Tom made no bones about how he viewed Fred ‘s decision to stick with the eastern 8 and Paterno
And he went around Fred and let Eddie B know about it …
And he went around Fred and let Eddie B know about it …
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Eddie was long to play for Yom at American. Tim got his old AD's permission to take him.Tom Young was a very good coach, really understood what he had and how to use it, (was also a genuinely nice guy, inherited Sellers, Dabney, Palko, Scherer, and Kleinbaum from Lloyd/Vitale. Young recruited Jordan, Colin, Bailey, not sure about Copeland. Did a great job with under the radar guys similar to Pike, biggest issue was recruiting, go undefeated end up in the final four and sign no one, thats a whole other story. Also that was a different Era no internet, recruiting was so much more geographical, Tom's roots were in the DC area. Interestingly Jordan had virtually no offers and Tom picked him up from A.B. Carroll H.S. his first year very late in the cycle, think he had only one other offer from Loyola of Chicago.
Final 4 year SI ranked is for the first time preseason, #16. Expectations were high.Thanks for the answers. Sounds like a fair amount of similarities between the two. How high were expectations going into the Final Four year?
I was going to ask this too. Disappointing that the timing wasn’t right for us specifically with Valvano.
Wow. If true, Fred had some issues.I was young enough that people said things in front of me that they should but have said. I knew, before have, that Fred would not hire Vitale because he was, "too ethnic"
Tom recruited multiple guys who had long NBA careers -- Jordan, Bailey, Battle and one, Hinson, who was on his way to a perennial All-Star career before a really bad knee injury cut it shortTom Young was a very good coach, really understood what he had and how to use it, (was also a genuinely nice guy, inherited Sellers, Dabney, Palko, Scherer, and Kleinbaum from Lloyd/Vitale. Young recruited Jordan, Colin, Bailey, not sure about Copeland. Did a great job with under the radar guys similar to Pike, biggest issue was recruiting, go undefeated end up in the final four and sign no one, thats a whole other story. Also that was a different Era no internet, recruiting was so much more geographical, Tom's roots were in the DC area. Interestingly Jordan had virtually no offers and Tom picked him up from A.B. Carroll H.S. his first year very late in the cycle, think he had only one other offer from Loyola of Chicago.
Tom recruited several guys who had long NBA careers -- Jordan, Bailey, Battle and one, Hinson, who was on his way to being a perennial All-Star before a bad knee injury cut it short. This is the one area that Young has a big edge over all the other coaches at RU, including PikeTom was just an ok recruiter. The top two scorers on the Final Four team were recruited by the previous coaching staff (Dick Vitale). He was very good at developing players. Bailey and Hinson were not highly rated recruits. Battle was a good recruit who developed into an NBA player under Young. Good game coach but could be too stubborn at times. Good x's and o's guy. Overall I think Young and Pike are pretty even. I'd give Young the edge on offense coaching and Pike the edge on defense. Young played easier schedules, didnt have to compete in the Big Ten. But Young still gets the edge until Pike goes to a Final Four.
This discussion puzzles me. It is obvious that Steve has done a tremendous job. But he should not be in the same sentence with Tom yet. And yet is the key word here. Tom got Rutgers to the promised land. Tom had Rutgers ranked no.3 in the country. Tom developed under the radar players who actually played and had successful NBA careers. He was not a great recruiter, but ended up with great players. His defensive press was legendary and the 75-62 win at Jadwin over a great Princeton team looked like 8 against 5 defensively. Rutgers was actually a one point favorite over Michigan in Philly and 79 Rutgers was probably the third best team in the country. And wait. Bill Foster was a great coach who recruited Bob and Jimmy and made the epic NIT run when the NIT meant everything. No less a player than Clyde told me what a great team and program Rutgers was. Bill made his reputation at Duke,but more than started the basketball run at Rutgers. And he had to play top ten teams in Princeton,Columbia and Penn almost every year. Tom is tier one and Steve and Bill are for different reasons a lofty tier 2.Young told me that the expectations for recruiting coming off the Final Four were a bit unrealistic. He said that players aren't going to commit off one good year, for the team and that it takes a couple of years of contact with the player to establish a relationship.
That may be true, but not making the NCAA's two years in a row after 76 hurt a lot, followed by the BE decision, kind of was the beginning of the end.
The one that really hurt was the 1978 team. 21-5 regular season. Now that would have been a likely top 4 seed. But an opening EAA tournament loss sent us to the NIT.
In all fairness, if they had today's set up for the NCAA Tournament with 68 teams, those two teams would have been in easily and very well could have made an incredible runYoung told me that the expectations for recruiting coming off the Final Four were a bit unrealistic. He said that players aren't going to commit off one good year, for the team and that it takes a couple of years of contact with the player to establish a relationship.
That may be true, but not making the NCAA's two years in a row after 76 hurt a lot, followed by the BE decision, kind of was the beginning of the end.
The one that really hurt was the 1978 team. 21-5 regular season. Now that would have been a likely top 4 seed. But an opening EAA tournament loss sent us to the NIT.
Not sure what you are talking about with the beginning part. We were getting Billy Bryant and Jo Jo Hunter until Lefty swept in and stole them when RU went on their trip to Rome.Young told me that the expectations for recruiting coming off the Final Four were a bit unrealistic. He said that players aren't going to commit off one good year, for the team and that it takes a couple of years of contact with the player to establish a relationship.
That may be true, but not making the NCAA's two years in a row after 76 hurt a lot, followed by the BE decision, kind of was the beginning of the end.
The one that really hurt was the 1978 team. 21-5 regular season. Now that would have been a likely top 4 seed. But an opening EAA tournament loss sent us to the NIT.
I think Steve should be in the same sentence as Tom Young right now, because Pike has been wildly successful, very quickly after inheriting a team devoid of talent, something that Tom didn’t do. Tom gets full credit for developing Rutgers into an Eastern Hoops power in the 70s. Pike is developing us into the same thing, but from a substantially worse starting point. Like a really bad starting point.This discussion puzzles me. It is obvious that Steve has done a tremendous job. But he should not be in the same sentence with Tom yet. And yet is the key word here. Tom got Rutgers to the promised land. Tom had Rutgers ranked no.3 in the country. Tom developed under the radar players who actually played and had successful NBA careers. He was not a great recruiter, but ended up with great players. His defensive press was legendary and the 75-62 win at Jadwin over a great Princeton team looked like 8 against 5 defensively. Rutgers was actually a one point favorite over Michigan in Philly and 79 Rutgers was probably the third best team in the country. And wait. Bill Foster was a great coach who recruited Bob and Jimmy and made the epic NIT run when the NIT meant everything. No less a player than Clyde told me what a great team and program Rutgers was. Bill made his reputation at Duke,but more than started the basketball run at Rutgers. And he had to play top ten teams in Princeton,Columbia and Penn almost every year. Tom is tier one and Steve and Bill are for different reasons a lofty tier 2.
Do I remember correctly that Hawkeye Whitney was coming here too?Not sure what you are talking about with the beginning part. We were getting Billy Bryant and Jo Jo Hunter until Lefty swept in and stole them when RU went on their trip to Rome.
Best of Luck,
Groz
You remember correctly. Swiped away while the team was in Europe by North Carolina state as Maryland was swiping away Hunter and Bryant.Do I remember correctly that Hawkeye Whitney was coming here too?
Disagree here as Young had an incredible roster he inherited and in many ways the players were coaches. He walked into a great situationTom was just an ok recruiter. The top two scorers on the Final Four team were recruited by the previous coaching staff (Dick Vitale). He was very good at developing players. Bailey and Hinson were not highly rated recruits. Battle was a good recruit who developed into an NBA player under Young. Good game coach but could be too stubborn at times. Good x's and o's guy. Overall I think Young and Pike are pretty even. I'd give Young the edge on offense coaching and Pike the edge on defense. Young played easier schedules, didnt have to compete in the Big Ten. But Young still gets the edge until Pike goes to a Final Four.
Temple was still able to recruit great playersIt is hard to compare Pike and Young recruiting wise
After the big east took off, it was much more difficult for RU to bring in the better players that Young needed with RU in the Atlantic eight, or what ever it was called at the time
Previous to the big east Young could land a couple of first team NJ all state players
and RU did not suffer going against Seton Hall for area players, but fell behind after that
I think Young left RU for that particular reason
had RU joined the big east at its beginning, Young might have been our coach for decades
Pike does not have that disadvantage in recruiting being in the Big 10
I knew TY and this sounds like you may have known him too. Very accurateCoaching has changed so much over the years. One-and Done, transfers, NIL were not even considered back then. A coach was lord of his fiefdom. Some take a shot at Fred Gruninger and the Big East decision, but as far as I know, Fred was fairly hands off with coaches. It's true that Tom Young did not want to drive up and down the eastern seaboard going to AAU games and sit in strange kitchens. Maybe Fred encouraged that once in a budget meeting or something like that -far from constant nagging. Without that effort and a graduate degree from charm school Tom was never going back to the Final 4 at RU. Tom was very intelligent and very forceful. If he could get a player to listen, he would get a lot out of him. Otherwise they could sit and learn on their own. Pikes has dimensions that Young did not have. Their relationship with their teams is altogether different. I don't think Young could coach today. I think Pikes would have been okay in the 70's and 80's, but is more suited to today.
When Tom left, it seemed like he had run his course. I mean he went to ODU not Duke, because he was looking for a spot with less emphasis on recruiting and less emphasis on winning. If you're asking me to choose between a 50 y.o. Young against a 50 y.o. Pikes to head up RU after the Eddie debacle, it would be Pikes by a wide margin. If you're asking me who'd be better at coming up with a new play down by 1 with 10 seconds left and explain it with each player's exact role, spacing, speed, contingency and see it come off as planned, that would be Tom.
Temple continued on possibly better than RU.Temple was still able to recruit great players
None of those guys were highly recruited. He was great at developing playersTom recruited multiple guys who had long NBA careers -- Jordan, Bailey, Battle and one, Hinson, who was on his way to a perennial All-Star career before a really bad knee injury cut it short
Tom recruited several guys who had long NBA careers -- Jordan, Bailey, Battle and one, Hinson, who was on his way to being a perennial All-Star before a bad knee injury cut it short. This is the one area that Young has a big edge over all the other coaches at RU, including Pike
The point I am trying to make is yes it was harder to win in Atlantic 10, but Cheney found a way to still recruit at a high level. Young was a great coach but not a great recruiter by any stretchTemple continued on possibly better than RU.
But there is no doubt that not being in the big east was going to drag us slowly down
As soon as I heard about the big east including Syracuse and St John’s, I knew we would be in trouble if we were not in it
If we want to blame Young for not doing better at that point, ok
but it did not shock me that we began a downward slide
Pre big east he brought in players that went to the NBAThe point I am trying to make is yes it was harder to win in Atlantic 10, but Cheney found a way to still recruit at a high level. Young was a great coach but not a great recruiter by any stretch
Aaron McKie in the same class.Temple also brought in prop 48 players like Eddie Jones. Dixon is only one I remember from Rutgers. Jones had almost 1500 points in 3 years.
I met Tom Young a few times, but if he hit me with his car on the the way out of the RAC he would not be able to identify my body. Knew several guys on the the team. I played a lot of basketball, but did not play for RU.I knew TY and this sounds like you may have known him too. Very accurate
So, this was in the spring of 1980. Let's face it, and this is not news, recruiting after 76 was not great. So, maybe he was expressing some frustration. This was from an interview I did with him. Yeah, we lost Hunter and Bryant. While, they were decent, for the most part.....the top recruits post-76 were Troy, McDaniels and Griffin. I realize we were never getting Tripucka, but there were other top guys that didn't come to RU, from Jersey and the metro area.Not sure what you are talking about with the beginning part. We were getting Billy Bryant and Jo Jo Hunter until Lefty swept in and stole them when RU went on their trip to Rome.
Best of Luck,
Groz