Rank 'em: Littlepaige thru Jordan
- Thread starter Good-Knight
- Start date
I lived in the Philly area when Littlepage was coach at Penn. U of P could hardly wait to get rid of him. I called Gruninger and gave him that information, to no avail. Both Littlepage and Gruninger were disasters for Rutgers.
I would rank Wenzel, Waters, and Rice at the top ( in no particular order ) and Bannon, Hill, and Littlepage ( in that order ) at the bottom. I could never figure out Bannon.
I would rank Wenzel, Waters, and Rice at the top ( in no particular order ) and Bannon, Hill, and Littlepage ( in that order ) at the bottom. I could never figure out Bannon.
I remember going over to Birmingham when RU played at UAB early in Jordan's tenure. I think we got out-rebounded 54-27 or something horrendous like that. So, clearly rebounding was never a focus.
This is accurate. Littlepage, while a great player at Penn, supposedly made his reputation recruiting Ralph Sampson to Virginia. However, even that is in dispute, because the other story is that it was Jim Larranaga, who of course, turned out to be a much better coach. But, yes, the people at Penn-his alma mater, couldn't wait to be rid of him.
the ol' golf coach Gruninger was as horrid as an AD as there ever has been. as small time as it comes, no vision, and couldn't select coaches (maybe Reasso, a few others) for major revenue-generating sports.
Feel free to post the videos.
Also, in Jordan’s first two years, the average rebounding deficit was 1.1 per game. That happens to be exactly the same rebounding deficit that we had this year under Pike. There was a huge deficit in Jordan‘s third year, but he was basically playing with one healthy post man, 6’8” DJ Foreman, the whole year.
The point Jordan was making when he had that infamous press conference was the same thing the Dennis Rodman used to say, that rebounding was more heart and desire than anything else. The comment was about his team needing to play harder.
I think we need a deeper dive into that stat. One year was AAC and how many Rice recruits were still in the program. The bottom line is that you can’t ignore the eyeball test. This team lacked focus, hustle , energy - you name it. Eddie was one of my childhood hoops heroes but he was historically bad as head coach and it pains me to type that.
I agree it takes a deeper dive. But that deeper dive shows you he was the guy that had to take the AAC roster to Big Ten competition while dealing with scandal and with injury issues.
True- but Pike got the talent that Shoes brought in to buy in, play D, play harder and be more competitive in the Big Ten.
In first Pikiell practice, Rutgers hits it hard
Bodies fly in rebounding drill; strong showings for Sanders, Thiam, Gettys; Deshawn Freeman's health improving
amp.app.com
A whole article about Pikiell’s rebounding drills
1. Waters - Best coach on the list. Avoided scandals. Recruiting had its issues. I didn’t oppose the change but his replacement was obviously worse.
2. Wenzel - Great first few seasons. Then plummeted off a cliff. Poor recruiter aside from hitting transfer gold.
3. Bannon - Would be higher if it were not for the scandals.
4. Rice - See Bannon.
5. Hill Jr - Best recruiter we’ve had. Could not do a damn thing with the talent.
6/7 Littlepage/Jordan - Failures on all levels.
2. Wenzel - Great first few seasons. Then plummeted off a cliff. Poor recruiter aside from hitting transfer gold.
3. Bannon - Would be higher if it were not for the scandals.
4. Rice - See Bannon.
5. Hill Jr - Best recruiter we’ve had. Could not do a damn thing with the talent.
6/7 Littlepage/Jordan - Failures on all levels.
He was even nuttier in the stands at his son’s high school games afterwards. He didn’t learn a damn thing. Serious issues with that dude.
Anyone who ranks Littlepage over Jordan couldnt have been around when Littlepage coached. He had historic losing streaks in the Atlantic 10 when it was a way worse conference than it is now. He never beat any team of note. Jordan's historic losing streaks came in the best conference in the country and he had wins over Clemson, Vanderbilt, and Wisconsin. Littlepage inherited a mediocre team. Jordan inherited a disaster.
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Maybe not clinically nuts, but Hill, Bannon and Rice all had substantial character issues. I watched Bannon stand on the court and silently stare down a ref for half of a timeout, looking like he was in some kind of psychotic trance.
Eddie was a huge disappointment, but Littlepage took over for a guy who took us to the Final 4, while Jordan inherited a team with only 4 players, thanks to Rice.
With Rice I gotta throw out his coaching ability and rate him dead last — his behavior and the scandal it caused were that egregious.
So my ranking is: Wenzel, Waters, Bannon, Hill, Jordan, Littlepage, Rice.
Eddie was a huge disappointment, but Littlepage took over for a guy who took us to the Final 4, while Jordan inherited a team with only 4 players, thanks to Rice.
With Rice I gotta throw out his coaching ability and rate him dead last — his behavior and the scandal it caused were that egregious.
So my ranking is: Wenzel, Waters, Bannon, Hill, Jordan, Littlepage, Rice.
This is just a painful thread. Among the most ever.
Bannon, with what he threw away with pure arrogance, stupidity, and personal failings wasted more than any one and may therefor slip below Littlepage,
This is just a painful thread. Among the most ever.
Bannon, with what he threw away with pure arrogance, stupidity, and personal failings wasted more than any one and may therefor slip below Littlepage,
general thoughts
I have a hard time making any kind of list, since each of these failed for the most part
I thought Wenzel was the most likeable, although I am disturbed by someone here reporting he was a miserable human being...He came off as a very nice guy, from what I could see, and I hated that he got fired at the time
Waters got us some very big wins at home, upsets here and there.....but my complaint with him, at the time, was he could almost never win the league road game.....we were forced to try to "hold serve" at home....which we often did, but the road bugaboo was killer..... and if you lose some home games and almost all the road games, you wind up sub .500 in league
the worst battle was between Littlepage and Jordan, I think Littlepage wins by a nose..... both bad, and I really, really wanted Jordan to succeed, because he truly loves RU.....but he was a bad college coach
I have a hard time making any kind of list, since each of these failed for the most part
I thought Wenzel was the most likeable, although I am disturbed by someone here reporting he was a miserable human being...He came off as a very nice guy, from what I could see, and I hated that he got fired at the time
Waters got us some very big wins at home, upsets here and there.....but my complaint with him, at the time, was he could almost never win the league road game.....we were forced to try to "hold serve" at home....which we often did, but the road bugaboo was killer..... and if you lose some home games and almost all the road games, you wind up sub .500 in league
the worst battle was between Littlepage and Jordan, I think Littlepage wins by a nose..... both bad, and I really, really wanted Jordan to succeed, because he truly loves RU.....but he was a bad college coach
Jordan was by far the worst. That purdue game where they literally had more rebounds than we had points really goes to show he wasn’t joking with that statement.
The amazing thing about this thread is now that we are scuffling for bad news after getting Hyatt, making the second round of the NCAA tournament and having two great seasons is now we are ranking our failures. Some people just want to be negative all the time.
It’s really a sad list to read. Literally, the best guys were mediocre at best.
Littlepage was the worst. Still remember after Rice scandal Lebron james said he would not send his son to Rutgers. James could not find RU if you gave him a map. And like someone wrote A-10 was not good in those days. Agree dpwhite, very happy with program.
If your OP as I read it, was focused solely on coaching and recruiting and excluded anything off court, Rice is in the Top 3. He didn't alienate an entire team, many players stuck up for him and as we see now with the MSM , they media used a few minutes of secretly recorded footage to create a huge scandal. I am confident that at the time, other coaches had similar methods and it was never an issue. The DB Murdoch could care less about 5he kids and was purely trying to escort the school. No one can argue with Rice's basketball knowledge, he recruited some very good players and I do believe we would have been dancing within 2 years of his firing. Jordan took almost the same team and ran it into the ground
This is just painful to read for so many reasons . Yet , I can’t get enough of it
everyone seems to agree on the top 3 and bottom 4 with some adjustments; I just like Eddie too much to put him last; plus let's face it - he had a massive clean-up which Littlepage didn't have; I once posted going to games under Littlepage with about 2K in the building - and one of you said I was being generous. Wenzel did a very good job after Littlepage; and I always thought GW was a very good coach - but couldn't recruit the BE caliber needed; which lead us to Hill Jr. the recruiter... then Hill Jr. the coach; which then brought us Rice then to EJ.... and boy we have had to sit thru a lot of crappy b-ball over the years.
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"We" most definitely aren't. One guy is.
Just compare Jordan's first 3 years with Pikes. Enough said. Jordan was one of the worst Major conference bball coaches in all of history. If its important to believe he didn't actually say he doesn't teach rebounding, that's ok. It would probably be best for Jordan to claim he didn't teach anything at all given how bad his teams played. Lol
Not everyone agrees. Wenzel should be in everyone bottom 3. Period. How many years of pathetic teams did he have after his early "success"? 7? It literally seemed like decades.
Signing honorable mention h.s. all-conference Glenn Stokes, Joe Jarldane of the Fashion Institute of NY, Johnny "I never played a minute outside of garbage time" Blake, Darko the "European Larry Bird" and other future A-10 pine riders was just scratching the surface for the completely incompetent Wenzel.
(Apologies to Damon and Geoff.)
1. Wenzel was in a group by himself. Best of the group
2. Bannon, Waters and Rice all about the same as far as recruiting and coaching, scandals aside.
3. Fred Hill was a lousy coach and a so so recruiter.
4. Jordan I had high hopes for. He was a Rutgers man. I was so disappointed when he said he doesn't teach rebounding. What was he thinking???
5. Littlepage should be thrown in jail for the harm he did to our Bball program. He's the worst coach we ever had in any sport bar none and that's saying something! Strangest thing though, he's done a good job as AD at UVA.
2. Bannon, Waters and Rice all about the same as far as recruiting and coaching, scandals aside.
3. Fred Hill was a lousy coach and a so so recruiter.
4. Jordan I had high hopes for. He was a Rutgers man. I was so disappointed when he said he doesn't teach rebounding. What was he thinking???
5. Littlepage should be thrown in jail for the harm he did to our Bball program. He's the worst coach we ever had in any sport bar none and that's saying something! Strangest thing though, he's done a good job as AD at UVA.
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won't put Wenzel at the top; And don't really remember if Bannon was a good game day coach; thought he recruited well; just have a better recollection that GW was the best coach out of the group. And as far as Wenzel being with the bottom 3; at least he had some success; if you can find me any success at all under Littlepage, Hill Jr. or EJ, -- then you can put Wenzel below one of these men.
If you’re keeping score on the AD hires
Grunniger hires : littlepage , Wenzel, bannon
Grunniger fires: littlepage wenzel
Muclhahy hires: waters and hill (waters puts hill on staff in his last year as HC)
Mulchahy fires : bannon , waters
Pernetti hires : rice
Pernetti fires : hill (but wanted and was going to keep him before the Pitt baseball incident).
I forget who actually fired rice, or if he resigned .
Jordan was hired by a committee I believe . No Permanent AD in place at the time.
what a complete sh&tshow . Hobbs gets credit for getting a good one in pike out of the gate
Grunniger hires : littlepage , Wenzel, bannon
Grunniger fires: littlepage wenzel
Muclhahy hires: waters and hill (waters puts hill on staff in his last year as HC)
Mulchahy fires : bannon , waters
Pernetti hires : rice
Pernetti fires : hill (but wanted and was going to keep him before the Pitt baseball incident).
I forget who actually fired rice, or if he resigned .
Jordan was hired by a committee I believe . No Permanent AD in place at the time.
what a complete sh&tshow . Hobbs gets credit for getting a good one in pike out of the gate
Bob Wenzel had a .487 winning percentage over 9 years with two NCAA appearances. Craig Littlepage had a .267 winning percentage over three years. He couldn't win ten games in any of those years and thankfully was fired.
The administration is responsible for making RU Basketball a laughing stock. From 1983 until Pike. Think of the money they squandered since RU was the top basketball program in the Northeast.
Don't understand anyone who doesn't put Wenzel at the top. He had to overcome worst than the Ash stench in Craig Littlepage. Brought two different RU teams to the Big Dance. Had to go into the Big East when we were woefully far behind. People forget he did a nice job bringing Jacksonville to the Big Dance and NIT too. No easy feats. I don't think it's even close that he is at the top.
Thanks for keeping the ball bouncing on this; I get very much the job Wenzel had to do after Littlepage; but most of his years were against A10 schools; and early success was followed by a lot of not great (check the record after year 3); And don't want to discount the job that GW had to do after KB - and again I am not talking about anything great - but he went up against the BE sharks every year (as did KB). Look I have trouble remembering last week much less 35 years ago.
