So here’s the thing
- Thread starter RUsojo
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Grand Canyon U is like two hours from the actual Grand Canyon, in Phoenix. They turn their basketball games into a giant party... one of the best atmospheres in the entire country including blue bloods.
I don't want to bash players on our roster current and past.......I am sick of hoping/wishing/expecting our 3 and 4 star recruits to be successful in a half court offense and making perimeter shots.
PLEASE DON't DO THIS!!!!!!!!
In a binary world you are either a low level recruit on the upswing or a high level recruit. Look at this roster currently and over the past 5 years and make 2 teams. We all know which team we would take.
PLEASE DON't DO THIS!!!!!!!!
In a binary world you are either a low level recruit on the upswing or a high level recruit. Look at this roster currently and over the past 5 years and make 2 teams. We all know which team we would take.
Are we allowed to mention the disasters that were Matt Bullock, Souf Menah and to a lesser extend Candio Sa?
I hear you, but RU should not be settling to be PSU in hoops. We have very fertile recruiting ground, a far more diverse campus and a more rabid basketball fan base despite the years of misery. That should allow us to compete at a higher level in the Big 10.
I liked Waters and he had it going for a while. He could coach and he was a gentleman who represented RU well. But he couldn't recruit and, after some initial success, he regressed. He was loyal to his coaches which hurt him. He wanted to be in the midwest. He might have pulled it off if we were in the B1G and he could mine his natural recruiting territory better than he did in NJ. But at that time, he needed east coast players and couldn't land them.
See even I don't hold those against Pikiell because of how hard it was to get bodies in the program at that point. Sa was a legit JUCO prospect, Bullock was a first-team all-state guy, and Mensah, well, that one's still a head-scratcher but he was processed out after one season so not much harm done.
Sa originally committed to Eddie, so I thought it was actually a good job by Pikiell to keep that commitment. If I recall he led the JUCO ranks in blocks. Worthwhile take, IMO.
And you've seen the pictures of Myles Powell in high school, right? Imagine if Matt Bullock had transformed like Powell did. This is not a knock on Bullock... Powell is the exception, not the rule, and is clearly wired in a way that makes him special. But I don't think it was a disaster to take him, especially since Pikiell had a good relationship with the RC coach from the Jameel Warney days at Stony Brook.
Cliff Omoruyi got to see us play in front of 5,500 fans that were half asleep.
He recruited Farmer, Inman and Griffin in his last year andwasnt allowed to coach them.
That is in part thanks to an awful non-conference home schedule that would put a meth addict to sleep. I expect a great atmosphere for SHU, which will showcase the fan potential.
To me after year five if he still hasn't reached .500 and the class coming in doesn't have those difference makers that will allow us to take the next step, then you have to say to yourself is he really going to get it done by year 7, or ever.
Thank you! This is exactly it. Once the narrative changes, it becomes that much tougher to climb out
Pike is Pike. He’s a great man and a great coach, and for sure he (and his assistants) can do better, particularly with creating better offensive sets, establishing better player rotations, and improving the foul shooting of 2 or 3 guys.
I think we on this board hyped up the team more than Pike did. I know I’m guilty of that. Pike did say he thought we would have more guys who could put the ball in the hoop, which we do. He also cautioned that our D needs work, which it does, although it’s been stellar in most games.
He also probably figured, based on practices and scrimmages, that Young would be that cat quick point guard who could dish the rock, and that our shooters would nail threes at a much heftier clip. Well, I think he’s rethinking both of those things right now. My guess is Young will play less point and certain guys will be asked to limit their threes and take it into the paint more instead.
Despite the two disappointing and deflating losses on the road, and some of the close calls at home, I still think we can and will have a good year. It’s entirely possible that we will play better against not only better teams, but better teams that we’re more familiar with, especially at home.
I think we on this board hyped up the team more than Pike did. I know I’m guilty of that. Pike did say he thought we would have more guys who could put the ball in the hoop, which we do. He also cautioned that our D needs work, which it does, although it’s been stellar in most games.
He also probably figured, based on practices and scrimmages, that Young would be that cat quick point guard who could dish the rock, and that our shooters would nail threes at a much heftier clip. Well, I think he’s rethinking both of those things right now. My guess is Young will play less point and certain guys will be asked to limit their threes and take it into the paint more instead.
Despite the two disappointing and deflating losses on the road, and some of the close calls at home, I still think we can and will have a good year. It’s entirely possible that we will play better against not only better teams, but better teams that we’re more familiar with, especially at home.
So what? Farmer was just ok, Inman was a legend in his own mind only and Griffin was just another guy. Only because the guys following him were abject failures does Waters look better than he was in retrospect. His recruiting was terrible.
No. I mean just in general. One great bball recruit can get you to the NCAAs. Even a great QB like McMahon won't lift a whole FB team. Eddie Jordan was historically bad too.
We can go round and round if you like but the bottom line is our roster is made up of recruits at the level you are asking for and we have more coming in so you are getting your wish. We are a bad basketball team and I am willing to bet $1000 to RU athletics that we won’t make the NCAAs over the next two years if we continue to recruit this way. You up for that?
No. My base hypothesis is we don't have the horses. I don't think I'd make that bet at 10 to 1.
I don't think it is true in general. A football coach inheriting the equivalent of what Pike inherited should absolutely get more than four years if there is improvement and signs of progress.
Ash, specifically, had us to the depths of one of the worst FBS teams. Not worst power five, legitimately like bottom 10-15 FBS on the order of South Alabama and UT San Antonio.
No one would want to give Pike six years if he went 0-20 in the Big Ten over and over I don't think; it's not like we gave Hill or Jordan six years and there was no reason to.
I like Pike a lot too and I really want him to win here. I have said before and I'll stand by my past words...Pike probably needs 7-8 years to make the NCAAs. Maybe when Mathis-MacConnell-Harper-Johnson-Duc are all seniors and Mulcahy is a junior will we have a team that might contend to be a bubble team. But that's year 6 and we are only in year 4.
I am worried now that he won't be given the time to accomplish his mission, or maybe that he won't accomplish the mission even if he is given that amount of time.
His recruiting just hasn't delivered enough. We know he is not being outworked, and he has come close to a few players. But that isn't worth anything. These kids that Pike comes close to reeling in go somewhere else and win there. Some people have griped that Pike can't close the deal with recruiting, and I think they might be right. I worry if his clean program approach, while honorable, is a foolish strategy to win in such a crooked game. He missed out on Alvarado (a true PG we would really need right now), Massoud, Hyatt. He doesn't beat out big programs to get many players. If he continues to keep losing the Alvarado-Massoud-Hyatt scenarios and lands only one Mulcahy-Mathis a year, it's just gonna be a good enough roster to ever win 20 games IMO. Sorry to say, but this recruiting class that has the #223,337,391 players isn't going to cut it year after year in the Big10. I understand Pike has been good with the formula of player development of lesser recruits, but you can't have a team full of average talent with no gamebreakers and no players that would be on any other Big 10 starting lineup.
Up to this point, I think Pike's coaching has been overall pretty good. I think he looks good too since he is following Jordan, who was a joke. But losing a top assistant in Jay Young and not replacing him with someone who appears to be on his level (sorry to say that but that's how it appears to me), results in a hit to the efficacy of your coaching staff.
I voted for 1-3 in the gauntlet. If RU beats Wisconsin and plays SHU and MSU close, I might feel better, but I don't have a ton of home that 1-3 will be the outcome anymore. If the team goes 0-4 in this stretch, these growing doubts that I have listed will be stronger.
I'm sorry to say that, because I really like Pike and want to see him win here.
I am worried now that he won't be given the time to accomplish his mission, or maybe that he won't accomplish the mission even if he is given that amount of time.
His recruiting just hasn't delivered enough. We know he is not being outworked, and he has come close to a few players. But that isn't worth anything. These kids that Pike comes close to reeling in go somewhere else and win there. Some people have griped that Pike can't close the deal with recruiting, and I think they might be right. I worry if his clean program approach, while honorable, is a foolish strategy to win in such a crooked game. He missed out on Alvarado (a true PG we would really need right now), Massoud, Hyatt. He doesn't beat out big programs to get many players. If he continues to keep losing the Alvarado-Massoud-Hyatt scenarios and lands only one Mulcahy-Mathis a year, it's just gonna be a good enough roster to ever win 20 games IMO. Sorry to say, but this recruiting class that has the #223,337,391 players isn't going to cut it year after year in the Big10. I understand Pike has been good with the formula of player development of lesser recruits, but you can't have a team full of average talent with no gamebreakers and no players that would be on any other Big 10 starting lineup.
Up to this point, I think Pike's coaching has been overall pretty good. I think he looks good too since he is following Jordan, who was a joke. But losing a top assistant in Jay Young and not replacing him with someone who appears to be on his level (sorry to say that but that's how it appears to me), results in a hit to the efficacy of your coaching staff.
I voted for 1-3 in the gauntlet. If RU beats Wisconsin and plays SHU and MSU close, I might feel better, but I don't have a ton of home that 1-3 will be the outcome anymore. If the team goes 0-4 in this stretch, these growing doubts that I have listed will be stronger.
I'm sorry to say that, because I really like Pike and want to see him win here.
0-4 is still pretty unlikely. Even if our chances to win these games are only 40%, 5%, and 25% (and I think this is extremely conservative) then we'd have a 57% chance to get at least one of them.
Edit: posted percentages in weird order but is meant to mean
MSU 5%
Wisky 40%
SHU 25%
MSU doesn't look elite so I've got to believe the chances are >5% (bart gives us 14% and he still has them at #8 somehow). Wisky hasn't given any indications they're even better than us so 40% at home has to be an understatement and Seton Hall at 25% also seems low to me.
Edit: posted percentages in weird order but is meant to mean
MSU 5%
Wisky 40%
SHU 25%
MSU doesn't look elite so I've got to believe the chances are >5% (bart gives us 14% and he still has them at #8 somehow). Wisky hasn't given any indications they're even better than us so 40% at home has to be an understatement and Seton Hall at 25% also seems low to me.
If we average Bart and Massey our odds for winning these games are:
MSU 11.5%
Wisky 52.5%
SHU 36.5%
which would put the "gauntlet" record chances at
0-4 : 26.7%
1-3 : 48.3%
2-2 : 22.8%
3-1 : 2.2%
MSU 11.5%
Wisky 52.5%
SHU 36.5%
which would put the "gauntlet" record chances at
0-4 : 26.7%
1-3 : 48.3%
2-2 : 22.8%
3-1 : 2.2%
I will say it again, Coach Pike is the best coach and developer of talent we have had in a real long time. Talk of hot seat is so ridiculous as are comparisons to that loser Ash are so off base and ridiculous . Let’s try and look at this objectively. Rutgers has not had a winning program since 2006, nor made the NCAA’s since 1991. Very few players and their AAU handlers want to play on a losing team or think they alone can turn the tide. So when Coach is not getting Alvarado, or Massoud, or Hyatt, normally you would fairly criticize him for not landing a better player. I look at it another way. Pike has gotten us to the final2 or final 4 of those player selections when previously we were not on the radar and no coach has recruited a top 20-75 player here. Not Wenzel, not Bannon, not Waters, not Hill, not Rice , and not JORDAN. Pike has made us relevant again. The jury is still out but our sophomores, Montes, Ron, Caleb, and Myles will determine how good we will be. They are in the beginning of their second years and we are hopeful of them getting incrementally better . They have gotten better but not to the level we thought as Ron was supposed to be unstoppable and put up20 a night, Myles a double double machine, Montes an athletic slasher , and Caleb a 5 tool player. No one has become that all Big 10 player yet, despite all of them at times has shown they are capable. Upperclassmen usually are the ones to improve a team significantly, but Geo, Jacob, and Akwasi have not been able to elevate their games to the next level yet. I like our roster but we have not jelled yet and I am not sure why. One thing I know, we do not have superstars and top 50 players, and no First, Second or Third team all Big 10 players so the results have been less than overwhelming . Rutgers has almost never recruited such players unless we go back to Dickie V and Sellers and Dabney . In today’s climate and cheating , it is even harder. Until we win. If we win consistently that will change and all of a sudden Pike will win those battles . So we have to root hard for this year and next year’s team to win, because regardless of the coach , losing programs are not recruiting top players unless some dirty tricks are involved .
I also think Coach can put the players in a better position to succeed by running a different offensive set , a motion offense , with Geo and Montes coming off curls and Geo shooting and Montes driving to the hole. I also think Coach should be playing inside out and keep Myles and Ron down low and not let Ron hang around the perimeter and not bring Myles up to screen all the time because our guards are piss poor at feeding Myles when he rolls, something that should have been corrected by now. The half court offense runs the same play , then, if it is defended well, we are left with hoping our guards break down their man or chucking up a shot. It is a small sample size but I think we are a good 2 point shooting team and a not so good 3 point shooting team . Geo and Ron and Caleb and Akwasi can and have shot over 50 % from 2 this year. The mid range game is a dinosaur in this 3 point era but our shooting 10-15 foot shots combined with driving to the hole getting more foul shots than every team we play is still a recipe for success . We still have to hit at least 5 threes a game but we should be hoisting 10-15 threes a game not 15-30 . Finally, our players have to play better and more consistently
I also think Coach can put the players in a better position to succeed by running a different offensive set , a motion offense , with Geo and Montes coming off curls and Geo shooting and Montes driving to the hole. I also think Coach should be playing inside out and keep Myles and Ron down low and not let Ron hang around the perimeter and not bring Myles up to screen all the time because our guards are piss poor at feeding Myles when he rolls, something that should have been corrected by now. The half court offense runs the same play , then, if it is defended well, we are left with hoping our guards break down their man or chucking up a shot. It is a small sample size but I think we are a good 2 point shooting team and a not so good 3 point shooting team . Geo and Ron and Caleb and Akwasi can and have shot over 50 % from 2 this year. The mid range game is a dinosaur in this 3 point era but our shooting 10-15 foot shots combined with driving to the hole getting more foul shots than every team we play is still a recipe for success . We still have to hit at least 5 threes a game but we should be hoisting 10-15 threes a game not 15-30 . Finally, our players have to play better and more consistently
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