SG/SF
- Thread starter zebnatto
- Start date
You’re spot on. It’s why most modern analysts don’t talk about those positions and just refer to those players as “wings.” The idea is to be more interchangeable in those spots so you can switch on defense and ideally shoot from both spots on offense.
It also makes the arguing about whether Mathis/Issa are better suited to the 2 or 3 pretty silly IMO.
It also makes the arguing about whether Mathis/Issa are better suited to the 2 or 3 pretty silly IMO.
Every team in the country plays at least 3, if not 4 players on the perimeter. Skill sets vary by the player, not some named position.
2 vs 3 offensively may be very similar but defensive responsibilities can be different, ie guarding a forward FSU a guard, where they play in a 2/3 zone etc.
I've really thought of it more like "three guards / two bigs" - though that's also somewhat reductionist, because it's frequently situational and based on matchups. I doubt Pikiell/staff have rigid definitions of any of the positions, and see it much more fluid in terms of what they're trying to accomplish on offense/defense.
That "wing" player or "small forward" or whatever you want to call it usually needs to be able to guard a forward, though, defensively. So that normally means a bigger guard, 6-5 or better.
In our offense, we really have had two guys who have played that position the last two years - Thiam and Williams. Thiam isn't a great ball handler, so has mostly played off the ball looking for catch-and-shoot opportunities (though he's started to expand his repertoire a bit). Williams handled the ball more, but when he was the third guard on the court he was frequently found crashing the boards and looking for offensive putbacks among the trees.
Adding Mathis and Kiss next year will mix things up. Mathis is 6-4 and Kiss is 6-5 - so they both have the height to guard wing players - but they're also both used to being the second guard in offenses, rather than the third. Will be interesting to see how Pikiell incorporates them.
That "wing" player or "small forward" or whatever you want to call it usually needs to be able to guard a forward, though, defensively. So that normally means a bigger guard, 6-5 or better.
In our offense, we really have had two guys who have played that position the last two years - Thiam and Williams. Thiam isn't a great ball handler, so has mostly played off the ball looking for catch-and-shoot opportunities (though he's started to expand his repertoire a bit). Williams handled the ball more, but when he was the third guard on the court he was frequently found crashing the boards and looking for offensive putbacks among the trees.
Adding Mathis and Kiss next year will mix things up. Mathis is 6-4 and Kiss is 6-5 - so they both have the height to guard wing players - but they're also both used to being the second guard in offenses, rather than the third. Will be interesting to see how Pikiell incorporates them.
Yeah, obviously depending on the type of zone you play you’ll want different skill sets at different positions. But when people discuss a SF vs a SG, I think they are thinking offensive end.
Defensively, body type is also important—muscle vs length.
Defensively, body type is also important—muscle vs length.
This is a good post
From what I see, on what Coach P runs, the shooting guard tends to play much higher up, not in the corner line..and the small forward tends to play in the 45 degrees to the left and right of the basket and never is on top...
The small forward driving opportunities clearly are more along the baseline where as the shooting guard gets it from on top...and tends to get more ball screen looks
From what I see, on what Coach P runs, the shooting guard tends to play much higher up, not in the corner line..and the small forward tends to play in the 45 degrees to the left and right of the basket and never is on top...
The small forward driving opportunities clearly are more along the baseline where as the shooting guard gets it from on top...and tends to get more ball screen looks
IMO, you are who you guard when you are defending. That can vary based on matchups with different teams, but in general your defensive capabilities define who you are.
Meaning if you're 6-3 and can't guard their 6-6 guy in the post, you're not a SF.
The "small forward" or "swing forward" or "wing" or whatever is largely a hybrid position, where you need to be flexible enough to guard guys looking to post you up and guys looking to drive the lane or step out for threes. Usually SGs don't have bodies to bang down low like that, while PFs don't have the foot speed to stay in front of penetrating guards - SFs give a bit of both.
It's also a position that sometimes lends itself to "3 and D" specialists.... stingy defense, then camping out for threes - but not really the primary ball movers or scoring options.
I get it. But then you’re largely making the distinction based upon defensive roles, correct?
It's a mix. There is no one definition of a wing or SF - but it's traditionally more of a hybrid position between a guard and a big. Usually a bit bigger than a PG/SG, but a bit smaller than a PF... expected to defend the post and the perimeter... expected to be a strong rebounder.
Sometimes the wing is the primary scoring threat, and sometimes it's secondary or tertiary. Sometimes they're meant to space the floor and provide a range threat (Thiam) and other times they're meant to be more of an offensive rebounder/slasher (Dane Miller).
You don't always need one, either - as you can go with three 1/2 combo guards, or a 1 and two true SGs, or whatever. But when talking about that position, it's typically that hybrid type role.
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