STOP BLAMING ASH!

[RUReady76]

it's not "pretty much the same players." Caroo and Grant are light years better than talent we have on the field. Our linebackers were much better. All that said, just like we could have won two more last year, we could have lost two as well...so what's the point? Ash would have lost more games last year?

We are a less competitive team this year and arguably less disciplined as well. Yesterday's game shows that we are underperforming with a 2-7 record.

Who is responsible for this? Last year it was the HC. Are you suggesting that this year it is the players?

 

[Dpgru]

We are a less competitive team this year and arguably less disciplined as well. Yesterday's game shows that we are underperforming with a 2-7 record.

Who is responsible for this? Last year it was the HC. Are you suggesting that this year it is the players?

It doesn't matter whose fault it is - some of it is Flood's poor recruiting, some is the talent, some is the key injury to Grant, some is the decision making and game planning of the staff. There is no one reason (there rarely is) but, the important thing is that this staff a) gets the recruiting going and brings in BIG talent and b) this staff does a serious self evaluation and learns from their mistakes.

 

[mildone]

But you have to admit this season has been even worse than anticipated.

Actually, I don't have to admit that. This season is going pretty much as I anticipated. I'd hoped otherwise, but had zero expectations of doing much better. I anticipate that next season will be more of the same, maybe another win or two and a bit more competitive against the elite teams.

Heading into the 2016 season, we lacked talent and experience. We lacked the depth to survive injuries to key players. We lacked a culture of winning in really tough games against really good opponents. We lacked a program enhancing QB. We had a young coaching staff that was going to need a bit of time to gain experience in their new roles. The team was learning a whole new system of offense and a different approach to playing defense. We faced a tremendously difficult schedule.

I recall people saying they expected to win six games this season. Those expectations were completely ridiculous. The problems in our program do not get fixed overnight.

The good news for next season is that our young coaching staff will be more experienced and more settled in their new jobs. We have some good recruits coming in and some might help right away. A second off-season under a great S&C coach is going to help us catch up a bit more. We will have a chance to be more healthy (might have Grant back, for instance).

But we are still razor thin with what talent we have. We lost a number of players under Flood who might otherwise be contributing right now. Our talent gap on the lines is severe (recruiting rankings never tell the whole story, watching the games tells the story) and lack depth. Basically, we're always one or two key injuries from being non-competitive.

We play in an unforgiving conference. Against well-coached teams loaded with talent. In order to be more competitive, we have to build up a much more talented and experienced two deep so we can survive injuries and still perform at a high level.

It's fair to critique the coaches, I suppose. But is it productive or helpful to do so in the manner in which it's happening? I think not. There's nothing to be gained with this drumbeat of negativity towards the coaching staff from a segment of our fan base.

 

[miker183]

I am not willing to write off Ash. I feel that we made the right hire. I DO, however, wonder if he made the right hires.

As the team stands right now, the OC should be evaluated at season's end; if Ash chooses to keep him, fine. But, I think it's fair to assume that he has been a bit behind the curve. Without question, the Special Teams coach should be replaced. There has been a lot of discussion of talent, depth, and not the right players, but last year's specials was MUCH better with much of the same personnel, so that dog won't hunt.

I have seen a lot of improvement in the secondary, but more is needed. We have a long road in front of us, it will require patience, and it won't be easy. As the saying goes, "a journey of 1,000 miles starts with a single step." It is true, we need to avoid detours; if there are better options for the staff, they should be examined.

 

[willisneverrana43]

. . . The only superb talent on this team is Hamilton and JPO. . . . .

It's hard to tell about DLineman unless you make the effort to focus on only them for a significant number of plays. But, with that caveat, I'm not sure that since the injury Hamilton has ever been as good as he was.

 

[cicero grimes]

Nick Saban would be hard pressed to win with this talent. It all starts with talent. Ash needs to recruit. He will succeed or fail based upon recruiting.

 

[urbanecane]

LOL at anyone saying this season is going as anticipated. Even if you expected 2 wins, no one can tell me they foresaw a 78-0 loss and 49-0 to a 2-7 team. How many games has RU had less than 100 passing yards? 3? That is just unfathomable. I'm not old enough to remember Schiano's first year, does anyone remember if there was at least progress? (even if the losses kept coming) More than the record, it's hard not to be discouraged by the lack of improvement through the season. I will give Ash credit for better cornerback play and less penalties (at least it seems that way), but offense, defense and special teams have been following the same pattern since week 1. As sad as it is to say, I think Ash needs to seriously consider demoting Mehringer. It has been THAT brutal.

 

[mildone]

LOL at anyone saying this season is going as anticipated. Even if you expected 2 wins, no one can tell me they foresaw a 78-0 loss and 49-0 to a 2-7 team. How many games has RU had less than 100 passing yards? 3? That is just unfathomable. I'm not old enough to remember Schiano's first year, does anyone remember if there was at least progress? (even if the losses kept coming) More than the record, it's hard not to be discouraged by the lack of improvement through the season. I will give Ash credit for better cornerback play and less penalties (at least it seems that way), but offense, defense and special teams have been following the same pattern since week 1. As sad as it is to say, I think Ash needs to seriously consider demoting Mehringer. It has been THAT brutal.

Laugh all you want; it's better to be laughing than crying.

I was pretty sure we'd get totally blown out by OSU who I always thought would be better this year than last. Was pretty sure w/Michigan, although not quite as sure. And I never expected MSU to be as bad as they've been this season, so I had that game as a blowout too.

I hoped we'd do better, but I expected it to be this bad. And again, for the record, I expect pretty much the same next season. Which you will apparently forget and claim nobody would have expected it.

You do realize Nebraska lost 62 - 3 to OSU, right? And Nebraska was ranked pretty high at the time, IIRC. Blowouts happen even with really good teams. So why anybody would be surprised that a really bad team (us) is getting blown out is beyond my comprehension. We have a long way to go before we're considered as good a football team as Nebraska.

 

[REDRICH65]

By this time in his first year the kids should be playing better. Half the time they don' t appear to knows what they are supposed to do. That's coaching.

 

[RUsojo]

We were picked last in the conference.

We were looked at as a joke of a program (per Ash).

Vegas took off our over/under future after two days! (opened under 6 wins -330)


This was to be expected. It will get better.

 

[Steve91562]

In college football it is all about recruiting. If Ash can pull in classes like the '17 class he ha snow, then Ash will be fine.

 

[JQRU91]

LOL at anyone saying this season is going as anticipated. Even if you expected 2 wins, no one can tell me they foresaw a 78-0 loss and 49-0 to a 2-7 team. How many games has RU had less than 100 passing yards? 3? That is just unfathomable. I'm not old enough to remember Schiano's first year, does anyone remember if there was at least progress? (even if the losses kept coming) More than the record, it's hard not to be discouraged by the lack of improvement through the season. I will give Ash credit for better cornerback play and less penalties (at least it seems that way), but offense, defense and special teams have been following the same pattern since week 1. As sad as it is to say, I think Ash needs to seriously consider demoting Mehringer. It has been THAT brutal.

The ridiculous thing is that if you added up our passing totals from those three games, we still fall short of a 100 yards. Also, we have more sub 100 yard passing games than we do 200+ yard passing games (2).

 

[JQRU91]

In college football it is all about recruiting. If Ash can pull in classes like the '17 class he ha snow, then Ash will be fine.

If it were all about recruiting, Lane Kiffin and Brady Hoke would still be head coaches.

 

[Veiox]

If it were all about recruiting, Lane Kiffin and Brady Hoke would still be head coaches.

Golden too

 

[willisneverrana43]

Last year it was the HC. Are you suggesting that this year it is the players?

Last year's coach recruited most of the players on last year's team and an even higher percentage of the player's on this year's team. You knew that, right?

 

[willisneverrana43]

LOL at anyone saying this season is going as anticipated. Even if you expected 2 wins, no one can tell me they foresaw a 78-0 loss and 49-0 to a 2-7 team. How many games has RU had less than 100 passing yards? 3? That is just unfathomable. I'm not old enough to remember Schiano's first year, does anyone remember if there was at least progress? (even if the losses kept coming) More than the record, it's hard not to be discouraged by the lack of improvement through the season. I will give Ash credit for better cornerback play and less penalties (at least it seems that way), but offense, defense and special teams have been following the same pattern since week 1. As sad as it is to say, I think Ash needs to seriously consider demoting Mehringer. It has been THAT brutal.

I expected butt kickings and about 3 wins.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

OP- 2004 GS team had already been showing progress and making strides , really don't remember many calling out Greg during that time.

2016 Ash is equivalent to 2001 GS with a tougher schedule.

I remember a time when it took several years to build a program, but in this day and age things have changed. Fans are impatient and school admins put you on a shorter leash. With so many grad transfers and kids coming in and out of the program it's easy to build a misleading record while you actually strengthen foundation of the program. Games like Indiana, Illinois and Minnesota you steal from better opponents due to their screw ups and our improved coaching. It helps with perception while you strengthen the foundation. Look we knew the talent level is no different than the years under Flood, but we did expect better coaching, better schemes that could make difference against the middle and bottom teams of the B1G. It's turned out the coaching has been just as accountable for losses as the players. I don't think fans are against Ash. We just thought bonehead coaching moves/decisions would be minimize.

Here is an example of a bonehead decision: Rutgers has the ball in Indiana's territory somewhere around the 35. It's third down and you need 8 yards for first. We all know the kicking game is suspect. Did Ash really try to run for a 1st down and if you fail, then punt? When I first saw it I thought he already had made up his mind Rutgers was going for it on 4th down, but punting was mind-blowing.

Bottom line, show signs of improvement to give people hope. The reason why people grew tired of Flood were games like Michigan and Ohio State.. blowouts. Now it includes games like Illinois games that shouldn't be a question. Plus Ash called out Flood last year about certain things with the team and those same things seem to be holding true for him this year.

 

[RU31trap]

Nick Saban would be hard pressed to win with this talent. It all starts with talent. Ash needs to recruit. He will succeed or fail based upon recruiting.

Wrong!! Nick Saban and his assistants would have taken the athletes on this team and created a system that would have given them a chance to win. We probably would have won 5 games to date. But your recruiting class would be literally lights out. No five year plan with Saban, as a matter of fact by 2018 we would be a one loss or two loss team.

 

[RU31trap]

I remember a time when it took several years to build a program, but in this day and age things have changed. Fans are impatient and school admins put you on a shorter leash. With so many grad transfers and kids coming in and out of the program it's easy to build a misleading record while you actually strengthen foundation of the program. Games like Indiana, Illinois and Minnesota you steal from better opponents due to their screw ups and our improved coaching. It helps with perception while you strengthen the foundation. Look we knew the talent level is no different than the years under Flood, but we did expect better coaching, better schemes that could make difference against the middle and bottom teams of the B1G. It's turned out the coaching has been just as accountable for losses as the players. I don't think fans are against Ash. We just thought bonehead coaching moves/decisions would be minimize.

Here is an example of a bonehead decision: Rutgers has the ball in Indiana's territory somewhere around the 35. It's third down and you need 8 yards for first. We all know the kicking game is suspect. Did Ash really try to run for a 1st down and if you fail, then punt? When I first saw it I thought he already had made up his mind Rutgers was going for it on 4th down, but punting was mind-blowing.

Bottom line, show signs of improvement to give people hope. The reason why people grew tired of Flood were games like Michigan and Ohio State.. blowouts. Now it includes games like Illinois games that shouldn't be a question. Plus Ash called out Flood last year about certain things with the team and those same things seem to be holding true for him this year.

Excellent post CUB. Throughout the season I've noticed at least 15 calls from the sideline that made no sense at all. At OSU he was a very small fish in a big pond, mistakes and inexperience were quickly covered up by Meyer and 5* recruits, here at Rutgers he's in the spot light. To me personally, he does not know what he's doing and a step down to Flood. Don't get me wrong Flood was not the answer, but at this very moment if we were forced to compare the two there's no comparison.

 

[willisneverrana43]

. . . Look we knew the talent level is no different than the years under Flood . . . .

Not true. If you were really paying attention to how a college team's roster turns over (approximately 20-25% per year), you'd know that the talent level is quite different. It's less. Each year of Flood recruiting brought a solid dropoff from the last in talent, all due to his recruiting. That dropoff happened again this year. For instance, how did you like all those passes to Carroo this year? With this being Flood's 4th recruited class, you are now enjoying the full blown fruits of Flood's recruiting. Other than a handful of 5th year seniors, welcome to the Flood roster. And as much as you want to grouse about coaching and micro-coaching deficiencies you can spot amid the maelstrom of huge talent gap ass kickings, none of that will set aside the fact that this is the Flood roster, the fruit of his efforts over four years. He was fired for a reason. And only this year are you getting your first chance to see an almost full view of why.

So--surprising to no one who's been watching recruiting over the last 4 years--the first full Flood roster has brought with it complete butt whippings. Now, they are more often (kind of) than in the past years, but that's no surprise given that this is so much more his roster than any other team in RU history. It's just a fact. And with butt whippings comes grousing from the fans about coaching. This always happens.

If this major talent gap is narrowed, you'll get a real view of the coaching. Of course, if it isn't narrowed, it won't matter, because Ash will be gone for that reason.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

Not true. If you were really paying attention to how a college team's roster turns over (approximately 20-25% per year), you'd know that the talent level is quite different. It's less. Each year of Flood recruiting brought a solid dropoff from the last in talent, all due to his recruiting. That dropoff happened again this year. For instance, how did you like all those passes to Carroo this year? With this being Flood's 4th recruited class, you are now enjoying the full blown fruits of Flood's recruiting. Other than a handful of 5th year seniors, welcome to the Flood roster. And as much as you want to grouse about coaching and micro-coaching deficiencies you can spot amid the maelstrom of huge talent gap ass kickings, none of that will set aside the fact that this is the Flood roster, the fruit of his efforts over four years. He was fired for a reason. And only this year are you getting your first chance to see an almost full view of why.

So--surprising to no one who's been watching recruiting over the last 4 years--the first full Flood roster has brought with it complete butt whippings. Now, they are more often (kind of) than in the past years, but that's no surprise given that this is so much more his roster than any other team in RU history. It's just a fact. And with butt whippings comes grousing from the fans about coaching. This always happens.

If this major talent gap is narrowed, you'll get a real view of the coaching. Of course, if it isn't narrowed, it won't matter, because Ash will be gone for that reason.

Actually, I have been paying attention to the roster. The bulk of the players who are seeing playing time hasn't changed. Rutgers returned the 4th or 5th most starters in the B1G from last year. The excuse was Rutgers had a lot of new starters 2015, but should be better in 2016. With improved players and better coaching the results should either match or exceed last year's results, but it hasn't. Flood recruits are going to hit hard starting next year.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Actually, I have been paying attention to the roster. The bulk of the players who are seeing playing time hasn't changed. . . . QUOTE]

With all due respect, this is vague fantasy world. Almost all last year's best players are gone or, in one case, not the same player anymore. You were aware of all this, right?:

Grant gone. Carroo, gone. Lambert, gone. Longa, gone. Gause, gone. Lumpkin (NFL camp), gone. Hester, gone more than half our games. Jones, started strong at LB who looked very good, career gone. Clayton, his back-up, gone. Hamilton, not close to what he had been pre-injury. James, gone.​

This is not to say that an ordinary roster shouldn't be able to survive this and still compete. But this is no ordinary roster. It's Flood's roster, the most Flood roster RU has ever had. There's JPO and the RBs. And then there's the rest. And we haven't even addressed the kickers and the level of athleticism on the special teams.

Look at history. A lot of great coaches took over very bad teams and things got worse before they got better, much better. Roster depletion is one of the big reasons for that. And all those coaches faced fans who grouse like you.

Now, this is no way guarantees or even suggests that Ash is the man for the job. It just makes crystal clear that that question can't be determined by this mess this year. Just accept that you are acting like many fans do with a declining program and a coach in his first year, no matter what that coach eventually turns out to be.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

With all due respect, this is vague fantasy world. Almost all last year's best players are gone or, in one case, not the same player anymore. You were aware of all this, right?:

Grant gone. Carroo, gone. Lambert, gone. Longa, gone. Gause, gone. Lumpkin (NFL camp), gone. Hester, gone more than half our games. Jones, started strong at LB who looked very good, career gone. Clayton, his back-up, gone. Hamilton, not close to what he had been pre-injury. James, gone.​

This is not to say that an ordinary roster shouldn't be able to survive this and still compete. But this is no ordinary roster. It's Flood's roster, the most Flood roster RU has ever had. There's JPO and the RBs. And then there's the rest. And we haven't even addressed the kickers and the level of athleticism on the special teams.

Look at history. A lot of great coaches took over very bad teams and things got worse before they got better, much better. Roster depletion is one of the big reasons for that. And all those coaches faced fans who grouse like you.
Now, this is no way guarantees or even suggests that Ash is the man for the job. It just makes crystal clear that that question can't be determined by this mess this year. Just accept that you are acting like many fans do with a declining program and a coach in his first year, no matter what that coach eventually turns out to be.

I'm done with this thread. This is about a p*ssing contest. I really do understand this game as a player, as a coach, as someone who sent players to Rutgers, to covering it for another site. I'm most upset in how Ash trashed Flood and not I'm not a Flood lover. I recall Ash calling Flood out about how the team quit and lacks this or that. Somehow history is repeating itself and Ash is side stepping it. I hear more about what the players are not doing and not what the staff can do to correct it. I can deal with not winning as we rebuild, but I can't deal with passing the buck to young men as the reason why things are getting worse. The whole selling point with Ash was an upgrade in coaching which should lead to fewer blowouts. Instead, there are more and the toss up games aren't even that anymore.

 

[mildone]

Throughout the season I've noticed at least 15 calls from the sideline that made no sense at all.

There were some play calls I scratched my head over this season. But I'd say there are play calls I scratch my head over in 90% of the football games, college or pro, I've ever watched, including games that teams win.

But I recognize that I'm not a football expert of any kind and I am unqualified to make such a strong assertion about how most of those plays made no sense at all. Now and then, it's clear a coach makes an unarguable mistake - one even the coach would admit later. It happens because coaches are human and things on the field can move really fast.

But you seem really certain that all fifteen of those calls were nonsensical. So how about describing for us, using coaching terminology, what those fifteen bad play calls were, what was supposed to happen (in detail - player by player) had it gone according to plan, why it didn't go to plan and which players blew their responsibility on each of the plays.

While you're at it, maybe you could tell us what play you would've called that would've been assured of being perfectly executed by all eleven players on the field at the time. And also explain to us how the opposing eleven players abilities and execution was irrelevant.

And please don't respond with superficial or abstract (and therefore mostly meaningless) comments like how we should never have done this or that in some situation. Tell us why in football details. Tell us, player by player, that show us that you actually know what you're talking about.

I mean, you are making these strong, almost insulting assertions about the coaching. So it seems fair to challenge those assertions and see if you are able to back them up with some substance. Could be fun for you and you'd certain gain some credibility as a knowledgeable contributor.

 

[mildone]

I'm done with this thread. This is about a p*ssing contest. I really do understand this game as a player, as a coach, as someone who sent players to Rutgers, to covering it for another site. I'm most upset in how Ash trashed Flood and not I'm not a Flood lover. I recall Ash calling Flood out about how the team quit and lacks this or that. Somehow history is repeating itself and Ash is side stepping it. I hear more about what the players are not doing and not what the staff can do to correct it. I can deal with not winning as we rebuild, but I can't deal with passing the buck to young men as the reason why things are getting worse. The whole selling point with Ash was an upgrade in coaching which should lead to fewer blowouts. Instead, there are more and the toss up games aren't even that anymore.

I don't understand your position on this. Ash has repeatedly taken responsibility for things. I think in almost every post-game press conference, he's said he needs to do a better job.

How is that passing the buck in any way?

I agree that he did subtly trash Flood and I bet if you asked him about it in private, he'd probably tell you it wasn't his intent and that he feels bad about having done it. But most good coaches I know in any sport have enough of an ego to think they can do better than the last guy. In fact, I'm not sure I'd hire a coach that didn't have at least that much self-confidence.