The New Brunswick frozen yogurt wars end with a thud

[Jonny S]

Red Mango on Albany has closed up shop after nearly two years. Let's tally the other casualties:
Let's Yo! on GeorgeCups in the Ferren Mall (which is getting demolished, but it wasn't doing so great otherwise)Top It, which had the indignity of lasting for about a month on Easton, a block from Truly Yogurt
Leaving once again, only the venerable Truly (formerly Fruity) Yogurt on Easton left standing. Location was really the problem for all of these beyond oversaturation. No foot traffic for Red Mango, Top It was too close to Truly Yogurt, and who wants to go to the Ferren Mall? There was also one where LA Bagel is for about two seconds a few years back, and that might have been a promising spot on upper Easton.

In other news, it looks like The Counter is FINALLY going to open soon next to the World of Beer. I saw them holding an info session for potential workers in there tonight. Garden Steak is also being replaced by a vegan/organic place, which could be interesting. There are still a ton of vacancies on George.

As an aside, after 11-years I am about to leave the New Brunswick area for North Jersey. Mostly for commuting reasons, but it would have been a much harder decision if NB had better/cheaper housing stock, and a legitimate supermarket. As I'm pretty much in DEVCO's demo (late 20s, good job) and tried really hard to make it work, that isn't the greatest sign.

 

[retired711]

Although I don't live near New Brunswick, I can understand your frustrations. There is just not enough to hold young professionals to NB once the commute gets lengthy. I hope you will stay active on this board.

 

[NotInRHouse]

NB isn't in a position to compete with JC/Hoboken and it probably will never be. It's not across the river from NYC with 24/7 transportation.

NB is supposed to be (aside from a college town) an alternative to Morristown, maybe Princeton or Red Bank (I think NB has better nightlife and NYC access than both) or people just throwing in the towel moving to the burbs. Pretty sure all of those do have a supermarket, and I know Morristown at least has much more good and affordable housing options.

I think a lot of frozen yogurt places are closing everywhere. The trend is kind of of over.

 

[Upstream]

If you are in your 20s and work in NYC, there is really no reason to live in NB vs Hoboken/JC. If you are in your 20s and work in Middlesex/Somerset counties, then living in NB could be appealing.

 

[retired711]

Maybe you're underestimating NB. There are people, particularly the kind of sophisticated people who work in NYC, who, I would think, would enjoy living in a college town. And an hour commute doesn't strike me as horrible by New York standards. But somehow NB doesn't have the basics (like a good supermarket) or the ambiance to pull that off.

 

[sct1111]

There is now a frozen yogurt place on Livingston under the new apartments which is pretty popular. Truly Yogurt has the best location by far on College Ave for the college kids. It was a favorite for sure when I was on campus a few years ago.

Honestly, when I was a student a few years ago college kids rarely traveled down George street passed the starbucks and the chipotle. This is probably the reason why the red mango didn't make it. After that area it gets kind of shady. I've had multiple crime alerts about people getting beat up and mugged in broad daylight near Rockoff. It's a shame because I could really see George street as a Hobokenesque location in the future. Devco's next project should be to revitalize the area of George Street between Douglass and College Ave so that students will want to live there. I'm talking shops, trendy bars, restaurants etc. There is already pieces of this, it's just not fully done. It was just weird to travel from Cook/Douglass in the EE through a ghetto to get to College Ave when they are about a mile apart. They need George Street to be a nice location that joins the two NB campuses.

If you really want NB to be a place where young adults want to live like Hoboken or Red Bank they need to focus on heavily gentrifying the area around the train station starting with George Street.

 

[Jonny S]

Red Mango was actually past Rafferty's on Albany Street.

I do work in NJ. And I understand what the city and DEVCO would probably say, the market's not there for the level of housing that we need, etc... I like NB a lot and am still very much rooting for it. I could even come back to the area, although that would be tough as I'm about to be aging out of the demo. It's a viable option. Middlesex has good employer options, but it needs more. NB needs another anchor company besides J&J.
This post was edited on 12/12 1:11 AM by Jonny S

 

[RUskoolie]

As a resident, New Brunswick could use two things:

A legit grocery store (I know Stop n Shop is in Somerset but it is such a rip off).
A Lowes/Home Depot for all the landlords and maintenance people that are working in the city on a daily basis (the closest ones are all 15 minutes away).

 

[DosCoreys]

As someone who lives and works in NB, I echo a lot of Jonny S' sentiments. The housing stock leaves something to be desired and they really need to get moving on getting a supermarket back into Wellness Plaza. Also that area around the train station (and the station itself) just needs a major overhaul, hopefully the project on the Ferren site will go a long way toward that. And they really do need to snag a large, noteworthy company to fill some of that new office space.

I would say George St. feels pretty safe until you get past the Bravo. That stretch has had some good additions over the last few years, w/ George St. Ale House, World of Beer, etc., and there is much more activity there at night than there used to be.

Hopefully this "if you build it, they will come" approach being taken with the new apartment complexes being built on Somerset and Neilson, the Ferren site project, etc. will have some success. In any event NB has made great strides in the past ten years or so and it's pretty remarkable that it has come as far as it has.

This post was edited on 12/12 10:32 AM by DosCoreys

 

[NotInRHouse]

Originally posted by camdenlawprof:
Maybe you're underestimating NB. There are people, particularly the kind of sophisticated people who work in NYC, who, I would think, would enjoy living in a college town. And an hour commute doesn't strike me as horrible by New York standards. But somehow NB doesn't have the basics (like a good supermarket) or the ambiance to pull that off.

Sure. But in Hoboken/JC, you're two stops from NYU and Cooper Union. Stevens is in Hoboken, JC has two colleges, more commuter oriented although that is starting to change at St. Peter's.

The other thing you have to remember is- there is an express train between NYC and NB that I think is something like 52-54 minutes...however, you still have a walk on both ends unless you live in the Vue and work right by Penn Station. If you live in Riverwatch and work on the East Side, it's a schlep. It will certainly work for some people, but it's not universal. OTOH, if you work in Newark, it might make some more sense.

The lure I think is more for people who work somewhere between Princeton and Morristown, where there are plenty of high paying jobs but also a lot of blandish suburbia or decayed downtowns- with NB being the odd man between those two.

I generally agree with the other comments and have emphasized that the area between Douglass and Rockoff is a big obstacle.

 

[e5fdny]

Originally posted by RUskoolie:
As a resident, New Brunswick could use two things:

A legit grocery store (I know Stop n Shop is in Somerset but it is such a rip off).
A Lowes/Home Depot for all the landlords and maintenance people that are working in the city on a daily basis (the closest ones are all 15 minutes away).

Or at least a Lowe's Express. I use this one on occasion.

And I know Home Depot has an urban model too. There is smaller one on SI that could be the model for one in NB.

 

[Korbermeister]

Originally posted by sct1111:
There is now a frozen yogurt place on Livingston under the new apartments which is pretty popular. Truly Yogurt has the best location by far on College Ave for the college kids. It was a favorite for sure when I was on campus a few years ago.

Honestly, when I was a student a few years ago college kids rarely traveled down George street passed the starbucks and the chipotle. This is probably the reason why the red mango didn't make it. After that area it gets kind of shady. I've had multiple crime alerts about people getting beat up and mugged in broad daylight near Rockoff. It's a shame because I could really see George street as a Hobokenesque location in the future. Devco's next project should be to revitalize the area of George Street between Douglass and College Ave so that students will want to live there. I'm talking shops, trendy bars, restaurants etc. There is already pieces of this, it's just not fully done. It was just weird to travel from Cook/Douglass in the EE through a ghetto to get to College Ave when they are about a mile apart. They need George Street to be a nice location that joins the two NB campuses.

If you really want NB to be a place where young adults want to live like Hoboken or Red Bank they need to focus on heavily gentrifying the area around the train station starting with George Street.

Everything is relative (i myself first experienced george st. in the late 80's & 90s) but George st. from New to Commercial sts. is hardly a ghetto unless you've never actually been to or seen a ghetto. With the construction of the new housing on Liberty & Neilson sts., the redevelopment of the Ferren Deck site, the completion of the somerset st. highrise, a new financial services/bank on the corner of george & bayard sts., the opening of The Counter previously mentioned, new restaurant opening in place of Tula on easton ave., the construction of the new dorms on college ave, new deck/offices being constructed on little albany st and a new entrance and more beds for RWJ to begin construction on french st, a new food store in the works to replace the mediocre Fresh Grocer, i see positive things ahead for the Hub City

 

[derleider]

Originally posted by sct1111:
There is now a frozen yogurt place on Livingston under the new apartments which is pretty popular. Truly Yogurt has the best location by far on College Ave for the college kids. It was a favorite for sure when I was on campus a few years ago.

Honestly, when I was a student a few years ago college kids rarely traveled down George street passed the starbucks and the chipotle. This is probably the reason why the red mango didn't make it. After that area it gets kind of shady. I've had multiple crime alerts about people getting beat up and mugged in broad daylight near Rockoff. It's a shame because I could really see George street as a Hobokenesque location in the future. Devco's next project should be to revitalize the area of George Street between Douglass and College Ave so that students will want to live there. I'm talking shops, trendy bars, restaurants etc. There is already pieces of this, it's just not fully done. It was just weird to travel from Cook/Douglass in the EE through a ghetto to get to College Ave when they are about a mile apart. They need George Street to be a nice location that joins the two NB campuses.

If you really want NB to be a place where young adults want to live like Hoboken or Red Bank they need to focus on heavily gentrifying the area around the train station starting with George Street.

But they wont want to live there. Why would they.

If most of your classes are on CA, then you will want to live near there. IF most of your classes are on Cook, then you would want to live there. Its hard to come up with a reason to want to live in between. You have classes on Cook, but want to party on CA. Still makes more sense to live near one place and have to take a bus to the other, than live in between and have to take a bus to both.

Its too far from both to get reliable traffic from college students.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I don't think anyone would argue against NB being a city on the rise in most ways. It would be a bad argument. Heck, Atlantic City says it's a model for them.

The problem is that NB still has in my opinion, two serious problems. One, crime persistent in the nicer parts of town, and two, some areas that are aesthetically very bad like that part of George Street, that are crucial for the overall development of the downtown.

Yeah, we all know ghettos living in this part of the country. The average NJ resident probably lives not too far from one and I'm sure almost all 21 counties have one really hardluck urban area. But, an RU applicant or yuppie is probably not looking for that in making their decision on where to spend 4 years or a 12 year lease. And it's certainly avoidable for many NJ families. In my mind, it's one of the biggest obstacles faced by RU. For all the advantages we have over TTFP and UDel which in my mind significantly outweigh this issue- they don't have a ghetto, they don't have news reports about the crime from that ghetto creeping outwards into the murder of a former student.

You can go the length of the area from the southernmost point in Downtown Jersey City up through Hoboken into Weehawken or maybe even West New York and you will not see a stretch that looks like that part of George Street. That area also has multiple nice supermarkets, a Home Depot, a mall, a ton of bar and restaurant options, 24/7 city transportation, major walkability- it's just expensive. And the type of problems that we saw in the 5th and 6th ward this past year are absent in those parts of town.

Morristown really has no ghetto at all. Red Bank has the area west of Shrewsbury Avenue- but that's really off the main stretch where anyone would have any reason to go.

The main access point for most outsiders into NB will be 18, and if you get off before 27, you're going to run into that. It's a turn off. Let's not fool ourselves.

 

[Korbermeister]

But they wont want to live there. Why would they.

If most of your classes are on CA, then you will want to live near there. IF most of your classes are on Cook, then you would want to live there. Its hard to come up with a reason to want to live in between. You have classes on Cook, but want to party on CA. Still makes more sense to live near one place and have to take a bus to the other, than live in between and have to take a bus to both.

Its too far from both to get reliable traffic from college students.

I don't think that he was referring to college students when he said "young people" but rather young college grads who are in the market for their housing.
Gentrification of lower george won't be easy because of the churches, the ugly school on the corner of george and commercial sts. and the very inappropriately designed apartments on the corner of george and remsen sts. but the pressure will increase once the housing-in-progress in Brunswick is completed. NB will never be a 'Hoboken', which seems to be a giant extended-stay hotel, at times. I think that NB can be something more interesting than that.

 

[derleider]

Originally posted by NotInRHouse:
I don't think anyone would argue against NB being a city on the rise in most ways. It would be a bad argument. Heck, Atlantic City says it's a model for them.

The problem is that NB still has in my opinion, two serious problems. One, crime persistent in the nicer parts of town, and two, some areas that are aesthetically very bad like that part of George Street, that are crucial for the overall development of the downtown.

Yeah, we all know ghettos living in this part of the country. The average NJ resident probably lives not too far from one and I'm sure almost all 21 counties have one really hardluck urban area. But, an RU applicant or yuppie is probably not looking for that in making their decision on where to spend 4 years or a 12 year lease. And it's certainly avoidable for many NJ families. In my mind, it's one of the biggest obstacles faced by RU. For all the advantages we have over TTFP and UDel which in my mind significantly outweigh this issue- they don't have a ghetto, they don't have news reports about the crime from that ghetto creeping outwards into the murder of a former student.

You can go the length of the area from the southernmost point in Downtown Jersey City up through Hoboken into Weehawken or maybe even West New York and you will not see a stretch that looks like that part of George Street. That area also has multiple nice supermarkets, a Home Depot, a mall, a ton of bar and restaurant options, 24/7 city transportation, major walkability- it's just expensive. And the type of problems that we saw in the 5th and 6th ward this past year are absent in those parts of town.

Morristown really has no ghetto at all. Red Bank has the area west of Shrewsbury Avenue- but that's really off the main stretch where anyone would have any reason to go.

The main access point for most outsiders into NB will be 18, and if you get off before 27, you're going to run into that. It's a turn off. Let's not fool ourselves.

Seriously. We are talking about a three block stretch on one side, maybe six blocks, which is mostly houses, churches, a few open lots, and non-white oriented businesses, all of which seem occupied. (The open lots all seem relatively well maintained on Google StreetView.)

IF precious suburbanites can stand the site of the black hair place or the vegetable seller, jeez - go live in Iowa or something. Or stay our in lilyland. TCNJ's cloistered campus will allow you to continue to pretend that things are peachy everywhere.

Just threw down StreetView in a random point in the area you described and it looks more or less exactly like that - a little more dense (no churches or open lots), but plenty of minority oriented businsses and graffiti. Fewer open lots and higher buildings - but with real estate being at such a premium so close to NYC, thats not surprise.

Did it in another spot, and same result.

There are some pretty bad areas in NB. Crime is an issue. It would be nice if the open lots on George Street got filled for sure. But jeez - seriously - this isnt ghetto. This is just a normal old downtown whos residents are minorities instead of white guys. IF it was in central PA it would be refered to as a quiant town in need of some sprucing up.

You people crack me up.

This post was edited on 12/12 1:38 PM by derleider

 

[Korbermeister]

But they wont want to live there. Why would they.

If most of your classes are on CA, then you will want to live near there. IF most of your classes are on Cook, then you would want to live there. Its hard to come up with a reason to want to live in between. You have classes on Cook, but want to party on CA. Still makes more sense to live near one place and have to take a bus to the other, than live in between and have to take a bus to both.

Its too far from both to get reliable traffic from college students.

I don't think that he was referring to college students when he said "young people" but rather young college grads who are in the market for their housing.
Gentrification of lower george won't be easy because of the churches, the ugly school on the corner of george and commercial sts. and the very inappropriately designed apartments on the corner of george and remsen sts. but the pressure will increase once the housing-in-progress in Brunswick is completed. NB will never be a 'Hoboken', which seems to be a giant extended-stay hotel, at times. I think that NB can be something more interesting than that.

 

[derleider]

Originally posted by Korbermeister:

But they wont want to live there. Why would they.

If most of your classes are on CA, then you will want to live near there. IF most of your classes are on Cook, then you would want to live there. Its hard to come up with a reason to want to live in between. You have classes on Cook, but want to party on CA. Still makes more sense to live near one place and have to take a bus to the other, than live in between and have to take a bus to both.

Its too far from both to get reliable traffic from college students.

I don't think that he was referring to college students when he said "young people" but rather young college grads who are in the market for their housing.
Gentrification of lower george won't be easy because of the churches, the ugly school on the corner of george and commercial sts. and the very inappropriately designed apartments on the corner of george and remsen sts. but the pressure will increase once the housing-in-progress in Brunswick is completed. NB will never be a 'Hoboken', which seems to be a giant extended-stay hotel, at times. I think that NB can be something more interesting than that.

Young people will want to live closer to down town. I would expect gentrification to expand outward radially around the train station and the main young adult social area, and vertically, rather than linearly up George Street.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Der

I'm not saying it's right or justified. But versus the competition, it just looks ugly.

Most places in NJ don't have abandoned lots and graffiti. That's going to be a turn off to prospective residents and students.

Not to mention, it's really just not, OK, it's ugly. It's also not that safe.

And there is graffiti in Hoboken and JC- it's also surrounded by more upmarket things, not Bravo and abandonment.

I guess IMO- the response to this on behalf of RU at least, should not be "don't like it, go to Iowa" because this NJ, and people will take up that offer. They already like going to the more hick and culty version in the state to the West.

 

[HPNJRUfan]

Originally posted by e5fdny:

Originally posted by RUskoolie:
As a resident, New Brunswick could use two things:

A legit grocery store (I know Stop n Shop is in Somerset but it is such a rip off).
A Lowes/Home Depot for all the landlords and maintenance people that are working in the city on a daily basis (the closest ones are all 15 minutes away).

Or at least a Lowe's Express. I use this one on occasion.

And I know Home Depot has an urban model too. There is smaller one on SI that could be the model for one in NB.

Being in this business myself - I really don't see a need for it.There are Lowes in Pway and North Brunswick. There are Home Depots in Milltown, South Plainfield, and Edison.

Even if they did build something like this, it'd probably be much better suited for someplace like Jersey Ave.

 

[retired711]

Originally posted by HPNJRUfan:

Originally posted by e5fdny:

Originally posted by RUskoolie:
As a resident, New Brunswick could use two things:

A legit grocery store (I know Stop n Shop is in Somerset but it is such a rip off).
A Lowes/Home Depot for all the landlords and maintenance people that are working in the city on a daily basis (the closest ones are all 15 minutes away).

Or at least a Lowe's Express. I use this one on occasion.

And I know Home Depot has an urban model too. There is smaller one on SI that could be the model for one in NB.

Being in this business myself - I really don't see a need for it.There are Lowes in Pway and North Brunswick. There are Home Depots in Milltown, South Plainfield, and Edison.

Even if they did build something like this, it'd probably be much better suited for someplace like Jersey Ave.

Ack! My sister lives just off Jersey Avenue!

 

[Jonny S]

My preference would be a Target Express on George where Extreme is, and maybe a Best Buy Express further down. There just isn't the construction market in NB like there would be in Jersey City.

 

[RUKeystone]

A few thoughts:

100 percent without a doubt the entire area between CA and Cook needs to be gentrified. Those who think otherwise are fooling themselves as I drive through that stretch every day on my commute home and it is pretty shady. I've heard plenty of horror stories near Rockoff and further down George on the way to Cook.

Isn't RU building its first new building on that strip of George in like 30+ years? Can't remember where I read it but I found that a tiny bit encouraging.

There is also still a serious crime issue off campus. I graduated only a couple years ago but lived on the corner of Guilden and Hamilton. In my three years of off campus living, my house was robbed, I had housemates get beat up just by sitting on my front porch (which I was witness to), people getting shot and stabbed all around Ward 5/6 area....

I'm hoping the new apartment tower on Somerset street should continue to gentrify the area.

I also completely agree with the poster who said that as a CA student, George Street was never really under consideration as a night scene even for over 21. If you wanted to go out to a nicer spot than Easton, you went to Hoboken, NYC etc.

 

[PeteGiam07]

I know its tough for this board to hear but new brunswick is a hard commute to nyc for people in their 20s. Having access to a 24/7 path is very important to them.

My good friend lives in the highlands in downtown nb and works in franklin. He is 30 and even he admits there isnt anything special about living in downtown nb.

Im in the lanlord business and my properties are in the ironbound in newark.My tenants love what they get for rent prices and love being within a 10 minute walk of the path station.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[sct1111]

Originally posted by PeteGiam07:
I know its tough for this board to hear but new brunswick is a hard commute to nyc for people in their 20s. Having access to a 24/7 path is very important to them.

My good friend lives in the highlands in downtown nb and works in franklin. He is 30 and even he admits there isnt anything special about living in downtown nb.

Im in the lanlord business and my properties are in the ironbound in newark.My tenants love what they get for rent prices and love being within a 10 minute walk of the path station.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

The commute from Red Bank isn't exactly easy either, it'a actually a farther commute yet they've developed a very nice gentrified downtown area where many 20 somethings live. Granted, Red Bank has the beach within 20 minutes. New Brunswick has a nice central location in the state. I don't ever think it's going to turn into a Hoboken but I think Red Bank is the city New Brunswick should be modeled after.

 

[sct1111]

Originally posted by derleider:

Originally posted by sct1111:
There is now a frozen yogurt place on Livingston under the new apartments which is pretty popular. Truly Yogurt has the best location by far on College Ave for the college kids. It was a favorite for sure when I was on campus a few years ago.

Honestly, when I was a student a few years ago college kids rarely traveled down George street passed the starbucks and the chipotle. This is probably the reason why the red mango didn't make it. After that area it gets kind of shady. I've had multiple crime alerts about people getting beat up and mugged in broad daylight near Rockoff. It's a shame because I could really see George street as a Hobokenesque location in the future. Devco's next project should be to revitalize the area of George Street between Douglass and College Ave so that students will want to live there. I'm talking shops, trendy bars, restaurants etc. There is already pieces of this, it's just not fully done. It was just weird to travel from Cook/Douglass in the EE through a ghetto to get to College Ave when they are about a mile apart. They need George Street to be a nice location that joins the two NB campuses.

If you really want NB to be a place where young adults want to live like Hoboken or Red Bank they need to focus on heavily gentrifying the area around the train station starting with George Street.

But they wont want to live there. Why would they.

If most of your classes are on CA, then you will want to live near there. IF most of your classes are on Cook, then you would want to live there. Its hard to come up with a reason to want to live in between. You have classes on Cook, but want to party on CA. Still makes more sense to live near one place and have to take a bus to the other, than live in between and have to take a bus to both.

Its too far from both to get reliable traffic from college students.

Do you realize how far some of the houses the kids live in from the College Ave Student center? Pretty far, all the way down Somerset and Hamilton. There is also a bus (EE) that runs down and stops on George Street. I don't think there is a bus that goes all the way down Hamilton or Somerset. Besides, half of those houses are horribly maintained and falling apart. If you lived in an apartment say halfway between Cook and College Ave you have a 15 minute walk either way. When I lived in the Newell apartments on Cook, it took 15 minutes just to walk to Hickman Hall which is on the same campus. Plus, living in apartments over a Starbucks or a Chipotle within walking distance of trendy bars and restaurants is much more appealing than living in a crappy house on Louis Street in a moderately high crime area. I honestly think it could be done.

Also this: http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/nj/new-brunswick/crime/ Look at the area of Cook/Douglass and the area of College Ave. Both of these areas have a very low crime rate, the lowest in the city. Then look at the area in between. It has the highest crime rate in New Brunswick. Something needs to be done about this. It's this area that kills NB as a college town.
This post was edited on 12/13 9:39 AM by sct1111

This post was edited on 12/13 9:40 AM by sct1111

 

[Jonny S]

Red Bank is basically one strip, there's nothing anywhere else. It's great for luxury shopping but really has a lot less going for it than NB has.

 

[RUskoolie]

Originally posted by PeteGiam07:
I know its tough for this board to hear but new brunswick is a hard commute to nyc for people in their 20s. Having access to a 24/7 path is very important to them.

My good friend lives in the highlands in downtown nb and works in franklin. He is 30 and even he admits there isnt anything special about living in downtown nb.

Im in the lanlord business and my properties are in the ironbound in newark.My tenants love what they get for rent prices and love being within a 10 minute walk of the path station.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

I live in NB and commute to NYC daily. I'm in my 20s. It's a nice alternative to Hoboken or Morristown but its definitely not the same and is ranked 3rd behind those two areas for 20-somethings.

 

[T2Kplus10]

I am well beyond my 20's, but I just can't see why folks would want to live in NB. Still plenty of crime, several very dilapidated sections, and awful school (not talking RU). Yeah, it's got a little momentum now, but it needs more J&J-like companies to move in, and I think that massive transit village being built in North Brunswick is going to suck up a lot of young professionals look for "urban" living in central NJ.

New North B Main Street

 

[Upstream]

T2K -- You are certainly not the demographic that New Brunswick is targeting if you think the North Brunswick Transit Village is going to suck up people considering New Brunswick. The North Brunswick Transit Village is a big-box mall with Costco and Target adjacent to a dense condo community of 1800 units with some first floor retail that will house your typical suburban strip mall pizzerias, bagel shops, hair salons, dry cleaner, plus maybe a few big chains (due to the Route 1 location and proximity to Costco and Target). If there are any bars, you are looking at chains like Applebees or Houlihans

 

[T2Kplus10]

Originally posted by Upstream:
T2K -- You are certainly not the demographic that New Brunswick is targeting if you think the North Brunswick Transit Village is going to suck up people considering New Brunswick. The North Brunswick Transit Village is a big-box mall with Costco and Target adjacent to a dense condo community of 1800 units with some first floor retail that will house your typical suburban strip mall pizzerias, bagel shops, hair salons, dry cleaner, plus maybe a few big chains (due to the Route 1 location and proximity to Costco and Target). If there are any bars, you are looking at chains like Applebees or Houlihans

I understand the point about bars, but who will this attract other than younger professionals? This isn't going to pull from the typical suburban demos.

 

[Upstream]

Originally posted by T2Kplus10:

Originally posted by Upstream:
T2K -- You are certainly not the demographic that New Brunswick is targeting if you think the North Brunswick Transit Village is going to suck up people considering New Brunswick. The North Brunswick Transit Village is a big-box mall with Costco and Target adjacent to a dense condo community of 1800 units with some first floor retail that will house your typical suburban strip mall pizzerias, bagel shops, hair salons, dry cleaner, plus maybe a few big chains (due to the Route 1 location and proximity to Costco and Target). If there are any bars, you are looking at chains like Applebees or Houlihans

I understand the point about bars, but who will this attract other than younger professionals? This isn't going to pull from the typical suburban demos.

But that's just it. The North Brunswick Transit Village will pull from the suburban demographic who are considering other condo communities in North/South Brunswick, Plainsboro, and Franklin. It is a purely suburban demographic.

New Brunswick will cater to those who want a more urban environment, but want to be in Central NJ.

 

[DosCoreys]

Agree with Upstream. The kind of person who wants to live in the North Brunswick Transit Village probably wouldn't consider New Brunswick in the first place. Two totally different environments. I never really saw the appeal of that sort of ersatz "village" but to each his own.

Totally concur on the train station. It needs a major overhaul. It's actually a pretty, historic structure, the bones are there for a nice station, just requires some upgrades and modernization.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Originally posted by DosCoreys:
Agree with Upstream. The kind of person who wants to live in the North Brunswick Transit Village probably wouldn't consider New Brunswick in the first place. Two totally different environments. I never really saw the appeal of that sort of ersatz "village" but to each his own.

Totally concur on the train station. It needs a major overhaul. It's actually a pretty, historic structure, the bones are there for a nice station, just requires some upgrades and modernization.

I'm still not too sure about this. Most folks living in suburban condo/townhouse communities do so for the price point and convenience of no maintenance, not for walking distance from retail (which most such communities do not have).

I guess the train station will be the biggest selling point? It definitely won't be the mediocre school system, which is very important for suburban families.

 

[DosCoreys]

Originally posted by T2Kplus10:

Originally posted by DosCoreys:
Agree with Upstream. The kind of person who wants to live in the North Brunswick Transit Village probably wouldn't consider New Brunswick in the first place. Two totally different environments. I never really saw the appeal of that sort of ersatz "village" but to each his own.

Totally concur on the train station. It needs a major overhaul. It's actually a pretty, historic structure, the bones are there for a nice station, just requires some upgrades and modernization.

I'm still not too sure about this. Most folks living in suburban condo/townhouse communities do so for the price point and convenience of no maintenance, not for walking distance from retail (which most such communities do not have).

I guess the train station will be the biggest selling point? It definitely won't be the mediocre school system, which is very important for suburban families.

I mostly agree with you. Families are not going to New Brunswick, and because of the schools may well never go there, no matter how much the town gentrifies. But as far as late 20s / early 30s singles go, many want drinking and dining options that you're not going to find in NBTV or similar arrangements. That's the demo that New Brunswick can realistically try to lure at this point and I just don't see NBTV stealing those types away from New Brunswick.

 

[Upstream]

Most suburban condo communities don't have retail as walkable as planned for North Brunswick, but multiple strip malls every 1.5 miles certainly dot the condo landscape in places like Hillsborough, Franklin, and Plainsboro. But for the most part, those strip malls require residents to get in their cars to drive. And while there are newly built small-town condos in places like South Bound Brook or Somerville, those who want the convenience of walkable retail in a suburban condo environment don't have a lot of choices. That is who the North Brunswick transit village is designed for. (And schools don't matter, since residents in the transit village are mostly expected to be people without kids or empty nesters.)

New Brunswick needs to develop to appeal to a different demographic. It needs to appeal to people who want vibrant urban living in a small city. When the North Brunswick Transit Village rolls up the sidewalks at 9 pm, New Brunswick will be alive.

 

[Saint Puppy]

Originally posted by Jonny S:
Red Mango on Albany has closed up shop after nearly two years. Let's tally the other casualties:
Let's Yo! on GeorgeCups in the Ferren Mall (which is getting demolished, but it wasn't doing so great otherwise)Top It, which had the indignity of lasting for about a month on Easton, a block from Truly Yogurt
Leaving once again, only the venerable Truly (formerly Fruity) Yogurt on Easton left standing. Location was really the problem for all of these beyond oversaturation. No foot traffic for Red Mango, Top It was too close to Truly Yogurt, and who wants to go to the Ferren Mall? There was also one where LA Bagel is for about two seconds a few years back, and that might have been a promising spot on upper Easton.

In other news, it looks like The Counter is FINALLY going to open soon next to the World of Beer. I saw them holding an info session for potential workers in there tonight. Garden Steak is also being replaced by a vegan/organic place, which could be interesting. There are still a ton of vacancies on George.

As an aside, after 11-years I am about to leave the New Brunswick area for North Jersey. Mostly for commuting reasons, but it would have been a much harder decision if NB had better/cheaper housing stock, and a legitimate supermarket. As I'm pretty much in DEVCO's demo (late 20s, good job) and tried really hard to make it work, that isn't the greatest sign.

This is huge and sums up everything IMO. How NB after all these years still hasn't figured out the supermarket thing is quite simply baffling.

 

[RUnTeX]

Originally posted by Upstream:

New Brunswick needs to develop to appeal to a different demographic. It needs to appeal to people who want vibrant urban living in a small city. When the North Brunswick Transit Village rolls up the sidewalks at 9 pm, New Brunswick will be alive.

Hey, c'mon now....last call at Applebees or Houlihans will be at least 10pm, lol.

 

[derleider]

Saint Puppy - its not that hard to grasp.

First - NB has two supermarkets (Bravo and Aldi). But they cater to NBs majority non-student population - the poor.

Supermarkets are low margin affairs. And urban supermarkets are at a disadvantage - higher rents coupled with lower selection (due to less space).

The problem for NB is this. Students make up a big part of the population, and will eventually have money, but don't right now. So you can't count on them to go and pay higher prices when they could drive to a cheaper supermarket. ALso students can ofte get food eslewhere more or less for free (via their parents and KnightExpress or the Dining Hall).

So you are reliant on the non-poor, non-student portion of the NB population. But NB isnt that populous, and its not that dense. So you arent getting walkups. People are driving to whatever store you are putting up. So why not drive an extra few minutes and shop at a cheaper supermarket. NB surely has some WholeFoods style shoppers for whom quality is more important than price - but not enough to sustain a supermaket.

Its a problem in alot of urban areas - but NB in particularly, being small, and surrounded by suburbs filled with cheaper grocery stores, has additional problems that a larger, more isolated, or richer town wouldnt.

 

[Upstream]

For a supermarket to survive in NB, it needs to get customers from commuters coming off the trains, from the hospital, and from employees who work at J&J, law offices, etc.

A big problem with Fresh Grocer was that it just wasn't that accessible to those customers. Two times I considered shopping at Fresh Grocer (once when coming off the train from NYC and once when at RWJ Hospital). Despite literally being 400 feet from the supermarket, I realized that it would take me about 15 minutes or more to walk there. In both cases, I decided it would just be easier to stop at another market on my drive home.

Maybe with the re-building of the Ferren Deck property, the entrance to the supermarket won't seem as hidden. But there still needs to be better pedestrian access to get across the railroad tracks (especially from the hospital), and also to navigate the Albany/Easton intersection.