Significant college trends

[retired711]

Today's Axios news letter summarizes some recent stories about trends in college applications. While none of it is Rutgers-specific, many of the items can be expected to affect Rutgers: For any who don't know, HBCUs are historically black colleges and universities.

Several trends are colliding to change what colleges are offering, and how they interact with students: Enrollment is down, longstanding traditions are crumbling and applicant pools are changing dramatically. Why it matters: We're starting to see how higher education will emerge from the dizzying disruption of the pandemic, Axios' Erin Doherty and Erica Pandey write. What's happening: The total number of undergraduate students in the U.S. dropped by nearly 10% during the pandemic, PBS NewsHour reports. The number of colleges closing over the last 10 years quadrupled compared with the prior decade, per The Wall Street Journal (subscription). State of play: The demographics of college students have also shifted. Underrepresented minority applicants increased by 32% and first-generation applications jumped 43% from 2019 to 2020, per Common App data out last month. Hispanic enrollment at four-year institutions is up a whopping 287% between 2000 and 2020, reaching an all-time high, according to Pew Research Center. Women are outnumbering men in higher education. There are about 130 women for every 100 men at four-year colleges, and the gap is even wider at two-year institutions, the St. Louis Fed notes. What to watch: One group of institutions bucking the dropping enrollment trend are HBCUs. Applications to top-tier HBCUs jumped as much as 30% between 2018 and 2021, per PBS NewsHour.

 

[e5fdny]

Maybe this why Rutgers has finally decided to accept/use the Common App format going forward.

 

[bigmatt718]

Are there any data for grad school application rates post-Covid?

 

[NotInRHouse]

These seem to be all things that would be good for RU. Also, enrollment and applications are up at RU.

 

[retired711]

These seem to be all things that would be good for RU. Also, enrollment and applications are up at RU.

Applications being up is a good thing. Enrollment being up may or may not be-- it depends on whether we're getting to the point of overcrowding and of students not being able to get the courses they want and need. The New Brunswick/Piscataway campus is thought by the administration to be at the bursting point, but that doesn't stop them from admitting more students. More students, after all, mean more money.

 

[e5fdny]

Applications being up is a good thing. Enrollment being up may or may not be-- it depends on whether we're getting to the point of overcrowding and of students not being able to get the courses they want and need. The New Brunswick/Piscataway campus is thought by the administration to be at the bursting point, but that doesn't stop them from admitting more students. More students, after all, mean more money.

Exactly.

B1Gger is better but just being bigger, not so much.

 

[Sir ScarletKnight]

Applications being up is a good thing. Enrollment being up may or may not be-- it depends on whether we're getting to the point of overcrowding and of students not being able to get the courses they want and need. The New Brunswick/Piscataway campus is thought by the administration to be at the bursting point, but that doesn't stop them from admitting more students. More students, after all, mean more money.

I don't see RU dramatically expanding enrollment until the end of the decade, barring a major building spree. That said, the school has begun moving more into the city of New Brunswick, taking advantage of buildings in the city to expand without large building costs and open up space on campus for other offices. Social Work, SAS, Foundation, etc. have all moved into downtown spaces off campus. I wouldn't be surprised to see many of the old houses on campus demolished\refurbed as the next step once the college ave campus core has been redone, but after speaking to some admins, that seems more complicated than originally thought.

Rutgers upcoming building for the decade, in my mind:
Imminent:
- New Medical School
- Cook residences
- New Engineering building

Short term goal:
- College Ave Core
- New Livi academic buildings

The school actually has plenty of space to expand, it's just a question of budget and how much needs to go to keeping older buildings up to modern standards vs. tearing them down and replacing them. RU has a lot of aging 70s buildings that need to have decisions made.

RE: Overall trends:
The college landscape ten years from now will look very different.

 

[retired711]

I don't see RU dramatically expanding enrollment until the end of the decade, barring a major building spree. That said, the school has begun moving more into the city of New Brunswick, taking advantage of buildings in the city to expand without large building costs and open up space on campus for other offices. Social Work, SAS, Foundation, etc. have all moved into downtown spaces off campus. I wouldn't be surprised to see many of the old houses on campus demolished\refurbed as the next step once the college ave campus core has been redone, but after speaking to some admins, that seems more complicated than originally thought.

Rutgers upcoming building for the decade, in my mind:
Imminent:
- New Medical School
- Cook residences
- New Engineering building

Short term goal:
- College Ave Core
- New Livi academic buildings

The school actually has plenty of space to expand, it's just a question of budget and how much needs to go to keeping older buildings up to modern standards vs. tearing them down and replacing them. RU has a lot of aging 70s buildings that need to have decisions made.

RE: Overall trends:
The college landscape ten years from now will look very different.

Thanks for the rundown. It's not entirely a question of space. It's also a question of traffic: commuting to Rutgers is hard for faculty and staff. It's also a matter of housing for students, off-campus as well as on-campus. If other college towns are an indication, Rutgers is sooner or later going to run into resistance to moving into New Brunswick and into expansions in enrollment that increase rents.

Dorms are the easiest things to build because they can be financed with revenue bonds for which voter approval is not needed. Everything else is harder. At some point, there will need to be another bond issue to pay for buildings -- we'll see if that's politically possible.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Applications being up is a good thing. Enrollment being up may or may not be-- it depends on whether we're getting to the point of overcrowding and of students not being able to get the courses they want and need. The New Brunswick/Piscataway campus is thought by the administration to be at the bursting point, but that doesn't stop them from admitting more students. More students, after all, mean more money.

Bursting how so?

I know as part of the last budget RU got a lot of $$ to build. Is it a class size question? Dorm capacity?

RU has a ridiculous amount of land to build on, though much of it is away from College Ave.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Exactly.

B1Gger is better but just being bigger, not so much.

I would normally have trepidation about student quality but I believe the average SAT is around 1370 and we're now tied with Maryland for top ranked public in the NE in USNWR...so they're doing something right.

The Great Recession caused a lot of families who may not have otherwise to give RU a second look. Maybe COVID is having the same effect? Combined with other things inuring in RU's favor: B1G affiliation, non-football sports impressing nationally, demographics in NJ favoring RU, the cost of OOS schools spiraling, campus generally getting nicer...

 

[SF88]

I don't see RU dramatically expanding enrollment until the end of the decade, barring a major building spree. That said, the school has begun moving more into the city of New Brunswick, taking advantage of buildings in the city to expand without large building costs and open up space on campus for other offices. Social Work, SAS, Foundation, etc. have all moved into downtown spaces off campus. I wouldn't be surprised to see many of the old houses on campus demolished\refurbed as the next step once the college ave campus core has been redone, but after speaking to some admins, that seems more complicated than originally thought.

Rutgers upcoming building for the decade, in my mind:
Imminent:
- New Medical School
- Cook residences
- New Engineering building

Short term goal:
- College Ave Core
- New Livi academic buildings

The school actually has plenty of space to expand, it's just a question of budget and how much needs to go to keeping older buildings up to modern standards vs. tearing them down and replacing them. RU has a lot of aging 70s buildings that need to have decisions made.

RE: Overall trends:
The college landscape ten years from now will look very different.

Any idea what the plan is for Ford Hall? It's been sitting vacant for years now. It's in a centerpiece position on College Ave. What is the status of the CA Core? With Records Hall down, what is the next step? My assumption is a new dining hall first, then demolition of Brower and Stonier. After that Hardenberg to create the bus depot/hub. At that point more housing is needed on CA. So many of the little houses along CA are old, run down and an inefficient use of space

 

[bigmatt718]

I would normally have trepidation about student quality but I believe the average SAT is around 1370 and we're now tied with Maryland for top ranked public in the NE in USNWR...so they're doing something right.

The Great Recession caused a lot of families who may not have otherwise to give RU a second look. Maybe COVID is having the same effect? Combined with other things inuring in RU's favor: B1G affiliation, non-football sports impressing nationally, demographics in NJ favoring RU, the cost of OOS schools spiraling, campus generally getting nicer...

B1G affiliation definitely has helped strengthen RU academically. Being aligned with schools like PSU, Michigan, Maryland, and NW help us more than our BE/AAC days of being aligned with Temple and random Catholics who we have nothing in common with academically.

 

[bigmatt718]

Any idea what the plan is for Ford Hall? It's been sitting vacant for years now. It's in a centerpiece position on College Ave. What is the status of the CA Core? With Records Hall down, what is the next step? My assumption is a new dining hall first, then demolition of Brower and Stonier. After that Hardenberg to create the bus depot/hub. At that point more housing is needed on CA. So many of the little houses along CA are old, run down and an inefficient use of space

I wouldn't be shocked if RU starts buying up properties in NB adjacent to CA campus that aren't Greek affiliated and are derelict and just an eyesore. Turn those into apartments.

 

[retired711]

Bursting how so?

I know as part of the last budget RU got a lot of $$ to build. Is it a class size question? Dorm capacity?

RU has a ridiculous amount of land to build on, though much of it is away from College Ave.

The budget gave Rutgers $300 million -- $100 million for the RAC and to begin the development of a football practice facility, $150 million for medical school buildings, and $50 million for the New Jersey Innovation and Technology Hub in New Brunswick. I don't know where the medical school buildings are supposed to be. https://civmetrics.com/uncategorize...on-for-new-infrastructure-projects-nj-budget/

Both factors you cite are important. Another, as I mentioned elsewhere, is the sense that traffic has become intolerably congested. But I suspect that enrollments at New Brunswick will continue to grow as long as student quality keeps increasing.

 

[Sir ScarletKnight]

Any idea what the plan is for Ford Hall? It's been sitting vacant for years now. It's in a centerpiece position on College Ave. What is the status of the CA Core? With Records Hall down, what is the next step? My assumption is a new dining hall first, then demolition of Brower and Stonier. After that Hardenberg to create the bus depot/hub. At that point more housing is needed on CA. So many of the little houses along CA are old, run down and an inefficient use of space

No idea what the plan is for Ford Hall; it's a hard building to work with because of the structure. Essentially three separate buildings in one roof, and it needs a lot of work to come up to code.

RE: CA core, the electrical grid there is a mess and will need serious reconstruction before it's ready for building. Once it's ready, it'll come down to budget, covid threw a lot of that into mayhem and they're still sorting out priorities.

The budget gave Rutgers $300 million -- $100 million for the RAC and to begin the development of a football practice facility, $150 million for medical school buildings, and $50 million for the New Jersey Innovation and Technology Hub in New Brunswick. I don't know where the medical school buildings are supposed to be. https://civmetrics.com/uncategorize...on-for-new-infrastructure-projects-nj-budget/

Both factors you cite are important. Another, as I mentioned elsewhere, is the sense that traffic has become intolerably congested. But I suspect that enrollments at New Brunswick will continue to grow as long as student quality keeps increasing.

The new medical school is going to be great; I think the plan to attack traffic is twofold. One: more housing. Housing construction in NB for young professionals has exploded in the last decade, and as Hoboken\JC continue to rise in price, it's not hard to see the city being next in line for people who don't mind an extra half hour on the train. And the train is part two, they're investing in making NB easier to get into by mass transit. Both of those will help with traffic if people who are coming in either already live there or come by mass transit.

B1G affiliation definitely has helped strengthen RU academically. Being aligned with schools like PSU, Michigan, Maryland, and NW help us more than our BE/AAC days of being aligned with Temple and random Catholics who we have nothing in common with academically.

Being aligned with USC and UCLA is going to be yet another excellent shot in the arm for Rutgers' academic reputation. Mason Gross has to be salivating about the opportunity to get in front of LA more often.

I wouldn't be shocked if RU starts buying up properties in NB adjacent to CA campus that aren't Greek affiliated and are derelict and just an eyesore. Turn those into apartments.

I believe that's been in the plan for ages, but Rutgers doesn't really have a housing problem at the moment. We already have the largest res life program in the country, and plenty of land. Could Rutgers, long term, expand up to Easton as a full part of the campus? Sure. But that land is expensive, and Rutgers already has plenty of space\maintenance to do.

 

[bigmatt718]

No idea what the plan is for Ford Hall; it's a hard building to work with because of the structure. Essentially three separate buildings in one roof, and it needs a lot of work to come up to code.

RE: CA core, the electrical grid there is a mess and will need serious reconstruction before it's ready for building. Once it's ready, it'll come down to budget, covid threw a lot of that into mayhem and they're still sorting out priorities.

The new medical school is going to be great; I think the plan to attack traffic is twofold. One: more housing. Housing construction in NB for young professionals has exploded in the last decade, and as Hoboken\JC continue to rise in price, it's not hard to see the city being next in line for people who don't mind an extra half hour on the train. And the train is part two, they're investing in making NB easier to get into by mass transit. Both of those will help with traffic if people who are coming in either already live there or come by mass transit.


Being aligned with USC and UCLA is going to be yet another excellent shot in the arm for Rutgers' academic reputation. Mason Gross has to be salivating about the opportunity to get in front of LA more often.


I believe that's been in the plan for ages, but Rutgers doesn't really have a housing problem at the moment. We already have the largest res life program in the country, and plenty of land. Could Rutgers, long term, expand up to Easton as a full part of the campus? Sure. But that land is expensive, and Rutgers already has plenty of space\maintenance to do.

Imagine if the B1G adds Cal and Stanford for the Bay Area market. RU's STEM programs would kill to be able to align with Silicon Valley and the big tech companies of NorCal.

 

[e5fdny]

I would normally have trepidation about student quality but I believe the average SAT is around 1370 and we're now tied with Maryland for top ranked public in the NE in USNWR...so they're doing something right.

The Great Recession caused a lot of families who may not have otherwise to give RU a second look. Maybe COVID is having the same effect? Combined with other things inuring in RU's favor: B1G affiliation, non-football sports impressing nationally, demographics in NJ favoring RU, the cost of OOS schools spiraling, campus generally getting nicer...

All well and good but even if they are all smarter, if it’s too crowded that’s not a plus.

What is the residency requirement now, @Sir ScarletKnight?

Some schools have instituted a policy of having to live on campus until junior year now.

 

[retired711]

No idea what the plan is for Ford Hall; it's a hard building to work with because of the structure. Essentially three separate buildings in one roof, and it needs a lot of work to come up to code.

RE: CA core, the electrical grid there is a mess and will need serious reconstruction before it's ready for building. Once it's ready, it'll come down to budget, covid threw a lot of that into mayhem and they're still sorting out priorities.

The new medical school is going to be great; I think the plan to attack traffic is twofold. One: more housing. Housing construction in NB for young professionals has exploded in the last decade, and as Hoboken\JC continue to rise in price, it's not hard to see the city being next in line for people who don't mind an extra half hour on the train. And the train is part two, they're investing in making NB easier to get into by mass transit. Both of those will help with traffic if people who are coming in either already live there or come by mass transit.


Being aligned with USC and UCLA is going to be yet another excellent shot in the arm for Rutgers' academic reputation. Mason Gross has to be salivating about the opportunity to get in front of LA more often.


I believe that's been in the plan for ages, but Rutgers doesn't really have a housing problem at the moment. We already have the largest res life program in the country, and plenty of land. Could Rutgers, long term, expand up to Easton as a full part of the campus? Sure. But that land is expensive, and Rutgers already has plenty of space\maintenance to do.

Having housing that attracts young professionals is not necessarily good for students, whose budgets are usually tighter. More young professionals may mean gentrification, which means higher rents.

 

[Sir ScarletKnight]

Imagine if the B1G adds Cal and Stanford for the Bay Area market. RU's STEM programs would kill to be able to align with Silicon Valley and the big tech companies of NorCal.

Yep; the Big Ten is already the strongest academic conference and while football money talks at the conference level, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the conference presidents are privately lobbying for additional academic firepower. It helps the presidents push off athletic spending critics too. (Such as a recent article focusing on the Big Ten Cancer Research Consortium that highlighted Rutgers' involvement.)

All well and good but even if they are all smarter, if it’s too crowded that’s not a plus.

What is the residency requirement now, @Sir ScarletKnight?

Some schools have instituted a policy of having to live on campus until junior year now.

Rutgers has no residency requirement, but to this point has not had a problem housing any first year student that requests housing by the deadline.

Having housing that attracts young professionals is not necessarily good for students, whose budgets are usually tighter. More young professionals may mean gentrification, which means higher rents.

Eh. To this point, there's been a pretty marked divider between young professional housing and student housing. The only student focused housing in downtown is SoCam, which were student housing before the recent building boom. At least to my knowledge, it hasn't affected the various off-campus housing areas north of the train line.

 

[retired711]

Yep; the Big Ten is already the strongest academic conference and while football money talks at the conference level, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the conference presidents are privately lobbying for additional academic firepower. It helps the presidents push off athletic spending critics too. (Such as a recent article focusing on the Big Ten Cancer Research Consortium that highlighted Rutgers' involvement.)

Rutgers has no residency requirement, but to this point has not had a problem housing any first year student that requests housing by the deadline.

Eh. To this point, there's been a pretty marked divider between young professional housing and student housing. The only student focused housing in downtown is SoCam, which were student housing before the recent building boom. At least to my knowledge, it hasn't affected the various off-campus housing areas north of the train line.

But I thought your argument was that having more housing in New Brunswick (which you said would be housing for professionals) would make it more feasible for Rutgers to continue to expand enrollment in NB. If there is "a pretty marked divider," then having more housing in New Brunswick will have no effect on students, which means it would do nothing to make expansion more feasible. So I'm confused -- can you help?

 

[Sir ScarletKnight]

But I thought your argument was that having more housing in New Brunswick (which you said would be housing for professionals) would make it more feasible for Rutgers to continue to expand enrollment in NB. If there is "a pretty marked divider," then having more housing in New Brunswick will have no effect on students, which means it would do nothing to make expansion more feasible. So I'm confused -- can you help?

No, my argument is that having more housing in New Brunswick will help traffic. Especially with the expansion of the hospitals, the new incubation space, and additional Rutgers buildings in NB, making it easier for local residents to walk to work will be important.

 

[retired711]

No, my argument is that having more housing in New Brunswick will help traffic. Especially with the expansion of the hospitals, the new incubation space, and additional Rutgers buildings in NB, making it easier for local residents to walk to work will be important.

I don't understand how putting more residents in New Brunswick will help traffic in and around New Brunswick. Are you suggesting that many of those who move into New Brunswick are presently commuting by car to New Brunswick, and will drive less because they will be able to walk to work in New Brunswick? That might be, but wouldn't you agree that only those who are childless will want to live in whatever high-rises are built in New Brunswick? I wonder how many of those now working in New Brunswick fit that category and are presently commuting to New Brunswick by car. There are advantages to having more young professionals in New Brunswick, but I'm not sure that easing traffic will be one of them.

 

[Sir ScarletKnight]

I don't understand how putting more residents in New Brunswick will help traffic in and around New Brunswick. Are you suggesting that many of those who move into New Brunswick are presently commuting by car to New Brunswick, and will drive less because they will be able to walk to work in New Brunswick? That might be, but wouldn't you agree that only those who are childless will want to live in whatever high-rises are built in New Brunswick? I wonder how many of those now working in New Brunswick fit that category and are presently commuting to New Brunswick by car. There are advantages to having more young professionals in New Brunswick, but I'm not sure that easing traffic will be one of them.

It's more that we're building more employment anyway; the new medical school, the hospital expansion, new research positions, etc. One way or another, there will be more people in New Brunswick. If more of them live there, all the better.

 

[retired711]

It's more that we're building more employment anyway; the new medical school, the hospital expansion, new research positions, etc. One way or another, there will be more people in New Brunswick. If more of them live there, all the better.

I agree that if there are going to be more people working in New Brunswick (and I agree it will in many ways be a good thing if there are more people working in New Brunswick) , it will be helpful if as many of them as possible are living in NB. That will minimize the growth in traffic that have more people will bring. But there will be an increase all the same, and so the traffic problems that limit Rutgers' expansion will be at least as bad as they are now.

I've enjoyed corresponding with you about this because it helps me understand the issues better.

 

[e5fdny]

Rutgers has no residency requirement, but to this point has not had a problem housing any first-year student that requests housing by the deadline.

Well, I was talking about after...as you should never have a problem in this day an age of housing your freshman.

I am looking at you Northeastern. 🙂

 

[retired711]

Well, I was talking about after...as you should never have a problem in this day an age of housing your freshman.

I am looking at you Northeastern. 🙂

Rutgers has occasionally had the problem of underestimating how many students will accept offers of admission, meaning at times student in the dorms have had to triple up for part of the year.

 

[e5fdny]

Rutgers has occasionally had the problem of underestimating how many students will accept offers of admission, meaning at times student in the dorms have had to triple up for part of the year.

I was one of those.

But that goes back to the “bigger is better” thing.

If there is no room at the inn it could be a turn off.

 

[Sir ScarletKnight]

I agree that if there are going to be more people working in New Brunswick (and I agree it will in many ways be a good thing if there are more people working in New Brunswick) , it will be helpful if as many of them as possible are living in NB. That will minimize the growth in traffic that have more people will bring. But there will be an increase all the same, and so the traffic problems that limit Rutgers' expansion will be at least as bad as they are now.

I've enjoyed corresponding with you about this because it helps me understand the issues better.

I think either way, we will see a growth in traffic; I don't think it will largely affect Rutgers if only because most of the growth is taking place outside of Rutgers' main campus area. The biggest issue will be getting between campuses around rush hour, which is frankly already a major issue. Rutgers should invest in true bus lanes on Route 18 and I think an overall transportation master plan is necessary.

Well, I was talking about after...as you should never have a problem in this day an age of housing your freshman.

I am looking at you Northeastern. 🙂

My understanding is that there is very rarely an issue where a student wants to live on campus and cannot.

 

[e5fdny]

My understanding is that there is very rarely an issue where a student wants to live on campus and cannot.

Thanks.

So no lotteries anymore?

 

[retired711]

I think either way, we will see a growth in traffic; I don't think it will largely affect Rutgers if only because most of the growth is taking place outside of Rutgers' main campus area. The biggest issue will be getting between campuses around rush hour, which is frankly already a major issue. Rutgers should invest in true bus lanes on Route 18 and I think an overall transportation master plan is necessary.


My understanding is that there is very rarely an issue where a student wants to live on campus and cannot.

There are really two traffic issues. One is the issue of getting between campuses, which is a bad problem for students. Yes, Rutgers needs to do much more about this. But I don't know whose permission would be needed for there to be bus lanes on 1 (a U.S. highway) or 18 (a state highway). As I'm sure you know, every so often someone here talks about how we need a monorail, but I don't know (maybe you do) of any progress toward this.

The other traffic issue -- getting to Rutgers from the surrounding area -- is more a faculty and staff issue. I shouldn't be cynical, but I suspect the administration cares a lot about this issue because administrators have to get to and fro Rutgersa almost every weekday. I don't think anyone has a workable solution to this problem other than to limit growth of the campus to try to keep things from getting even worse than they are.

 

[Sir ScarletKnight]

Thanks.

So no lotteries anymore?

There are still lotteries, but it's more about "which housing you get" and less about "did you get housing." No one I knew at Rutgers had a problem finding a spot on campus. Not everyone got their top pick.

There are really two traffic issues. One is the issue of getting between campuses, which is a bad problem for students. Yes, Rutgers needs to do much more about this. But I don't know whose permission would be needed for there to be bus lanes on 1 (a U.S. highway) or 18 (a state highway). As I'm sure you know, every so often someone here talks about how we need a monorail, but I don't know (maybe you do) of any progress toward this.

The other traffic issue -- getting to Rutgers from the surrounding area -- is more a faculty and staff issue. I shouldn't be cynical, but I suspect the administration cares a lot about this issue because administrators have to get to and fro Rutgersa almost every weekday. I don't think anyone has a workable solution to this problem other than to limit growth of the campus to try to keep things from getting even worse than they are.

A monorail\light rail has been a Rutgers pipe dream for decades. I don't see that ever happening.

Getting to RU from the surrounding area...again, more housing in the immediate area can help with this. Shorter commute, less traffic. The addition of the North Brunswick transit village, etc.

 

[retired711]

There are still lotteries, but it's more about "which housing you get" and less about "did you get housing." No one I knew at Rutgers had a problem finding a spot on campus. Not everyone got their top pick.


A monorail\light rail has been a Rutgers pipe dream for decades. I don't see that ever happening.

Getting to RU from the surrounding area...again, more housing in the immediate area can help with this. Shorter commute, less traffic. The addition of the North Brunswick transit village, etc.

You're more optimistic than I am. I wonder whether it's really feasible to build housing in the immediate area that attracts faculty and staff who are raising families. I also doubt that a significant number of faculty/staff can be induced to use mass transit. But we'll see.

My impression of the housing lottery is the same as yours, although my information isn't recent.

 

[Sir ScarletKnight]

You're more optimistic than I am. I wonder whether it's really feasible to build housing in the immediate area that attracts faculty and staff who are raising families. I also doubt that a significant number of faculty/staff can be induced to use mass transit. But we'll see.

My impression of the housing lottery is the same as yours, although my information isn't recent.

I guess the other thought is that a lot of faculty and staff aren't raising families. Young professionals, admins, grad students, etc. And many people raise families in apartments, not everyone needs or wants a house.

 

[retired711]

I guess the other thought is that a lot of faculty and staff aren't raising families. Young professionals, admins, grad students, etc. And many people raise families in apartments, not everyone needs or wants a house.

Maybe some graduate students will opt to live in new high-rise housing in New Brunswick rather than commute from, say, Bound Brook. But most graduate students don't have the income level of the young professionals who are the market for that kind of housing. Tenure-track faculty and career staff do have that income. But they want to raise their kids in a house and yard just as much as other people their age. Perhaps a few that might otherwise raise families in NYC apartments will live in New Brunswick high rises instead.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I was one of those.

But that goes back to the “bigger is better” thing.

If there is no room at the inn it could be a turn off.

I recall students were literally at an inn- a hotel in Somerset- at some point in the past few years for that reason.

 

[NotInRHouse]

There are really two traffic issues. One is the issue of getting between campuses, which is a bad problem for students. Yes, Rutgers needs to do much more about this. But I don't know whose permission would be needed for there to be bus lanes on 1 (a U.S. highway) or 18 (a state highway). As I'm sure you know, every so often someone here talks about how we need a monorail, but I don't know (maybe you do) of any progress toward this.

The other traffic issue -- getting to Rutgers from the surrounding area -- is more a faculty and staff issue. I shouldn't be cynical, but I suspect the administration cares a lot about this issue because administrators have to get to and fro Rutgersa almost every weekday. I don't think anyone has a workable solution to this problem other than to limit growth of the campus to try to keep things from getting even worse than they are.

I think there's a general NJ issue here. We have *lots* of great walkable towns and cities. But getting to them isn't so easy from the *lots* of suburban sprawl towns we have.

I live in Jersey City. It is ranked basically everywhere as one of the most walkable cities in America. And that's a fair and true ranking. i can walk to supermarkets, big box stores, bars, and restaurants, PATH, NJT train and bus routes, and more.

But i still have a car. Getting to places I need to go like the shore or RU on game day would require a laborious train route. Getting to friends and family in the suburbs would be in many cases essentially impossible. Where I grew up is a good 20 minute drive from the closest train. No buses run from there to here on the weekend. I'd have to go to the city and then bus down and have someone pick me up.

New Brunswick has the same problem. You can take the train there from lots of great suburbs like Metuchen or West Windsor that have strong schools and some variety of housing stock. You could also walk to NB from parts of Highland Park which has great schools too. However all of those towns are quite pricey. And to get to and/from East Brunswick or South Brunswick or even northern Edison would result in mindnumbing traffic- never mind points further on Route 1 or 18.

Fixing that is kind of beyond RU's scope at this point. I've advocated for a light rail that would go from say East Brunswick or the old Sears lot up George/Nielson/College Ave and then into Somerset or Pway that could serve RU and have commuter lots on each end. But that would be very pricey. And i'm sure the attitude of a lot pols would be that professors and staff can live in the towns with the easiest PT rather than adding towns to the list. And I'm sure pols are delighted for RU to get more and more students- especially the way RU has been doing it- NJ kids and international students paying full sticker- to stave off a ton from them.

I think the attitude is (unfairly) to not push our luck after the state finally gave us the money we deserved. But who knows- Murphy has been a great advocate for us and Middlesex County is a trove of votes, and better PT could help a lot of non-RU affiliated folks.

 

[retired711]

I think there's a general NJ issue here. We have *lots* of great walkable towns and cities. But getting to them isn't so easy from the *lots* of suburban sprawl towns we have.

I live in Jersey City. It is ranked basically everywhere as one of the most walkable cities in America. And that's a fair and true ranking. i can walk to supermarkets, big box stores, bars, and restaurants, PATH, NJT train and bus routes, and more.

But i still have a car. Getting to places I need to go like the shore or RU on game day would require a laborious train route. Getting to friends and family in the suburbs would be in many cases essentially impossible. Where I grew up is a good 20 minute drive from the closest train. No buses run from there to here on the weekend. I'd have to go to the city and then bus down and have someone pick me up.

New Brunswick has the same problem. You can take the train there from lots of great suburbs like Metuchen or West Windsor that have strong schools and some variety of housing stock. You could also walk to NB from parts of Highland Park which has great schools too. However all of those towns are quite pricey. And to get to and/from East Brunswick or South Brunswick or even northern Edison would result in mindnumbing traffic- never mind points further on Route 1 or 18.

Fixing that is kind of beyond RU's scope at this point. I've advocated for a light rail that would go from say East Brunswick or the old Sears lot up George/Nielson/College Ave and then into Somerset or Pway that could serve RU and have commuter lots on each end. But that would be very pricey. And i'm sure the attitude of a lot pols would be that professors and staff can live in the towns with the easiest PT rather than adding towns to the list. And I'm sure pols are delighted for RU to get more and more students- especially the way RU has been doing it- NJ kids and international students paying full sticker- to stave off a ton from them.

I think the attitude is (unfairly) to not push our luck after the state finally gave us the money we deserved. But who knows- Murphy has been a great advocate for us and Middlesex County is a trove of votes, and better PT could help a lot of non-RU affiliated folks.

You make lots of good points. My hunch is that the loss in transit riders due to the pandemic (despite recovery, transit use levels are still only about 70% of pre-pandemic levels) makes it harder than ever to build support for new transit projects. BTW, I wonder where new young faculty at Rutgers are finding affordable housing now that prices have gotten so high. https://www.apta.com/news-publicati...-more-than-70-percent-of-pre-pandemic-levels/

 

[NotInRHouse]

You make lots of good points. My hunch is that the loss in transit riders due to the pandemic (despite recovery, transit use levels are still only about 70% of pre-pandemic levels) makes it harder than ever to build support for new transit projects. BTW, I wonder where new young faculty at Rutgers are finding affordable housing now that prices have gotten so high. https://www.apta.com/news-publicati...-more-than-70-percent-of-pre-pandemic-levels/

In NYC it's like 60%. I am sure we are going to hear a lot of "people work at home and just Uber"- and I'm often one of those people. But few people Uber such long distances.

Relatively, I think a lot of the nicer towns around NB aren't terribly expensive. If you're young without kids, there's a lot of strong choices. But maybe I'm jaded living in one of the more expensive parts of NJ at least on a price per square foot basis.

 

[retired711]

In NYC it's like 60%. I am sure we are going to hear a lot of "people work at home and just Uber"- and I'm often one of those people. But few people Uber such long distances.

Relatively, I think a lot of the nicer towns around NB aren't terribly expensive. If you're young without kids, there's a lot of strong choices. But maybe I'm jaded living in one of the more expensive parts of NJ at least on a price per square foot basis.

It is pretty clear that in NYC a fear of crime is part of the problem in reviving subway ridership.

Yes, there are options for those who are young without kids. But most your people, even in this generattion, aspire to have kids, and there need to be good (and affordable) options for them.

 

[NotInRHouse]

It is pretty clear that in NYC a fear of crime is part of the problem in reviving subway ridership.

Yes, there are options for those who are young without kids. But most your people, even in this generattion, aspire to have kids, and there need to be good (and affordable) options for them.

Certainly, even if it's not fully justified.

I'm in prime-child having age for my generation and I would be pretty OK to afford a house in central NJ in line with the one I grew up in. And I could do that working from home and moving to a good district. But someone who has to drive to RU everyday would be more limited.