I don't think there will be a primary, every guard on the court will bring the ball up.
Basketball Rutgers Basketball wing Gavin Griffiths enters Transfer Portal
- Thread starter Alec Crouthamel
- Start date
Nah, he wasn't this year, Simpson brought it up more, why would he be with better talent right next to him. The beauty of playing 3 guards is no one has a particular role. The downside of playing 3 guards is no one gets comfortable in a particular role.
3 guards will continue the rebounding problem, and worse, our guards won’t make up for it on the other end by being 3 point shooters.
Sorry bad example! Steph was a great shooter then and is now the GOAT that’s why playing him off the ball works.
Dylan is not a great shooter more importantly is the smartest player we have with the greatest court vision. Instantly makes everyone better with the ball in his hands.
Agreed should not impact his Draft status.
It doesn’t matter if he’s a shooter. Curry can create for himself. He doesn’t and never did require catch and shoot. The issue in college and high school with having your star bring up the ball is it makes it easier for a defense to focus on containing them. Much riskier to dedicate an off ball double team to covering him.
Will completely disagree ! No other player in the league requires more to create a shot than Steph. Regular season sure he can pull up from anywhere.
When teams actually play defense Steph requires more off the ball screens and motion the lynchpin to GS offense.
We can agree utilizing a player off the ball can help to free him. Pikes offense's has never proved that AND you need the opposing D to respect the player with the ball.
Any team plays drop coverage on Jwill and forces him left daring him to shoot. Neither PG takes your attention away from Dylan or Ace. Your logic is correct the players being used do not.
Dylan w the ball keeps any team preparing for us up at night. Is he going to score? Drive? Look for teammates he can do it all at a high level. The most impressive thing from the All American game was the discipline and shots he did not take. He was on the floor with the best of the best and everyone deffered to him because he always made the right play.
The irony of his point is the final possession of the final game in that Davidson run against Kansas - final shot - Steph got the ball in his hands in the backcourt specifically because they were afraid Kansas wouldn't allow him to get the ball/a shot off. Now that's a debatable point (and he did have to pass and the pg missed the shot) but that was the call made by McKillop.
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Maybe you can just pull up Oskar’s career stats and the reality of it will set in. He’s a career 33% three point shooter at Rutgers. 39% shooter overall. 64.5% FT shooter. These are all better numbers that Gavin’s shooting numbers.per 40 min, his rebounding, assist, and steal numbers are better too I believe. Gavin is only a frosh. Green never said he wouldn’t get better. He said that as of that point, Oskar deserved to play over Gavin because his numbers were better.
Oskar was the better player last year. But, the rationale of giving GG more minutes was to develop him for the future because his ceiling was much higher. At this point, it obviously doesn’t matter. And I agree, GG may or may not pan out at another school.
Pike needs to explain? Sheesh. The kid wasn’t that good. He was ok. But for next year Martini is a straight up upgrade and most are saying he might not even be the starter. GGs minutes highly likely going down. It would have been great if the kid was willing to wait a season or three and develop behind Ace and others.. But that’s not the world we live in. No explanation needed.
Whatever you say. J Will was much more impactful in his first two seasons at Temple (way better league) though than Richards was his first 2 seasons at Davidson. So it sure seems like the jury is still out on this.
Or rather the irony is that based in part on that one play everyone projected Davidson to be even better the next season with the ball in Curry’s hands. More touches for the star should make for a better team right? How’d that work out?
Your trying too hard here. It wasn’t intended to be a “perfect” comparison. It’s simply a clear example of a situation where putting the ball in the hands of the best player from start to finish didn’t translate into a better team outcome. That’s all. Implying that J Richards is a leaps and bounds better PG than William’s is a major stretch.
Now this? I wasn’t trying to make a case that Dylan and Curry play the same style. You can come up with 100 reasons why it’s “different” for Dylan, but regardless, coach Diverio (seasoned head coach at Don Bosco) obviously saw merits in playing Dylan off ball because Isiah Brown ran the point plenty on that team. That doesn’t mean Dylan “never” brought the ball up, but that someone else kickstarted the offensive possessions often.
Yes - that is exactly the rationale. That and not, what I responded to. The poster was commenting on Green’s post which indicated that Oskar performed better on the court. I responded specifically to “I don’t get what you watched”. The numbers throughout the course of their collegiate careers currently support what Green said. Numbers don’t always tell the whole story but in this case they do unless your focused on “future potential” and not actual performance delivered which is what Green was specifically talking about. Sometimes a player does things that helps a team in present that don’t show up on the stat sheet, but again, in this instance, that wasn’t reality - Gavin was not a “glue guy” who drew charges, etc. throughout the season. He didn’t make a significant number of plays that Oskar didn’t make to help the team win (not captured in the stats). Maybe folks saw him run fast, jump higher whatever but again, those things didnt translate in any way to a better MOV for RU last season - the argument would be all about future potential only.
Oskar a better rebounder, and that’s it.
GG a better perimeter defender and vastly more talented offensive player even with the low FG%
Pike favors D over O. Or at least he has. Next year will almost certainly be different in that regard.
GG took strides by the end of the season from his own original (dreadful) defensive baseline, but at the point in the season when Green made this comment, Gavin’s defense wasn’t close to better than Oskar’s or anyone on the teams. He started out with no concept of help D at all - he came in unimaginably bad. So no - you are grossly inaccurate if you are saying he defended the perimeter better consistently throughout the season. There’s no galaxy where there’s any reality in that.
As far as being more talented, Green never argued otherwise which is what this discussion was about. He said Oskar was outperforming Gavin on the court which that stats support. There’s nothing you could possibly point to at that point that Gavin was delivering in game on either offense or defense better than Oskar. The only argument was - look at at his talent potential and what he could one day provide. Not what he actually delivered in scoring, passing, screening for others, etc. there was nothing.
And if we are just talking about GGs potential, then shouldn't we also be talking about Dortch and Grant? They play the same position as GG. It was going to be crowded at the wing for guys here with "potential" fighting for minutes.
GG has more offensive talent than Oscar but that talent did not shine through in his freshman season. I'm not sure what player you were watching on D either, as GG was not very good at staying with his man on the perimeter especially in terms of working through screens and often going under a screen rather than fighting over a screen to stay with his man. He also became lost (especially early on) on interior zone D rotations. The real reason to play GG over Oscar last season was based on GG's future growth and potential as an RU player. Since he did not stay with the program - in hindsight, we would have been better served keeping Oscar out there....but hindsight is 20/20.
GG's free throws were so rushed, it was bizarre. It seemed like the ball was burning hot and he just couldn't wait to get it out of his hands.
nit picking….. I’d have a higher FT % than Davis with my eyes closed.
Let’s hope we upgrade production with next year’s team but so far I don’t see that happening.
I would jump all over that bet - any sum - but I feel bad taking money from someone that is "special"
Gavin barely could (60% vs 53%), so I doubt you would. I also never mentioned Davis, mostly because he wasn’t a highly touted shooter. Would you like to compare the defensive abilities of the two for no particular reason?
Exactly. I’m not sure what he even means is nit picking. When you try to blame a guy’s poor shooting on others not getting him open shots, you should expect questions about the poor shooting in FT situations where there is no way that could be true.
point was, his foul shooting wasn’t the problem any more than his googles were (which some people here also blamed) and is irrelevant to analyzing his game.
His shooting percentage of uncontested shots is irrelevant to analyzing the game of a supposed shooter?
"Its irrelevant because it flies in the face of my invalid argument".
In that case lets talk his entire game (obviously not free throws bc they don't matter somehow)- I can play better defense than Gavin with my eyes closed...sounds silly right? Not great analysis, right?
Huh? The problem was he was brought in to be a lights out shooter and he wasn’t making shots (including free throws which could be defined as completely uncontested shot attempts).
Yes. Look around. You will see much higher player FT%s on the bench than in games.
FG% has no bearing on playing time until near the of games. Analytics.
Separate from all this analysis, when somebody enters the portal, do they lose all their athletic department privileges, get barred from the practice facility, forbidden from shooting around with guys on the team (or visa versa)? I'm guessing most continue with classes but lose access to tutors, etc. Just curious.
You are trying to blend two completely different arguments to back track from your prior statement that falls apart. You keep saying Gavin sucked because others didn’t get him open looks. It’s being pointed out to you that he missed at the free throw line too which suggests that in general, he just wasn’t shooting well. Yes, you are right, being a good FT shooter doesn’t automatically make you a good in game shooter but that doesn’t make the reverse true.
Im not blending or backtracking anything. 1. I said his productivity was severely hindered by poor guard play. And beyond him, the offense overall was broken. GG didn’t play in a vacuum. Nobody does. Many here blamed Cliff’s futility on Paul’s absence. Get it ?
2. And no, free throws and general shooting and scoring aren’t closely correlated (Simpson).
