Strategy question/thought

[Greene Rice FIG]

Are we better with Sanders without a high screen?

The last possession of the 1st half (actually an important play) Sanders had the ball with the clock without a screen and he drove to the basket and scored without a big converging.

Got me thinking why set a screen for Corey?

I believe Corey has better rhythm on his jump shot going left and obviously he is better beating defenders going right. Without a screen he has more space to do either. Obviously setting the high screen takes the opposing 5 out of the paint AND it allows a pick and roll situation. I am just not sure the screener has ever been a great option for us.

Thoughts?

 

[MadRU]

He hit a very tough shot. The defender knew he was going right. Corey’s athletic ability got him the shot, but it was not an easy shot where he beat his man.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

correct. i just thought there was more room and there didn't end up being a big to help.

 

[goru7]

Are we better with Sanders without a high screen?

The last possession of the 1st half (actually an important play) Sanders had the ball with the clock without a screen and he drove to the basket and scored without a big converging.

Got me thinking why set a screen for Corey?

I believe Corey has better rhythm on his jump shot going left and obviously he is better beating defenders going right. Without a screen he has more space to do either. Obviously setting the high screen takes the opposing 5 out of the paint AND it allows a pick and roll situation. I am just not sure the screener has ever been a great option for us.

Thoughts?

I have posted recently that our spacing has to be better and I would play more of a 2 man game, with either Corey and Geo as the point guards that can break down their men, with Deshawn, Duke, or Sa as the screener. The only problem is that we are a real bad screen and roll team. Meaning our guards do not wait until the Big is set, plus our bigs do not roll quick enough. If we had a high flying 4or 5 then Corey would just lob it on the roll for a dunk but we don’t.
Therefore, I think we space more and let Corey and Geo orchestrate and hit the cutters or the guys that are ready to catch and shoot, and crash the boards. Both Corey and Geo are tall and\or athletic enough to get their mid range jumper as much as possible .
Whatever we do, get rid of the weave and get the bigs on the block once in a while and give them the ball and let them shoot .

 

[higgins3]

Probably use a mix.

Pros to letting Sanders operate is that he is extremely athletic, and could do what you said.
Cons- the roll hasn't really been utilized this year, and it pulls a rebounder away from the basket. I still think that extra bit of space for Sanders from the pick allows him to get better shots that have a little more space.

 

[RU MAN]

Are we better with Sanders without a high screen?

The last possession of the 1st half (actually an important play) Sanders had the ball with the clock without a screen and he drove to the basket and scored without a big converging.

Got me thinking why set a screen for Corey?

I believe Corey has better rhythm on his jump shot going left and obviously he is better beating defenders going right. Without a screen he has more space to do either. Obviously setting the high screen takes the opposing 5 out of the paint AND it allows a pick and roll situation. I am just not sure the screener has ever been a great option for us.

Thoughts?

Green, that was a classic iso play. I agree with you that Corey doesn't need a high screen. What Corey needs to do in the future is learn how to do the same thing, but drive with his left hand and go up with his left hand. Yes, he's really good on the dribble drive, but that was a very tough layup he made at the end of the first half. And guards around the league know he drives mostly to his right.

 

[Antnee79]

Corey was able to beat the Wisky guards off the dribble and create his own space on the pull up Js; will not be so easy against the betters guards in the conference. Hate the weave; all it does is puts the ball in Corey or Geo's hands with 10 sec or less having to create/force a shot. Would love to see more passes into the post to create kick-outs or hit cutters to the rim.

 

[RU MAN]

Corey was able to beat the Wisky guards off the dribble and create his own space on the pull up Js; will not be so easy against the betters guards in the conference. Hate the weave; all it does is puts the ball in Corey or Geo's hands with 10 sec or less having to create/force a shot. Would love to see more passes into the post to create kick-outs or hit cutters to the rim.

I agree, but I don't think Pikiell has the confidence yet with who he has in the high or low post. I think going forward we'll start to see more of that as better players come into the program.

 

[soundcrib]

Agreed. 1-4 Georgetown Iverson set for Corey.

 

[Russ Wood]

Are we better with Sanders without a high screen?

The last possession of the 1st half (actually an important play) Sanders had the ball with the clock without a screen and he drove to the basket and scored without a big converging.

Got me thinking why set a screen for Corey?

I believe Corey has better rhythm on his jump shot going left and obviously he is better beating defenders going right. Without a screen he has more space to do either. Obviously setting the high screen takes the opposing 5 out of the paint AND it allows a pick and roll situation. I am just not sure the screener has ever been a great option for us.

Thoughts?

I watched that play. The Wisconsin big man couldn't come and help on Sanders because Eugene dragged him from the right elbow across the paint to the left block. The Wisconsin player actually turned his back on Sanders, which was kinda dumb since he had the ball. Wisconsin forward Aaron Moesch had sagged off of Freeman on the left side of the lane and correctly guessed Sanders was not going to drive and kick. But Moesch was too slow to react and arrived too late to help his teammate that Sanders scored over.

You probably know this, but a common misconception is that a high ball screen is intended to get the ball handler open to score. Sometimes that is exactly what it is. Sometimes teams are running a roll and replace action designed to get the defense to move (and hopefully over-help) so that the replace man is open for a shot or a pass inside to the roll man.

Sometimes teams look like they are about to run a high ball screen, then suddenly the big man doesn't set the screen and instead slips to receive a pass for an open shot. It works well if the defense usually switches on ball screens. SMU does this with 6-foot-9, 235-pound Ethan Chargois and it works very well for them. Chargois is shooting 43.9 percent on 3FGs and many of them are slips.

 

[SirScarlet]

I watched that play. The Wisconsin big man couldn't come and help on Sanders because Eugene dragged him from the right elbow across the paint to the left block. The Wisconsin player actually turned his back on Sanders, which was kinda dumb since he had the ball. Wisconsin forward Aaron Moesch had sagged off of Freeman on the left side of the lane and correctly guessed Sanders was not going to drive and kick. But Moesch was too slow to react and arrived too late to help his teammate that Sanders scored over.

You probably know this, but a common misconception is that a high ball screen is intended to get the ball handler open to score. Sometimes that is exactly what it is. Sometimes teams are running a roll and replace action designed to get the defense to move (and hopefully over-help) so that the replace man is open for a shot or a pass inside to the roll man.

Sometimes teams look like they are about to run a high ball screen, then suddenly the big man doesn't set the screen and instead slips to receive a pass for an open shot. It works well if the defense usually switches on ball screens. SMU does this with 6-foot-9, 235-pound Ethan Chargois and it works very well for them. Chargois is shooting 43.9 percent on 3FGs and many of them are slips.

Great stuff, Russ. Thanks!

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Greene

That absolutely kills the floor spacing and really allows double help anything closer than a step inside the foul line

Only helps if the play IS the jumper

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I hear you. Unless you have 4 shooters there should always be help if Corey beats his man.

I just think Corey's mid range jumper is effective when going left. With a screen to either side it seems someone is in the way.

Bottom line we must do a better job getting the screener in the offense OR getting more out of the other 3 on the court

 

[Scarlet83]

. Yes, he's really good on the dribble drive, but that was a very tough layup he made at the end of the first half.

It was such a very tough layup, that it wasn’t a layup! I think he took that shot from 10 feet away. The defender knew Corey was going right, the defender played him hard that way, and Corey kept going more right, until he was on a tough angle, ten feet away. So glad he made that tough banker.

 

[RU MAN]

It was such a very tough layup, that it wasn’t a layup! I think he took that shot from 10 feet away. The defender knew Corey was going right, the defender played him hard that way, and Corey kept going more right, until he was on a tough angle, ten feet away. So glad he made that tough banker.

Very true, but it was a layup, even that far away. Corey in some ways has perfected that move. I would like to see him develop a stronger move to the basket from the left side and go up with his left hand. That would make him unpredictable.

 

[Scarlet83]

Very true, but it was a layup, even that far away. Corey in some ways has perfected that move. I would like to see him develop a stronger move to the basket from the left side and go up with his left hand. That would make him unpredictable.

Not arguing, but I wonder how far out is a running jumper that is banked in, not a layup? I get it, he wanted to be closer, with good D against him, Corey ended up taking the shot from farther away, but he still used a layup shot technique. If he does the same thing from 15 feet away, is that really still a layup? 18 feet?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The whole point I was making is that, I believe, Corey's best mid range shot is when he goes right and crosses over and hits a jump shot after a dribble or 2 going left.

 

[RU MAN]

Not arguing, but I wonder how far out is a running jumper that is banked in, not a layup? I get it, he wanted to be closer, with good D against him, Corey ended up taking the shot from farther away, but he still used a layup shot technique. If he does the same thing from 15 feet away, is that really still a layup? 18 feet?

No of course not. To me if he throws it up from that far out, it's either a really lucky shot, but more of a wtf? moment. LOL!

 

[littlenis5]

I tend to agree that it seems that a screen and roll with any big other than Eugene causes almost no reaction from the defense. We might be better off if the Big stood on the baseline ready to carve out space for offensive rebounds or a catch and dunk of the guards get total penetration into the paint.

Might be interesting to use Mike Williams or Geo as a screener just to mix it up a bit. Their defenders probably aren’t used to defending the screener and could cause some miscommunication and scrambling, leading to open threes or easy layups.