Rank 'em: Littlepaige thru Jordan

[Good-Knight]

Ranked not as human beings but as competent D1 Basketball coaches most likely to get us a regular NCAA tourneys and occasional Top 25 rankings with no "if that didn't happen" exceptions (for Rice or Bannon) - just if they didn't get fired and got the chance to continue coaching RU.

1. Kevin Bannon 59-60 - If he could have laughed off the free throw shooting incident, no one wanted the job more or worked harder. Scrambled eggs served on an RV is not a bad approach to recruiting. He knew how to work Jersey.

2. Gary Waters 79-75 - No secret I really liked Coach Waters and was disappointed at the way he was tossed aside for Hill. He got the idea of building a culture in a program and was very charismatic. Don't forget Water Pressure. Only one of the desert coaches with a winning record.

3. Bob Wenzel 128-135 - A real pro. People dismiss his weave but Bob did not make mistakes on the court. Could have used a year off to regenerate. One knock against Bob is that he would have taken another job one notch up if he achieved sustained success.

4. Mike Rice 44-51 - Say what you want but he had a passion for basketball. He was not nuts and would have probably calmed down after the news of the video died down.

5. Fred Hill Jr 47-77 - FHjr was nuts. He was super happy to get the RU job and willing to work as hard as anyone. The nuts part really put a cap on his potential. Had many people tell me that being nuts was a key to his father’s success in baseball. Go figure.

6. Eddie Jordan 29-68 - Obviously knew the game and had NBA pedigree. I think there was a big issue with the amount of effort the rich, successful man was willing to put in.

7. Craig Littlepage 23-63 - Many of you don't know how bad BAD can get. He simply did not connect with college kids...or high school kids for that matter. Not a bad guy, but in a historically bad program, he was the historically worst coach. He was an intelligent guy. Being a successful coach takes so much more than that.

 

[RUPete]

Ranked not as human beings but as competent D1 Basketball coaches most likely to get us a regular NCAA tourneys and occasional Top 25 rankings with no "if that didn't happen" exceptions (for Rice or Bannon) - just if they didn't get fired and got the chance to continue coaching RU.

Kevin Bannon 59-60 - If he could have laughed off the free throw shooting incident, no one wanted the job more or worked harder. Scrambled eggs served on an RV is not a bad approach to recruiting. He knew how to work Jersey.

Gary Waters 79-75 - No secret I really liked Coach Waters and was disappointed at the way he was tossed aside for Hill. He got the idea of building a culture in a program and was very charismatic. Don't forget Water Pressure.

Bob Wenzel 128-135 - A real pro. People dismiss his weave but Bob did not make mistakes on the court. Could have used a year off to regenerate. One knock against Bob is that he would have taken another job one notch up if he achieved sustained success.

Mike Rice 44-51 - Say what you want but he had a passion for basketball. He was not nuts and would have probably calmed down after the news of the video died down.

Fred Hill Jr 47-77 - FHjr was nuts. He was super happy to get the RU job and willing to work as hard as anyone. The nuts part really put a cap on his potential. Had many people tell me that being nuts was a key to his father’s success in baseball. Go figure.

Eddie Jordan 29-68 - Obviously knew the game and had NBA experience. I think there was a big issue with the amount of effort the rich, successful man was willing to put in.

Craig Littlepage 23-63 - Many of you don't know how bad BAD can get. He simply did not connect with college kids...or high school kids for that matter. Not a bad guy, but in a historically bad program, he was the historically worst coach. He was an intelligent guy. Being a successful coach takes so much more than that.

Good list, but one point on your Littlepage comment: we weren't a historically bad program until he firmly placed us on the road to becoming one.

 

[Local Shill]

Waters was the only one who ever got college coaching job after leaving Rutgers. That's got to be worth something.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Agree with you except that Jordan was worse than Littlepage. Littlepage is a stand-up guy and the team played hard for him. Littlpage didn't blame the fans, was accountable (rebouding coaching was "in his package"), and didn't lie on his resume. He also wasn't lazy like "roll the ball out" Jordan.

 

[shields]

Littlepage was bad in the Atlantic 10. To me that makes him worse.

 

[briccnerff]

Pikell,
Waters
Bannon

 

[superfan01]

When Fred Hill and mike rice are far from the bottom that's a bad list.

 

[mikeyo]

Ranked not as human beings but as competent D1 Basketball coaches most likely to get us a regular NCAA tourneys and occasional Top 25 rankings with no "if that didn't happen" exceptions (for Rice or Bannon) - just if they didn't get fired and got the chance to continue coaching RU.

1. Kevin Bannon 59-60 - If he could have laughed off the free throw shooting incident, no one wanted the job more or worked harder. Scrambled eggs served on an RV is not a bad approach to recruiting. He knew how to work Jersey.

2. Gary Waters 79-75 - No secret I really liked Coach Waters and was disappointed at the way he was tossed aside for Hill. He got the idea of building a culture in a program and was very charismatic. Don't forget Water Pressure. Only one of the desert coaches with a winning record.

3. Bob Wenzel 128-135 - A real pro. People dismiss his weave but Bob did not make mistakes on the court. Could have used a year off to regenerate. One knock against Bob is that he would have taken another job one notch up if he achieved sustained success.

4. Mike Rice 44-51 - Say what you want but he had a passion for basketball. He was not nuts and would have probably calmed down after the news of the video died down.

5. Fred Hill Jr 47-77 - FHjr was nuts. He was super happy to get the RU job and willing to work as hard as anyone. The nuts part really put a cap on his potential. Had many people tell me that being nuts was a key to his father’s success in baseball. Go figure.

6. Eddie Jordan 29-68 - Obviously knew the game and had NBA pedigree. I think there was a big issue with the amount of effort the rich, successful man was willing to put in.

7. Craig Littlepage 23-63 - Many of you don't know how bad BAD can get. He simply did not connect with college kids...or high school kids for that matter. Not a bad guy, but in a historically bad program, he was the historically worst coach. He was an intelligent guy. Being a successful coach takes so much more than that.

Mike Rice WAS nuts. Sorry, but 'passion for basketball' doesn't
excuse throwing objects at players. His antics set the program
back years

 

[Degaz-RU]

Ranked not as human beings but as competent D1 Basketball coaches most likely to get us a regular NCAA tourneys and occasional Top 25 rankings with no "if that didn't happen" exceptions (for Rice or Bannon) - just if they didn't get fired and got the chance to continue coaching RU.

1. Kevin Bannon 59-60 - If he could have laughed off the free throw shooting incident, no one wanted the job more or worked harder. Scrambled eggs served on an RV is not a bad approach to recruiting. He knew how to work Jersey.

2. Gary Waters 79-75 - No secret I really liked Coach Waters and was disappointed at the way he was tossed aside for Hill. He got the idea of building a culture in a program and was very charismatic. Don't forget Water Pressure. Only one of the desert coaches with a winning record.

3. Bob Wenzel 128-135 - A real pro. People dismiss his weave but Bob did not make mistakes on the court. Could have used a year off to regenerate. One knock against Bob is that he would have taken another job one notch up if he achieved sustained success.

4. Mike Rice 44-51 - Say what you want but he had a passion for basketball. He was not nuts and would have probably calmed down after the news of the video died down.

5. Fred Hill Jr 47-77 - FHjr was nuts. He was super happy to get the RU job and willing to work as hard as anyone. The nuts part really put a cap on his potential. Had many people tell me that being nuts was a key to his father’s success in baseball. Go figure.

6. Eddie Jordan 29-68 - Obviously knew the game and had NBA pedigree. I think there was a big issue with the amount of effort the rich, successful man was willing to put in.

7. Craig Littlepage 23-63 - Many of you don't know how bad BAD can get. He simply did not connect with college kids...or high school kids for that matter. Not a bad guy, but in a historically bad program, he was the historically worst coach. He was an intelligent guy. Being a successful coach takes so much more than that.

1. Wenzel - Seeing as Wenzel is the only one of these seven who ACTUALLY got us to the NCAA tourney, he has to be at the top of the list even though his success, um, waned in the last few years.

2. Bannon - he would have gotten it done. Was a good recruiter and coach, but personal things just got in the way.

3. Waters - part of me thinks that GW reached his ceiling here, as a "nice guy" who didn't really light the world on fire. But he's really the only coach who "built" a consistent culture, and he did start to recruit better toward the end, but we'll never know if he could have overcome his initial error in not hiring a NJ (or even NE) based assistant.

4. Rice - he started out gangbusters, but after recruiting a really good class, he basically alienated those same kids with his maniacal behavior. So I'm not sure if he would have gotten it done here.

5. Hill Jr. - good recruiter, terrible head coach. Period.

6. Jordan - I put him ahead of Littlepage mostly because he stabilized a really precarious situation after the Mike Rice scandal. He brought some class and kept us out of the headlines. That was worth something, even if we all knew he wasn't going to be a good college coach.

7. Littlepage - the record speaks for itself, as does the fact that Wenzel got us an A-10 championship and an NCAA berth in his first year after Littlepage was fired.

 

[superfan01]

Rice is dead last. He set the entire athletic program back 5 years. All sports. We were a national and worldwide embarrassment that was mocked everywhere even SNL.
Remind me when Jordan or littlepaige did something that had SNL make a skit about that had millions of views

 

[Plum Street]

1. Wenzel - Seeing as Wenzel is the only one of these seven who ACTUALLY got us to the NCAA tourney, he has to be at the top of the list even though his success, um, waned in the last few years.

2. Bannon - he would have gotten it done. Was a good recruiter and coach, but personal things just got in the way.

3. Waters - part of me thinks that GW reached his ceiling here, as a "nice guy" who didn't really light the world on fire. But he's really the only coach who "built" a consistent culture, and he did start to recruit better toward the end, but we'll never know if he could have overcome his initial error in not hiring a NJ (or even NE) based assistant.

4. Rice - he started out gangbusters, but after recruiting a really good class, he basically alienated those same kids with his maniacal behavior. So I'm not sure if he would have gotten it done here.

5. Hill Jr. - good recruiter, terrible head coach. Period.

6. Jordan - I put him ahead of Littlepage mostly because he stabilized a really precarious situation after the Mike Rice scandal. He brought some class and kept us out of the headlines. That was worth something, even if we all knew he wasn't going to be a good college coach.

7. Littlepage - the record speaks for itself, as does the fact that Wenzel got us an A-10 championship and an NCAA berth in his first year after Littlepage was fired.

This order . Wenzel number 1 because he did go to the tournament twice.
i agree with a bannon over waters . Bannon’s best moment was better than waters best moment. Big East tournament buzzer beater is bigger than anything accomplished in the loser NIT. That NIT run was also made with mostly bannon players . Bannon also had us on the bubble. Waters’ lousy teams were way worse than any of bannon’s teams. He also let hill jr join his staff.
Man this is a very bad list . Bannon blew and he’s number 2!!
I think the piscataway high school coaches could of done a better job than any of the guys 4-7.

 

[rubaseball78]

1. Waters
2. Wenzel
3. Bannon
4. Rice
5. Hill
6. Jordan
7. Littlepage

This would be my order as well.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Would you rather die of thirst or hunger or fire or freeze to death or fire ants...

 

[Mr Magoo]

What's also amazing is that two of these seven (Rice and Hill) were certifiably nuts. I suppose a case could also be made for Bannon and his naked FT shooting.

I met Hill once at a HS banquet in which he spoke. He was an arrogant ass. However, I'll never forget that insane 1-3-1 defense he ran in one of his first games with our smallest guy running baseline to baseline like an idiot while the offense swung the ball from side to side and Hamady jumping up and down and screaming at the foul line. What a buffoon Hill was.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Wenzel is first. In a very tight battle for last, I will say Jordan because I think Littlepage at least tried to earn his paycheck. Just put all the others in between—it was one long blur of Division 2 basketball. I can’t believe we haven’t put guys in the NBA for a decent amount of time since Hinson and Battle.

 

[littlenis5]

What's also amazing is that two of these seven (Rice and Hill) were certifiably nuts. I suppose a case could also be made for Bannon and his naked FT shooting.

I met Hill once at a HS banquet in which he spoke. He was an arrogant ass. However, I'll never forget that insane 1-3-1 defense he ran in one of his first games with our smallest guy running baseline to baseline like an idiot while the offense swung the ball from side to side and Hamady jumping up and down and screaming at the foul line. What a buffoon Hill was.

I’m good with all of this except the 1-3-1 bit. I absolutely love this defense if taught by someone other than Freddy. During the Pittsnogle years, WVU ran in this way. My HS team ran this as well and led to lots of turnovers

 

[scarletrat]

Bannon is at the top of the list. He had the right mix of coaching and recruiting, and wanted this job. Just couldn't get out of his way. Had an edge that I thought was needed here.

Wenzel second--felt he was the best tactical/bench coach and got the most of teams (some of those mid-90s teams were really bad talent wise, and he coaxed 5-6 wins in tough Big East at the time).

Rice thereafter.

Waters thereafter. Didn't bring in at least 1 assistant wiht local ties, no idea how he finished 2-14 in Big East with Shields, and Douby. Couldn't win a big game unless NIT. We saw his ceiling, and floor.

That said, the most disappointing was Jordan.

 

[RUPete]

Bannon is at the top of the list. He had the right mix of coaching and recruiting, and wanted this job. Just couldn't get out of his way. Had an edge that I thought was needed here.

Wenzel second--felt he was the best tactical/bench coach and got the most of teams (some of those mid-90s teams were really bad talent wise, and he coaxed 5-6 wins in tough Big East at the time).

Rice thereafter.

Waters thereafter. Didn't bring in at least 1 assistant wiht local ties, no idea how he finished 2-14 in Big East with Shields, and Douby. Couldn't win a big game unless NIT. We saw his ceiling, and floor.

That said, the most disappointing was Jordan.

All good points. Regarding Jordan, I think we should have known what was coming with the staff he hired. What was the O’Koren hiring about again?

 

[ruinac]

1. Waters
2. Wenzel
3. Bannon
4. Rice
5. Hill
6. Jordan
7. Littlepage

Good list

 

[zebnatto]

Mike Rice WAS nuts. Sorry, but 'passion for basketball' doesn't
excuse throwing objects at players. His antics set the program
back years

Agree with the listing but also agree w Mikeyo. His passion wasn’t for basketball, it was for winning, and not in a “comes with the job” sense but pathologically.

 

[RUKen]

Rice goes to the bottom of the list. He failed himself and more importantly the entire university. We were the laughing stock of the nation. Took down an AD as well. I lived in Maryland at the time. My boss wanted to talk about it prior to prepping for an earnings call and spoke about what a joke Rutgers was. Naked free throw Bannon right behind him. Another national embarrassment moment for the university. They have to go below crappy coaches like Craig and Eddie. Fred Jr down there as well but he did not make us a national embarrassment like the other two clowns. Bobby and Gary, top two hands down. Bobby wins, took us to the dance (s)

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Ranked not as human beings but as competent D1 Basketball coaches most likely to get us a regular NCAA tourneys and occasional Top 25 rankings with no "if that didn't happen" exceptions (for Rice or Bannon) - just if they didn't get fired and got the chance to continue coaching RU.

1. Kevin Bannon 59-60 - If he could have laughed off the free throw shooting incident, no one wanted the job more or worked harder. Scrambled eggs served on an RV is not a bad approach to recruiting. He knew how to work Jersey.

2. Gary Waters 79-75 - No secret I really liked Coach Waters and was disappointed at the way he was tossed aside for Hill. He got the idea of building a culture in a program and was very charismatic. Don't forget Water Pressure. Only one of the desert coaches with a winning record.

3. Bob Wenzel 128-135 - A real pro. People dismiss his weave but Bob did not make mistakes on the court. Could have used a year off to regenerate. One knock against Bob is that he would have taken another job one notch up if he achieved sustained success.

4. Mike Rice 44-51 - Say what you want but he had a passion for basketball. He was not nuts and would have probably calmed down after the news of the video died down.

5. Fred Hill Jr 47-77 - FHjr was nuts. He was super happy to get the RU job and willing to work as hard as anyone. The nuts part really put a cap on his potential. Had many people tell me that being nuts was a key to his father’s success in baseball. Go figure.

6. Eddie Jordan 29-68 - Obviously knew the game and had NBA pedigree. I think there was a big issue with the amount of effort the rich, successful man was willing to put in.

7. Craig Littlepage 23-63 - Many of you don't know how bad BAD can get. He simply did not connect with college kids...or high school kids for that matter. Not a bad guy, but in a historically bad program, he was the historically worst coach. He was an intelligent guy. Being a successful coach takes so much more than that.

1.) wenzel
2.) waters
3.) bannon
4.) rice
5.) jordan
6.) hill
......

250) littlepage

Littlepage was soooo bad. I mean beyond bad.

 

[Rufaninga]

1. Wenzel - Seeing as Wenzel is the only one of these seven who ACTUALLY got us to the NCAA tourney, he has to be at the top of the list

THIS 100%

 

[Mr Magoo]

I’m good with all of this except the 1-3-1 bit. I absolutely love this defense if taught by someone other than Freddy. During the Pittsnogle years, WVU ran in this way. My HS team ran this as well and led to lots of turnovers

I agree with you. WVU with Beilein ran it to perfection and often you do have a small forward along he baseline. However, we had a 6-2 guy and he was running around like an idiot and the offense was content to run him ragged going from corner to corner. Smart teams can collapse this zone from the corner as all zones basically turn into a 2-3 once you’ve broken them down. It’s a good change of pace but usually not effective if run too long...unless you have length like WVU.

 

[rutgersron]

1.) wenzel
2.) waters
3.) bannon
4.) rice
5.) jordan
6.) hill
......

250) littlepage

Littlepage was soooo bad. I mean beyond bad.

Littlepage was so bad that when we had MBB/WBB doubleheaders...WBB would be the main event. MBB was the WARMUP!!!!

 

[RW90]

Littlepage was so bad that when we had MBB/WBB doubleheaders...WBB would be the main event. MBB was the WARMUP!!!!

Half-priced shoes!!!

 

[Westcoast]

1. Waters
2. Wenzel
3. Bannon
4. Rice
5. Hill
6. Jordan
7. Littlepage

Lets be honest, Wenzel was dreadful. He got lucky with a hot team down the stretch in 89 (won 11 games straight if I recall) to get to the NCAA and landed 3 big transfers to get him back to the NCAA. But he couldn't recruit AT ALL and Jim Carty, reporter with the Home News (or was it ledger?) Posted on the old message boards that Wenzel was an awful human being
He never said why he felt that way. But I just recall Wenzel bringing in D2 and D3 level guys and striking put with virtually anyone with talent (with a couple exceptions). We were getting trounced in the freakin A-10!

 

[80RU]

What's also amazing is that two of these seven (Rice and Hill) were certifiably nuts. I suppose a case could also be made for Bannon and his naked FT shooting.

I met Hill once at a HS banquet in which he spoke. He was an arrogant ass. However, I'll never forget that insane 1-3-1 defense he ran in one of his first games with our smallest guy running baseline to baseline like an idiot while the offense swung the ball from side to side and Hamady jumping up and down and screaming at the foul line. What a buffoon Hill was.

Tom Young occasionally ran that defense with Darius Griffin running the baseline. There were actually a number of others around college basketball who did that.

 

[80RU]

Wenzel is first. In a very tight battle for last, I will say Jordan because I think Littlepage at least tried to earn his paycheck. Just put all the others in between—it was one long blur of Division 2 basketball. I can’t believe we haven’t put guys in the NBA for a decent amount of time since Hinson and Battle.

Littlepaige was far, far, far worse than Eddie Jordan. He took a competitive team in the mid- major conference and instantly brought them down to the bottom of that conference. He was stunningly arrogant, and took a group which had athleticism as their best asset and played the exact style that would take least advantage of that asset. He lost the respect of the team immediately. His assistants were particularly arrogant, I will never forget their attitude when they did the post game radio shows.

Jordan walked into as dire situation as you can imagine. But on top of that, he had bad luck with injuries. All this with far more intense competition. He could barely run a practice because he could not get a five on five full court. When you watch a practice now there are 15 healthy bodies rotating in and it allows them to have the pace you need. There is just no way that you can compare his failure to Littlepaige when you consider the circumstances.

 

[Caliknight]

Can’t imagine anything worse than Jordan.

“I don’t teach rebounding”. Never heard a coach in any sport utter such stupidity.

 

[G- RUnit]

1. Wenzel not getting enough credit. He got us to the tourney twice. Over achieved.
2. Bannon was so so close and he was the one who initially targeted Douby.
3. Waters had his moments but like most on this board, with the talent he had, should have won way more than he did. Never ever thought he was all in @ RU.
4. Rice could coach period and was passionate. Think witch hunt and press was way over the top in trying to get him fired. RU should have had a little more back bone. Throwing basketballs at players has gone on forever.
5. FHJ most puzzling of all. With his recruiting prowess should have been better.
6. Eddie just didn't put in the effort. Good eye for talent with Corey. Too revered by alumni?
7. Littlepage set the basketball program backwards for three decades.

 

[80RU]

Can’t imagine anything worse than Jordan.

“I don’t teach rebounding”. Never heard a coach in any sport utter such stupidity.

That’s not exactly what he said. He said he told his team he wasn’t going to do rebounding drills. But he did coach rebounding – – positioning, boxing out etc. – – in the flow of his practices.

 

[Caliknight]

That’s not what he said.

What is it you think he said then?

 

[RULoyal]

I have Littlepage at #8

 

[80RU]

What is it you think he said then?

He told the reporters that he told his team he wasn’t going to do rebounding drills. But he did coach rebounding – – positioning, boxing out etc. – – in the flow of his practices. And maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall Pike doing rebound “drills” per se either.

 

[Caliknight]

Said another way, he didn't teach rebounding. If you want to teach something, you drill it. That's sports at any level.

 

[RUPete]

That’s not exactly what he said. He said he told his team he wasn’t going to do rebounding drills. But he did coach rebounding – – positioning, boxing out etc. – – in the flow of his practices.

He may not have said it that way, but I recall it was pretty damning. I sort of knew we were screwed before that quote. For me, the quote confirmed my suspicions.

 

[RURM85]

Sat behind the Bench for the 1st Big Ten In Conference Game against Northwestern on a fine sunny afternoon. 2 players on the bench spent the whole game arguing over a topic that had nothing to do with basketball. Jack was disciplined for the 1st half and played in the second half. He looked like he was sleep walking. Should have stayed in bed. Overall play was lackluster and nobody seemed to care. Jordan sat in his chair and did absolutely nothing. Although it was just 1 game, I give Jordan last place for stealing money and wasting my time on a nice afternoon.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Sat behind the Bench for the 1st Big Ten In Conference Game against Northwestern on a fine sunny afternoon. 2 players on the bench spent the whole game arguing over a topic that had nothing to do with basketball. Jack was disciplined for the 1st half and played in the second half. He looked like he was sleep walking. Should have stayed in bed. Overall play was lackluster and nobody seemed to care. Jordan sat in his chair and did absolutely nothing. Although it was just 1 game, I give Jordan last place for stealing money and wasting my time on a nice afternoon.

bingo. he acted like he was doing everyone a favor by taking the job and then half-assed it while getting paid well.

 

[dpwhite]

He told the reporters that he told his team he wasn’t going to do rebounding drills. But he did coach rebounding – – positioning, boxing out etc. – – in the flow of his practices. And maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall Pike doing rebound “drills” per se either.

There is plenty of video evidence from open practices in years 1-3 of Pikiell’s rebounding drills.