Schedule

[NickRU714]

yeah I dont get it either, our fans love hoping to just skate in at 20-12 and worry that ooh a tough schedule could put us at 18-14,,,guess what, if it does than maybe we are not really a tourney team.

We'd love to skate in at 20-12 with an easy schedule.

Last year's EASY schedule put us at 18-13.
The premise of "we need to upgrade because we've outgrown an easy OOC" falls apart when we've proven to not have outngrown.

As you say - we have not really been a tourney team even with an easy OOC.

20-21: 10 seed
21-22: 11 seed/last 4 in/play in game
22-23: Didn't make it, even if we did it was last 4 in by most expectations?
23-24: not close to a tournament team

 

[darkcheck]

I would like to play Duke because it would be fun and good exposure but I don't think it impacts making the tournament much in one way or another.

I agree with that straight up, what I feel it does imho is slowly improve the perception of the program, which helps recruiting and improves the chance of future tourneys.

 

[fluoxetine]

We'd love to skate in at 20-12 with an easy schedule.

Last year's EASY schedule put us at 18-13.
The premise of "we need to upgrade because we've outgrown an easy OOC" falls apart when we've proven to not have outngrown.

As you say - we have not really been a tourney team even with an easy OOC.

20-21: 10 seed
21-22: 11 seed/last 4 in/play in game
22-23: Didn't make it, even if we did it was last 4 in by most expectations?
23-24: not close to a tournament team

I mean to be fair we always seem to lose to whatever 50-150ish opponent we play road/neutral OOC anyway so we might as well play a top 10 team instead lol.

 

[fluoxetine]

I agree with that straight up, what I feel it does imho is slowly improve the perception of the program, which helps recruiting and improves the chance of future tourneys.

Yeah I mean I think there are two main arguments that people make here:

#1 We need to upgrade the OOC for NCAA tournament reasons. I basically 100% disagree with this.

#2 We should upgrade the OOC for OTHER reasons (fan interest, exposure, etc) and this won't hurt our NCAA tournament chances. This I basically agree with (though I care less about it than many others lol).

 

[G- RUnit]

The idea is to keep improving the program so you win and are not at the committee’s mercy. We can only do that by progressively upping the schedule, getting better recruits from more exposure and playing games that make those kids better. If our whole team, meaning the depth behind Mawot, was better and battle tested we don’t lose at Minne last year and put it out of the committee’s hands.

Or we have a better record and make it impossible for Committee to reject a 20 game B1G schedule to keep us out.
Whole world said we beat Michigan and we are in. We did and still left out?
RU gets in the tourney and subject to a play in game. Little odd. Indiana team we beat higher seed?
We have fans putting us against Duke?
We have fans giving up the RAC to play UCLA in MSG.
We have fans who were content with giving up a MSU game to the Garden, a home game for MSU and then the next year a single away game @ MSU. So MSU doesn’t play at the RAC for three years. With four new teams in the league would anyone be shocked if Izzo doesn’t come to the RAC in 2025?
SHU weasels out of playing Rutgers during Covid. SHU plays PSU instead. How does SHU do that to us? How does the BIG and PSU do that to us?
After we schedule the above MSU Garden game the NCAA re-categorizes the game?
Same game scheduled for noon?
Love playing Princeton but why on Earth would you open up with them?
Supposed to play ND and end up playing Temple in Connecticut. RU fans would have flocked for ND. Instead Temple in a morbid arena.
Wisconsin 1 point loss at Garden? Imagine if that was at RAC? Think different result?
Even Eddie beat Wisc at the RAC!
We never seem to benefit from these scheduling “upgrades.”
Hate giving up the RAC home court advantage.
I’m petrified of losing games and confidence until three freshman are prime time ready at end of year.
I’m fine with 20 game B1G schedule SHU and Princeton. That’s 22 games. Battle tested enough. I want W’s.

 

[G- RUnit]

Well why not Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, Houston, Baylor, Gonzaga, Texas, etc.
At least not really recruiting against those schools and we can fill arena with RU fans instead of Duke fans. Same reason why I wouldn’t play St. John’s or UConn.
Don’t particularly want to give Duke a recruiting advantage.
If you must play Duke, Home and Home. Let’s see how Duke handles playing in the RAC. Would Duke play us at Raleigh or Charlotte?

 

[ruinac]

yeah I dont get it either, our fans love hoping to just skate in at 20-12 and worry that ooh a tough schedule could put us at 18-14,,,guess what, if it does than maybe we are not really a tourney team.

Yes.

My dad put up a hoop when I was a kid. Beating my younger brother was fun, but playing against (and losing to) my older brother showed me what I had to work on to be a better player.

 

[NickRU714]

Yes.

My dad put up a hoop when I was a kid. Beating my younger brother was fun, but playing against (and losing to) my older brother showed me what I had to work on to be a better player.

Agreed - beating your younger brother is fun only for a bit.
Then it doesn't help.
But......we're losing to the younger brother.

Losses to the "younger brothers":
21-22: DePaul, Lafayette, UMass, SH
22-23: Temple, SH, Miami
23-24: Princeton, WF, Miss State

This is what we need to work on: replacing those games with wins.
We need to work on actually making the NCAA tournament easily and not being on the last 4 out/in bubble every year.

How about just 1 year of "beating the younger brother" before playing against (and losing to) the older brother?

 

[G- RUnit]

But did you play and beat your dad when he put up the hoop? I’m guessing you didn’t even try or if you did the results weren’t pretty.

Wasn’t there a tough loss to St. Bonaventure too?

Not convinced learning to swim in the big pool right away helps at all. Sometimes better to start with the doggie paddle. By end of year gradually could become Michael Phelps.

How many thought Gavin would be Chris Mullen right away? Some dinners take more time to cook.

Running out of analogies or is it parables? ;-)

 

[Nycrusupporter]

I would like to play Duke because it would be fun and good exposure but I don't think it impacts making the tournament much in one way or another.

It sure does if you beat them. And a loss doesn’t hurt much.

 

[G- RUnit]

It sure does if you beat them. And a loss doesn’t hurt much.

On a micro level you are correct but on a macro level, losses add up.

More than one way to skin a cat. Already have the B1G schedule and SHU for sure. So think there are enough battle tests.

Not trusting the NCAA or Committee at all. I want as good a record as possible. Not convinced that playing Duke because it would be fun helps. And if really want Duke make it fair. Home and home.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Well why not Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, Houston, Baylor, Gonzaga, Texas, etc.
At least not really recruiting against those schools and we can fill arena with RU fans instead of Duke fans. Same reason why I wouldn’t play St. John’s or UConn.
Don’t particularly want to give Duke a recruiting advantage.
If you must play Duke, Home and Home. Let’s see how Duke handles playing in the RAC. Would Duke play us at Raleigh or Charlotte?

The reason next year is that Flagg vs Ace and Dylan is a big story. Duke is a massive draw and just about every team in the country is trying to get on their schedule, so they get to pick and chose what they want to do, so home and home is not interesting to them. They want big venues and national TV coverage. Coming to NYC is big for their alumni, they play here once or twice a year already.

 

[cRURah]

Well why not Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, Houston, Baylor, Gonzaga, Texas, etc.
At least not really recruiting against those schools and we can fill arena with RU fans instead of Duke fans. Same reason why I wouldn’t play St. John’s or UConn.
Don’t particularly want to give Duke a recruiting advantage.
If you must play Duke, Home and Home. Let’s see how Duke handles playing in the RAC. Would Duke play us at Raleigh or Charlotte?

I agree with some of your points, however the RAC is not a great home court advantage if we are not a good team. See our home record this year against B1G opponents.

 

[G- RUnit]

I agree with some of your points, however the RAC is not a great home court advantage if we are not a good team. See our home record this year against B1G opponents.

Can you imagine though if we had a very good team plus that advantage?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The reason next year is that Flagg vs Ace and Dylan is a big story. Duke is a massive draw and just about every team in the country is trying to get on their schedule, so they get to pick and chose what they want to do, so home and home is not interesting to them. They want big venues and national TV coverage. Coming to NYC is big for their alumni, they play here once or twice a year already.

cooper flagg is irrelevant to any conversation about scheduling or anything Rutgers

I have more interest in Michael cooper or cecil cooper or cooper anderson

 

[bac2therac]

Holy crap we have the #2 and #3 players coming in. Projected top NBA draft picks in 2025 and our fans want a parade of RAC cupcakes preferring to go meow rather than woof

This is a once in a lifetime moment for this program

 

[G- RUnit]

Once in a lifetime moment to best position ourself for the NCAA tourney, not to get jollies for out of conference games. I’d like easiest path to get to Brooklyn.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

cooper flagg is irrelevant to any conversation about scheduling or anything Rutgers

I have more interest in Michael cooper or cecil cooper or cooper anderson

How about...

or

 

[biazza38]

cooper flagg is irrelevant to any conversation about scheduling or anything Rutgers

I have more interest in Michael cooper or cecil cooper or cooper anderson

Couldn’t be more wrong
Ace and Cooper are beasts and basketball is all about one on one match ups

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Couldn’t be more wrong
Ace and Cooper are beasts and basketball is all about one on one match ups

Why does what Cooper does impact our scheduling or have any relevance to Rutgers basketball.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Couldn’t be more wrong
Ace and Cooper are beasts and basketball is all about one on one match ups

Lets see how Ace and Dylan are impacted on the offensive end when they are required to use energy on the defensive end. Maybe the HS game was an all star game or an exhibition, but is was shocking how little energy they put on the defensive end. They will be asked to play defnese and expend energy. Lets see what happens in the 1st time of their life they have to play offense with their heart rate outside their normal offensive heart rate range.

 

[Sweet Peas Corner]

Lets see how Ace and Dylan are impacted on the offensive end when they are required to use energy on the defensive end. Maybe the HS game was an all star game or an exhibition, but is was shocking how little energy they put on the defensive end. They will be asked to play defnese and expend energy. Lets see what happens in the 1st time of their life they have to play offense with their heart rate outside their normal offensive heart rate range.

I think they have played enough basketball and to have energy and adjust to offense/defense. My only concern if they don't listen to how coach wants them to play and just play"their" type of ball. I'd love to see Flagg vs Ace.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think they have played enough basketball and to have energy and adjust to offense/defense. My only concern if they don't listen to how coach wants them to play and just play"their" type of ball. I'd love to see Flagg vs Ace.

No they dont play defense in AAU and in HS dont ask much of dylan on the defensive end

 

[biazza38]

Why does what Cooper does impact our scheduling or have any relevance to Rutgers basketball.

Because it should be a reasonable matchup to schedule. If you want a big game, Duke and RU is a good game to schedule and is very doable

 

[FrankZ]

Next year is the first time I'm venturing away from my general philosophy with sticking with the cupcakes until you can regularly beat them (we barely beat Stonehill by 1 pt this year for goodness sake). With Ace and Harper planned, I'm all in on Duke, etc.., but will likely revert to the aforementioned philosophy once they are gone...

 

[bac2therac]

Lets see how Ace and Dylan are impacted on the offensive end when they are required to use energy on the defensive end. Maybe the HS game was an all star game or an exhibition, but is was shocking how little energy they put on the defensive end. They will be asked to play defnese and expend energy. Lets see what happens in the 1st time of their life they have to play offense with their heart rate outside their normal offensive heart rate range.

Wow

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Wow

Wow is right. No one at Duke - fans, coaches, media, incoming recruits - are worried about Cooper’s heart rate coming to college. They are thinking that Flagg would tear Ace and Dylan apart if he got to play them. And the fear from some people on this board indicates a lot of people here feel that way too.

 

[kcg88]

Wow is right. No one at Duke - fans, coaches, media, incoming recruits - are worried about Cooper’s heart rate coming to college. They are thinking that Flagg would tear Ace and Dylan apart If he got to play them. And the fear from some people on this board indicates a lot of people here feel that way too.

To be fair Flagg is way way way more active defensively in AAU/HS. A big reason he's rated #1 is because he's such a gifted defender (physically and with his instincts).

I think FIG goes a little overboard with this stuff but it's a valid concern. The list of freshmen who are great two way players is tiny and it's usually guys like big physical advantages like Chet Holmgren or Anthony Davis. The best realistic outcome is this year's Kentucky: Dillingham, Shepard, Wagner, and Edwards are all playing well offensively. Dillingham and Shepard are elite. Also, Kentucky is 102nd in defense.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Wow

Watch dylan and ace face in high school. Comapre that D to what you see in a B1G game. Not the same game

 

[bac2therac]

Watch dylan and ace face in high school. Comapre that D to what you see in a B1G game. Not the same game

hey guess what...we dont need elite defense to be a 6 or 7 seed in the ncaa tourney,

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

hey guess what...we dont need elite defense to be a 6 or 7 seed in the ncaa tourney,

We dont. We have a coach that is a defensive coach though.

 

[bac2therac]

We dont. We have a coach that is a defensive coach though.

had

 

[Scarlet Shack]

We have a defensive minded coaxn

It’s going up to pike ro sell the frosh class of 2014, lead by dykan and airous , that they need to show a complete game, on both ends of the floor , if they want to go high in the nba lottery

Buy in next year , including defense , strength and conditioning , and playing as a unit , is critical for a young team to come together for a serious March run

Can I suggest thsr pike take their ohine in September :)

 

[G- RUnit]

Hoping for 4 or 5! ;-). Too optimistic?

 

[MCKnight2004]

People who want a home cupcake schedule do not understand how the tournament works with bids and seeding. In order to get to Brooklyn as a protected top 4 seed, RU has to finish in the top 15-20 in NET METRICS including non conference schedule strength, road and neutral win/loss Are also factors. There is zero value in quad 4 games. Yes, play 4 or 5 of them but that’s enough.

Look at how Michigan State is still firmly in tourney right now at 14-8 6-5 In big ten, their strong metrics and non conference schedule where they only won 2 games in many Q1 opportunities. (Baylor, and Indiana St). Another 2 wins there and their seed line improves greatly

swings and miss are ok in non conf as long as you’re swinging you get credit

 

[fluoxetine]

In order to get to Brooklyn as a protected top 4 seed, RU has to finish in the top 15-20 in ... non conference schedule strength

This is just completely false.

Last year UConn got a 4 seed with NCSOS of 208
KState got a 3 seed with NCSOS of 256
Indiana got a 4 seed with a NCSOS of 266 (and 12 losses)

In 2022 Gonzaga got a 1 seed with NCSOS of 248
Baylor got a 1 seed with NCSOS of 216
Kentucky got a 2 seed with NCSOS of 242
Texas Tech got a 3 seed with NCSOS of 347 (and 10 losses)
Duke got a 2 seed with NCSOS of 288
Purdue got a 3 seed with NCSOS of 261
Arkansas got a 4 seed with NCSOS of 245

I was going to go back farther but I think I've already made my point.

 

[NickRU714]

People who want a home cupcake schedule do not understand how the tournament works with bids and seeding. In order to get to Brooklyn as a protected top 4 seed, RU has to finish in the top 15-20 in NET METRICS including non conference schedule strength, road and neutral win/loss Are also factors. There is zero value in quad 4 games. Yes, play 4 or 5 of them but that’s enough.

Look at how Michigan State is still firmly in tourney right now at 14-8 6-5 In big ten, their strong metrics and non conference schedule where they only won 2 games in many Q1 opportunities. (Baylor, and Indiana St). Another 2 wins there and their seed line improves greatly

swings and miss are ok in non conf as long as you’re swinging you get credit

Is MSU in contention for a Top 4 seed?
They seem to show evidence that playing and losing OOC isn't getting you into the Top 15-20 NET Metrics.

Nobody is saying beating Duke won't significantly help.
The problem is that we are already losing with a weak OOC.
We are already swinging and missing.
So the solution is to lose to better teams?

Losing to Duke/Arizona instead of losing to Mississippi State/Wake Forest gets us from out of the tournament to a Top 4 seed?
Is that the math some of us aren't understanding?

Where does winning more games factor into making the tournament not as a last 4 in?

 

[Nycrusupporter]

This is just completely false.

Last year UConn got a 4 seed with NCSOS of 208
KState got a 3 seed with NCSOS of 256
Indiana got a 4 seed with a NCSOS of 266 (and 12 losses)

In 2022 Gonzaga got a 1 seed with NCSOS of 248
Baylor got a 1 seed with NCSOS of 216
Kentucky got a 2 seed with NCSOS of 242
Texas Tech got a 3 seed with NCSOS of 347 (and 10 losses)
Duke got a 2 seed with NCSOS of 288
Purdue got a 3 seed with NCSOS of 261
Arkansas got a 4 seed with NCSOS of 245

I was going to go back farther but I think I've already made my point.

Yes, if your point was that if you win 28-30 games you are assured a high seed . . .

 

[G- RUnit]

Please stop with the weak OOC if you are not going to acknowledge we play 20 games in the B1G. Our overall strength of schedule is perfectly fine. This year we are 35. We simply do not have that many out of conference games. And Princeton, Wake, SHU, Miss State, was perfectly fine. May want an upgrade over Stonehill. Go back to playing locals, St. Petes, Monmouth, Delaware, Rider, FDU, NJIT, Lafayette/Lehigh. Don’t mind Temple.

 

[fluoxetine]

Yes, if your point was that if you win 28-30 games you are assured a high seed . . .

That.. is kind of my point? You can get a high seed against most any schedule if you play well against it.