Rutgers watching Massoud in Dallas
- Thread starter RU-Choppin-Ohio
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To be clear, I am saying that as a freshman, Geo played as like he was a 4 Star HS recruit. He had a HUGE role and he often delivered. If Montez Mathis in his FR year can play at the same level as Geo did last year, I am very happy.
He did shoot 32.2% from the field in B1G regular season and only 9.4 PPG playing the 2 guard and getting 30 MPG. That doesn't get you playing time at most schools. The last game of the year sticks in people's minds.
Baker looked worn out at times but that can be expected as a true freshman playing in the B1G. He should be bigger and stronger next year but could also benefit from more of a rotation where he can stay fresh
I mean the kid got sick in February and lost 10 pounds, and it affected him even after he returned to the court. That must be taken into account in evaluating his true freshman season.
Who's to say he wouldn't have played in February like he did in the B1G tournament?
His numbers pre getting sick were bad too.
I am a big Geo Baker fan. I like everything about him. I just don't have him in pen as the guy getting 30 MPG and getting 14 PPG as my 2 guard. It is my hope and expectation that he improves a lot or we get players at RU that are frankly better.
I think you have to be a realist...guys batting .190 don't stay in baseball lineups. Geo is going to have to be able to shoot it around the 40% mark with same or more volume to be part of a good offense. If he doesn't he will be replaced.
I am not sure what to expect from Geo in his Rutgers career. Obviously I am very happy he wears our uniform. Like all of our players offensively we need to be a lot better.
I'll agree with FIG here. Geo played like a good 3 star. Check out his numbers vs. 4-star Brad Davison vs. 5-star Jaren Jackson. Yes I know Jackson played a different position but he was the B1G's only 5-star recruit.
2-point %:
Baker 38%
Davison 47%
Jackson 60%
3-point:
Baker 37%
Davison 36%
Jackson 40%
Free throw %:
Baker 78%
Davison 82%
Jackson 80%
Obviously Jackson had better block and rebounding numbers, while Baker and Davison assisted more. But that 9% difference on 2-pointers is not insignificant and is a clear separator of 3-star Baker and 4-star Davison IMO. I'm excited for Geo's future but no need to overhype him. And yes he was sick which may have impacted his numbers but Davison was playing with a bum shoulder that required surgery.
2-point %:
Baker 38%
Davison 47%
Jackson 60%
3-point:
Baker 37%
Davison 36%
Jackson 40%
Free throw %:
Baker 78%
Davison 82%
Jackson 80%
Obviously Jackson had better block and rebounding numbers, while Baker and Davison assisted more. But that 9% difference on 2-pointers is not insignificant and is a clear separator of 3-star Baker and 4-star Davison IMO. I'm excited for Geo's future but no need to overhype him. And yes he was sick which may have impacted his numbers but Davison was playing with a bum shoulder that required surgery.
keep stars out....
getting analytical here...
70PPG as a team I'd like to see 25%-25%-25%-15%-10% so need 17.5 PPG per guard slot.
Geo plays 30 MPG would like to see 13.1 PPG. I think with 25% volume he can be a 13PPG guy playing 30 minutes. It can't happen unless shooting %s increase.
Last year some/most of that was on Geo, but it is possible a lot had to do with his surroundings.
I want to see Geo score more without needing a dribble. There is no doubt the step back shot is very important to our offense. It will be needed when the ball is more likely to be in his hands with the shot clocking ticking down, but for us to be rolling we need guys how can catch and shoot and make.
getting analytical here...
70PPG as a team I'd like to see 25%-25%-25%-15%-10% so need 17.5 PPG per guard slot.
Geo plays 30 MPG would like to see 13.1 PPG. I think with 25% volume he can be a 13PPG guy playing 30 minutes. It can't happen unless shooting %s increase.
Last year some/most of that was on Geo, but it is possible a lot had to do with his surroundings.
I want to see Geo score more without needing a dribble. There is no doubt the step back shot is very important to our offense. It will be needed when the ball is more likely to be in his hands with the shot clocking ticking down, but for us to be rolling we need guys how can catch and shoot and make.
FIG--batting .190? Really? That's how you sum up Baker? Wow.
Baker was asked to do more than he should have, and IMO did a great job. I am very excited by his potential over the next 3 years, esp as we get better players around him.
Baker was asked to do more than he should have, and IMO did a great job. I am very excited by his potential over the next 3 years, esp as we get better players around him.
Geo is not measured by PPG...if anything his PPG should likely decrease this season IF you are getting to 70PPG....that means others are scoring.....add the focus of actually hosting recruits as a true freshman, scholar athlete, developing into a team leader....lots being asked of a youngster but look beyond the stats...
These recent comments reminds me of a sort of Paralysis by Analysis. Over analyzing is a Bad Thing.
I don't know... I don't agree with FIG, but I do think as a sophomore, with a different type of team around him, I'd like to see him get at minimum the same ppg with a more efficient shooting offense. If his fg and 3pt numbers go up even a little, he should be able to maintain those numbers with a lot less shots.
I go by the eye test and Geo I think did outstanding for us considering he didn't have players around him like most other BIG teams did. I think GRF is too analytical and is often too critical. He acts like he is correct almost 100 % of the time. We all have opinions and we all should be able to say what we think. Geo lost 10 pounds and was not 100 % for games #28-#32 of our season. In games #33 and # 34 (our last two games) at MSG he was outstanding scoring 15 & 25 points. There were many on our site that said he would not even play 10 minutes a game before the season. People were writing him off as being not even worthy of a scholarship. Now after playing 30 mpg and averaging 10.8 even with the time he was sick included we are told that he didn't have a good season. That is wrong.
Well said. If he averaged 10.8 ppg as a true freshman, one has to think those numbers will go up in future years. Not a guarantee, of course, but the odds are in favor of it.
Mike Williams missing a month did not help either. Too many minutes for Geo.
Lots of players to choose from for this award. Baker has a bright future here.
Not sure why GRF is at all pessimistic about Geo. Late in the season, he had played more minutes than any other B1G freshman, and he battled illness and injury for a while. Strapped as we were for bodies, and with so little from Mensah and Bullock, Geo had to take on a much heavier load than he needed to, and he wore down even before illness and injury hit.
OK, 33G 29 starts averaged 31.6 minutes, even with a few games late when he didn't play much. 10.8 PPG, even with a 4-game stretch late when he was slowed by illness and injury and totaled 12 points in those 4 games. 38% shooting; 36% from 3, which is a strength, and 78.5% from the foul line. Met rookie of the year
Geo has confidence, a great attitude, seems to have leadership qualities, has size, smarts and plenty of game. Think having to defer to Corey affected his game some and there will be more chemistry, plus more than three guards that Pike trusts. Geo should take a strong step forward his soph season, maybe lead the team in scoring. Hope he gets first shot at PG--saw some nice play from him last year at that position. He is a willing distributor, but he can also score from PG.
TL
OK, 33G 29 starts averaged 31.6 minutes, even with a few games late when he didn't play much. 10.8 PPG, even with a 4-game stretch late when he was slowed by illness and injury and totaled 12 points in those 4 games. 38% shooting; 36% from 3, which is a strength, and 78.5% from the foul line. Met rookie of the year
Geo has confidence, a great attitude, seems to have leadership qualities, has size, smarts and plenty of game. Think having to defer to Corey affected his game some and there will be more chemistry, plus more than three guards that Pike trusts. Geo should take a strong step forward his soph season, maybe lead the team in scoring. Hope he gets first shot at PG--saw some nice play from him last year at that position. He is a willing distributor, but he can also score from PG.
TL
I believe Mike Williams is in the process of signing an offer to play overseas. Great for Mike!
Baker had a very good freshmen season but the team had another losing season.In the end winning is more important than individual stats.Returning players must show marked improvement and the new players must demonstrate they can perform in a power conference.
If this team is stacked with Geo Bakers in all of the positions, and spaced out in regards to classes, do you think we are a losing team? I don't.
Your analysis fails to mention the talent of league opponents.Its not by accident that Rutgers has remained a bottom tier B1G member .All Rutgers fans want meaningful change that will make Rutgers relevant in college basketball.
If you guys are going to poo-poo Geo, his performance from last season, and his importance to the team going forward, you might as well advocate we shut down the program because with your logic, no one on the current roster (including the newcomers) is good enough to play at the B1G level.
You are either clueless, unrealistic, or just like to argue.
The RUJMM78s of the world never say anything relevant unfortunately....it's speaking in cliches and generalizations...they are what's OK with fans but it's like a lottery winner complaining about how much in taxes you have to pay.
Greene is a good guy who I've met and spoken with in person etc....i will say Greene if we are moving on to the next target of angst since Corey isnt here, be prepared to spread blame around....there's more help coming and plenty of people to point to finger at, during this renaissance of RU hoops....not sure how we've moved on to Baker as the point of criticism when he (at least to me) proved he's capable of the next step.
That doesn't mean he's a 5* headed to the NBA, but is a quality kid that i believe you have craved for....yet it's not enough i guess....
Greene is a good guy who I've met and spoken with in person etc....i will say Greene if we are moving on to the next target of angst since Corey isnt here, be prepared to spread blame around....there's more help coming and plenty of people to point to finger at, during this renaissance of RU hoops....not sure how we've moved on to Baker as the point of criticism when he (at least to me) proved he's capable of the next step.
That doesn't mean he's a 5* headed to the NBA, but is a quality kid that i believe you have craved for....yet it's not enough i guess....
As you say Baker checks all the boxes that I look for and am very glad he is here. He is very easy to root for and will be one of my favorite players. Helping land players on recruiting trips as a freshman is priceless.
Every player that we have won't be a star or a starter. You can have a ton of value to the program playing 15 MPG and doing everything right on and off the court.
I honestly don't know what Baker's ceiling is and what type of player he will ultimately be. It was OK for Mike Williams to be a 4 year player and not be a starter his senior year because Pikiell brought in players who were better. Not sure why it isn't a crazy thought to expect Pikiell to be able to bring in players that could potentially slightly or significantly reduce the minutes Baker played as a freshman.
Believe me I get the freshman wall...I know it is real i have seen it firsthand. It is part physical, but mostly mental. It did have a huge factor in his performance. He played way too many minutes and i think to some extent that was on Pikiell and then the Williams injury compounded it.
I think the jury is out on Baker still as a basketball player. We now he can play, but at what level. Because of Pikiell it appears default minutes are a thing of the past.
This board LOVES players who haven't put the uniform on and players that have until December of their 2nd year. At that point realistic views emerge on a player.
NJH is easily on the best here and I value everything he says. I take his overly positive views with a small grain of salt. When push comes to shove I am viewed as negative and he is viewed as positive, but in the end we actual see things very similarly.
Every player that we have won't be a star or a starter. You can have a ton of value to the program playing 15 MPG and doing everything right on and off the court.
I honestly don't know what Baker's ceiling is and what type of player he will ultimately be. It was OK for Mike Williams to be a 4 year player and not be a starter his senior year because Pikiell brought in players who were better. Not sure why it isn't a crazy thought to expect Pikiell to be able to bring in players that could potentially slightly or significantly reduce the minutes Baker played as a freshman.
Believe me I get the freshman wall...I know it is real i have seen it firsthand. It is part physical, but mostly mental. It did have a huge factor in his performance. He played way too many minutes and i think to some extent that was on Pikiell and then the Williams injury compounded it.
I think the jury is out on Baker still as a basketball player. We now he can play, but at what level. Because of Pikiell it appears default minutes are a thing of the past.
This board LOVES players who haven't put the uniform on and players that have until December of their 2nd year. At that point realistic views emerge on a player.
NJH is easily on the best here and I value everything he says. I take his overly positive views with a small grain of salt. When push comes to shove I am viewed as negative and he is viewed as positive, but in the end we actual see things very similarly.
I think Geo struggled because he was a freshman and was asked to do too much. Our guards were Sanders, Geo, Williams, Souf and Bullock, with some Thiam sprinkled in there. Not much depth there. No shooters to spread the floor or offense overall. Sanders wasn't much of a drive and pass player so Baker was pretty much trying to make his own shot the whole time. Its hard to compare him to other players in the BIG when Rutgers had the worst depth and team. He was playing 30 minutes out of necessity. I look forward to him being the PG this year. He's got great vision and might be our best passer. He can create plays for other players when he isn't on his game
The thing that drives me crazy with the player evaluations on this board is that people look at a kid's freshman stats (or in the case of Young, freshman and sophomore stats) and assume that that's the ceiling of what we'll get from that player in subsequent years.
Most players improve from year to year, and with Pike at the helm, we have hard evidence that he will develop and improve players from year to year (See Sanders, Omoruyi). With the Omoruyi example in particular as Exhibit A, does anyone think that Geo WON'T improve MARKEDLY by next year in all facets of his game? Or that Pike won't "coach up" Young over the next year to become a valued member of his PG rotation in 2019?
Baker averaged 10.8 ppg over 31+ minutes as a true freshman in the Big Ten conference, and almost single-handedly brought us to the brink of a monumental upset of Purdue in the B1G tournament. Let all that sink in for a moment, and then ponder what Baker could become in the next three seasons.
Most players improve from year to year, and with Pike at the helm, we have hard evidence that he will develop and improve players from year to year (See Sanders, Omoruyi). With the Omoruyi example in particular as Exhibit A, does anyone think that Geo WON'T improve MARKEDLY by next year in all facets of his game? Or that Pike won't "coach up" Young over the next year to become a valued member of his PG rotation in 2019?
Baker averaged 10.8 ppg over 31+ minutes as a true freshman in the Big Ten conference, and almost single-handedly brought us to the brink of a monumental upset of Purdue in the B1G tournament. Let all that sink in for a moment, and then ponder what Baker could become in the next three seasons.
Nobody thinks that. But go back and look at my post about Baker vs. Davison (a 4-star example). Assuming they both improve at the same rate (and there's no good reason to say one will improve more than the other), then Baker remains behind him and other 4 stars who outperformed him.
But you only picked Davison to fit your opinion.
Other 4 stars in the BIG:
Isiah Washington Minnesota G- FG:.366 FT.:765 3PT:.241
Mark Smith Illinois G- FG.337 FT.796 3PT.232
Trent Frazier Illinois G- FG.405 FT.644 3PT.347
Geo Baker Rutgers G FG.380 FT.785 3PT.361
Seems to fit in just fine with 4 star players to me
I am a realistic fan who has been a season ticket holder for football and mens basketball for more than 20 years which means I have seen and heard it all.Every fan has a right to express their opinions.Winning matters in sports and spin expressed on message boards isn't going to change what happens on the playing field or the basketball court.Talent matters and I have stated many times that I am a big supporter in Coach Pikiell and staff.
Smith and Washington were big disappointments but your point is well taken. Perhaps if I have the time I'll look at the average performance of 4-star guards in the Big Ten. It's possible my expectations are skewed.
Big Disappointments or just true freshmen? Unless you are a top 50 player, true freshmen don't usually come in and light it up.
Smith transferred to Missouri....Washington has been rumored as a transfer out since Kimani Young left Minnesota as an assistant to join Danny Hurley and UConn....
For Your and Fig...
So if Baker is not the level of recruit we need to compete in the B1G, is ANYONE on our roster the kind of player we need to compete?
If not, we are starting with 0 players that meet your criteria.
How depressing.
That is my point.
If that is the case, why bother following the team?
Please stop with the nonsense.I commended Baker on his freshmen season and getting the rookie of the year award in the NYC Metro area.What you fail to address is my comment of B1G talent versus what Rutgers has put on the court since joining the league.That is the central issue which has prevented Rutgers from achieving a winning season even with very easy out of conference schedules.Nobody knows how the Rutgers team will perform this season with all the new players.At the same time fans should have minimum expectations for team performance and that is a winning season.
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