The Cult Is Alive and Well ...SMH
- Thread starter AreYouNUTS
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First of all where did you see me knocking the Nit FB team in this thread, I replied to a Penn St issue that happened far before Franklin was even hired by Penn St.
Get a grip on your attack cat mode where Penn St is concerned .
I'll say this like you: "My God Trap" can't anyone say something about Penn St, that you don't like, without you finding something to bash Rutgers about.
As for Penn St in the playoffs, if you can forget about looking for posts in all the threads dissing the Nits and occasionally read posts that are kind of favorable towards, you would find out I feel Penn St , if it wins tonight, deserves a spot in the playoffs over Ohio St and Michigan because they are the B1G Title holder.
So basically what you are saying is that human beings ability to think rationally and question things like signs on national TV that bring us all back to abhorrent incidents against children should be governed by how well the team they root for performs on the field. I don't expect you to understand what I just typed because you continually show how much of a moron you are on these boards with each and every post.
I understand your frustration. I just refuse to hate, it takes too much energy and life is too short.
Guaranteed a playoff spot? Must be some good stuff your way! 49-10 straight up. PSU would have to win by about 40 in order for there to be a remote chance of getting in.
Knowing you're program is inferior is not an inferiority complex. Keeping the Shame public on a University and community does not indicate an inferiority complex either.
If they show come sorrow and act like humans about the crimes they all had a part in covering up and supporting and I'll let them start the healing process. Short of that you will always here their crimes mentioned where I go.
I hope you feel good about being a person who would rather move on from the child rape than help it be kept in the public eye and dealt with.
So if no one had the authority to punish Pedd State shouldn't you guys have done it internally?
Not fight so hard for the 409, the statue and try to whitewash the crimes? SMH.
I wonder if you'd feel the same if it were your kids in the shower - or is it just proof you prefer football too like the rest of The Cult.
I'm not fighting for any of those things as I couldn't care less about any of them.
Yes, I'm sure Penn State would shut down a $60M per year entity. Shoot, your household can't even stop yourself from attending games at Penn State despite your sickness for our university and there isn't even any money in it for you.
I get what your saying. But how many time can Jerry Sandusky get convicted? How many times can we verbally blast Penn State for something that happened 6 years ago.
Every time it comes up as long as they don't show shame and regret for what they enabled.
It didn't happen 6 years ago. They got caught 6 years ago. It happened over DECADES.
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Actually it was a lot longer ago than 6 years.
NY Times
Joe Paterno Knew of Sandusky Abuse in 1976, According to Court Testimony
They don't actually and definitely not on the personal level. They spend a fair amount of time talking the other one up outside of the game based on my observations since living here in the midwest. Plenty of Buckeyes were arguing that Michigan should be in the playoff too. There's plenty of respect between them and the bashing they do is mostly good natured although they definitely don't like each other.
There's no respect in this situation (not asking you to have any or saying you should) and the bashing is mostly vile. I'm not opening up that can of worms. Just saying no great athletics rivalry will ever develop with those sorts of insults and negativity coming so strongly from one side.
I grew up 30 minutes from Rutgers, would be fun to be able to have some good natured ribbing back and forth about what's happening on the field.
Dude, if penn state didn't make money for the NCAA, they would have received the death penalty. It's pathetic people think this.
You do hate - you hate Rutgers. Some of us on here realize now that you are a 100% certifiable Penn State troll. Quit saying "we" when referring to Rutgers, and "they" when referring to the Pedophiles.
There's a very, very, very small handful or two of schools that would NOT have received the death penalty and PSU is one of them. The worst part is, from every account, it was on the table, but they took long-term sanctions instead, THEN those sanctions got chopped to bits just a couple of years later. The NCAA pussed-out in the biggest of ways.
That being said, I wish this was a more "civil" rivalry, but due to a # of factors we've discuss incessantly, it's not right now. Hopefully, and I mean this, that changes over time. I also wish I hadn't started this thread. My bad, fellas, my bad.
Exactly. The administration that replaced the enablers has done pretty well for itself, although some of those sanctions should have been kept. Calling the current team "pedophiles" is embarrassing. Hell, calling the team back then "pedophiles" is absurd to the point of embarrassment. What the fans are is properly called "enablers" who are "in deep denial." And yes, those NCAA signs show they still just don't get it.
The cult is more about Paterno than anything else. I don't mind people focusing on football; it's not seeing the truth about him vis-a-vis Sandusky that pisses off people and makes them root for that team to go 0-13 in a 12-game season. I never, ever want our fans to be so into Rutgers football that they lose sight of reality. (Mind you, some never really had it anyway. But at least they're fun and (mostly) harmless.)
Where does anyone get 6 years from, anyway? You're right about it happening over decades. And the scandal broke in November 2011. I'm no math major, but I think that's 5 years.
RUtrap ... if you insist on posting, can you please get facts correct, once in a while at least?
Kjb ... you're embarrassing yourself. I'd say you're embarrassing your university, but Penn State is pretty much beyond being embarrassed by anything.
Yes, It's not just about Sandusky or Pedophilia. That is what the Cult wants the world to think.
They are paying a $2.4 million fine for Cleary violations. Only $27,500 is about the child rape. The rest is Paterno was running an out of control program with no institutional control. The NCAA whiffed. It was a rotten program for years without Jerry's Campus Shower Room of Horror.
U.S. Department of Education Levies Historic Fine Against Penn State Over Handling of Sexual Misconduct Incidents
- Finding #1: Clery Act violations related to the Sandusky matter (proposed fine: $27,500).
- Finding #2: Lack of administrative capability as a result of the University’s substantial failures to comply with the Clery Act and the Drug-Free Schools and Communities Act throughout the review period, including insufficient training, support, and resources to ensure compliance (proposed fine: $27,500).
- Finding #3: Omitted and/or inadequate annual security report and annual fire safety report policy statements (proposed fine: $37,500).
- Finding #4: Failure to issue timely warnings in accordance with federal regulations.
- Finding #5: Failure to properly classify reported incidents and disclose crime statistics from 2008-2011 (proposed fine: $2,167,500).
- Finding #6: Failure to establish an adequate system for collecting crime statistics from all required sources (proposed fine: $27,500).
- Finding #7: Failure to maintain an accurate and complete daily crime log.
- Finding #8: Reporting discrepancies in crime statistics published in the annual security report and those reported to the department’s campus crime statistics database (proposed fine: $27,500).
- Finding #9: Failure to publish and distribute an annual security report in accordance with federal regulations (proposed fine: $27,500).
- Finding #10: Failure to notify prospective students and employees of the availability of the annual security report and annual fire safety report (proposed fine: $27,500).
- Finding #11: Failure to comply with the Drug-Free Schools and Communities Act (proposed fine: $27,500).
By the way, what precisely is the statute of limitations on the JS stuff? Is it 10 years? 15? 20? Just curious.
Luckily the recruits don't seem to care.
Luckily the recruits don't seem to care.
I've yet to see anything that suggests PSU didn't publish a daily crime log to protect football players. Their behavior in the community certainly wasn't hidden; the ESPN piece from a few years back is well-known, for example. The intent of the Clery Act isn't to catalog crimes committed by student-athletes, but any crime on campus. You can see the daily crime log on Penn State's Clery web site now. Lots of possession of a small amount of pot and underage drinking.
If you're specifically referring to the Sandusky incident, and how it should have appeared, it's still unclear if C/S/S believed McQueary reported a "crime" to them. More important as it relates here, the Clery Act was passed in 1990, long before 2001, meaning PSU's administrative shortcomings in this case were just that, and likely not some great plan to conceal crimes committed by student-athletes and/or coaches.
Penn State made a lot of mistakes, there's no question about that, but tying the Clery Act violations as a whole to Sandusky/football is a stretch. Again, no excuses because you need to worry about your own house first and foremost, but I'd venture a guess that PSU wasn't the only university lagging on full Clery Act implementation.
As far as the stuff that happens in downtown State College after a big football game, or big world event in general, the vast majority of damage is caused by a very small minority of idiots. Most people are just gathering because they're 18-22 years old, and that's the type of thing people that age like to do in celebration. Unfortunately, alcohol and adrenaline can cause a small handful of people to rip up a street light or throw a rock through a window. I'd like to think intelligent adults realize that's the case at 99% of these "riots," regardless of the campus on which they occur.
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Happy Valley is certainly not alone in running afoul of Clery. But don't fall for the "Everybody is Doing it" lie. This article from 2014 shows 21 schools paying fines since 2000.
It also says frequently the schools get the fine reduced. Yet Penn State is paying in full. What does that tell you?
$2.4 Million is by far the highest penalty ever. The next highest was $350,000 by Eastern Michigan in 2008.
Read the DOE statement or some of the articles linked. Much of this goes right back to Paterno shielding players from criminal liability. This wasn't just about bad paperwork.
It also says frequently the schools get the fine reduced. Yet Penn State is paying in full. What does that tell you?
$2.4 Million is by far the highest penalty ever. The next highest was $350,000 by Eastern Michigan in 2008.
Read the DOE statement or some of the articles linked. Much of this goes right back to Paterno shielding players from criminal liability. This wasn't just about bad paperwork.
As a Penn State fan, I am ashamed. Ashamed that we didn't put up more than 39 points on your program. The smartest decision that Barkley ever made was decommitting from Rutgers and choosing Penn State.
How does it feel knowing the only reason your school is in the Big Ten is because of Joe Paterno. FACT
How does it feel knowing the only reason your school is in the Big Ten is because of Joe Paterno. FACT
I've read the statement, and I just read it again.
It mentions Sandusky only as a trigger for the investigation and cites the Sandusky scandal only as the first violation.
Beyond that there is no mention of football, or that the university chose to fun afoul of the Clery Act to protect football players.
If you have evidence that suggests otherwise, I would love to see it.
It bears repeating: I am not excusing Penn State's lack of compliance here; valuable information on crimes was not made available to students, and that's a problem. But the link between these fines and Sandusky/Paterno/football has been extremely overstated.
From the article linked earlier that quotes from the non-Sandusky portion of the DOE Report:
In its report, the department also “identified numerous instances where cultural and climate factors in the football program adversely affected campus safety operations, primarily involving the student conduct process.” University officials told the department’s investigators that there was “a discernible sense among some athletes that the rules did not apply to them equally,” and that Paterno “repeatedly resisted attempts” to discipline his athletes through the typical student conduct process.
The department described the program as though it had “walls built up around” it.
“What ensued was an overlong and dysfunctional standoff between the football program and student affairs officials with the president positioned somewhere between the two sides,” the department stated. “Some members of the football team, aware of the conflicts, took the program’s attitude toward the student conduct process as license to break the rules.”
The department said its investigation "showed that some victims were afraid to come forward if the assailant was a Penn State athlete," and that some who did come forward "were subjected to threats or other pleas" to drop the charges. "In both cases," the department stated, "the validity of Penn State’s crime statistics, a key component of the disclosures required by the Clery Act, were adversely affected." In addition, the report said football administrators kept a list of prominent local lawyers to provide to football players -- but not to other students -- who were facing disciplinary actions.
In 2002, a Penn State football player was accused of sexual assault and was suspended for two semesters. Unbeknownst to the student conduct officials who suspended the student, the player was still allowed to travel with the team and play in the Capital One Bowl that year. In numerous other cases, “athletic department and football program officials questioned the nature or severity of sanctions imposed for various offenses.”
In 2007, a group of football players allegedly broke into an apartment to confront a man who had reportedly disrespected a teammate. Paterno, through his personal assistant, sent an email to the president and athletic director, saying, “I want to make sure everyone understands that the discipline of the players involved will be handled by me as soon as I am comfortable that I understand all the facts.” Later, when one of the players failed to appear for a meeting about the incident with a student conduct official, the athlete said that Paterno had told his players that if they visited the student conduct office, they would be “thrown off the team.”
In 2009, another football player was accused of sexual assault. When he reported to the student conduct office to discuss the incident, according to the department report, his first question was, “Does football know I’m here?”
Inside Higher Education
Historic Fine for Penn State
US Department of Education - Full Report
Pennsylvania State University Campus Crime Final Program Review Determination
We're sort of getting off track here a little bit, because reports of how some people perceived the environment isn't the same thing as violations of the Clery Act serving as the basis for a large portion of the overall fine, which was the initial point I disagreed with and argued against.
Paterno's desire to control the punishment for his players has been talked about many times on this board and elsewhere. Do I completely agree with that? No. Do I think he handled every incident correctly? Of course not. How could anyone? We'll never come to a complete agreement on this, but keeping things tied to the Clery Act talk, disagreeing with Student Affairs on the appropriate punishments for players is not the same thing as hiding crimes intentionally in violation of the Clery Act.
The DOE report also stops short of accusing Paterno of that very thing, of interfering in investigations or giving players a "pass." A lot of this goes back to the entire Triponey episode and whether the university should be able to impose team suspensions, which isn't worth getting into. Would it suspend someone from participating in student organizations and activities unrelated to athletics, or would that organization/advisor be able to make those choices? I don't know the correct answer, but it's a fundamental question that people have varying opinions on. Ultimately, some semantics are at play here, of course, and how you interpret various things is as well. People will come down on both sides and neither can convince the other they are right/wrong.
PSU isn't perfect. Never was. Never will be. Neither will any other university or football program. My only point was to correct the fact that the vast, vast majority of the Clery Act fine was completely unrelated to the football program. Most of the instances cited in the findings, as far as how crimes were classified or whether they were reported at all, involve instances with regular students, so clearly the university didn't have its act together, regardless of what was happening in the football program. If you decide to extrapolate a few anecdotes about how football players were punished, however, into having a major impact on how the university reported crimes as a whole, that's your right.
We can just agree to disagree.
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Right on track. You said it's not there, I show you where it is. Sorry if pointing out facts disturbs your attempt to spin away from them.
What you think doesn't really matter. Federal law says you can't do what PSU did to protect the football program and Paterno. Even Baron is admitting that.
My standard is way below perfection. After years of hearing from the Paterno acolytes clap trap about "Success with Honor", "Penn Sate is a special program", "JoePa is not like other mercenary coaches", I'll settle for stopping with the hypocrisy about a past that was a lie all along.
Only a PSU fan would ask when it's okay to forget about the systemic, institutional rape of children.
Also, only PSU fans would spend hours arguing about how the school/team/coaches were **somehow technically, legally-speaking** on the right side of law and morality, not realizing that every character they devote to the topic only solidifies the world's view of a disgusting program/fanbase that values football above the welfare of children.
Seriously, if something a fraction this horrific happened at Rutgers, the last thing in the world I'd do is go onto other teams boards and defend it, years later. If I didn't abandon Rutgers all together, I'd hope and will for the world to move on, instead of ensuring that it didn't. No matter what legalese or technicality you think applies, you lost the PR battle long ago - HARD.
So might want to stop drawing attention to the fact that your school allowed decades-long child rape to happen, paying a sociopathic rapist millions while he assaulted children on school grounds - crimes so horrible even the worst criminals in the world have no tolerance. That's the story - not, the NCAA overstepped its jurisdiction and PSU had to endure a couple of subpar seasons on a football field.
To be fair, Penn State was always a "special" program, just in a very different way.
Well maybe the statute of limitations should be the same length of time that Penn St started paying the children that were victims of sexual abuse that PSU was responsible for until the cover up was exposed.
But, in my opinion, the statute of limitations shouldn't end until the cult admits that Paterno knew and was a major factor in the coverup.
As for recruits not caring , you're right, but that doesn't absolve Penn St's leadership ( including it's HC) for making their football program more important to them then protecting children from Penn St's child molesting Coach Emeritus
But, but, but...Mighty Joe told someone so he is in the clear and now it's the law so it's all good.
