Pike’s ceiling?

[SirScarlet]

Honeymoon over after this season

Recruiting was subpar and thats why this team is what it is

I don't agree. If we don't lose Cam and Paul at the time that we did I think this team is competing for another bid. Now that does not excuse Pike for not evolving on offense. That's all on him. But hard to say that we are where we are because of recruiting. It's a factor. But the prime reason is losing two of our key players before we expected to lose them

 

[sct1111]

He's 33-32 the last four years vs B1G comp, all with his own recruited players.

The big ten has been the deepest/best conference for years. An average big ten team over that span is a good team.

 

[Scarlet Blind]

Facts
Noah is brought in to replace Jalen Miller
The transfer portal closed May 12th
Cam enters the Portal May 19th, grad transfer
Paul enters the Portal June 9th, grad transfer
Both leave for 💰💰.
We scrambled to sort through what's left in the portal after it closed

Exactly how does that affect how Pike coaches or recruits?? Ceiling or floor?
Nothing, nada, zero, zilch, nunca.

We have 4 guards that have played exactly 16 games together, Derek the only one with an extra year under Pike that Pike trusts. College basketball was, is and always will be a guards driven game. The inexperience of our 4 guards playing together and being on different pages at times during the wrong stretches in games is our biggest weakness in 23-24.

 

[RUBlackout]

Don’t think it’s guaranteed that we are good next year either. We will have an infusion of talent but the B1G has really good players and coaches. It’s also freshman versus upperclassman

 

[ancienthooper]

Reading these threads/posts makes it embarrassing to claim ownership of being a Rutgers fan.

 

[RUskoolie]

Some of you really deserve the Eddie Jordan years again.

 

[chiphi80]

How fickle is this board. Holy crap, you guys go from one extreme to another. Tough start to the season. Let's see what he can get done and get set up for next season.

 

[Local Shill]

This year’s team wasn’t going to be very good.

I still don’t understand how anyone watched last year’s NIT team, saw us lose our best scorer, best defender, and a senior guard and replace them with a 5’8 mid-major guard and a handful of okay players, and thought we’d improve.

Next year is the year.

I didn't think we'd be better but some shills tried to sell us on the notion.

 

[NickRU714]

Don’t think it’s guaranteed that we are good next year either. We will have an infusion of talent but the B1G has really good players and coaches. It’s also freshman versus upperclassman

It'll be interesting the justifications if next year's team isn't extremely successful.

Imagine Indiana brought in our class?
Or Michigan?
Some would likely call it an immense failure if they didn't make the Final Four.

Hopefully we won't have to worry about that though and the team is great.

 

[RutgersChow]

Don’t think it’s guaranteed that we are good next year either. We will have an infusion of talent but the B1G has really good players and coaches. It’s also freshman versus upperclassman

We'll be good talent alone. Question is, is the staff good enough to make us great?

 

[RutgersChow]

The big ten has been the deepest/best conference for years. An average big ten team over that span is a good team.

So your goal then is to be an average B1G team - that makes us good? I want more, a lot more. And the B1G hasn't been the deepest/best conference for years. They were the third best conference last year, at best.

 

[RexMantlepiece]

One of the best coaches we ever had that got us to multiple tournaments , compete season sell outs, best ever recruiting who loves RU and is a great representative of our school and you aholes act like he should leave?? Bandwagon fans who cry after losses suck. And you guys do it time and time again. F you really suck.

Yasss to this ^^^^^^^^

 

[KK1827]

expectations are he has to win RIGHT AWAY next season. These are one and done players, you dont bring them in to finish 7th and get a 10 seed in the ncaa tourney and bow out in first round

so Pike wanted to do this dance with one and dones and its up to him to produce plain and simple

Thats the precarious spot hes in. Hes never really had a freshman that was a “dude”. Now hes gonna have a bunch in program that lacks an offensive structure which is going to make things even tougher on a freshman.

He really runs the risk of being exposed next year as a guy who provides a solid floor but a very very low ceiling. And yes, I know ive been yelled at for years for that line but its true

 

[RutgersChow]

F you. You still blow-- big baby after losses. Never change. Everything is great after a win but dire after a loss. Don't give me this discussion crap -- just crybabies when we lose.

He is certainly one of the more knowledgable posters here.

 

[KK1827]

The big ten has been the deepest/best conference for years. An average big ten team over that span is a good team.

False narrative. Big ten has been a whole lott mehhhhh for decades.

 

[RU Mike73]

Interesting thread. Virtually every player that matters has been identified as the reason(s) we are playing like sh!t. Sad that we have so many candidates for that honor.

 

[Scangg]

Interesting thread. Virtually every player that matters has been identified as the reason(s) we are playing like sh!t. Sad that we have so many candidates for that honor.

Mag Hyatt and I guess Davis and Oskar are the players at least meeting expectations. Davis was a low rated freshman and Oskar a deep bench piece so expectations there are low. Oskar not shooting the 3 as he could. Davis making some freshman mistakes but showing signs of promise

Noah Gavin Cliff Simpson having disappointing seasons. Noah and Gavin would get a near unanimous F from the entire board so far this season. They have been worse than anyone could have imagined unfortunately. Cliff and Simpson having poor seasons but not to that level

 

[goru7]

i am saying if he is going to bring in #2 and #3 he will have to win at a significantly high level right away

He will but why your last sentence

Thats the precarious spot hes in. Hes never really had a freshman that was a “dude”. Now hes gonna have a bunch in program that lacks an offensive structure which is going to make things even tougher on a freshman.

He really runs the risk of being exposed next year as a guy who provides a solid floor but a very very low ceiling. And yes, I know ive been yelled at for years for that line but its true

There you go with your comically ridiculous statements. Do Kentucky and Duke with their top 5 or higher classes not show up in the top of the rankings every year. Maybe they don’t win the championship but they are a contender. You truly think with the talent that is coming in , that has never ever graced the Banks in 1 class before , is going to shit the bed and you think Pike will be not up to the task. Now we have supposedly the # 3 class in the entire country , and you want to shit on Pike . I guess your narrative for years was he couldn’t recruit. Well that stupidity of yours has Pike bringing in a FAB 5 and being mentioned with Duke and Kentucky , blue bloods , that no Rutgers fan ever thought we would be so mentioned. He is also recruiting 4 and 5 stars for 2025 when Dylan and Ace go pro. Your ability to question Pike when we are about to explode is just typically you. Low ceiling my ass. Cannot wait to shit on you

 

[KK1827]

He will but why your last sentence

There you go with your comically ridiculous statements. Do Kentucky and Duke with their top 5 or higher classes not show up in the top of the rankings every year. Maybe they don’t win the championship but they are a contender. You truly think with the talent that is coming in , that has never ever graced the Banks in 1 class before , is going to shit the bed and you think Pike will be not up to the task. Now we have supposedly the # 3 class in the entire country , and you want to shit on Pike . I guess your narrative for years was he couldn’t recruit. Well that stupidity of yours has Pike bringing in a FAB 5 and being mentioned with Duke and Kentucky , blue bloods , that no Rutgers fan ever thought we would be so mentioned. He is also recruiting 4 and 5 stars for 2025 when Dylan and Ace go pro. Your ability to question Pike when we are about to explode is just typically you. Low ceiling my ass. Cannot wait to shit on you

I think we went over this but pikes first 8 recruiting clases average rank amongst big ten teams was 12th best.

He was not a good recruiter. He has an elite 2024 class, but is it his recruiting abilities or hi$ recruiting abilitie$?

Anyway, I dont know why people get so offended when I say hes a great man, great defensive coach but a bad offensive coach. Unfortunately offense is what modern day basketball is about.

Im thankful for him, he took us from unwatchable to watchable. But i am skeptical of how he’ll do next season with all that talent.

1) Do we still continue to not have an offensive structure?
2) how does he get frosh up to speed to be THE guys from day 1? Hes never done this before.
3) how will fans react if we arent a top 25 team and at worst a 5 seed?
4) how will fans react if we dont get out of the first weekend?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

expectations are he has to win RIGHT AWAY next season. These are one and done players, you dont bring them in to finish 7th and get a 10 seed in the ncaa tourney and bow out in first round

so Pike wanted to do this dance with one and dones and its up to him to produce plain and simple

is Pike going to change overnight?

 

[RU-ROCS]

This season has mostly, thus far, been quite disappointing. A 19-0 run turned this game.

No one can question Pikes positive impact in resurrecting our program, and establishing a defensive identity. Teams plays hard.

Clearly and significantly raised the floor.

But I think we can question if the lack of consistent or dynamic offense is limiting the potential and ceiling. It is not just this season but seems more pronounced now, and with struggles of multiple guys. We got higher caliber recruits known as shooters and don’t see it. Out ceiling may be as first weekend team.

I think we have to see how rest of season and next year goes to see where, if any, there may be issues on offense.

I love Pike and he thankfully isn’t going anywhere, nor should he. He is the right man for the job. But the fact that he said several times in the preseason and early season that this team is built to score in the 80’s each game is mind Boggling! If he said that in a prospectus the SEC would sue him for fraud.

 

[rubjk]

It'll be interesting the justifications if next year's team isn't extremely successful.

Imagine Indiana brought in our class?
Or Michigan?
Some would likely call it an immense failure if they didn't make the Final Four.

Hopefully we won't have to worry about that though and the team is great.

Michigan had 2 top draft picks and a ton of talent last year and we beat them with 1/3 the talent and they did nothing last year. Coaching does matter.

 

[RuBird]

Pike able to bring in Ace, Harper, Somerville, etc etc…..

He is my coach

 

[fatsam98]

Some of the posts in this thread are embarrassing.

I will say though, Pike doesn't help himself out when he says things like "this team can really shoot the basketball" all off-season.

 

[bethlehemfan]

I think we went over this but pikes first 8 recruiting clases average rank amongst big ten teams was 12th best.

He was not a good recruiter. He has an elite 2024 class, but is it his recruiting abilities or hi$ recruiting abilitie$?

Anyway, I dont know why people get so offended when I say hes a great man, great defensive coach but a bad offensive coach. Unfortunately offense is what modern day basketball is about.

Im thankful for him, he took us from unwatchable to watchable. But i am skeptical of how he’ll do next season with all that talent.

1) Do we still continue to not have an offensive structure?
2) how does he get frosh up to speed to be THE guys from day 1? Hes never done this before.
3) how will fans react if we arent a top 25 team and at worst a 5 seed?
4) how will fans react if we dont get out of the first weekend?

I would be surprised if we are a top 25 team next year. Blending all these young players into an effective unit against grown men in the first year is going to be a heck of a challenge. People with crazy expectations should look around a little.

 

[The RUT]

He did a poor job managing his roster IMO.

We are about to find out what his ceiling is next season.

My biggest complaint is how long it takes him to figure out who needs to play where/when. Seems like every season he doesn’t figure out the proper lineups until we hit like 5 games into conference play.

Also, he needs to have a base offense that runs sets to get open guys. Want to run an iso offense? That’s fine but 1 out of every 3 positions I need to see off ball movement and picks happening. Go watch pre-Pike games on YouTube and you’ll be shocked how much cleaner the offense looked.

Mike Rice was a lunatic, but he was a better coach than Pike IMO

 

[RUich]

Having an elite defense is great, but you still need to outscore the team you are holding back from their usual numbers. No doubt the losses of some top players have really hurt this team and the fact that they waited so long to depart really put Pike in a tough place to find replacements.
That said, the guys we do have just are not that good. Tired of hearing otherwise. Pike's pre-season talk of being a fast team have not happened. We get down to the other end of the court and just run around and then take a last minute three and give it back to the other team. As for being an 80 point team, it would take us about another 30 minutes of play to get there!
Next year's team in supposed to be real scorers. Can Pike coach a team that will probably not be as good defensively? With the way things are going now, we can only hope we find a few complimentary players for next season.

 

[bac2therac]

I would be surprised if we are a top 25 team next year. Blending all these young players into an effective unit against grown men in the first year is going to be a heck of a challenge. People with crazy expectations should look around a little.

and a tougher schedule likely too. As good as Ace and Dylan are, you have to learn to win in college hoops so I expect some bumps early on. Again I have seen better coaches than Pike struggle to get footing with top recruiting classes. Its not automatic

 

[bac2therac]

Some of the posts in this thread are embarrassing.

I will say though, Pike doesn't help himself out when he says things like "this team can really shoot the basketball" all off-season.

plus the beat writers and people around the program, mods, guest commentators blow the team up as better than they are.

 

[bac2therac]

is Pike going to change overnight?

no and that is why I have concern a bit for next year while being excited too

 

[KK1827]

I would be surprised if we are a top 25 team next year. Blending all these young players into an effective unit against grown men in the first year is going to be a heck of a challenge. People with crazy expectations should look around a little.

I tend to agree but the hype train is here. Indiana always brings in these top 10 frosh’s and are basically like bubble teams. Our fan bases expectations are through the roof next year to the point I believe anything short of a sweet 16 and people will actually call for pikes head, warranted or not. @bac2therac is that the vibe you feel amongst the fan base too?

 

[wheezer]

expectations are he has to win RIGHT AWAY next season. These are one and done players, you dont bring them in to finish 7th and get a 10 seed in the ncaa tourney and bow out in first round

so Pike wanted to do this dance with one and dones and its up to him to produce plain and simple

Back filling is the hidden key here for the longer term

Sommerville, Grant, and Dortch have to wind up big ten quality, with added talent to that thereafter, and our two young guards have to progress

 

[bac2therac]

I tend to agree but the hype train is here. Indiana always brings in these top 10 frosh’s and are basically like bubble teams. Our fan bases expectations are through the roof next year to the point I believe anything short of a sweet 16 and people will actually call for pikes head, warranted or not. @bac2therac is that the vibe you feel amongst the fan base too?

I think there will always be a segment that calls for head if we dont win at a super high level....HOWEVER, I think most reasonable fans feel making the NCAA tournament is going to be enough. Anything less would be a disappointment, no Pikes job should not be in jeopardy but I think a failure to make the tourney and criticism thrown is way.

Things can happen in the ncaa tourney, look at one seed Virginia so I do not think its fair to set bars on what has to happen there. I think getting back to the NCAA tourney is important. To me it might be more important to show the program can get there with a 22-10 type season being a 7 seed rather than being the bubble team every year we have been under Pikiell. That is the step forward the program NEEDS to take.

 

[wheezer]

Don’t think it’s guaranteed that we are good next year either. We will have an infusion of talent but the B1G has really good players and coaches. It’s also freshman versus upperclassman

So balance becomes a key... We need others beside our two superstars to be scoring threats

 

[RUBlackout]

Having an elite defense is great, but you still need to outscore the team you are holding back from their usual numbers. No doubt the losses of some top players have really hurt this team and the fact that they waited so long to depart really put Pike in a tough place to find replacements.
That said, the guys we do have just are not that good. Tired of hearing otherwise. Pike's pre-season talk of being a fast team have not happened. We get down to the other end of the court and just run around and then take a last minute three and give it back to the other team. As for being an 80 point team, it would take us about another 30 minutes of play to get there!
Next year's team in supposed to be real scorers. Can Pike coach a team that will probably not be as good defensively? With the way things are going now, we can only hope we find a few complimentary players for next season.

Based on analytics we are fast

Issue is we play out of control, bad shot selection, and inefficient in FG%

 

[fluoxetine]

I think there will always be a segment that calls for head if we dont win at a super high level....HOWEVER, I think most reasonable fans feel making the NCAA tournament is going to be enough. Anything less would be a disappointment, no Pikes job should not be in jeopardy but I think a failure to make the tourney and criticism thrown is way.

Things can happen in the ncaa tourney, look at one seed Virginia so I do not think its fair to set bars on what has to happen there. I think getting back to the NCAA tourney is important. To me it might be more important to show the program can get there with a 22-10 type season being a 7 seed rather than being the bubble team every year we have been under Pikiell. That is the step forward the program NEEDS to take.

Glad to see you post this, agree completely. Having a good season is much more important than hyperfocusing on the result of a couple games in March.

 

[Shell21]

against michigan state we actually ran some decent stuff including a continuity set that we see in high school a lot with diagonal back screens and screen the screener action. We actually got some layups and looks off of it too. First time i’ve seen us run anything like that. We also had some other good action that we either got decent looks and missed or michigan state finally started to snuff out and our players aren’t good enough to create with limited space.

Hopefully we can continue some of this for the rest of the year.

 

[Eagleton96]

This season has mostly, thus far, been quite disappointing. A 19-0 run turned this game.

No one can question Pikes positive impact in resurrecting our program, and establishing a defensive identity. Teams plays hard.

Clearly and significantly raised the floor.

But I think we can question if the lack of consistent or dynamic offense is limiting the potential and ceiling. It is not just this season but seems more pronounced now, and with struggles of multiple guys. We got higher caliber recruits known as shooters and don’t see it. Out ceiling may be as first weekend team.

I think we have to see how rest of season and next year goes to see where, if any, there may be issues on offense.

Nah. Pike has never had enough offensive skill on the team. The schemes consistently generate decent looks that we just don’t have the players to make.

 

[KK1827]

I think there will always be a segment that calls for head if we dont win at a super high level....HOWEVER, I think most reasonable fans feel making the NCAA tournament is going to be enough. Anything less would be a disappointment, no Pikes job should not be in jeopardy but I think a failure to make the tourney and criticism thrown is way.

Things can happen in the ncaa tourney, look at one seed Virginia so I do not think its fair to set bars on what has to happen there. I think getting back to the NCAA tourney is important. To me it might be more important to show the program can get there with a 22-10 type season being a 7 seed rather than being the bubble team every year we have been under Pikiell. That is the step forward the program NEEDS to take.

I think merely just making the tourney again in 2025 isnt gonna be enough for fans. I think if anything it’ll cement the idea that he has a high floor, low ceiling if he merely just gets to the tourney as a 7-11 seed with 2 lottery picks

 

[Scarlet Blind]

SBNation lists top 11 recruiting classes of the 2010s(max games are 40)

What they did the year before the class and with the class.
11) 2017 Texas Tech from 18-14(32) to 27-10(37)
10) 2016 Gonzaga from 28-8(36) to 37-2(39)
9) 2012 Michigan from 24-10(34) to 31-8(39)
8) 2015 Villanova from 33-3(36) to 35-5(40)
7) 2018 Duke from 29-8(37) to 32-6(38)
6) 2013 Kansas from 31-6(37) to 25-10(35)
5) 2014 UNC from 24-10(34) to 26-12(38)
4) 2016 Virginia from 29-8(37) to 23-11(34)
3) 2011 Kentucky from 29-9(38) to 38-2(40)
2) 2014 Kentucky from 29-11(40) to 38-1(39)
1) 2014 Duke 26-9(35) to 35-4(39)

I'm not saying we have a top 10 or top 20 in the 2020s, but just what classes like ours have done historically before and after as a record stand point.