The Truth about this team

[Myrtleknight]

This is the most talented team Rutgers has had in the banks since I started religiously watching them in 1998.

No team is close.

And this negativity needs to stop.

Our two super frosh are the two best players to wear a RU uni since 98. And it’s not close. Not RHJ, Douby, Geo, Corey come close to matching either of these two skill sets.

But I don’t think that’s in question. It’s the supporting cast that has everyone worried.

It’s been 4.5 games.

Since 98 let’s compare our roster up and down to the best we’ve had the last 26 years.

And lets start with coaching. Who have we had that’s a better coach then pike. Waters, maybe, I guess, someone could make an argument, but not close imo. And no one else is within earshot. In pike I trust.

Martini-seems to be a physical PF, and someone content to be a role player. He’ll get the tough rebound and lose ball, is good around the rim and for a big man a very good shooter. Only player I can compare him to is is Kent, who yeah I’d prefer for this team, but he’s on his level. The other guy i can think of is that guy with the crazy hair from the same time frame. Can’t remember his name, we loved him because he was different not for his game. Martini better then him.

Jordan - let’s be honest here. Isn’t he sort of everything we always wanted Paul to be.

PJ /acuff - best comp for both is Cam. Cam was better, but who else have we had, Webb (loved him), billet who was a role player but forced into a top of the rotation role, these current guys are both better then them.

My only real concern is our bigs.

Somerville - who as a fresh I think cliff and Myles (loved him too) were better. And LS seems to be more of a 4 than a 5. LS is a different type of big, I don’t know if this is gonna hurt. EO- I don’t know. He’s big. Gonna have to trust coaching staff here.

Jamichael - as far as a comp goes JY, no doubt. I’ll admit it, I am still pissed about how Jacob young was used durning his time on the banks. JY was way way better. But Ja’s only comp is JY and that’s saying something.

Williams, who I think is a good player, I’m worried about him. Just seems like a square peg in a round hole for this squad. I think he is most similar to that Canadian who went to OR. And I didn’t like him as a a player either.

What we don’t have is a defensive specialist. No caleb. And I don’t care. As a defensive player I thought he would make it on the next level, but he didn’t because the modern game is all about offense.

But you put this all together, ladies and gentlemen, we have the best all around talent we have had on the banks in the last 25 years+.

Let’s not NY this thing and get all negative about not killing some lower level team. Or if we do lose some games in Nov or December, let’s act like we’ve been here before and have the Yankees/Duke type of attitude that this team will be rounding into form when it matters most in March.

 

[RUBlackout]

Hard to compare players across decades in general....

That said, I am enjoying the ride so far and think we have a ton of talent PLUS the right mix of complimentary players. Jordan for one is someone who is hustling all over the court making plays on both ends trying to create for others--he knows his role and is embracing it. Same goes for Martini from what I have seen and helps open up our offense with h[is outside shooting which will hopefully free up more Harper and Dylan.

Lathan has been a surprise to me considering he is not a starter. I know he is just a freshman but his footwork and ability around the rim has been great. Would like to see him try and draw more contact(with intent) as he also can shoot FTs which is something we have lacked from the Center position. My only gripe against him is his lack of awareness on defense(rebounding and help side). I am hopeful that will improve but its a problem at the 5 position.

I truly want to see Hayes out there more. Has such a nice stroke on offense and makes up for some of those defensive lapses. Clearly our defense is lacking as a whole so we need to score points--he can help.

JMike and JWill I am down on. With JMike I am noticing more maturity with him in the game slowing down and not trying to do too much. Just dont think he compliments as much as the other players and again situation for defense(full court press). While he is prob one of our best on-ball defenders I am still seeing guards take advantage of him.
JWill is a mystery to me. Clearly has talent but something seems missing. Clearly doesn't not have a good outside shot but he still seems out of control on many occasions and still finds himself slipping all over the court(maybe Nikes will help?)

 

[RUisB1Gtime]

If JWill and Acuff can become solid scorers/playmakers , we will be tough to beat....

 

[Myrtleknight]

PJ and Acuff has a +\- of 34 and 33. How do you split those two. Whose time do you take away. Rich people problems.

Ja is a +/- of 23 near bottom of the pack. But his numbers looked better before last night. And efficiency is top 6.

Williams is just flat out struggling, after every game with a bottom of the pack, and a +/- 19 on the season (only LS is lower at 18) and a worst on the team team efficiency.

 

[winfield102]

I really like the talent. There are some holes, but Ace and Dylan cover up most of those holes.

The season comes down to our coach this season. He's never had a team like this before and he's only going to get 1 shot at it. We aren't ever getting 2 top 5 guys again.

No easy task for Pike but that's what he is paid well to do.

 

[RUInsanity]

This is the most talented team Rutgers has had in the banks since I started religiously watching them in 1998.

No team is close.

And this negativity needs to stop.

I tend to not be too negative but I agree the board seems overly down on this team.
Best I can tell is that expectations are higher this year and with that comes more attention, fans and scrutiny. Add to that the historical trolls who come here to generally post the same negative shit over and over again targeting certain players.

 

[RU82]

Our interior defense and rebounding are god awful. The big question is whether we can tighten up those areas enough that our substantial offensive ability can overcome it against decent teams. Right now I’m doubtful but hopeful.

 

[BillyC80]

The truth is despite our talent we were never gonna be undefeated this year. I projected a 21-10 regular season so I expect 10 losses.

As far as the wins go, I don’t care if we get to 21 with better offense than defense.

In fact it’s better that our offense is ahead of our defense early in the season, because defense can be learned while scoring ability is usually baked in.

 

[higgins3]

This team as it stands has multiple players that are pluses on defense, but minuses on defense, and vice versa. It's tricky to tell how they will develop.

I think(and hope) they will do well. We will have a better feeling after the next four games.

 

[Mholinko]

Notice none of the trolls and negative regulars have chimed in here. They’d rather start a separate thread

 

[seansherm]

This is the most talented team Rutgers has had in the banks since I started religiously watching them in 1998.

No team is close.

And this negativity needs to stop.

Our two super frosh are the two best players to wear a RU uni since 98. And it’s not close. Not RHJ, Douby, Geo, Corey come close to matching either of these two skill sets.

But I don’t think that’s in question. It’s the supporting cast that has everyone worried.

It’s been 4.5 games.

Since 98 let’s compare our roster up and down to the best we’ve had the last 26 years.

And lets start with coaching. Who have we had that’s a better coach then pike. Waters, maybe, I guess, someone could make an argument, but not close imo. And no one else is within earshot. In pike I trust.

Martini-seems to be a physical PF, and someone content to be a role player. He’ll get the tough rebound and lose ball, is good around the rim and for a big man a very good shooter. Only player I can compare him to is is Kent, who yeah I’d prefer for this team, but he’s on his level. The other guy i can think of is that guy with the crazy hair from the same time frame. Can’t remember his name, we loved him because he was different not for his game. Martini better then him.

Jordan - let’s be honest here. Isn’t he sort of everything we always wanted Paul to be.

PJ /acuff - best comp for both is Cam. Cam was better, but who else have we had, Webb (loved him), billet who was a role player but forced into a top of the rotation role, these current guys are both better then them.

My only real concern is our bigs.

Somerville - who as a fresh I think cliff and Myles (loved him too) were better. And LS seems to be more of a 4 than a 5. LS is a different type of big, I don’t know if this is gonna hurt. EO- I don’t know. He’s big. Gonna have to trust coaching staff here.

Jamichael - as far as a comp goes JY, no doubt. I’ll admit it, I am still pissed about how Jacob young was used durning his time on the banks. JY was way way better. But Ja’s only comp is JY and that’s saying something.

Williams, who I think is a good player, I’m worried about him. Just seems like a square peg in a round hole for this squad. I think he is most similar to that Canadian who went to OR. And I didn’t like him as a a player either.

What we don’t have is a defensive specialist. No caleb. And I don’t care. As a defensive player I thought he would make it on the next level, but he didn’t because the modern game is all about offense.

But you put this all together, ladies and gentlemen, we have the best all around talent we have had on the banks in the last 25 years+.

Let’s not NY this thing and get all negative about not killing some lower level team. Or if we do lose some games in Nov or December, let’s act like we’ve been here before and have the Yankees/Duke type of attitude that this team will be rounding into form when it matters most in March.

This may be the best team, but if so, it's almost purely because of Ace and Dylan, whose talent greatly exceeds anyone before them.

I disagree about Martini being an overly tough/physical player. His rebounding is worse than Aundre Hyatt. He is an excellent hustle guy, and I does knock down his open jumpers. I didn't love his pick up when it seemed he was coming as a 5, but can live with him 20 ish minutes at the 4. Really need better D/rebounding from him though. I don't think there is any comparison to Kent.

I had no idea what to expect from Derkack, he's been a nice surprise, but worry his game and foot speed will prove to be a little slow for this level.

Billet was probably better than both Acuff and PJ, but it's close. Not sure you could call Billet a role player, didn't average 30+ minutes every year and score double digits? Shot 40%+ from 3 on decent attempts. I like Acuff, need him healthy, and PJ has been better overall than I expected, but his playing time has been a little less over the four games, so Pike may not like something there. Be interesting what happens with these two as the rotation shrinks.

Jmike and JWill are repetitive. I said all offseason I didn't like JWill's fit next to Dylan unless he suddenly improved his shooting greatly. He hasn't.

We really could have used Grant or Dortch to be good 3 and D but tough to expect from true freshman.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

This is the most talented team Rutgers has had in the banks since I started religiously watching them in 1998.

No team is close.

And this negativity needs to stop.

Our two super frosh are the two best players to wear a RU uni since 98. And it’s not close. Not RHJ, Douby, Geo, Corey come close to matching either of these two skill sets.

But I don’t think that’s in question. It’s the supporting cast that has everyone worried.

It’s been 4.5 games.

Since 98 let’s compare our roster up and down to the best we’ve had the last 26 years.

And lets start with coaching. Who have we had that’s a better coach then pike. Waters, maybe, I guess, someone could make an argument, but not close imo. And no one else is within earshot. In pike I trust.

Martini-seems to be a physical PF, and someone content to be a role player. He’ll get the tough rebound and lose ball, is good around the rim and for a big man a very good shooter. Only player I can compare him to is is Kent, who yeah I’d prefer for this team, but he’s on his level. The other guy i can think of is that guy with the crazy hair from the same time frame. Can’t remember his name, we loved him because he was different not for his game. Martini better then him.

Jordan - let’s be honest here. Isn’t he sort of everything we always wanted Paul to be.

PJ /acuff - best comp for both is Cam. Cam was better, but who else have we had, Webb (loved him), billet who was a role player but forced into a top of the rotation role, these current guys are both better then them.

My only real concern is our bigs.

Somerville - who as a fresh I think cliff and Myles (loved him too) were better. And LS seems to be more of a 4 than a 5. LS is a different type of big, I don’t know if this is gonna hurt. EO- I don’t know. He’s big. Gonna have to trust coaching staff here.

Jamichael - as far as a comp goes JY, no doubt. I’ll admit it, I am still pissed about how Jacob young was used durning his time on the banks. JY was way way better. But Ja’s only comp is JY and that’s saying something.

Williams, who I think is a good player, I’m worried about him. Just seems like a square peg in a round hole for this squad. I think he is most similar to that Canadian who went to OR. And I didn’t like him as a a player either.

What we don’t have is a defensive specialist. No caleb. And I don’t care. As a defensive player I thought he would make it on the next level, but he didn’t because the modern game is all about offense.

But you put this all together, ladies and gentlemen, we have the best all around talent we have had on the banks in the last 25 years+.

Let’s not NY this thing and get all negative about not killing some lower level team. Or if we do lose some games in Nov or December, let’s act like we’ve been here before and have the Yankees/Duke type of attitude that this team will be rounding into form when it matters most in March.

 

[RU-ROCS]

This is the most individual talent RU has probably ever assembled. But this year's squad has yet to become a team, especially on defense, where they have not remotely mastered the concept of help defense. RU's success hinges on whether Pike can get these very talented individuals to become a team whose sum is even greater than its parts. That is no easy task, with so much talent and not enough basketballs to go around. But, if Pike can pull that off, this team could be special. Time will tell. We we learn a lot in Vegas.

 

[365Poster24Seven]

We needed a real Center and Pike wanted one but he had no money to get one. We lost Cliff because he’ll be got a million dollars from Alabama. We offered Pike no chance to upgrade the roster with NIL because you guys won’t donate but somehow still want to win. Our two 5 star players are here because of NIL that had nothing to do with the alumni/fanbase. I’m sure these two young men will get bashed by this fanbase as soon as we lose.

 

[Scangg]

PJ and Acuff has a +\- of 34 and 33. How do you split those two. Whose time do you take away. Rich people problems.

Ja is a +/- of 23 near bottom of the pack. But his numbers looked better before last night. And efficiency is top 6.

Williams is just flat out struggling, after every game with a bottom of the pack, and a +/- 19 on the season (only LS is lower at 18) and a worst on the team team efficiency.

Where do you find the season long +/-?

 

[higgins3]

We needed a real Center and Pike wanted one but he had no money to get one. We lost Cliff because he’ll be got a million dollars from Alabama. We offered Pike no chance to upgrade the roster with NIL because you guys won’t donate but somehow still want to win. Our two 5 star players are here because of NIL that had nothing to do with the alumni/fanbase. I’m sure these two young men will get bashed by this fanbase as soon as we lose.

Not every player acquisition requires money, or a lot of it.

 

[365Poster24Seven]

Not every player acquisition requires money, or a lot of it.

Of course not but the goal is to win and win big. Hopefully these two kids can take us to the promise land but rebounding and toughness inside is not part of this team as of yet. The point being the C position is a huge hole right now. Big Ten play will expose this.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Two questions
1. I missed the 1st half of the Kennesaw State game. What is the score?
2. Basketball is both offense and defense. I think it is VERY early to call this the most talented team we have had. We have had some pretty good teams the past 5-6 years. Players like Myles Johnson may not be viewed as talented, but right now I would trade any player on this team for him right now.

 

[seansherm]

Where do you find the season long +/-?

I see it at cbbanalytics.com

It shows Sommerville at +9 for the year, no one else below +21 (Williams). Top three are Dylan at +53, Martini at +45 and Ogbole at +31.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

+ / - don't always tell the best picture because it doesn't take in consideration who the other 4 were on the court and how they played.......but it defintely shouldn't be ignored.

 

[seansherm]

+ / - don't always tell the best picture because it doesn't take in consideration who the other 4 were on the court and how they played.......but it defintely shouldn't be ignored.

Of course, think everyone agrees

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

EvanMiya CBB Analytics

Advanced college basketball analytics used widely by coaches, journalists, and fans.

evanmiya.com

This is good because it breaks down offensive and defensive efficiency when the said player is on the floor. How many points are scored divided by possessions (adjusted for competition)

Somerville (while on the floor) our offense is worse and our defense is worse. Sample size is 4 games and there are 4 other players on the court, but....

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Our best lineup could be a jumbo lineup of
Harper
Acuff
Ace
Martini
Ogbole

i joke and that would be a misinterpretation of the stats

 

[seansherm]

EvanMiya CBB Analytics

Advanced college basketball analytics used widely by coaches, journalists, and fans.

evanmiya.com

This is good because it breaks down offensive and defensive efficiency when the said player is on the floor. How many points are scored divided by possessions (adjusted for competition)

Somerville (while on the floor) our offense is worse and our defense is worse. Sample size is 4 games and there are 4 other players on the court, but....

Evan ratings were not fans of JWill last year

 

[seansherm]

Our best lineup could be a jumbo lineup of
Harper
Acuff
Ace
Martini
Ogbole

i joke and that would be a misinterpretation of the stats

I don't think that's much of a joke. Acuff, if healthy and in top shape is our best fit in between Harper and Ace, if he brings any defense. Can shoot, and put it on the ground.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Last year was odd and it made me think twice about my "theory" that RU elite D was because of Myles and Cliff as shotblocking 5s. Last year we were better defensively, based on actual data, with Cliff out of the game

 

[seansherm]

Last year was odd and it made me think twice about my "theory" that RU elite D was because of Myles and Cliff as shotblocking 5s. Last year we were better defensively, based on actual data, with Cliff out of the game

Defensive stats are tough - could be because other guys knew they had to lock in when Cliff wasn't behind them for help? Who knows.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

These analytics look VERY good for Myles Johnson over the years

 

[lion1983]

Last year was odd and it made me think twice about my "theory" that RU elite D was because of Myles and Cliff as shotblocking 5s. Last year we were better defensively, based on actual data, with Cliff out of the game

Perhaps because Omoruyi, other than his terrific blocked shot rate, which provided good help defense, was simply awful in his on ball defense against opposing post players.

I know you have seen my other posts pre-season going through omoruyi's defense game by game. He was outplayed by nearly every opposing center who had a pulse. Often by a large margin. Maybe that was not his fault, because unlike in the prior 2 seasons he did not have good help defenders to help HIM, such as McConnell and mulcahy.

Even so, he was terrible defensively other than blocked shots. And unfortunately, omoruyi did not have any offensive skills to offset his poor defense. If he kept up giving up 15-20 points and 12+ rebounds to the opposing center, one way to offset that would have been to score and rebound that much against those players. But I do not think.Omoruyi had a single game when he did that.

 

[lion1983]

One more thing on Omoruyi. As a junior he was excellent in his post defense... And blocked many fewer shots. I do not know what happened.

And oddly enough, RU was very good defensively last year, even with omoruyi proving incapable of defending against average or better post players.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

just off of memory I think he was good against Michigan, but maybe he was just plain bad last year.....and is still bad for aLABAMA. Could be the fire is out.

 

[Scangg]

Perhaps because Omoruyi, other than his terrific blocked shot rate, which provided good help defense, was simply awful in his on ball defense against opposing post players.

I know you have seen my other posts pre-season going through omoruyi's defense game by game. He was outplayed by nearly every opposing center who had a pulse. Often by a large margin. Maybe that was not his fault, because unlike in the prior 2 seasons he did not have good help defenders to help HIM, such as McConnell and mulcahy.

Even so, he was terrible defensively other than blocked shots. And unfortunately, omoruyi did not have any offensive skills to offset his poor defense. If he kept up giving up 15-20 points and 12+ rebounds to the opposing center, one way to offset that would have been to score and rebound that much against those players. But I do not think.Omoruyi had a single game when he did that.

We can stop anyone inside and have trouble rebounding against the cupcakes so far

This season we are likely to have an even harder time against P5 bigs

 

[Scangg]

One more thing on Omoruyi. As a junior he was excellent in his post defense... And blocked many fewer shots. I do not know what happened.

And oddly enough, RU was very good defensively last year, even with omoruyi proving incapable of defending against average or better post players.

Cliff was a rim protector and deterrent. He plays excellent PnR defense. His post defense is not great except against Edey for some reason

 

[G- RUnit]

One more thing on Omoruyi. As a junior he was excellent in his post defense... And blocked many fewer shots. I do not know what happened.

And oddly enough, RU was very good defensively last year, even with omoruyi proving incapable of defending against average or better post players.

Simpson?

 

[RutgHoops]

Perhaps because Omoruyi, other than his terrific blocked shot rate, which provided good help defense, was simply awful in his on ball defense against opposing post players.

I know you have seen my other posts pre-season going through omoruyi's defense game by game. He was outplayed by nearly every opposing center who had a pulse. Often by a large margin. Maybe that was not his fault, because unlike in the prior 2 seasons he did not have good help defenders to help HIM, such as McConnell and mulcahy.

Even so, he was terrible defensively other than blocked shots. And unfortunately, omoruyi did not have any offensive skills to offset his poor defense. If he kept up giving up 15-20 points and 12+ rebounds to the opposing center, one way to offset that would have been to score and rebound that much against those players. But I do not think.Omoruyi had a single game when he did that.

I disagree but I would phrase it a bit differently. Cliff was an adequate on ball defender in the post and a plus, plus off ball defensive player. Cliff was as All- B1G defensive player (as both a Junior and Senior) because he changed a remarkable amount of shots at the rim due to his exceptional ability as a help defender and as a defender in the high pick and roll offenses most teams run these days. While I like the potential of both E and Lathan and think they get better as the year goes on I think Ive seen us get burned for layups on a "roll" in the high pick and roll more in the first four games than I saw in the last two years. And for all the times Cliff struggled against an opposing Center the opposite side is (I believe) he played Edey and Dickinson tougher straight up than any other Center in the B1G. Hence our better performance versus Purdue than just about any team in the B1G the past few seasons.

Just my $0.02

 

[seansherm]

Perhaps because Omoruyi, other than his terrific blocked shot rate, which provided good help defense, was simply awful in his on ball defense against opposing post players.

I know you have seen my other posts pre-season going through omoruyi's defense game by game. He was outplayed by nearly every opposing center who had a pulse. Often by a large margin. Maybe that was not his fault, because unlike in the prior 2 seasons he did not have good help defenders to help HIM, such as McConnell and mulcahy.

Even so, he was terrible defensively other than blocked shots. And unfortunately, omoruyi did not have any offensive skills to offset his poor defense. If he kept up giving up 15-20 points and 12+ rebounds to the opposing center, one way to offset that would have been to score and rebound that much against those players. But I do not think.Omoruyi had a single game when he did that.

Cliff wasn't great at on man D, but was an excellent help defender

 

[BillyC80]

Help defense has more positive outcomes — switching, trapping, cutting off a path to the goal, deflecting the ball in the passing lanes, etc. —versus shot-blocking attempts, which have a few downsides — fouling (always in the act of shooting), whiffing and allowing an OReb (and possible putback), possibly 3-point or 4-point play.

In fact, if a guy has a path to the goal and he gets fouled by a help defender before the act of shooting, that form of aggressive D is more preferable to a shot-block attempt, until you get to 7 team fouls.

Our current lack of aggressive D, even to the point of fouling, is troubling. We literally had only 8 fouls the entire game against Merrimack, which is far too few, when optimum would be 6 non-shooting fouls per half.

 

[higgins3]

Of course not but the goal is to win and win big. Hopefully these two kids can take us to the promise land but rebounding and toughness inside is not part of this team as of yet. The point being the C position is a huge hole right now. Big Ten play will expose this.

Pikiell could have gotten another player but he stuck with Ogbole. He told us all last year and summer how good he would be, and now he is backtracking on him, lol. Happens every summer. He could have recruited, and not paid a player that was more serviceable. They will get exposed for sure, unless the team goes rebounding by committee.

 

[higgins3]

I feel like some people(possibly even myself) are setting themselves up for major disappointment with this year. I am not sure if it is Rutgers most talented team ever. Two big stars, but then after those two guys you have a lot of pieces to try to make fit. We shall see.

 

[goru7]

Great post highlighting the positive talent and in agreement with ACE and Dylan highlighting that talent.
We had z Coleman and Shields and we had Webb with Herve and Ax and we had Douby and Company.
But the thing missing which hasn’t happened much since 1998 is we are missing a shot blocker. From Hamady to Echnique to Myles and Cliff and others I missed in between we have had shot blockers that covered up defensive lapses. My only regret is we do not have one unless ACE plays some 5 which will hardly happen. Somerville watched the little point guard the other night go up for 2 layups and did not even try to block the shot.
But defense all of it , individually , as well as defensive rotations , pick and roll , is a work in progress.
However , your point is well stated. We have the most offensive weapons ever , with ACE and Dylan , 2 of the best in the country not just the conference , headlining. We have 3 point assassins in PJ and Zack and we have a young center with offensive ability and a handle in Lathan . I expect our offense will carry us over the top and those fans crying for our previous lockdown defense are going to be disappointed because it is not coming. But improvement on defense might be enough if we rebound the ball to go along with the offense. Hoping that theory plays out in Vegas as having the 2 best players on the floor every night gives you a good chance to win every night , and doing the little things would solidify the win.