Pike's Freshmen

[DocRU]

On occasion we've seen RU freshmen tease us about a true resurgence of the program. Almost always, just 1 player at a time though. Miles Mack, Eli Carter, Corey Sanders. Further back Mike Rosario, the Billets, Dahntay Jones, maybe even Corey Chandler.
Never an entire class like we're seeing now. Mathis, Harper, McConnell. 3 true freshmen, all have flashed. Think back to the early days of November/December. All bench players with limited minutes.
2 are now starters, and Caleb just had a game that Phil Sellers would be proud of.
RU fans have been promised a rebuild (really build) by so many coaches for so long, that we think the word doesn't exist in Piscataway. But I think we're finally seeing something. I don't know what it is. RU basketball doesn't get better in February. The team never improves in late winter. This is traditionally when the losses pile up so fast, we lose count. What is going on? Is a rebuild/build really happening?
Could it be? At last?

 

[sct1111]

Don't forget Myles. I know he's a redshirt but he's got just as much if not more potential than anyone on the team

 

[goru7]

On occasion we've seen RU freshmen tease us about a true resurgence of the program. Almost always, just 1 player at a time though. Miles Mack, Eli Carter, Corey Sanders. Further back Mike Rosario, the Billets, Dahntay Jones, maybe even Corey Chandler.
Never an entire class like we're seeing now. Mathis, Harper, McConnell. 3 true freshmen, all have flashed. Think back to the early days of November/December. All bench players with limited minutes.
2 are now starters, and Caleb just had a game that Phil Sellers would be proud of.
RU fans have been promised a rebuild (really build) by so many coaches for so long, that we think the word doesn't exist in Piscataway. But I think we're finally seeing something. I don't know what it is. RU basketball doesn't get better in February. The team never improves in late winter. This is traditionally when the losses pile up so fast, we lose count. What is going on? Is a rebuild/build really happening?
Could it be? At last?

This freshman class from November to now have gotten better to now and I really think these last 7 games then the Big 10 tourney will see them even better. The confidence is at an all time high for all of them as when anyone of them has the ball I think good things are going to happen. I have hardly ever felt that way about any one of our freshman and maybe any one of our players ever.

 

[knights1212]

All 4 of them are bringing us many thrills and hopefully many more over the next three years.

 

[Upstream]

Interesting that most of the names you mentioned are players who considered leaving after their freshman or sophomore year. Hopefully this class of freshman stay around.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

On occasion we've seen RU freshmen tease us about a true resurgence of the program. Almost always, just 1 player at a time though.

This actually isn't true.

FIG came in together.

Carter, Mack, Jack and Seagears all came together.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think the remaining 8+ games are very important to get a feel of what the future holds for the program.

Can we tighten up defense?
How can the newcomers fit in a half court offense?

I am not as bullish as most on the newcomers as it relates to winning in the B10. It is a tough league and it isn't uncommon for freshman to make big impacts.

 

[DocRU]

On occasion we've seen RU freshmen tease us about a true resurgence of the program. Almost always, just 1 player at a time though.

This actually isn't true.

FIG came in together.

Carter, Mack, Jack and Seagears all came together.

No one in FIG impressed in freshmen years. I’ll give you Mack and Carter.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

No one in FIG impressed in freshmen years.

That is wrong on so many levels. Anthony Farmer was given the keys to the offense on Day 1 and averaged 32+ MPG. JR Inman was also a starter from Day 1 and then got hurt badly and was out for the year.

This was a team close to the NCAA bubble. I realize Douby had a career year, but FIG had huge expectations off of their freshmen year.

JR Inman was the player that we all are yearning for right now.

 

[Goku]

This actually isn't true.

FIG came in together.

Carter, Mack, Jack and Seagears all came together.

FIG may have come together, but not to a final combined product that was all that impressive.

Carter, Mack, Jack and Seagears just didn't come together. I don't know why you want to make and defend that stance.

 

[JQRU91]

Interesting that most of the names you mentioned are players who considered leaving after their freshman or sophomore year. Hopefully this class of freshman stay around.

This is a good point. But I think this group will have reason to stay.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

FIG may have come together, but not to a final combined product that was all that impressive.

Carter, Mack, Jack and Seagears just didn't come together. I don't know why you want to make and defend that stance.

This is crazy.

1. I thought we were talking about expectation as freshman.
2. Farmer, Inman, Carter, Jack and Mack were all VERY good players for all us. We can only hope that 1 or 2 of these freshmen play to the level of one of these 5.

 

[zebnatto]

I think with the current group we’re looking at He sum being greater than the parts.

 

[kcg88]

Inman's best season was as a freshman. Mack's was as a sophomore. Farmer's was as a junior but he regressed badly as a sophomore.

We need guys to be getting better all four years.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If the barometer is a 10-10 B1G team I think it is very difficult at this stage of their careers to see how/where they fit on that type of team.

20% through their respective careers I think they all need a lot of improvement to be 25+ MPG guys. All of them. Mathis is the closest.

 

[RUJMM78]

I think the remaining 8+ games are very important to get a feel of what the future holds for the program.

Can we tighten up defense?
How can the newcomers fit in a half court offense?

I am not as bullish as most on the newcomers as it relates to winning in the B10. It is a tough league and it isn't uncommon for freshman to make big impacts.

Improvement in players performance always has to be compared to the competition .For example, lllinois started 2 freshmen and 2 sophomores and they were the equal to or better than Rutgers under class men.The same can be said of other league teams.

At the end of the day teams will be evaluated by league standings and not by the composition of the squad as to years of playing experience.

 

[knights1212]

Farmer was pretty good but he didn't get many assists. He only averaged 2.5 apg as a junior and 2.7 apg as a senior. Inman was good but for whatever reason he hardly played for Hill as a senior. Jack didn't do much until his junior year when he was very impressive. His senior year was a bit disappointing as he hung out too often on the perimeter and shot quite a few threes to try and impress the NBA scouts. Carter left after 2 years with a broken leg and finished at Florida and a grad year at Boston College. Mack had an outstanding career.

I hope that our current four freshmen all stay for 4 years and continue to improve. They seem like a close knit group and a special group. They all have talent and have our team moving in a upward projection. They can be remembered for a long time in RU B-Ball history if they can lead us to the Big Dance. I am pulling for all of them. I believe that they along with Young, Mulcahy and Baker along with one or two other guys can get us there. Carter is huge too but he only has one more year. Kiss can be a contributing member too if he just plays his role. I love this group of guys.

 

[RUChoppin]

The 2005-06 and 2011-12 freshman years both showed flashes of a potential upward trajectory.... but both also then dealt with a HC change and never met that potential.

In the event of the former, Farmer and Inman both showed glimmers of hope for the future, with Griffin in more of a reserve capacity, and during the season we were thinking about their sophomore year alongside a senior Douby and possibly freshman Lance Thomas. Then Waters was let go, FHJ was hired, Thomas went to Duke, and Douby went pro... and those glimmers winked out pretty quickly.

In the event of the latter, Mack, Carter, and Seagears all showed glimmers of hope for the future, with Jack coming in mid-season and not really performing very well yet. Their sophomore year also showed some promise, but then the Rice scandal hit, he was fired, and those promising freshmen ended up with EJ.

Really hoping this current crop's potential is realized, and that Pike is with them and progressing the team each year until they're seniors.

 

[bac2therac]

No one in FIG impressed in freshmen years. I’ll give you Mack and Carter.

disagree big time...Farmer was getting significant minutes and key cog. Inman was very very effective his freshmen year and then got hampered by a broken leg. You are clouded by what happened during the Fred Hill years but these two were impressive

 

[bac2therac]

but the point remains we have a bunch of freshmen showing the promise, in the past frosh either didnt get better or the surrounding cast fell apart or they transferred out. So its what happens next year and the year after. Its a promising bunch for sure and collectively might be ahead of some of these other classes but that Carter/Mack class saw them have to contribute significant early as well

 

[AreYouNUTS]

I think with the current group we’re looking at He sum being greater than the parts.

This group is better, as a whole, no question,

 

[Degaz-RU]

The 2005-06 and 2011-12 freshman years both showed flashes of a potential upward trajectory.... but both also then dealt with a HC change and never met that potential.

In the event of the former, Farmer and Inman both showed glimmers of hope for the future, with Griffin in more of a reserve capacity, and during the season we were thinking about their sophomore year alongside a senior Douby and possibly freshman Lance Thomas. Then Waters was let go, FHJ was hired, Thomas went to Duke, and Douby went pro... and those glimmers winked out pretty quickly.

In the event of the latter, Mack, Carter, and Seagears all showed glimmers of hope for the future, with Jack coming in mid-season and not really performing very well yet. Their sophomore year also showed some promise, but then the Rice scandal hit, he was fired, and those promising freshmen ended up with EJ.

Really hoping this current crop's potential is realized, and that Pike is with them and progressing the team each year until they're seniors.

Geez, when you lay it out like that, it just shows how cursed this program seems to be. And that's not even counting how positive things looked in the early Bannon years before that program imploded due to scandal, and how positive things seemed in the first year or two with FHJ (who recruited Chandler, Rosario, etc.). Every time we seem to be "on the verge" of something, the evil gods intercede to take it away from us, to wit:

- Bannon gets us to the Big East quarterfinals, but then decides it would be a good idea to have his players perform naked free throws. Lawsuits ensue, program is done.

- Waters lands Coleman and then FIG, brings some respectability, excitement, top 25 wins, gets us to the NIT Final, and then Uncle Bob decides to manufacture a way to get rid of him so that he can hire Fred Hill, Jr. (who had never been a head coach). Snowgate, anyone?

- FHJ brings in top 100 talent in Rosario, Chandler, Echenique, but is completely incompetent as a coach, and then Uncle Bob manufactures a way to get rid of HIM too. Baseball-gate, anyone?

- Mike Rice brings in Jonathan Mitchell and then the Mack, Jack, Seagears, etc. class (7 guys in total), gets upset wins over Florida and then UConn, but then decides it's a good idea to throw basketballs at players' heads and hurl epithets at them (and had the unfortunate happenstance of hiring, and then firing, Erick Murdock). A scandal for the ages ensues, and the program hits rock bottom (again).

- Eddie Jordan was the wrong hire from the get-go. Just not a college coach. He did bring back a modicum of respectability to the program (off the court), but the program was an utter embarrassment on the court. 92-31 anyone?

Is this time, with Pike, different? Or will Lucy pull away the football (basketball?) yet again?

 

[RUChoppin]

Geez, when you lay it out like that, it just shows how cursed this program seems to be. And that's not even counting how positive things looked in the early Bannon years before that program imploded due to scandal, and how positive things seemed in the first year or two with FHJ (who recruited Chandler, Rosario, etc.). Every time we seem to be "on the verge" of something, the evil gods intercede to take it away from us, to wit:

- Bannon gets us to the Big East quarterfinals, but then decides it would be a good idea to have his players perform naked free throws. Lawsuits ensue, program is done.

- Waters lands Coleman and then FIG, brings some respectability, excitement, top 25 wins, gets us to the NIT Final, and then Uncle Bob decides to manufacture a way to get rid of him so that he can hire Fred Hill, Jr. (who had never been a head coach). Snowgate, anyone?

- FHJ brings in top 100 talent in Rosario, Chandler, Echenique, but is completely incompetent as a coach, and then Uncle Bob manufactures a way to get rid of HIM too. Baseball-gate, anyone?

- Mike Rice brings in Jonathan Mitchell and then the Mack, Jack, Seagears, etc. class (7 guys in total), gets upset wins over Florida and then UConn, but then decides it's a good idea to throw basketballs at players' heads and hurl epithets at them (and had the unfortunate happenstance of hiring, and then firing, Erick Murdock). A scandal for the ages ensues, and the program hits rock bottom (again).

- Eddie Jordan was the wrong hire from the get-go. Just not a college coach. He did bring back a modicum of respectability to the program (off the court), but the program was an utter embarrassment on the court. 92-31 anyone?

Is this time, with Pike, different? Or will Lucy pull away the football (basketball?) yet again?

Just a small thing, but Rice didn't bring in Mitchell - that was FHJ. But FHJ mishandled Ech (leading to transfer) and Chandler imploded (dismissed).

That was another freshman duo that performed really well in their first year, though - Rosario/Echenique. They were also hit with a HC change after their sophomore season, and both transferred (though I think Ech announced his transfer before FHJ was let go).

 

[Arizona Knight]

Eddie Jordan was the wrong hire from the get-go. Just not a college coach. He did bring back a modicum of respectability to the program (off the court), but the program was an utter embarrassment on the court. 92-31 anyone?

That Louisville game was the worst.

 

[RUChoppin]

I think this is the first year going back at least couple decades, though, that we've had four freshmen reach game highs of at least 13 points? (McConnell 25, Mathis 20, Harper 15, Johnson 13). Also the first time in at least a couple decades where we've had four freshmen averaging at least 4 ppg.

Granted, most years we didn't even have four freshmen... but the only other year I could find dating back to the 90s with even 3 freshmen averaging 4 ppg or more was 2011-12 with Carter, Mack, and Seagears.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think this is the first year going back at least couple decades, though, that we've had four freshmen reach game highs of at least 13 points? (McConnell 25, Mathis 20, Harper 15, Johnson 13). Also the first time in at least a couple decades where we've had four freshmen averaging at least 4 ppg.

Granted, most years we didn't even have four freshmen... but the only other year I could find dating back to the 90s with even 3 freshmen averaging 4 ppg or more was 2011-12 with Carter, Mack, and Seagears.

A lot of that is a function of Eddie Jordan

 

[RUChoppin]

A lot of that is a function of Eddie Jordan

In that we needed a big freshman class this year?

 

[RUDutch]

Or will Lucy pull away the football (basketball?) yet again?

Anyone else think of Jellyman when they read this? I believe that was his avatar.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

In that we needed a big freshman class this year?

We don't have many upperclassmen who are playing big minutes

 

[RutgHoops]

I agree with the OP. Couple that with the fact that Coach P appears to best HC we've had at player development in what feels like forever and one has to be at least somewhat optimistic.

And not withstanding FIG and Coach Rice's stellar class, (imo) our best frosh class in the last two decades was Douby/Webb/Joynes.

 

[RUChoppin]

We don't have many upperclassmen who are playing big minutes

Gotcha - thought that's where you were going with that. It's true we are short on upperclassmen - but that's sort of split between EJ/Pike on why. Sanders went pro, and Laurent and Diallo transferred after a year with Pike. But another part of it were the whiffs on Bullock and Mensah and the decline of Thiam.

Still, happy to have the four freshmen we have, and I think it sets us up really well for the future. Need to hit with the two open scholarships, though, to keep this train rolling.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

i blame coaching carousel...very little on pike

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

the growth and development is tremendous. I think the future is brighter now than it has been since the 90's. Next years team is a legitimate bubble team. People are going to say hold your horses but I am telling you, this is a bubble team next year.

In regards to what I perceive will be 2 more schollys to dish out in the 2019 class, my #1 priority is a legit front court player, ideally a stretch 4. Personally I hit the transfer market hardddd for this. There are some really good sit out transfers every year and we don't need 12 scholly guys next year, we can afford to rock with 11 and have 1 guy sit on the bench as a sit out transfer. I'd also target a grad transfer 4 who's just a guy who can bang for 10 minutes or so a night and be called upon in case injury strike Eugene next year.

Our backcourt next year is going to be realllly damn good. Mulcahy, Geo, Young, Montez, Caleb, Harper (he can play the stretch 4 role too) and then up front you have Eugene, Shaq C and Myles.and then you have kiss, issa and duke, I don't see any reasons to play any of them with the guys we have and I expect at least one of them to transfer.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

the growth and development is tremendous. I think the future is brighter now than it has been since the 90's. Next years team is a legitimate bubble team. People are going to say hold your horses but I am telling you, this is a bubble team next year.

In regards to what I perceive will be 2 more schollys to dish out in the 2019 class, my #1 priority is a legit front court player, ideally a stretch 4. Personally I hit the transfer market hardddd for this. There are some really good sit out transfers every year and we don't need 12 scholly guys next year, we can afford to rock with 11 and have 1 guy sit on the bench as a sit out transfer. I'd also target a grad transfer 4 who's just a guy who can bang for 10 minutes or so a night and be called upon in case injury strike Eugene next year.

Our backcourt next year is going to be realllly damn good. Mulcahy, Geo, Young, Montez, Caleb, Harper (he can play the stretch 4 role too) and then up front you have Eugene, Shaq C and Myles.and then you have kiss, issa and duke, I don't see any reasons to play any of them with the guys we have and I expect at least one of them to transfer.

You see it the same way I see it

We really could be a bubble team if we come ready in November to play (need 9-2 out of confennce) and we learn to how to win and close out games (higher percentage)....and defend better

 

[mikefla]

It wasnt that long ago(earlier in the season) some here where complaining Pike couldnt recruit
and the team wasnt going to do well:chairshot:

It just took awhile for our frosh to mature
and
I always said our :boom:fabulous frosh:boom:...are right on schedule...
[banana]---------:boxing:---------[cheers]-------------:boxing:------------[banana]

 

[Night Man]

JR Inman's most efficient ball was his freshman year, easily. Farmer was steady all 4 years incl frosh.

I think the big Rice class could have done more if he hadn't lost the team

 

[RUHouston]

You see it the same way I see it

We really could be a bubble team if we come ready in November to play (need 9-2 out of confennce) and we learn to how to win and close out games (higher percentage)....and defend better

Adding to these comments... if we could just hit 4-6 more FREE throws per game, or more, our number of wins may increase....

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

defense....

 

[kcg88]

defense....

Biggest defensive dropoffs have been 3P% and TO%. First one is somewhat luck-based but we definitely need better closeouts. Second one I'll chalk up to youth because we definitely have the length to cause problems.

In Big Ten play we're generating turnovers on just 14.4% of possessions, compared to 19.9% last year. In a 65 possession game, that's nearly four more possessions ending in a shot rather than a turnover. Opponents are averaging 1.08 points per possession against us, and that stat includes the possessions that end in turnovers. Bump that to maybe 1.15 for possessions that end with a shot (it's probably even higher) and it's an additional 4.6 points per game allowed simply because we're not creating turnovers.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

After Purdue and Minnesota games Pikiell gave minutes to what he thought were the best defensive players (and stopped playing zone).

We then went 4 straight games under 1.00 PPP.

Since those 4 games 3 terrible defensive games.1.27, 1.17,1.16.

Don't be surprised to see Issa back in the rotation.