper middle class NJ'ers sending their kids to RU has become self-reinforcing and while UConn and Delaware are certainly not havens of the rich, they likely get more upper middle class NJ kids than we do due to, among other things, having campuses that are perceived to be in safer environments.
- New Brunswick, despite its many significant improvements, is still seen by many as a dangerous city crime-wise and when you take the ride from Cook/Douglass to College Avenue that view isn't necessarily assuaged
- Many people (sadly) find the great diversity at RU a negative
- The spread out nature of the campus
- The lack of history of significant amounts of upper middle class NJ'ers sending their kids to RU has become self-reinforcing and while UConn and Delaware are certainly not havens of the rich, they likely get more upper middle class NJ kids than we do due to, among other things, having campuses that are perceived to be in safer environments.
I don't think anyone would say Newark, DE or Storrs are great college towns. Ann Arbor or Chapel Hill is one thing. UDel and Storrs are not close to that. Having been to UDel I think RU has a nicer campus. UDel also has buses to get around.
I do agree the area between Rockoff and Douglass needs serious improvement.
I do agree the area between Rockoff and Douglass needs serious improvement.
It starts with the self-loathing people in this state. Trickles down to people who have no idea what Rutgers is all about except what they read in the headlines when the Star Ledger bashes us. The perception needs to change but it starts with public relations which the school doesn't do well with IMO and also marketing which is below par with what other B1G schools and even schools in our own state. Billboards are not the answer. Full on Traditional Media/Online Medis needs to be done to show the benefits of the school not only to recruits but to their parents and neighbors. Perception is everything.
Storrs has no town. Newark, DE is not Madison, WI but it is a very good college town. They have built many new retail buildings in town with modern apartments above. Many more new off-campus new apartments than at RU.
UD is a good choice for a student wanting a mid-size school environment. Total enrollment of 23,000.
UD is a good choice for a student wanting a mid-size school environment. Total enrollment of 23,000.
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Diversity is a negative for some....particularly upper class kids want to go with people like themselves...its just the way it is...same as minorities want to go to Rutgers because they will be around people like themselves
I'm not sure the perception of Rutgers is that bad, at least in South Jersey. (Mind you, I'm not a NJ native. Some Garden State nuances still go over my head). When I tell people my son graduated from Rutgers, it usually goes like this:
me: "My son graduated from Rutgers."
[blank look] "Rutgers-Camden?"
me: "New Brunswick."
[positive-looking smile] : Oh! Nice! That's a good school!"
Obviously it's anecdotal, and nobody wants to tell me my son went to a bad school, but that's what I see.
me: "My son graduated from Rutgers."
[blank look] "Rutgers-Camden?"
me: "New Brunswick."
[positive-looking smile] : Oh! Nice! That's a good school!"
Obviously it's anecdotal, and nobody wants to tell me my son went to a bad school, but that's what I see.
partly the blame of the school and it's management of perception and alumni relations
partly to blame by the legislature that is made up of alums mostly of other schools
partly to blame of NJ as we may have beaten the French with the invention of the 'critique' lol
partly to blame by the legislature that is made up of alums mostly of other schools
partly to blame of NJ as we may have beaten the French with the invention of the 'critique' lol
A
anon_ivydyf0amkzay
Guest
28 years of not living in NJ has taught me that Rutgers has a GREAT reputation outside of the state...lots "oh! Rutgers! Nice! That's a great school!" I rarely got that reaction from NJ folk...my anecdotal "evidence"
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Michigan has a spread out campus and buses. Duke has a spread out campus with buses. Etc, etc, etc. It is far from a unique Rutgers thing as noted above with Delaware.
I was in NJ this weekend for my 35th HS reunion from Jackson and there were about 100 grads there. Additionally on Friday I drove from LGA down to Jackson and all over the Shore Area on Saturday. Two things stuck out:
I was shocked by the lack of RU stuff. R magnets, sweatshirts, hats, etc. Granted I live in a place where every other person is clothed in UF or FSU gear most of the time but really disappointed and have to say less stuff than I've seen in the past.
At the reunion, many parents talking college. While I by no means talked to them all, I heard not one mention of Rutgers. I didn't want to get into a debate but I heard not one NJ parent mentioned that there kid graduated, was going to or was considering Rutgers.
Very strange.
I was shocked by the lack of RU stuff. R magnets, sweatshirts, hats, etc. Granted I live in a place where every other person is clothed in UF or FSU gear most of the time but really disappointed and have to say less stuff than I've seen in the past.
At the reunion, many parents talking college. While I by no means talked to them all, I heard not one mention of Rutgers. I didn't want to get into a debate but I heard not one NJ parent mentioned that there kid graduated, was going to or was considering Rutgers.
Very strange.
The further away you go the better it gets. When I went to the West Coast on a business trip, Rutgers was look at like a Ivy league school.
People from China and India look at it the same way. Most foreign students are from those two countries.
IMHO, It is little bother syndrome from living next to NYC in North Jersey and Philly in South Jersey. In Central Jersey Rutgers is seen in a much greater light. Tons of Block Rs everywhere. Kids going as Rutgers Football players for Halloween, etc.
I think this plays a big part in it.
Was in NJ recently and was surprised at how many people disrespected the institution. Never saw such disdain for the state university in other parts of the country except the Northeast.
here's an article from a few years ago (2011) that shows that 40% of NJ students go to school out of state. I doubt that the numbers have changed significantly.
outside of NJ Rutgers has a great reputation. Inside of NJ, Rutgers has NJ dot Com creating it's reputation.
Neither of my kids went to RU, in part because they saw their friends treating it as a commuter school, going home on the weekends and as an extension of HS, more importantly, they received a lot more money offered to them from other schools. My youngest applied to 12 schools ...every one of them, except Rutgers, offered her at least $5000. She eventually chose a small, private school that offered her $18,000 a year. With that applied to her tuition it came out to the same price as staying home for Rutgers.
outside of NJ Rutgers has a great reputation. Inside of NJ, Rutgers has NJ dot Com creating it's reputation.
Neither of my kids went to RU, in part because they saw their friends treating it as a commuter school, going home on the weekends and as an extension of HS, more importantly, they received a lot more money offered to them from other schools. My youngest applied to 12 schools ...every one of them, except Rutgers, offered her at least $5000. She eventually chose a small, private school that offered her $18,000 a year. With that applied to her tuition it came out to the same price as staying home for Rutgers.
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I live in Chester and most parents and kids look down at Rutgers. One friend of my daughter said she would ruin her life if she went there. Her freshman roommate transferred because of the diversity and she didn't realize how hard it would be. She went to South Carolina. She failed Chemistry at Rutgers but said it was very easy at SC. When we visited out of state colleges, almost all of the locals thought Rutgers was a very hard school and were impressed my kid might go there.
One thing you are overlooking is that a lot of kids just want to get away from home. Rutgers' location makes it within an hour's drive for most of the state. That's just a little to close to home for a lot of kids.
It is a perception thing.
As we see in the election, our country is very polarized right now. A lot of the upper middle class and wealthy kids want private schools or out of state schools with a student body of a similar view as theirs. Penn St is over 68% white while Rutgers is about 44% white.
Probably close to 40% of the NJ population is within 25 miles of New Brunswick. To many families that is considered not going away to school since they commute further for work. Those in Westfield, Warren, Marlboro, Manalapan, Bridgewater, etc... are literally commutable to Rutgers where the kids would rather go out of state. this time of year we see all the Penn St kids doing Thon in their NJ home towns. While it is a good cause it is also a way of them putting their nose in the air thinking they are better for going out of state to school.
NJ's population is made up of many who grew up outside of NJ (other states or even other countries) and live in NJ because of proximity to NYC. A lot of PA, CT, MD, and surrounding state alumni live in NJ because of work. They may have went to the out of state schools we don't like.
If comparing locally Rutgers is a step down vs. Princeton, Columbia, UPenn, and NYU academically. Many big state schools do not have so many top schools nearby. While Rutgers career services is good Goldman Sachs and Google are likely to go to the other schools mentioned above in this paragraph to recruit vs. Rutgers.
If looking at costs many times kids are not getting any grants / scholarships to attend Rutgers so they pay the full cost where if they go to an out of state public or private school they get grants / scholarships that make the cost comparable to Rutgers. I have heard of kids going to FDU and Monmouth for the same price or less as attending Rutgers ir TCNJ.
The biggest perception issue is the politics of NJ. Rutgers gets a lot of bad press because of many admin screw-ups. With high taxes in state every dollar going to a state school is looked at carefully by residents.
As we see in the election, our country is very polarized right now. A lot of the upper middle class and wealthy kids want private schools or out of state schools with a student body of a similar view as theirs. Penn St is over 68% white while Rutgers is about 44% white.
Probably close to 40% of the NJ population is within 25 miles of New Brunswick. To many families that is considered not going away to school since they commute further for work. Those in Westfield, Warren, Marlboro, Manalapan, Bridgewater, etc... are literally commutable to Rutgers where the kids would rather go out of state. this time of year we see all the Penn St kids doing Thon in their NJ home towns. While it is a good cause it is also a way of them putting their nose in the air thinking they are better for going out of state to school.
NJ's population is made up of many who grew up outside of NJ (other states or even other countries) and live in NJ because of proximity to NYC. A lot of PA, CT, MD, and surrounding state alumni live in NJ because of work. They may have went to the out of state schools we don't like.
If comparing locally Rutgers is a step down vs. Princeton, Columbia, UPenn, and NYU academically. Many big state schools do not have so many top schools nearby. While Rutgers career services is good Goldman Sachs and Google are likely to go to the other schools mentioned above in this paragraph to recruit vs. Rutgers.
If looking at costs many times kids are not getting any grants / scholarships to attend Rutgers so they pay the full cost where if they go to an out of state public or private school they get grants / scholarships that make the cost comparable to Rutgers. I have heard of kids going to FDU and Monmouth for the same price or less as attending Rutgers ir TCNJ.
The biggest perception issue is the politics of NJ. Rutgers gets a lot of bad press because of many admin screw-ups. With high taxes in state every dollar going to a state school is looked at carefully by residents.
I spent about a year in durham while my fiancée was finishing law school at Duke. It has east campus and west campus... the bus system essentially connects the two and off housing campus... it is tiny and condense compared to Rutgers. Probably the most beautiful campus I've stepped on to be honest... I love my Rutgers and the out of state and out of country perception so great. Just us New Jersey folk think of it as a safety school.
I grew up in NJ and Rutgers was not on the list of schools I applied to, largely because it was too close to home. And with so many kids from my high school going to RU, it almost seemed like it would just be an extension of high school in a way. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but I don't recall "looking down" on RU as a college choice; it just wasn't for me. Once I visited Penn State I knew where I'd be going. Just felt right.
Storrs is quite safe as long as your dorm is not near the MBB team...
And Delaware it's 77% and UConn it's 64%. That doesn't matter to everybody but does to some.
Again, that matters to some but not others
There you have the alum factor working against RU.
Another fair point.
Beyond lack of grants, the segment of the population we're speaking about has the cash to invest some extra to go to the "cool" schools.
And to top it off you have a state where the institutions that should be supporting RU essentially eat their own.
Not sure how old everyone on this thread is, but I'm in my early 20s and I've been living in Texas (Houston) for three years now...there's a big difference between the generations...all my older coworkers believe Rutgers is a good school...whereas all my younger friends and coworkers here feel that it is an average school. Obviously, that has to do with us, younger folks, being misinformed and having social media guide our perceptions..but it's scary to think that some of these same folks will make hiring decisions in the future and look down upon RU
And yes, I do my best to show and convince them that RU is a great school
This is an interesting point. NJ's compact geography probably doesn't help. In other states, at least in the south and west, you can go "away" to college while staying in state. RU is basically a commuter college for much of the state's population. One of the reasons I really didn't want to go to RU. Then again, going to Delaware or Uconn doesn't exactly seem like an exotic getaway.
among others, this pearl: "....you people....your community..."
Once again
50,000 kids graduate NJ high schools each year
6,500 Freshmen enroll at Rutgers each year
These kids aren't going to Delaware & UConn because it's a better campus or to avoid diversity or to get away. There's no spot for them at Rutgers. If you have 150 kids in your graduating class and you are outside of the top 20, your class ranking is below the 13% that Rutgers will take. It's actually lower once you consider OOS & specialized school admissions. New Jersey effectively throws away many good students every year because there's no spot for them at the one large state university.
Everybody likes to think their kid is the brightest lightbulb, but Rutgers isn't the safety school is was when we all applied so many years ago.
And that's a good thing. Maybe Rowan, Willie Pat & Montclair should step it up to keep all these amazing kids in state.
I have relatives in the Phoenix area. Arizona St is similar to Rutgers because Tempe is so close to Phoenix and Scottsdale. Over there the University of Arizona is considered the cool state school where Az st is looked upon as an extension to high school / commuter school. I can guess that UCLA is like that too with a lot of local LA kids.
And many in Pennsy feel the same about going to State College, right? You know, with so many from their HS, it's an extension of same. There's a certain truth to this but it likely exists in all 50 states, to varying degrees. But then, if the schools are so big (enrollment-wise and physical campus size/spread), why worry all that much about it....you may never bump into a single one in 4 years.
Scarlet Scourge, you are right on. I have been a resident of Florida for twenty five years and when I am asked where I went to college and I reply Rutgers it is almost automatic. that I get'"oh you went to an Ivy League school".As far as those in New Jersey who disrespect Rutgers mostof them could not gain entrance into Rutgers with crow bar.Have a safe day and lock and load and rock and roll.
I'm sure that's the case for some people in PA. Where State College might benefit in this discussion is the physical distance from home is likely greater for most prospective students, which might help negate the fact that many of their HS classmates are also going. Rutgers would have been a half hour from home for me, and like others have touched on already, that's a far cry from "going away to school."
Virtually no one in my circle left State College on weekends, and very few people would in general. You're living in a bubble with 40,000 people your age. I can't say for sure, obviously, not having been a student at RU, but given the proximity to a lot of students' hometowns, the spread-out campus, etc., I don't think I could have replicated that student experience in New Brunswick.
I could see that.
I remember watching the Cal-Stanford game a year or two ago, and Stanford fans were yelling "safety school" at Cal fans. Seemed like the same type of snooty attitude we get here at RU (didn't get into an Ivy or the popular out-of-state school of the moment, so must be your safety school).
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