The New Brunswick frozen yogurt wars end with a thud
- Thread starter Jonny S
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i still believe that quality was just as important as access when considering walk ups. There was no reason to go to fresh grocer if you could get same/better quality on the way home for less. As I said before, there was nothing unique about fresh grocer other than it being downtown and after awhile the novelty of it being downtown wore off. Why get an ordinary slice of pizza from fresh grocer which is 2 blocks away when i can get an ordinary slice of pizza from 3 different locations that are just as far away..
Because that store is right on the border of North Brunswick and far from the downtown core of NB where the new high-density housing is being built.
There is also a Stop & Shop across the street from New Brunswick at the intersection of Rt 27 and Veronica Lane, but that is also far from downtown.
People moving to high-density housing in a downtown core want a supermarket that is walkable.
From the NB train station, the Livingston Ave Foodtown is a 1.6 mile walk. The Veronica Ave Stop & Shop is a 2.8 mile walk. The Rutgers Plaza Stop & Shop is a 2.5 mile walk. And the Highland Park Stop & Shop is a comparatively short 1.2 mile walk. That 1.2 mile walk is pretty much at the edge of what most people will walk with groceries.
Yes - the question is - how many of them really want that. How many are willing to pay higher prices for the time savings over going to places on Route 1, Easton Ave, Route 18, or Route 27. I mean a half a mile walk with groceries is probably 10 minutes. About the same as the drive to Highland Park Stop & Shop.
Thats assuming they dont simply hit the grocery store on the way home from work (if they drive, which many of them do.)
And the closer you get to the dense core, the more expensive the groceries will be.
So are there enough people around to make that work. The fact that it hasnt worked I think says that there still arent enoguh upper income people in NJ to support a grovery store for upper income people.
Only because I love maps and geography, I only mention Foodtown because another commenter mentioned Aldi, which is closer to many of the new condos than Foodtown and far closer than Shoprite in Franklin. (But yes, it may as well be in Siberia)
Der -- two points:
* NB is adding more high density housing to the downtown core. So although there may not have been enough people to support a supermarket 2 years ago, that may not be the case 2 years from now.
* As I indicated earlier in this thread, a downtown supermarket in NB needs to be easily accessible to the people coming off the train, plus people who work at the hospitals, J&J, etc.
* NB is adding more high density housing to the downtown core. So although there may not have been enough people to support a supermarket 2 years ago, that may not be the case 2 years from now.
* As I indicated earlier in this thread, a downtown supermarket in NB needs to be easily accessible to the people coming off the train, plus people who work at the hospitals, J&J, etc.
Students will use a walkable supermarket. Not all students have cars, and it's a pain to find parking.
I found the drive to Stop and Shop if I needed something quick agitating.
I think a Trader Joe's with a liquor store would do very well. It doesn't need a lot of space, it's cheap, and the cheapness and plentiful, good, frozen and prepared foods will appeal to students and younger people. It will also be attractive for more yuppies.
I found the drive to Stop and Shop if I needed something quick agitating.
I think a Trader Joe's with a liquor store would do very well. It doesn't need a lot of space, it's cheap, and the cheapness and plentiful, good, frozen and prepared foods will appeal to students and younger people. It will also be attractive for more yuppies.
I sincerely hope NB can get a quality food store. In this case, it really is a matter of density (of both residents and workers) downtown, because few people are going to drive there, even with ample parking in the deck.
We're completely spoiled in Portland in the realm of food stores and options. It's great. I live 2 blocks from a very nice food store. Having it so close absolutely influenced my decision live where I do.
And I would say Trader Joe's has very reasonable prices.
We're completely spoiled in Portland in the realm of food stores and options. It's great. I live 2 blocks from a very nice food store. Having it so close absolutely influenced my decision live where I do.
And I would say Trader Joe's has very reasonable prices.
Thanks. Maybe I should start going to the one near me. I may have been thinking of Whole Foods, which some people call "Whole Paycheck."
Actually Aldi Nord and Aldi Sud are separate divisions of the same company. Each brother manages the divisions independently. But, the key point is that they sell the same products. Aldi Nord (including Trader Joes) and Aldi Sud (including Aldi US) use the same suppliers and sell the same products.
I have been to both Aldi and Trader Joe's, and there is a difference in the stores. There is a reason why the Aldi I went to was in Eatontown, and the Trader Joe's was in Florham Park. Maybe the food is the same. But a Trader Joe's attracts a different audience- the overall audience NB wants to attract.
You could easily get a dinner for $5-7 at Trader Joe's and it will be quality. They also have niche products like Cookie Butter that are very popular and reasonably priced.
Big big difference from Whole Paycheck...also while Trader Joe's carries a lot of organic and hipsterish stuff, it's not crazily priced. They also always have free samples and coffee, and are known to pay their workers well. Checking out there is actually a pleasure.
You could easily get a dinner for $5-7 at Trader Joe's and it will be quality. They also have niche products like Cookie Butter that are very popular and reasonably priced.
Big big difference from Whole Paycheck...also while Trader Joe's carries a lot of organic and hipsterish stuff, it's not crazily priced. They also always have free samples and coffee, and are known to pay their workers well. Checking out there is actually a pleasure.
There's a lot of absurdity in this thread. For starters, FroYo was dead before it even began in NB. Yogurt shops were listed for sale all over the state & for some reason people felt the need to open them in NB. Its a great concept that doesnt work well in a NE climate.
In a different thread, I mentioned burgers having the same fate as froyo... and its been happening. I've seen a few Five Guys shut down & the trend is going to keep happening. I dont know what the new burger place is that keeps being mentioned, but its truly heard to differentiate yourselves from other burger places or fast food.
Trader Joe's would be a good fit for Fresh Grocer, but it'll probably wind up being some sort of Saker Shop Rite or one of their new offshoots that I hear they're working on.
The North Bruns Main St is a serious dagger for downtown RB. Sure there's going to be the usual litany of chain restaurants, but the retail is where the pain points start. Gap, Urban, Victorias Secret, lululemon, etc. A good collection of high end chain retail will anchor the place.
That also doesnt take into account the mall going in over the Driscoll bridge. While it may never be built in the scope the developer imagines, Bass Pro Shops, Century 21 & Regal Cinemas are signed--- that, and the Turnpike Auth going forward with exit 123 improvements guarantee somethig will happen.
The Red Bank comments are bizzare. That town is currently exploding; the "ghetto" west side is gentrifying quickly and luring in legit retail... West Elm, Triumph Brewing. Its a lot more than "just 1 strip"
There was more that caught my eye, but figured this was more than enough for 1 post
In a different thread, I mentioned burgers having the same fate as froyo... and its been happening. I've seen a few Five Guys shut down & the trend is going to keep happening. I dont know what the new burger place is that keeps being mentioned, but its truly heard to differentiate yourselves from other burger places or fast food.
Trader Joe's would be a good fit for Fresh Grocer, but it'll probably wind up being some sort of Saker Shop Rite or one of their new offshoots that I hear they're working on.
The North Bruns Main St is a serious dagger for downtown RB. Sure there's going to be the usual litany of chain restaurants, but the retail is where the pain points start. Gap, Urban, Victorias Secret, lululemon, etc. A good collection of high end chain retail will anchor the place.
That also doesnt take into account the mall going in over the Driscoll bridge. While it may never be built in the scope the developer imagines, Bass Pro Shops, Century 21 & Regal Cinemas are signed--- that, and the Turnpike Auth going forward with exit 123 improvements guarantee somethig will happen.
The Red Bank comments are bizzare. That town is currently exploding; the "ghetto" west side is gentrifying quickly and luring in legit retail... West Elm, Triumph Brewing. Its a lot more than "just 1 strip"
There was more that caught my eye, but figured this was more than enough for 1 post
Trader Joe's is a cheaper Whole Foods, but Whole Foods has a bigger selection and gives out coupons. (I also read that their store-brand products are priced similarly to those at places like Shoprite.) I do like the Hawaiian atmosphere and I have a friend who works at a Trader Joe's in North Jersey.
I know someone mentioned Morristown earlier. I was in Morristown a couple weeks ago for a small convention and realized how nice most of the downtown is (it was just heavily raining most of the weekend). I know there's not many college students there (I think there's a Jewish seminary and not much else), but the train station is pretty close to all the bars and shops. They do some nice community events in the Green area, too.
I know someone mentioned Morristown earlier. I was in Morristown a couple weeks ago for a small convention and realized how nice most of the downtown is (it was just heavily raining most of the weekend). I know there's not many college students there (I think there's a Jewish seminary and not much else), but the train station is pretty close to all the bars and shops. They do some nice community events in the Green area, too.
There are a decent amount of residential units in the core of RB and there will be more soon as a few residential projects are nearing completion.
RB isn't really a good comparison for NB IMO. RB is a much sleepier town, with no academic or large corporate presence. It's thriving because it's a compact, walkable, aesthetically pleasing downtown in the midst of an affluent area. I spend a lot of time in RB since my family is from a couple towns over and it's a great place but it's essentially a bedroom community that's pretty quiet during the day. NB is a lot more bustling by comparison.
Those 2 supermarkets are really not viable options for who NB is trying to cater to with a supermarket. I've never been to Bravo, but I went to C-town a couple of times and those were not pleasant trips. I don't know if a regular supermarket can survive in downtown NB that is accessible to the students and the upwardly mobile population that NB seems to be trying to cater to now. The key is to make these accessible without a car, and to be in a safe area. Fresh Grocer failed, and I know why they said they failed, but would have a Foodtwon, A&P type of supermarket done better there? Even with the J&J crowd I don't think a Whole Foods or a Trader Joes would work so well. NB is a complex town with a very diverse makeup - J&J, college students, poor, and the upwardly mobile populous who NB is trying to attract now. One thing is for sure you have to keep trying because they do need a supermarket there with NB's vision - whether one can survive or not is another question.
Yes - youve more or less summed up by point. Most of NB is poor (students are poor) and so the few successful supermarkets cater to the poor - not to the relative handful of relatively well of post-college people living there.
Do people actually walk to supermarkets? Ive never really lived near one - is it really a thing? Remember - NB isnt NYC. Most residents, even those who commute by train, and even students, have cars.
So I dont think walkability is as big a factor as convenience and not being a poor peoples store (i.e. not Aldi or Bravo). But like I said, thats tough given NBs relative lack of high end customers.
Do people actually walk to supermarkets? Ive never really lived near one - is it really a thing? Remember - NB isnt NYC. Most residents, even those who commute by train, and even students, have cars.
So I dont think walkability is as big a factor as convenience and not being a poor peoples store (i.e. not Aldi or Bravo). But like I said, thats tough given NBs relative lack of high end customers.
People definitely walk to the supermarket. I do in Jersey City- it would take longer to drive, honestly.
NB isn't going to be a retail strip. Really outside of the mall in JC/Hoboken you have a few stores like Baby Gap and Anthropologie and some hipster and organic stuff but overall most of the street traffic is bars and restaurants and usual pharmacies and banks like on typical city blocks.
Middlesex County has so much retail (another mall makes about zero sense there). Some stores catering to students like an American Eagle or something- makes sense. But fancy retail has no place there.
Red Bank has a lot fancy retail because it's surrounded by a lot of wealth and the nearest mall is kind of eh. New Brunswick is surrounded by some wealth and Menlo is a solid mall.
NB isn't going to be a retail strip. Really outside of the mall in JC/Hoboken you have a few stores like Baby Gap and Anthropologie and some hipster and organic stuff but overall most of the street traffic is bars and restaurants and usual pharmacies and banks like on typical city blocks.
Middlesex County has so much retail (another mall makes about zero sense there). Some stores catering to students like an American Eagle or something- makes sense. But fancy retail has no place there.
Red Bank has a lot fancy retail because it's surrounded by a lot of wealth and the nearest mall is kind of eh. New Brunswick is surrounded by some wealth and Menlo is a solid mall.
Growing up in Highland Park, people walked to the supermarket all the time. Even where I live now, in more spread out suburbs, I often make the 1.5 mile walk to my supermarket on a nice day.
I've only lived in LA for a couple months, but they take their burgers SUPER seriously here. There is so much pride in wherever someone believes is the best place. The Counter (founded in Santa Monica) is a consistent top mention, along with Hook Burgers and The Habit, The general theme is put as much ridiculous and delicious stuff on the menu (and label it all as "organic") and see what people will eat.
Am I the only one that thinks there are too many fancy burger places these days? This place has a bar which is different.
BTW, the Santa Barbara Burger at the Habit is one of the best chain restaurant meals I've ever had. It was really good. I wish they had that in Jersey.
BTW, the Santa Barbara Burger at the Habit is one of the best chain restaurant meals I've ever had. It was really good. I wish they had that in Jersey.
Yeah it happened with frozen yogurt.
I think it makes more sense when this stuff happens out in LA which lacks an original food culture, besides (maybe) Mexican or Chinese and then places like San Diego or San Fran have personalized it much more. Here in NYC and NJ we have more established local food.
In Middlesex County, that would be an interesting choice to say the least! They have to have one of the highest per capita if not the highest...Jackson Heights or Journal Square being the only real competition.
I think it makes more sense when this stuff happens out in LA which lacks an original food culture, besides (maybe) Mexican or Chinese and then places like San Diego or San Fran have personalized it much more. Here in NYC and NJ we have more established local food.
In Middlesex County, that would be an interesting choice to say the least! They have to have one of the highest per capita if not the highest...Jackson Heights or Journal Square being the only real competition.
Funny you should mention Indian cuisine; there's an Indian restaurant opening on George st. in the space where the yogurt place was, next to Payless Shoes.
It happens everywhere. NYC and NJ arent immune to national trends. In fine dining, NYC often sets the trends, but for takeout/fast food/family, NJ and its vast suburbs usually actually gets its cues from elsewhere. I mean despite there being plenty of Italian restaurants - NJ still also has plenty of Olive Gardens (Orlando), Carrabas (Houston), and Romanos (San Antonio).
But Italian is out too now of course, when at one time it seemed like they were opening one of those three in every other mall and shopping center in the burbs.
Burgers will be the same way. Oh look a Five Guys - cool - I can get a real burger with BBQ and jalepenos and alot of fries turns in to, damn, do we really need ANOTHER burger place around here - do I really need to be able to choose from 21,789,682,425 possible combinations (the literal number of combinations on that make your own burger menu - assuming you limit yourself to one sauce, one cheese, four or fewer toppings, and an actual burger on a bun - not a salad.)
This post was edited on 1/29 12:19 PM by derleider
NIRH. I made your exact burger comment multiple times on a threads months ago. It's a dead trend. One by one, all the five guys are going the way of the muscle maker grill... Either being sold or shuttered.
All these burger places are a crock. While it's a nice concept, the reality is that you wind up paying $17 for a burger. I'd rather just go to stage left and get their burger for that price. At least I know they're using top notch ingredients.
There is very very little originality in fast-casual restaurants in this state. It's the same regurgitated concepts that are mired in mediocrity. BBQ will be the new burgers soon. I already see another bbq place is trying to open by rutgers, and sadly their menu is stereotypical nonsense one would find from a bbq place in NJ. pass.
The new beer garden is Asbury Park opens tonight. Want to see a place that did it right and will prosper. Go there. Their food is great, beers plentiful and the atmosphere is a home run.
If more people didn't pussyfoot into opening a restaurant & trusted their gut they would succeed. Too many people listen to "they". They say you have to do this, they say half our taps need to be Millercoors, they say people won't eat what they're not used to. Oy vey
Sorry for the rant, but it's true. Just like froyo was destined to fail and cupcakes prior, specialty burgers will have the same destiny
All these burger places are a crock. While it's a nice concept, the reality is that you wind up paying $17 for a burger. I'd rather just go to stage left and get their burger for that price. At least I know they're using top notch ingredients.
There is very very little originality in fast-casual restaurants in this state. It's the same regurgitated concepts that are mired in mediocrity. BBQ will be the new burgers soon. I already see another bbq place is trying to open by rutgers, and sadly their menu is stereotypical nonsense one would find from a bbq place in NJ. pass.
The new beer garden is Asbury Park opens tonight. Want to see a place that did it right and will prosper. Go there. Their food is great, beers plentiful and the atmosphere is a home run.
If more people didn't pussyfoot into opening a restaurant & trusted their gut they would succeed. Too many people listen to "they". They say you have to do this, they say half our taps need to be Millercoors, they say people won't eat what they're not used to. Oy vey
Sorry for the rant, but it's true. Just like froyo was destined to fail and cupcakes prior, specialty burgers will have the same destiny
The amount of places to get a burger in downtown NB is kind of ridiculous.
What is it now? 6 -8 places? With 2 of them specializing in burgers? (The counter & burgerfii?) That Burger King is still there too lol.
What is it now? 6 -8 places? With 2 of them specializing in burgers? (The counter & burgerfii?) That Burger King is still there too lol.
New Brunswick could use a beer garden. That would do well.
Brother Jimmy's is OK. I really liked Jersey Shore BBQ in Belmar.
Brother Jimmy's is OK. I really liked Jersey Shore BBQ in Belmar.
Jersey shore BBQ is very good and a beer garden would be amazing but I'm not sure the area is capable of supporting it yet.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
a giant open room with adjoining outdoor space that specializes in beer (BiER!), loud party music both live and recorded) and and heavy, working class foodstuffs? The hub city can definitely support it although NIMBYs would decry the deterioration of the neighbourhood of living near it. Personally i think that the city needs to increase the availability of liquor licenses
The Pilsner Haus is a nice, family friendly biergarten located in the SOLT (South Of Lincoln Tunnel) in Hoboken.
The Pilsner Haus is a nice, family friendly biergarten located in the SOLT (South Of Lincoln Tunnel) in Hoboken.
Based on the results of Shake Shack's IPO, Wall Street doesn't agree that casual gourmet burgers are a dead trend
