Starting 5 for 2017

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Mensah arrived today. I'm anxiously awaiting Pikiell's first public comments on him. He already said his biggest concern was the lack of passing. Then he brings in a true PG who said all he wants to do is use his speed and find the open man.

IMO, he starts and sets the tone with his emphasis on ball movement....then it becomes contagious with the rest of the team....especially Sanders, who has a tendency of holding onto the ball too much.

Last year there were too many 1 on 1 plays with Sanders, Johnson, Freeman and even Williams at times. A good offense needs to make sure guys are catching the ball on the way to basket....not 1 on 1 dribbling to the basket....unless you are Kentucky with its Dribble Drive motion offense and top 10 drafts picks in the lineup.

 

[ouchmyknee]

I don't think Corey came back to not play the point. The only chance he has to play in the NBA is as a PG. I'm sure he was told this during this last evaluation period. He'll be the starter.

 

[4theknights]

I don't think Corey came back to not play the point. The only chance he has to play in the NBA is as a PG. I'm sure he was told this during this last evaluation period. He'll be the starter.

This should be interesting. Coach stressed the importance of a true PG to quarterback the team, hence the Souf pickup. This may be staff's biggest challenge to let Corey know that its about playing better in our facets of his game and not the minutes at the point. I get the feeling once with we see Souf run the team that this may be our best chance of winning and hopefully his skills rub off on Corey enhancing his point skills with better passing.

 

[soundcrib]

Souf is backing up Sanders.

 

[higgins3]

Sanders will be pushed by Mensah, and is listening to Pikiell now on the active conversation on where he needs to be if he wants to have a chance at the big show.

Unless a lot of things were to go right, I do not see Mensah taking Sanders position. I keep seeing true pg. A true pg is a huge rarity. Mensahs pass/turnover ratio is not indicative of everything that is being said here. He will be an asset to the team,though and push for 12-14 minutes a game. This is Sanders year to prove he can listen to someone to get him where he wants to be. It's on the table. Let's see what happens.

 

[Degaz-RU]

The fact that Mensah had no other legit offers tells me that he won't be the starting PG on a Big Ten team.

Also, there's no way Sanders and Williams don't play 60 minutes collectively on average. That leaves 20 minutes for Mensah and Baker.

 

[AshCatchEm]

The fact that Mensah had no other legit offers tells me that he won't be the starting PG on a Big Ten team.

Also, there's no way Sanders and Williams don't play 60 minutes collectively on average. That leaves 20 minutes for Mensah and Baker.

That is not strong reasoning..if you pointed out certain parts of his skillset I'd agree but to just say "no offer guys can't start in the big ten" is silly. Mensah and Baker aren't going to split 20 minutes. Baker will probably play close to 20 min by himself. We are not going to bench one of our better scoring threats.

 

[higgins3]

It is going to be fun to hear feedback, and watch things play out.

The team will have a little versatility. If you watched the Celtics, teams that have versatility benefit. There could easily be times a three guard set is run, and Souf is in there with Williams battling for rebounds at 6 2 and 210 pounds.

I like the fact that Souf has a near 50% fg rate. I think his strength will be his driving and drawing. Career total for free throw percentage at 51 percent doesn't exactly have you confident on the draw. A 1.1 assist to t/o doesn't make you think he is lethal in transition with his decision making enough to become the pure pg that people think. It's easier to dish out 4 assist where the defenses can be lackluster.Sanders is almost the same to/assist wise, but he has played D1 for two years. He is more of a known commodity at this point and has seen and played in the big ten.

We all hope Mensah succeeds here, we just have to wait it out a little to get more information.

 

[4theknights]

No idea how many min Souf will get but I look forward to seeing a true PG run our offense... a pass first guy. I think it will be interesting to see rotation and ball movement and see somebody like Mike Williams or Issa get real good looks.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Baker is going to be miles ahead of Souf as a player, scorer, distributor....The rotation will be similar to last year when Nigel Johnson was here....just have to sub in Baker for Nigel

Sanders and Williams are your locked in starters.....Williams would be the first player subbed in for by Baker, while Sanders stays in the game at PG.....then when Sanders comes out a minute or so after Mike, is when you should see Souf in the game likely as a backcourt player with Baker....

Depending on how Baker and Souf play as a tandem, will determine who comes back in first....If Baker is playing well, when Williams is ready to come back in the game, he will likely come in for Souf, while moving Baker to PG.

I can only see Souf playing more than 12 minutes a game, if Baker is able to score and allow the proper rest for Mike and Corey...Baker is really the key to making this rotation work, he has the ability to match the minutes per game vacated by Nigel's departure.

If Souf works himself into the position to play more, it will be because he's super-efficient on offense, not turning the ball over and borderline dominant defensively, where he slows people down. That will benefit everyone to get Souf to a point where we know what he can bring to the table some few quality minutes each half.

 

[MadRU]

Baker also has to prove he can defend at this level to get Nigel minutes.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Baker is going to be miles ahead of Souf as a player, scorer, distributor....The rotation will be similar to last year when Nigel Johnson was here....just have to sub in Baker for Nigel

Sanders and Williams are your locked in starters.....Williams would be the first player subbed in for by Baker, while Sanders stays in the game at PG.....then when Sanders comes out a minute or so after Mike, is when you should see Souf in the game likely as a backcourt player with Baker....

Depending on how Baker and Souf play as a tandem, will determine who comes back in first....If Baker is playing well, when Williams is ready to come back in the game, he will likely come in for Souf, while moving Baker to PG.

I can only see Souf playing more than 12 minutes a game, if Baker is able to score and allow the proper rest for Mike and Corey...Baker is really the key to making this rotation work, he has the ability to match the minutes per game vacated by Nigel's departure.

If Souf works himself into the position to play more, it will be because he's super-efficient on offense, not turning the ball over and borderline dominant defensively, where he slows people down. That will benefit everyone to get Souf to a point where we know what he can bring to the table some few quality minutes each half.

Miles Ahead ?? I stopped reading right there. Neither guy has had a Rutgers practice yet.....it's getting silly.

 

[AshCatchEm]

Miles Ahead ?? I stopped reading right there. Neither guy has had a Rutgers practice yet.....it's getting silly.

I don't think it's crazy to imagine that better recruit who has balled out every night in h.s. will be ahead of souf who is more of a developmental project. I'm not sure why people have such trouble imagining Baker coming in playing a ton of minutes. He is a scorer..we needed a scorer. I could easily see him developing into a better shooter than Nigel.

 

[RUonBrain]

Four of those 5 have an sa in their name and Freeman has sha. Three of them have sa at the end of their first or last names.

IMO, that is a good saign.

 

[RUsojo]

Souf will help Rutgers this year, but I doubt he starts.

Sanders, Williams,Thiam,Freeman, Sa

First off Omoyuri for Thiam, Baker for Williams, then Johnson for Sa.

I want to be hopeful for Doorsons return, but on the second surgery and a high impact sport, hard to predict.

Thiam finished a lot of games this past year. I think the same happens this year coming up.

This is pretty much it. Key will be what position Pike likes O at the most.

 

[higgins3]

Pikiell is a smart guy. He brought in versatile players. Omoyuri will play both the wing, and some minutes on the post. No reason to put him to one position. Very much match up dependent.

 

[RutgHoops]

Two things I learned from watching Coach Pikiell's first season:

• We play sound defense and rebound
• 10 guys are averaging double figures in minutes. He plays his roster.

I like our guard depth better this year than last. I think you'll see Souf and Corey on the floor together. Maybe not starting but they'll play together.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Baker, mansah, Eugene, Issa, Johnson, Sa are all huge question marks. Not sure how anyone can have any conviction on minutes EXCEPT

Chandler 30+
Freeman 28+
Williams 28+

That leaves up to 114 minutes left. Perhaps 7 guys will get 16 + or - a few. 7*16=112.

It will all sort out..defense, rebounding and following the overall script will get minutes. I really think it is all speculation at this point. Hopefully guys will earn minutes as opposed to get them by default.

 

[MadRU]

Baker, mansah, Eugene, Issa, Johnson, Sa are all huge question marks. Not sure how anyone can have any conviction on minutes EXCEPT

Chandler 30+
Freeman 28+
Williams 28+

That leaves up to 114 minutes left. Perhaps 7 guys will get 16 + or - a few. 7*16=112.

It will all sort out..defense, rebounding and following the overall script will get minutes. I really think it is all speculation at this point. Hopefully guys will earn minutes as opposed to get them by default.

Chandler? Didn't he transfer out years ago, lol. Sanders

 

[RutgersMO]

Four of those 5 have an sa in their name and Freeman has sha. Three of them have sa at the end of their first or last names.

If you're drunk or semi literate DeSHAwn qualifies:n'cest pas?:basketball:

The Scarlet Sa's!

MO

 

[bowlgoal]

Williams and Sanders start in the backcourt. My guess is Freeman, Doorsan and Thiam are the other 3 players. Sa could replace Doorsan depending on how the knee progresses. Sa is working very hard.

If Doorsan starts:

Baker, Sa, omuyuri, Mensah and Johnson.


There's your 10 man rotation. Bullock is a question mark and maybe we can add another player.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Miles Ahead ?? I stopped reading right there. Neither guy has had a Rutgers practice yet.....it's getting silly.

Why should Souf be ahead, when he's without the track record and does not have any stats to back up anything beyond being the 4th guard??

I'm rooting for all and anyone that puts on the RU uniform but the final New England 2017 rankings are out and Baker is 13th in all of NE....this is not a rivals or scout or 247 site, it's a pretty reliable gauge of what New England generates as far as talent every year.

I don't know how else to explain it, but Baker is a better player than many here want to expect, because everyone here is afraid of expectations....

Let me break it down this way....

Nigel took 332 shots and 113 of those shots were 3 pointers.....he made 42 of those 113.....on average that's 10 shots per game....obviously there were some games where he took only took a few shots and others where he took 14-15 shots a game.

What other guard on the roster do you think (logically), absorbs the bulk of those shot attempts as we move towards the real goal of building a more competitive roster in 2018-2020....should it be Baker or Mensah as a pass first PG??

You cannot ask Sanders to absorb those shot attempts, it's not realistic, Mensah was brought here to lighten the workload of Sanders on the ball/same with Baker as well....... and Williams can pick up a couple of the 10-12 shot attempts that Nigel took, but he's not going to play more than 30-32 minutes a game and make up for those shot attempts.... or Thiam (who cannot create his own offense as of last year) and would rightfully be slotted at the SF position.

The only viable/talented enough player on the roster that is going to handle the ball is Baker and Souf.....and by all definitions of game tape and college JUCO action, Souf has not shown any semblance of being a scoring threat that should take more than 4-5 shots a game, if that......if that was the case the stat line, would have shown that as an option.

That leaves in a normal sense, Baker who will play many more minutes than Souf as the other backcourt primary scoring options with Sanders and Williams....I'm not saying Baker will be handed those minutes, he's going to earn them with his playmaking ability and capability to shoot 3's, get to the basket and make plays.....at 6'3", he will be more than OK defensively.....I don't see any way he's not around 8-9 shot attempts per game and adding another couple of FT's, as the other way to score.

You can argue all day long against me or try and downplay Baker for whatever reason because he's a freshman and sure there are going to be "freshman" types of nights, which is fine in Year one......, but Mike Williams (whether because of lack of depth or otherwise), averaged 25-26 minutes a game as a freshman.....I don't see any other way Baker doesn't play that many minutes, unless you have a grad transfer guard stashed somewhere to play Nigel's minutes left on the boxscore....

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/rankings/new-england-class-of-2017

To support what or where I am referencing Baker and the other high profile recruits that are coming out of NE and going to other Power 5, Big East type of conferences.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Oops

 

[RickB113]

Hawk, choppin knows what he is talking about. He played at a high level and knows. Just go with what he says.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Hawk, choppin knows what he is talking about. He played at a high level and knows. Just go with what he says.

I prefer @RickB113 . Because Rick has sat in 113 for 20 years. That makes his opinions like gold. Just ask RickB and he'll volunteer that information and let you know why he's the smartest guy on the board with opinions head and shoulders over everyone. Only guy who can watch a 4 minute tape and reach concrete conclusions about every Rutgers recruit......20 years of watching.

He used that one me several months ago when I asked him why he posts opinions like they are FACTS....... " 20 years of watching " was his response.

 

[RickB113]

I prefer @RickB113 . Because Rick has sat in 113 for 20 years. That makes his opinions like gold. Just ask RickB and he'll volunteer that information and let you know why he's the smartest guy on the board with opinions head and shoulders over everyone. Only guy who can watch a 4 minute tape and reach concrete conclusions about every Rutgers recruit......20 years of watching.

He used that one me several months ago when I asked him why he posts opinions like they are FACTS....... " 20 years of watching " was his response.

In the interest of full disclosure I am messing with you a little bit. You seem like a good fan and I certainly respect your opinion. We want the same thing. But if you want to go with my knowledge I played with John Celestand early and then against him and bailey in high school. So I have played with and against D1 players. By no means does that make me an expert but I have an idea of what I am taking about. My opinion is no better or worse than yours.

 

[RutgHoops]

....
Nigel took 332 shots and 113 of those shots were 3 pointers.....he made 42 of those 113.....on average that's 10 shots per game....obviously there were some games where he took only took a few shots and others where he took 14-15 shots a game.

....
You can argue all day long against me or try and downplay Baker for whatever reason because he's a freshman and sure there are going to be "freshman" types of nights, which is fine in Year one......, but Mike Williams (whether because of lack of depth or otherwise), averaged 25-26 minutes a game as a freshman.....I don't see any other way Baker doesn't play that many minutes, unless you have a grad transfer guard stashed somewhere to play Nigel's minutes left on the boxscore....

Williams played those 25 minutes per as a freshman under Eddie (not Coach P). If you look at B1G games last season 11 players averaged 9.5 mpg or more in conference games. Only Corey averaged over 30 mpg (31.6) and only Williams and Freeman averaged over 26 mpg (27.3 and 27.7 respectively).

Like you, I think Baker is a very solid addition for Rutgers. But I would think he is getting minutes similar to Thiam (17.4 per) or Omoruyi (14 per). With how hard Coach P insists the kids play, unless a frosh is a "really special player" I don't see them cracking 20 minutes per.

Coach P uses his whole roster. I think Bullock is going to play some minutes and if Johnson is "ready" I wouldn't be surprised to see this team go 12 deep (and I write that as someone who until a year ago didn't think you could go 11 deep.)

Just my $0.02

 

[MadRU]

And we still have to weigh in a possible grad transfer into the equation.

 

[Degaz-RU]

Baker, mansah, Eugene, Issa, Johnson, Sa are all huge question marks. Not sure how anyone can have any conviction on minutes EXCEPT

Chandler 30+
Freeman 28+
Williams 28+

That leaves up to 114 minutes left. Perhaps 7 guys will get 16 + or - a few. 7*16=112.

It will all sort out..defense, rebounding and following the overall script will get minutes. I really think it is all speculation at this point. Hopefully guys will earn minutes as opposed to get them by default.

I agree with this (except his name is Sanders, not Chandler, LOL).

I know I'm the one who initially posted a MPG distribution in this thread, but that was mainly to have an interesting discussion and to play a little amateur GM. But I think FIG hits the nail on the head here:

Sanders, Freeman and Williams will be the undisputed starters and leaders of this team, and will all average in the upper 20s in terms of MPG, with Sanders likely cracking 30 MPG. Everybody else's minutes will depend on how they develop, matchups, ability to play defense and rebound etc., and all of them are question marks right now, though it is my prediction that Thiam makes the jump this year to bona fide starter at the WF position.