Schedule

[Degaz-RU]

I don't understand why some people are dead set against playing a single OOC game against Duke next year when we will have Ace and Dylan, along with a supporting cast of Mag, JMike, Simpson, and JWill. How in the world is this possibly a bad thing?

This is a rough analogy -- very rough -- but being against playing a marquee game like Duke, and instead trying to schedule out of conference games to "assure" an NCAA bid, is like Chris Ash punting at the opponent's 38 yard line. It's "playing not to lose" instead of playing to win.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I’m just saying we do well against certain types of teams, many of which are represented in the BIG. Teams that know how to spread the floor and have multiple shooters and make an extra pass don’t have much trouble with our defense. Iowa does it virtually every team they play us, ND did it to us in the play in, they couldn’t stop us (mainly Caleb) from scoring, but scored on us at will, Princeton did the same, and like a lot system coaches, Pike doesn’t adjust well when it is clear his system isn‘t working.

you aren't supporting that with facts.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

absolutely on the first count

2nd point you are being ridiculous..please come to this discussion properly

why is point #2 ridiculous....

 

[Scangg]

why is point #2 ridiculous....

Bc we aren't talking about scheduling the #1 OOC schedule in the country. We are talking about 1 game against an elite program

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Bc we aren't talking about scheduling the #1 OOC schedule in the country. We are talking about 1 game against an elite program

the 3-7 record against #1 OOC wasn't ridiculous you would agree.

 

[Scangg]

the 3-7 record against #1 OOC wasn't ridiculous you would agree.

It's pretty ridiculous. There is a 0% chance we schedule anything remotely close to the #1 OOC schedule

We are likely to have an OOC schedule in the 100s even with Duke

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It's pretty ridiculous. There is a 0% chance we schedule anything remotely close to the #1 OOC schedule

We are likely to have an OOC schedule in the 100s even with Duke

What if he changed it to 3-7 with a OOC in the 60s.

I think point is moot because Pike is going to be smart with his scheduling. There will be 2-3 tests before B1G season and 7-8 cupcakes to get youngsters acclimated to college basketball and allow them to make mistakes and hopefully learn from them.

 

[Scangg]

I think point is moot because Pike is going to be smart with his scheduling. There will be 2-3 tests before B1G season and 7-8 cupcakes to get youngsters acclimated to college basketball and allow them to make mistakes and hopefully learn from them.

Exactly. So why is the thought of one of those tests against Duke so scary? It's strange

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Exactly. So why is the thought of one of those tests against Duke so scary? It's strange

why the distraction of Ace and Dylan VS Flagg.....

We need to win basketball games and get better as a team. If we are going to play any tough games at least play them in December when we have a month and 7 games under our belt.

The princeton game was a disaster. I think/don't know we would beat princeton if we played them now.

 

[Scangg]

why the distraction of Ace and Dylan VS Flagg.....

We need to win basketball games and get better as a team. If we are going to play any tough games at least play them in December when we have a month and 7 games under our belt.

The princeton game was a disaster. I think/don't know we would beat princeton if we played them now.

A Duke game at MSG would be the game the team was most dialed in to play all season

Maybe a risk of looking last whoever they play the game before it?

Hear me out for one second.... what if... just spit balling here... we actually win the game?!?

It's not a guaranteed auto loss

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Maybe i am over protective and am overestimating the curve that our team would have.

I'd rather us get better and do things in the lab and away from the public eye. If Pike wants/needs to bench Dylan and/or Ace he can do it in obscurity vs. Bryant on a Tuesday in front of 8,000 on the RAC on B1G TV. With everyone watching on ESPN in a sold out MSG is he really going to do that.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

What if he changed it to 3-7 with a OOC in the 60s.

I think point is moot because Pike is going to be smart with his scheduling. There will be 2-3 tests before B1G season and 7-8 cupcakes to get youngsters acclimated to college basketball and allow them to make mistakes and hopefully learn from them.

I think what he’s saying is it’s ridiculous because nobody is arguing that we should (or would ever consider) scheduling 10 “real” games so regardless of where the OOC SOS clogs in - this scenario would never come to be.

Actually, most have said let’s just swap one real game against Miss St, Wake or Princeton for a game against a perrenial tournament team like Duke that’s as close to a lock as you can get to be a top 30 NET team. One opponent like this. That’s all. That has nothing to do with elevating the risk of 3-7. Give yourself a chance to pick up a huge resume building win. If you lose, it’s one loss not seven. Why is this a problem? To your point - I think we’ll be better in Jan than Nov but that’s true of a lot of teams and could well be true of Duke and less so of a so called easier veteran SEC team like Miss State. Its not even a given the Miss State game played in Nov is materially more winnable.

 

[Scangg]

Maybe i am over protective and am overestimating the curve that our team would have.

I'd rather us get better and do things in the lab and away from the public eye. If Pike wants/needs to bench Dylan and/or Ace he can do it in obscurity vs. Bryant on a Tuesday in front of 8,000 on the RAC on B1G TV. With everyone watching on ESPN in a sold out MSG is he really going to do that.

It's one game. He has plenty of cupcake games for teaching moments. You also learn a lottt playing against elite competition that you can't replicate by playing Bryant

Don't you think it would benefit Dylan and Ace to test themselves against the best? Learn what they can and can't get away with against elite teams

There is a risk Dylan and Ace don't develop enough in OOC if the schedule is too soft and aren't ready for the B1G schedule

 

[NickRU714]

Bc we aren't talking about scheduling the #1 OOC schedule in the country. We are talking about 1 game against an elite program

But but but....hear me out:
If losing to Duke is better than beating Mississippi State then losing to Duke (or similar teams) is way better than beating lower ranked teams than Mississippi State.

And if results don't matter:
Schedule Duke, UConn, Houston etc.
Going 0-10 against #1 OOC is better than 10-0 against #330 OOC.

We're basically a lock to make the tourney then I think?
Don't even bother trying to get useless wins against cupcakes. Rake up the losses to elite teams and clinch that bid by January.


Nothing wrong with adding Duke.
It's not scared. Just pointless to swap Miss State with Duke when we can't even beat Miss St. yet.

 

[The RUT]

Didn’t read the entire thread, but are people really complaining about scheduling Duke or another name program?

Because we might lose? lol.

Holy smokes

 

[fluoxetine]

not for nothing but no one cares about 11 seeds who finish 19-12 with a non conference sos of 333

No one except the ultra college basketball nerds in places like this knows or cares what a team’s non conference SOS was (and it’s a dumb stat).

 

[Scangg]

No one except the ultra college basketball nerds in places like this knows or cares what a team’s non conference SOS was (and it’s a dumb stat).

Except the tournament committee clearly knows and cares and they are the ones making the decision

I agree it's dumb and overall SOS should really be the metric used. Personally, I would give more credit to smaller conference teams with a weak in conference SOS who scheduled a tougher OOC schedule, but not punish teams too much from major conferences who have an overall high SOS... but I'm not on the committee

 

[Nycrusupporter]

you aren't supporting that with facts.

The sample size is small because we do not play in the BIG 12 or the SEC, where teams play faster and shoot better. In the last three games against us, Iowa has shot between 44% and 50% from 3, Princeton shot 45% from 3, ND shot 52% overall. If I go back in time against Iowa beyond the last few years I would find similar numbers. Why were the percentages so high? By making one extra pass, because we were overplaying the ball, many of those shots were wide open. Fortunately we are in the BIG, and just as Pike has shown an inability to adjust defense when it’s not working, many of our conference mates are unable to adjust their offenses to take advantage of the obvious weaknesses in our defense. They play systems and can‘t adapt.

 

[fluoxetine]

Except the tournament committee clearly knows and cares and they are the ones making the decision

I actually think this is less clear than others do because I think they make their selections and then just kind of spew argle bargle at the media. Last year it kind of sounded like they decided to leave us out and then asked ChatGPT to generate their reasoning for them.

 

[fluoxetine]

The sample size is small because we do not play in the BIG 12 or the SEC, where teams play faster and shoot better. In the last three games against us, Iowa has shot between 44% and 50% from 3, Princeton shot 45% from 3, ND shot 52% overall. If I go back in time against Iowa beyond the last few years I would find similar numbers. Why were the percentages so high? By making one extra pass, because we were overplaying the ball, many of those shots were wide open. Fortunately we are in the BIG, and just as Pike has shown an inability to adjust defense when it’s not working, many of our conference mates are unable to adjust their offenses to take advantage of the obvious weaknesses in our defense. They play systems and can‘t adapt.

The Big Ten is ranked as the #1 conference in offensive efficiency. The Big Ten is extremely slightly below average in tempo (68.6 vs 68.8 NCAA average, this is 0.3% fewer possessions per game than average). It is exactly the same tempo as the Big 12 and Big East (the SEC is faster at 69.7).

You should check these things before spewing the nonsense.

 

[Scangg]

I actually think this is less clear than others do because I think they make their selections and then just kind of spew argle bargle at the media. Last year it kind of sounded like they decided to leave us out and then asked ChatGPT to generate their reasoning for them.

I think Rutgers fell victim to the B1G's recent poor tournament performance and the committee already decided against siding with a B1G school on the bubble

It's really the only thing that makes sense to me

 

[kcg88]

I actually think this is less clear than others do because I think they make their selections and then just kind of spew argle bargle at the media. Last year it kind of sounded like they decided to leave us out and then asked ChatGPT to generate their reasoning for them.

Right. NC State got in with a NCSOS under 300. TCU's was 339th and they went 9-9 in the Big 12 and still got a 6 seed.

 

[fluoxetine]

The Big Ten is ranked as the #1 conference in offensive efficiency. The Big Ten is extremely slightly below average in tempo (68.6 vs 68.8 NCAA average, this is 0.3% fewer possessions per game than average). It is exactly the same tempo as the Big 12 and Big East (the SEC is faster at 69.7).

You should check these things before spewing the nonsense.

Also the SEC is #29 in 3p% lol

 

[bac2therac]

why is point #2 ridiculous....

because we are not scheduling the #1 non conference sos..,.good lord, the board is unreadable at this point fretting about missing the tourney for all kinds of reasons

 

[bac2therac]

the 3-7 record against #1 OOC wasn't ridiculous you would agree.

yes it is and if we suck so bad it doesnt matter what kind of scheduling

sounds like we have a segment of fans not very confident in coach pikiells abilities that they are handwringing about having nba lottery picks on the team and would rather go back to the days of geoff billet and rob hodgson overachieving in a mom and pop organization

 

[bac2therac]

No one except the ultra college basketball nerds in places like this knows or cares what a team’s non conference SOS was (and it’s a dumb stat).

omg ive explained this before...its a RED FLAG, you want to not have any red flags, you can get in with a sos over 300, but its not that common at all. You can get in with a road mark of 1-9 but its not that common, you can get in only 3 games above 500 but its not that common at all. You can get in with 2 Q4 losses but its not that common at all.

The whole point is you want to avoid anything where the selection committee can point to that will leave you out.

they specifically said you need to win games ooc, to continue to say it doesnt matter is just not true

 

[bac2therac]

Didn’t read the entire thread, but are people really complaining about scheduling Duke or another name program?

Because we might lose? lol.

Holy smokes

this fanbase has zero expectations, they think handwringing and trying to be a bubble team every year is just the cats meow

 

[bac2therac]

Right. NC State got in with a NCSOS under 300. TCU's was 339th and they went 9-9 in the Big 12 and still got a 6 seed.

you should know better, its one metric not a disqualifier but i can list you schools who had great nets who got left out because their non conference sos was shit. Its a balance of a what the committee is looking at

its one of the reasons that Nebby still has work to do despite 2 incredible wins...very similar to RU a couple years back...road and non conference sos, is the Kansas State road win good enough

 

[biazza38]

You guys are missing the bigger picture.
Players want to play on the big stage.
Yes, we play in the B1G, but if we can utilize the garden and get top opponents, we will have a better chance of continuing to get guys like Ace Bailey and Dylan Harper

 

[bac2therac]

since everyone is so hung up on Duke, it doesnt have to be Duke, it could be Baylor or Kentucky or North Carolina or Alabama

 

[bac2therac]

You guys are missing the bigger picture.
Players want to play on the big stage.
Yes, we play in the B1G, but if we can utilize the garden and get top opponents, we will have a better chance of continuing to get guys like Ace Bailey and Dylan Harper

you mean people wouldnt pay $80 a ticket for RU to play Fordham at msg

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

No one except the ultra college basketball nerds in places like this knows or cares what a team’s non conference SOS was (and it’s a dumb stat).

Even if that’s true - beating a team like Duke on a neutral floor is almost always a signature win that stands out. The potential upside for this alone is well worth whatever the gap is in probability of a win relative to if the game was against Miss State. There’s a material chance of losing either game.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

since everyone is so hung up on Duke, it doesnt have to be Duke, it could be Baylor or Kentucky or North Carolina or Alabama

Yes exactly. The point is a team that is either consistently very good or projected to be based on prior year returnees and recruits.

 

[biazza38]

you mean people wouldnt pay $80 a ticket for RU to play Fordham at msg

It’s unbelievable. We have the #2 and #3 players in the class and it’s almost as if some don’t want the country to know about it

 

[fluoxetine]

omg ive explained this before...its a RED FLAG, you want to not have any red flags, you can get in with a sos over 300, but its not that common at all. You can get in with a road mark of 1-9 but its not that common, you can get in only 3 games above 500 but its not that common at all. You can get in with 2 Q4 losses but its not that common at all.

The whole point is you want to avoid anything where the selection committee can point to that will leave you out.

they specifically said you need to win games ooc, to continue to say it doesnt matter is just not true

This seems a bit hypocritical since you are shaming posters here for worrying about being on the bubble. Shouldn't I reply "well we have two NBA lottery picks and you're worried about being close enough to the bubble that NCSOS is a red flag?"

Even if that’s true - beating a team like Duke on a neutral floor is almost always a signature win that stands out. The potential upside for this alone is well worth whatever the gap is in probability of a win relative to if the game was against Miss State. There’s a material chance of losing either game.

I'm not against playing Duke.

 

[fluoxetine]

i can list you schools who had great nets who got left out because their non conference sos was shit

Well name them.

 

[NickRU714]

Right. NC State got in with a NCSOS under 300. TCU's was 339th and they went 9-9 in the Big 12 and still got a 6 seed.

TCU: 11-2 OOC
NC State: 10-1 OOC
Rutgers: 8-3 OOC

Our OOC ranking isn't a problem.
It's our record against that poor OOC ranking.
If we beat just one of Temple, Seton Hall or Miami last year then we are in and nobody is complaining about OOC ranking.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I'm not against playing Duke.

I know - your comment just got tangled up in the back and forth with Green said about 3-7 and the SOS level.

My point here is that IMO a decision to schedule at least one game vs a Duke/UK type instead of a Miss State/Wake type somewhat parallels your argument on why most players should attempt more 3 point shots over 2s. You get 50% more credit for making the 3 and while most guys shoot better from 2 - not enough so to make up for the extra credit. Same thing with scheduling a marquee opponent over an average major conference team. Although it can’t be precisely quantified, a signature win over a team like UK or Duke means a lot more on a resume than a win over an NIT team. While it may be easier to beat the NIT team, the gap in difficulty doesn’t make up for the upside difference. That’s not factoring in that there’s no guarantee that a Clemson or Wake type will even be an NIT team in a given year.

 

[NickRU714]

I know - your comment just got tangled up in the back and forth with Green said about 3-7 and the SOS level.

My point here is that IMO a decision to schedule at least one game vs a Duke/UK type instead of a Miss State/Wake type somewhat parallels your argument on why most players should attempt more 3 point shots over 2s. You get 50% more credit for making the 3 and while most guys shoot better from 2 - not enough so to make up for the extra credit. Same thing with scheduling a marquee opponent over an average major conference team. Although it can’t be precisely quantified, a signature win over a team like UK or Duke means a lot more on a resume than a win over an NIT team. While it may be easier to beat the NIT team, the gap in difficulty doesn’t make up for the upside difference. That’s not factoring in that there’s no guarantee that a Clemson or Wake type will even be an NIT team in a given year.

The difference is we are shooting about 15% from 2 and now saying take more difficult 3s.

It's not "shooting 33% from 3 is better than 40% from 2".

Get to 40% from 2 at least before firing up 3s.
We aren't getting wins over NIT teams now.

Every single anology thrown out about "beating up on easier OOC team not worth the effort.....blah blah blah" (shooting 2 v 3, playing older brother v younger brother) is just ignoring that we haven't even beaten up on NIT level teams yet.
Go back 3 years and we are losing to the younger brother, losing to the NIT teams, shooting 20% from 2.

 

[Scangg]

since everyone is so hung up on Duke, it doesnt have to be Duke, it could be Baylor or Kentucky or North Carolina or Alabama

Wondering if there is something specific about Duke or if it's any elite program?

If we don't want to play a Duke, UNC, Kentucky Kansas etc type next year, are we against playing them at any point for the rest of time? If not next season, when?

Again it's ONE game!

Have 2 or 3 other "real" games of varying levels of "good"

This still leaves a TON of lower rated teams to pad the wins and let the young studs develop

Avoid or limit +300 games to 1 or 2 absolute max

This isn't some insanely hard OOC type schedule

I am completely against stacking the OOC schedule with as many top programs as we can play. The strawman argument implying this is not anything anyone is proposing. It is not anything Pike would ever consider. It's pointless to discuss