Rutgers needs a new policy that Professors MUST have midterm and final grade up 1 week after exams!

[MikeRU1766]

Not all, but a few Rutgers professors have a TERRIBLE habit of not getting midterm or final grades published for weeks or even a month or so AFTER the midterm or final exams are taken. This puts a lot of unnecessary stress on the student body who relies on these grades for their future in general, but more specifically for jobs, internships, and athletics! If the grade take forever to be published, then that gives the students no time to ask the professor if they can do anything extra to increase their grade and also can prevent kids from getting jobs because it looks like they are trying to hide a grade or something suspicious when in reality the Professor just hasn't posted it yet.

And so in Barnwell's case....This is a total hypothetical scenario...... But what if this class can make or break him being academically eligible for this season. (And there is some evidence to indicate this as Flood and Nadir both have indicated when asked y the media about this situation that they can only give an accurate answer AFTER the summer is over. And for those who do not know, Rutgers offers many summer courses and they are great for those who can focus in the summer because it is your only class so you can focus all of your effort and studying into just one class compared to 4 or 5 or 6 DIFFERENT courses in a regular semester. )

So anyway I wouldn't be surprised if Nadir has himself in a situation where he needs like an A or a B+ to bump up his GPA so he can be eligible. And Nadir probably has a couple exam grades and projects grades already so him and Coach Flood know he is potentially right on the edge as long as he gets the right grade on the Final Exam. So anyway this could potentially be a situation where the Professor hasn't posted the grades promptly. And so Nadir has probably asked the Professor for his grade and was ignored and he mentioned it to Flood and maybe Flood just thought that he would be able to get the grade from the Professor.
And honestly it is only fair because Flood NEEDS to know this answer because he has to start gameplaning and he must needs an answer so he knows who to give the 1st team reps to for the next 2 weeks to get ready for the season.

Also, by giving Nadir the grade now, it leaves time for the Professor to give him an extra tough project to try to bump say an 84 on the Final which is a B to an 85 which is a B+. Professors never give you the opportunity to make large jumps like a full letter grade, BUT SOME will let you try to bump up a grade when you are RIGHT ON THE FENCE. But the season starts in 11 days so if the Professor waits another week to post the grade then Nadir has no time to do an extra credit project. So again this could just be a case of trying to get the grade in a decent amount of time because this kid has a specific reason for needed the grade promptly. There would be no foul play of trying to influence the grade, but rather just Nadir and Flood trying to get the grade NADIR EARNED as soon as possible that Flood can give the reps to either Nadir or Nadir's replacement and also to give Nadir time for extra credit IF the professor would even allow it.

So just saying, for those few who are already making opinions, just slow down because Professors DO THIS sometimes and I can say that from specific experience. There are legitimate reasons for Flood to be contacting a Professor.

 

[LevaosLectures]

Pretty sure this has nothing to do with why flood is in trouble.

 

[RU85inFla]

When I taught at Rutgers you had 48 hours to post final grades. This was in '86-'87

 

[retired711]

Not all, but a few Rutgers professors have a TERRIBLE habit of not getting midterm or final grades published for weeks or even a month or so AFTER the midterm or final exams are taken. This puts a lot of unnecessary stress on the student body who relies on these grades for their future in general, but more specifically for jobs, internships, and athletics! If the grade take forever to be published, then that gives the students no time to ask the professor if they can do anything extra to increase their grade and also can prevent kids from getting jobs because it looks like they are trying to hide a grade or something suspicious when in reality the Professor just hasn't posted it yet.

And so in Barnwell's case....This is a total hypothetical scenario...... But what if this class can make or break him being academically eligible for this season. (And there is some evidence to indicate this as Flood and Nadir both have indicated when asked y the media about this situation that they can only give an accurate answer AFTER the summer is over. And for those who do not know, Rutgers offers many summer courses and they are great for those who can focus in the summer because it is your only class so you can focus all of your effort and studying into just one class compared to 4 or 5 or 6 DIFFERENT courses in a regular semester. )

So anyway I wouldn't be surprised if Nadir has himself in a situation where he needs like an A or a B+ to bump up his GPA so he can be eligible. And Nadir probably has a couple exam grades and projects grades already so him and Coach Flood know he is potentially right on the edge as long as he gets the right grade on the Final Exam. So anyway this could potentially be a situation where the Professor hasn't posted the grades promptly. And so Nadir has probably asked the Professor for his grade and was ignored and he mentioned it to Flood and maybe Flood just thought that he would be able to get the grade from the Professor.
And honestly it is only fair because Flood NEEDS to know this answer because he has to start gameplaning and he must needs an answer so he knows who to give the 1st team reps to for the next 2 weeks to get ready for the season.

Also, by giving Nadir the grade now, it leaves time for the Professor to give him an extra tough project to try to bump say an 84 on the Final which is a B to an 85 which is a B+. Professors never give you the opportunity to make large jumps like a full letter grade, BUT SOME will let you try to bump up a grade when you are RIGHT ON THE FENCE. But the season starts in 11 days so if the Professor waits another week to post the grade then Nadir has no time to do an extra credit project. So again this could just be a case of trying to get the grade in a decent amount of time because this kid has a specific reason for needed the grade promptly. There would be no foul play of trying to influence the grade, but rather just Nadir and Flood trying to get the grade NADIR EARNED as soon as possible that Flood can give the reps to either Nadir or Nadir's replacement and also to give Nadir time for extra credit IF the professor would even allow it.

So just saying, for those few who are already making opinions, just slow down because Professors DO THIS sometimes and I can say that from specific experience. There are legitimate reasons for Flood to be contacting a Professor.

A few quick points: (a) you are absolutely correct that every professor needs to submit grades promptly. Sometimes a week is reasonable, but sometimes it isn't. But certainly every professor needs to do his or her best to get the grades in. At least at the undergraduate college at Camden, this is often done by having the final be multiple-choice so it can be graded within a week, but I don't know about New Brunswick. But (b) we don't yet know what Coach Flood said in his e-mail. (Coach Flood is very properly not saying because that might interfere with the internal investigation). and (c) I can't imagine a faculty member telling anyone the grade before letting the student know. Unless the student has given express permission, telling anyone else the grade would be a violation of the student's right to privacy under federal law. Heck, the professor can't even talk to a parent about a grade unless the student has given express permission for the parent to do so.

Finally, I know many of you hate the Star-Ledger, and I can well understand why. But the fact that the University has launched an investigation is certainly a legitimate subject for a newspaper story.

 

[MikeRU1766]

When I taught at Rutgers you had 48 hours to post final grades. This was in '86-'87

WOW who's bright idea was it to get rid of that rule?! I have a relative who just graduated and they were complaining about a Professor not posting a final grade for weeks so clearly the problem still persists to this day!

Rutgers needs to fix this! It has a palpable negative impact on both the students and the student athletes as it can affect both their job opportunities and their sports eligibility!

 

[MikeRU1766]

Pretty sure this has nothing to do with why flood is in trouble.

Honestly, I am not saying it definitely is, but it definitely is a plausible EXAMPLE of a reason why Flood would have contacted a Professor. And I am sure there are many more examples this is just one of them that I chose to highlight because I have had a personal experience with the issue.

 

[MikeRU1766]

A few quick points: (a) you are absolutely correct that every professor needs to submit grades promptly. Sometimes a week is reasonable, but sometimes it isn't. But certainly every professor needs to do his or her best to get the grades in. At least at the undergraduate college at Camden, this is often done by having the final be multiple-choice so it can be graded within a week, but I don't know about New Brunswick. But (b) we don't yet know what Coach Flood said in his e-mail. (Coach Flood is very properly not saying because that might interfere with the internal investigation). and (c) I can't imagine a faculty member telling anyone the grade before letting the student know. Unless the student has given express permission, telling anyone else the grade would be a violation of the student's right to privacy under federal law. Heck, the professor can't even talk to a parent about a grade unless the student has given express permission for the parent to do so.

Finally, I know many of you hate the Star-Ledger, and I can well understand why. But the fact that the University has launched an investigation is certainly a legitimate subject for a newspaper story.

Great points!

And as per point C) I believe you are correct. So then instead of asking for the grade Flood would have just asked the Professor to give out the grades promptly and then explained why in this specific case their is actual need for the student because his eligibility is in the balance.

It is very plausible that this Professor has NO IDEA about Barnwell's situation so Flood informing him of the "time limit" would actually be very necessary.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

At West Point we have two days...finals have to be graded no late than 24 hrs after completion.

It really isn't that hard...

 

[nacorwin]

Officially, grades must be in within 2 working days after the exam. As a practical matter, they must be in within 2 days of the last final. At that time, the computer ends the ability to enter grades and they all must be entered as grade changes. I have heard of this happening in my department once. The department found out when the dean called over. It was a big thing and was a cause of embarrassment. I doubt that there are a few professors that do this year after year.

 

[RULoyal]

Even if that was the reason there is a policy that a coach is not to initiate contact with faculty. If this was the reason then Flood should have had one of the academic support group initiate the contact. You want to create a policy that the professor must follow but you have no issue with KF not following policy?

 

[MikeRU1766]

Even if that was the reason there is a policy that a coach is not to initiate contact with faculty. If this was the reason then Flood should have had one of the academic support group initiate the contact. You want to create a policy that the professor must follow but you have no issue with KF not following policy?

Well see as you might know, at Rutgers just because a policy has been put down on paper does not mean that the people it affects even know the policy is now in place.

Flood even stated that interaction between Flood and the football staff happens OFTEN and IS PLANNED in such cases as attend practices, they come and talk to recruits on recruiting trips, etc. And as Flood stated we are all on the same page with the goal of improving these kids and turning them into men both on the field and in the classroom. So based on ALL of this SANTIONED interaction between the head coach and his staff and with faculty.... it could EASILY be understood that Flood would think it would be okay to contact a Professor just to inform them of a players situation or to ask for them to promptly give the player a grade because of eligibility time limits. So if this was the case, I would understand if you want to suspend Flood for 1 game just because he did break the OFFICIAL policy even if he didn't know about it and based on historical events he would actually be correct to assume that it was okay for coaches and professors to work together to PROPERLY ensure the student athlete attends class and does his best in the classroom WITHOUT any preferred treatment.

Now IF... AND I REPEAT IF.... Flood's email comes out and it was clearly more of him trying to get favored treatment for the player (WHICH I HIGHLY DOUBT BECAUSE FLOOD'S CLEAN TRACK RECORD) then this is different. Even if he didn't know about the official policy, all coaches and even fans know that it is not okay for a coach to try to influence a professor into giving a player preferred treatment. So in this case depending on the content and context of the email I would understand a much for size-able suspension and if he was ESPECIALLY EGREGIOUS then I would even understand a firing.

But to conclude, I want to remind everyone that FLOOD IS A STAND UP GUY and everything he has done in his 4 years as head coach signals a true leader and professional who respects the rules and who strives to uphold his program's dignity, his player's dignity, and his own dignity. So again I am leaning STRONGLY to this being a case of Flood just wanting to do the best for his student while STAYING WITHIN THE RULES. But I will withhold my final opinion until I see the contents and understand the context of the email because the entire situation cannot be truly understood until we obtain this information.

 

[mesa4234]

The policy, at least in my department, is that we must post grades within 2 days of the final or the last class if no final is given (usually a grad course).

 

[MikeRU1766]

The policy, at least in my department, is that we must post grades within 2 days of the final or the last class if no final is given (usually a grad course).

Interesting. Is this a departmental policy or a university-wide policy ?

 

[urbanecane]

I find it easier to blame the player who can't maintain the minimum GPA, given all the resources and easy classes available to athletes, than to blame the professor who takes his/her time grading.

 

[TheRacRU]

"But the season starts in 11 days so if the Professor waits another week to post the grade then Nadir has no time to do an extra credit project."

Shouldn't even get an extra credit opportunity. You get the grade you have earned. If he didn't get the grade necessary, knowing full well that he would be academically ineligible, well tough sh*t.

 

[RU85inFla]

Sounds like there already is a policy in place. The OP is just mis-informed.

 

[MikeRU1766]

Sounds like there already is a policy in place. The OP is just mis-informed.

Well first off, just because Rutgers has put in place a policy that Professor's need to have grade in a certain amount of time that is light years away from actually getting everyone at Rutgers to actually comply.

Additionally, I am speaking from first hand experience here from when I went to school there and also when my relative went to school there which was the last 4 years and literally this year she had an issue with getting a grade from a Professor after her final exam WEEKS LATER.

So I am definitely not misinformed on the actuality of the situation.

Also, from what I am gathering there seems to be some department that have department policies about grades needing to be posted in a prompt manner, but I am not hearing if there is a University wide policy. And also, as I already stated, creating the policy is only the first 10% of the battle at Rutgers.... the real war is getting all the different professors in all the different departments at all of the different campuses to comply.

 

[MikeRU1766]

"But the season starts in 11 days so if the Professor waits another week to post the grade then Nadir has no time to do an extra credit project."

Shouldn't even get an extra credit opportunity. You get the grade you have earned. If he didn't get the grade necessary, knowing full well that he would be academically ineligible, well tough sh*t.

Well see the only thing is that in reality the regular students are given the opportunity to obtain extra credit(depending on the Professor) so it is perfectly fair that student athletes be given the same opportunity.

Granted, I used to think that the whole extra credit thing is non sense and you should get the grade you get. But then I actually went to school and saw how missing a single question on a 90 question multiple choice exam can make the difference between a 4.0 or a 3.5 on your GPA. So when I learned that Professor don't just give out extra credit to everyone , but only to students who were within 1% or 2% of the next grade level (again depending on the Professor) then I understood it much better and was okay with it. Because in reality, in most jobs, effort is right behind intelligence when it comes to being successful at a job. So I am okay with a student who is willing to put in the extra effort and write a 5 page paper for the extra credit boost when they are right on the fence anyway.

 

[retired711]

I did not know the practice of "two days to grade" was in such wide use in New Brunswick. The law schools have never done that, although we give faculty only limited time to grade students due to graduate. I think the reason for the law schools' practice is that most courses use the final exam as the sole basis for grading, which is not true elsewhere.

I don't want to get into the business of speculating what Flood said in his e-mail. But it does sound as though he might have been asking about the possibility of an extra credit assignment. But let's see what the investigation turns up.

P.S. You wouldn't believe the excuses that faculty come up with for not turning grades in on time. One professor I know had the temerity to tell the students it was their fault for not writing more clearly! Fortunately, that professor is gone after this year.

 

[RUevolution36]

This past winter, one of my wife's MBA professors asked for their finals to be handed in by the first day of finals. Lazy ass woman couldn't get her multiple choice exam final grade into the system until January 17, 2 days before graduation.

 

[RU85inFla]

Well first off, just because Rutgers has put in place a policy that Professor's need to have grade in a certain amount of time that is light years away from actually getting everyone at Rutgers to actually comply.

Additionally, I am speaking from first hand experience here from when I went to school there and also when my relative went to school there which was the last 4 years and literally this year she had an issue with getting a grade from a Professor after her final exam WEEKS LATER.

So I am definitely not misinformed on the actuality of the situation.

Also, from what I am gathering there seems to be some department that have department policies about grades needing to be posted in a prompt manner, but I am not hearing if there is a University wide policy. And also, as I already stated, creating the policy is only the first 10% of the battle at Rutgers.... the real war is getting all the different professors in all the different departments at all of the different campuses to comply.

As far as making professors adhere to a policy remember that there is a commencement ceremony after every term. It is critical that every department sign off on grades from every class with enough time for to assure that all potential graduates have met the requirements. Commencement is the self policing deadline. You make it sound like many many professors do not grade finals in a timely manner. Let's be honest that 100% of the time that this happens and there is a potential graduate in the class a dean hears about it.

You might be overstating the issue a bit. I'm not questioning the issues you said you had or your relative had, however a little common sense concludes that this is not a wholesale problem.

 

[RU62]

Do we have any facts on the table as far as when Nadir took his final exam and how much time has expired since then and his not receiving a final grade. As 85 had pointed out years ago there was a short run between taking an exam and posting a grade. In the old pre computer era it was standard to include with your blue book exam a post card where you would often ask for your exam grade and your final grade. With very few exceptions you had your grade within a week and that postcard was mailed to you.

Just curious but has the specific course involved ever been mentioned (although somewhere it may have been refered to as a dance course...if so wow how can anyone screw this up. Come on Nadir do what is expected!) Also is the instructor a full time tenured faculty person, an adjunct faculty member or someone just teaching a summer school course. By the same token has his name ever been revealed. Seems to me we know the name of all the players except the key one involved in making a claim of impropriety....something that the media folks seem to conveniently omit in any commentary.

 

[retired711]

Do we have any facts on the table as far as when Nadir took his final exam and how much time has expired since then and his not receiving a final grade. As 85 had pointed out years ago there was a short run between taking an exam and posting a grade. In the old pre computer era it was standard to include with your blue book exam a post card where you would often ask for your exam grade and your final grade. With very few exceptions you had your grade within a week and that postcard was mailed to you.

Just curious but has the specific course involved ever been mentioned (although somewhere it may have been refered to as a dance course...if so wow how can anyone screw this up. Come on Nadir do what is expected!) Also is the instructor a full time tenured faculty person, an adjunct faculty member or someone just teaching a summer school course. By the same token has his name ever been revealed. Seems to me we know the name of all the players except the key one involved in making a claim of impropriety....something that the media folks seem to conveniently omit in any commentary.

The University is probably holding the name confidential for fear the professor would be harassed.

 

[RUsSKii]

Regardless of what happened in this particular case, let's be clear that there is a noticeable problem at Rutgers with final grades being submitted in a timely fashion. I spent 4 years in the engineering school, and there wasn't one single semester that I didn't have to wait at least a week after finals were COMPLETELY OVER to receive all my grades. The MyRutgers electronic system was updated with grades on a daily basis, so I'm pretty sure that the disconnect was not there. What's worse is that most of the classes in question were engineering-related, with multiple-choice and/or calculation-based final exams. I'll never forget Probability and Statistics fall semester of junior year for which I received my final grade in EARLY JANUARY.

 

[Knight_Light]

Do we have any facts on the table as far as when Nadir took his final exam and how much time has expired since then and his not receiving a final grade.

Summer semester ended on Aug 12th so any final exams/papers, etc...could have been before that.

Also, don't think its been stated that Nadir's grade for that class hasn't been finalized because the grade could have been posted, which probably meant Nadir would have been ineligible to play for this football season, maybe that's when Flood tried to intervene, maybe ask for a T grade so the final grade could be higher.

Football staff knew back in May that Nadir was in academic trouble and probably knew the specific minimum grade that was needed this summer for him to be eligible in the fall. Its certainly perceivable that the final grade was known, hence the interaction to possible get it changed to a T and then maybe to another grade.

 

[RUChoppin]

Just to add a little perspective on why it can take some time to get grades in.

If there are 100 students with a blue-book final with written answers, and each final takes 10 minutes to grade, that's 18 hours of grading for that one exam. That's why a lot of finals are multiple choice.

I had a Later Romantic Lit class that had a part-multiple choice / part-blue-book final exam, and a 13-15 page final paper due the following day. There were 60 people in that class, and no TA. Assuming 5-10 minutes to grade each exam, and 10 min to grade each paper, that's 20 solid hours of grading - for just one section of the course.

On the flip side, if it's a multiple choice exam on a Scantron sheet, or something, they can run that through a machine and have 100 exams graded in minutes.