There Is Hope

Knight Shift

Legend
May 19, 2011
67,592
61,535
113
Jersey Shore
I posted this in another thread, and the Part 1 is an almost verbatim repeat of that post. Part 2 is a comparison of two other coaches who had slow starts and succeeded. I'm not giving up on our current coach, but like many fans, the last few losses and this season has been disappointing, even though many fans predicted 4-8, but whatever.

For TL;DR-- Patience, grasshopper!

Part 1- A Comparison of Years 3 and 4 of Greg 1.0 to Year 3 of Greg 2.0:
As a poster who got absolutely lambasted and crucified for "defending" Flood and Ash a few years into to each of their tenures, I am not ready to throw in the towel. I was called a Floodie, an Ashie and other things, but I survived. Greg Schiano got Rutgers back to respectability once before, and he can do it again. But IMO, as we are seeing, it may not be a pretty ride. It will be like riding from Cape May to Alpine, NJ but taking detours through the worst sections of Atlantic City, Trenton, Newark, and Paterson to get there. There are/will be bumps in the road and unhappy moments.

Let's take a look at year 3 (2003) of Schiano 1.0 for comparison:

5-7 record, 2-5 in conference.
Wins against horrific 1-11 Buffalo, 0-13 Army, and 1-11 Temple, as well as 8-5 Navy (Coached by Paul Johnson) and 6-6 Syracuse. Against 9 non-horrific teams, Rutgers averaged 30 pts/game (28, 48, 22, 19, 32, 31, 25, 10 and 24). Comparing 2022, taking out the Wagner, Boston College and Temple games, and Rutgers has scored on average 13 points per game. Well, this comparison to year 3 of Schiano 1.0 already is not going so well, but I will plod on.

Our starting QB in 2003 was a young Ryan Hart, who after his Freshman year (2002) going 51/111 (45.9%) with 2 TDs and 6 INTs in 2002, he stepped up in 2003 as a sophomore going 234/398 (58.8%) for 2714 yds, but 15 TDs/18 INTs. He did not have a positive TD/INT ratio until 2005, with that ratio being 17/19 in 2004.

On to 2004. Rutgers took a step back, going 4-7/1-5 in conference. Taking horrific Temple out, Rutgers averaged 23 points per game, worse than 2003, and a WTF loss to New Hampshire. Maybe the year would have been better if Ryan Hart had a better TD/INT ratio?

Gavin did not look great yesterday with quite a few bad throws, but there were miscommunications and drops too. That aside, he has 132 passing attempts, and is 60/132(45.5%) with 5 TDs and 7 INTs. These stats are eerily similar to Ryan Hart's freshman stats. (I don't want to hear yeah, but Gavin played last year, and he's not really a freshman-that's BS. He was a kid and had 21 passing attempts).

Mike Teel has been brought up before. Mike Teel's freshman year, 2005, his stats were: 51/101 (50.5%,) 2 TDs and 10 INTs. Even in year 2, the magical 2006, Teel had 12 TDs and 13 INTs.

What does all this mean? Perhaps fans need to lower their expectations and get a little more realistic in their criticism of Wimsatt, especially against Michigan (#2 defense in the nation) and Penn State (#14 defense in the nation). Wimsatt spent a lot of last night under pressure and on the run. Far from ideal for a freshman QB.


Part 2-Coaches Who Had Slow Starts in Year 1-3 vs. A Coach Who had Quicker Success:
I generally don't like comparisons, but here goes. Mark Stoops at Kentucky. Have a so-so year, but still not horrific for a middling SEC team. Why? Senior QB Will Levis. Transfer from PSU, had 102 passing attempts in 2 years at Penn State. In 2021, he lit it up at Kentucky. He took a step back this year. Maybe the moral of the story is to get a transfer QB from Penn State (joke). But let's get back to 2013-2015 under Stoops.

2013- their Junior QB Maxwell Smith was not terrible, but not great. He transferred and played for San Diego State in 2015
2014-15- sophomore Patrick Towles took over, and had a very good year with 14 TDs and 9 INTs, and he took a step back in his junior year in 2015 with 9 TDs and 14 INT. He transferred and finished at BC.
2016-17 Kentucky made it to a bowl. QB was Stephen Johnson, a transfer from Grambling, taking over after the starter got injured. Decent year with 13 TDs and 6 INTs, and a similar year in 2017, before he retired from football.

Magical 2018- wasn't exactly QB passing, but a lights out defense. Doesn't fit the narrative, but the starting QB was a freshman, who started in 2019 and 2020, before transferring. QB was mobile in 2018, gaining 547 yds (4.1/carry) and 4 TDs.
2021 was another great year, see above.

2013Kentucky2–100–87th (Eastern)
2014Kentucky5–72–66th (Eastern)
2015Kentucky5–72–6T–4th (Eastern)
2016Kentucky7–64–4T–2nd (Eastern)L TaxSlayer
2017Kentucky7–64–4T–3rd (Eastern)L Music City
2018Kentucky10–35–3T–2nd (Eastern)W Citrus1112
2019Kentucky8–53–5T–4th (Eastern)W Belk
2020Kentucky5–64–64th (Eastern)W Gator
2021Kentucky10–35–32nd (Eastern)W Citrus1518
2022Kentucky6–53–5T–4th (Eastern)


Perhaps a better comparison (maybe not because he is young), but here goes:

2018, after 3 terrible seasons under Gary Andersen (former Wisconsin HC), Smith had a terrible first year in 2018, a OK year 2 in 2019 and a not so good year in 2020, before hitting a good year, going 7-5/5-4 in the regular season and making a bowl.

2018- Oregon State was actually not bad on offense, but had a terrible defense in 2018, last in the PAC12. Their QB was mainly Jake Luton, in his Junior year, who briefly played in the NFL, and split time with Conor Blount. In his first full year, Luton had a 4 TD/4 INT ratio on 135 passing attempts.

2019- Better year, but still a bad defense and a decent offense. They beat Arizona State, their signature win in 2019. Starting QB was Luton, a senior with 28 TDs and 3 INTs.

2020- a step back, but beat a #15 Oregon, mind you in a Covid year when Oregon was 4-3. Not much to say about 2020.

2021- OSU goes bowling in year 4, going 7-5, beating South Division champion Utah and a descent Arizona State. Led by QB Change Nolan, who after 91 attempts in 2020 and a decent TD/INT ratio of 6/2, had a nice year, throwing for 2677 yards, 19 TDs and 10 INTs. They lost their bowl game.

2022- year 5, OSU is rolling, at 8-3/5-3 with wins against 7-4/4-4 Washington State and that's about it. Very favorable schedule. They finish against #12 Oregon next week. OSU switched QBs after Chance Nolan was injured. Classified as a freshman, Ben Gulbranson took snaps in 2020, and has done OK in 7 games 103/163 for 130 yards, 8 TDs and 3 INTs. Oregon State relying more on their rushing game than passing game this year, and a second rated defense in the PAC 12

2018Oregon State2–101–86th (North)
2019Oregon State5–74–5T–2nd (North)
2020Oregon State2–52–54th (North)
2021Oregon State7–65–43rd (North)L LA
2022Oregon State8–35–3
Oregon State:24–3117–25

Another data point is Justin Wilcox. No detailed analysis here, but Wilcox at Cal went from 5-7/2-7 in year one to a bowl game in year 2 to 7-6/4-4, and then 8-5/4-5 in year 3, giving Cal something to be optimistic about. It has gone sideways and downward from there.

2017California5–72–75th (North)
2018California7–64–55th (North)L Cheez-It
2019California8–54–5T–2nd (North)W Redbox
2020California1–31–3T–5th (North)
2021California5–74–54th (North)
2022California4–72–6
California:30–3517–31



The conclusion? It may take until year 4 or 5 to see the results we want and are long overdue, the last 3 years under Schiano. Yes, Stoops did not notch more than 2 SEC wins until year 4, same as Smith, while Wilcox had quick success and took a dive. I would take Stoops and Smith over Wilcox. Will Greg be on a similar trajectory? We shall see.

Frankly, I don't know if I can take another year like this year again next year. But I do think that either 2023 or 2024 we will take a step forward. But yeah, it sucks right now.

It's no secret that Rutgers needs to hit the portal hard for (1) a QB as either a starter or a serviceable backup (better than Vedral), WRs, TEs and more. We obviously don't have the talent to compete with the top 3 teams in the East and these game hurt a lot.

Onward/upward, and maybe sideways for bit. Keep chopping.
 
Last edited:

RU Husky

All Conference
Sep 26, 2011
4,518
1,857
113
Shift- Ore St is the most comparable model to emulate. But really, forget the W-L, it’s the entire look of the RU program that is so disturbing: lack of competitiveness against the better competition, abysmal offensive production, poor recruiting and portal use, lack of player development, poor strength and conditioning, dispirited fan base, poor coaching hires- it’s the whole enchilada. Ash sucked the life out of the program and IMHO Schiano has offered little reason to believe that he has what it takes time around to provide much hope for a successful revival.
 

Scarlet Blind

All Conference
Aug 5, 2001
3,361
3,147
113
47
2001-2003(2-19), 04(1-5), (2005-09,11 24-18), 2010(1-6)
Miami 0-3, X, (Cincy 2-4), 0-1
Va Tech 0-3, Conn 0-1, (UConn 4-2), 1-0
BC 0-3, 0-1, (Louisville 3-3), 0-1
WVU 0-3, 0-1, (0-6), 0-1
Pitt 0-3, 0-1, (5-1), 0-1
Syracuse 1-2, 0-1, (5-1), 0-1
Temple 1-2, 1-0, (USF 5-1), 0-1

B1G East 2022 is structured more like 2001-2003 Big East that anything 2004-2011 was.

Ohio St 0-9(0-3), Michigan 1-8(0-3), Penn St 0-9(0-3), Indiana 4-5(2-1), Michigan St 1-8(1-2) and Maryland 3-5(1-1, 1 left)

I don't see Rutgers beating Ohio St, Michigan or Penn St anytime soon, and that puts our ceiling at 9-3, and I wouldn't trust his coaching to win the other 3 in the East, the other 3 in the West and all three OOC games in any given year, so that would put his yearly record at 5-7 to 8-4 if we are lucky. Even in year 7 or 8. He didn't beat WVU once and we have 3 WVUs every year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jimpeg

Section124

All American
Gold Member
Dec 21, 2002
7,038
3,774
113
A better example is Frank Beamer at Virginia Tech. Although he had winning records in year 3 & 4, they didn’t go to a bowl. Took him until year 7 before his first bowl and the rest is history. It was another time but some on this board say this is a 7-8 year rebuild. I’ve been loyal for over 30 years but not sure I can handle that. Outside of the tailgates, the games are secondary it seems. I know at our tailgates, no one really talks about the game anymore. Ash killed that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: beaced

RU4Real

Hall of Famer
Jul 25, 2001
49,338
27,879
113
I predicted 4 wins this season. We will finish the season with 4 wins.

I also predict 4 wins next season. We shall see where that lands.

Point is, I think Greg's potential upside in the B1G-E is 7 wins and mostly what we'll see is between 4 and 6.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Knight Shift

Knight Shift

Legend
May 19, 2011
67,592
61,535
113
Jersey Shore
2001-2003(2-19), 04(1-5), (2005-09,11 24-18), 2010(1-6)
Miami 0-3, X, (Cincy 2-4), 0-1
Va Tech 0-3, Conn 0-1, (UConn 4-2), 1-0
BC 0-3, 0-1, (Louisville 3-3), 0-1
WVU 0-3, 0-1, (0-6), 0-1
Pitt 0-3, 0-1, (5-1), 0-1
Syracuse 1-2, 0-1, (5-1), 0-1
Temple 1-2, 1-0, (USF 5-1), 0-1

B1G East 2022 is structured more like 2001-2003 Big East that anything 2004-2011 was.

Ohio St 0-9(0-3), Michigan 1-8(0-3), Penn St 0-9(0-3), Indiana 4-5(2-1), Michigan St 1-8(1-2) and Maryland 3-5(1-1, 1 left)

I don't see Rutgers beating Ohio St, Michigan or Penn St anytime soon, and that puts our ceiling at 9-3, and I wouldn't trust his coaching to win the other 3 in the East, the other 3 in the West and all three OOC games in any given year, so that would put his yearly record at 5-7 to 8-4 if we are lucky. Even in year 7 or 8. He didn't beat WVU once and we have 3 WVUs every year.
Divisions go away in 2024.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jimpeg and mosito

Knight Shift

Legend
May 19, 2011
67,592
61,535
113
Jersey Shore
A better example is Frank Beamer at Virginia Tech. Although he had winning records in year 3 & 4, they didn’t go to a bowl. Took him until year 7 before his first bowl and the rest is history. It was another time but some on this board say this is a 7-8 year rebuild. I’ve been loyal for over 30 years but not sure I can handle that. Outside of the tailgates, the games are secondary it seems. I know at our tailgates, no one really talks about the game anymore. Ash killed that.
I thought about Beamer, but that was from a different era with no portal. But a good example nonetheless.
 

Knight Shift

Legend
May 19, 2011
67,592
61,535
113
Jersey Shore
Shift- Ore St is the most comparable model to emulate. But really, forget the W-L, it’s the entire look of the RU program that is so disturbing: lack of competitiveness against the better competition, abysmal offensive production, poor recruiting and portal use, lack of player development, poor strength and conditioning, dispirited fan base, poor coaching hires- it’s the whole enchilada. Ash sucked the life out of the program and IMHO Schiano has offered little reason to believe that he has what it takes time around to provide much hope for a successful revival.
Agreed on Oregon State, but don't necessarily agree about the entire look of the RU program in year 3. You are piling on with a bunch of crap on portal use, poor strength and conditioning (which is frankly absolute bullshit with no basis), poor coaching hires--the DC is doing a good job. Bad hires happen.

Take Locksley at Maryland, for example, who has done better at recruiting, but let's look at their year 3. Yes, they went 6-6 /3-6 in year 3 of Locksley, but:
Ohio State: 66-17
Michigan: 58-19
Penn State: 31-14
Iowa: 51-14

Penn State was closer than our Penn State game this year.

Their 6 wins:
West Virginia 30-24
Howard
Illinois
Kent State
Indiana
Rutgers

Bad hires? Locksley fired his OC after 2 years and brought in Dan Enos in year 3, bringing good results. I think it is fair to give Greg a chance to hire a new OC and see how that works out.

Not exactly murderer's row. But credit them with 6 wins and winning their bowl. The difference? Taulia was in his THIRD YEAR at QB. In 2020, he was 75/122 with 7 TDs/7 INTs in 3 starts (Gavin is at60/132(45.5%) with 5 TDs and 7 INTs. In 2021, he threw for 3860 yards 26 TD and 11 INTs. Taulia's terrible games? Against Ohio State with 2 INTs and Iowa (losing 51-14) with 5 INTs.

Is Gavin going to be the QB Taulia was in his third year? Probably not.

But I have provided numerous examples where QB performance improved significantly in year 2.5 to 3 of a QB's development. We should see better performance next year from Gavin. Can't emphasize that we have a lot of fans just piling on Gavin and giving up on him. He has not had enough experience.

Will it start to click for RU in year 4? Maybe. Year 5? It better, or perhaps RU will decide to make a change. But anything before year 4 is premature, and probably the same for anything before year 5.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mosito

mosito

Junior
Gold Member
Nov 2, 2006
983
298
63
I won't pass judgement until 2024. There will be some type of pods or lack of divisions. Having to to play the East team every years doesn't help in allowing us to build.

Expect next year to be tough too...

But if on Gavin's 3rd full year and slightly easier schedule doesn't result in a Bowl without blowout loses, I will agree that Schiano is not It.

Up until now I don't think any of the other coaches we considered would have made a difference.
 
Last edited:

Knight Shift

Legend
May 19, 2011
67,592
61,535
113
Jersey Shore
I won't pass judgement until 2024. There will be some type of pods or lak of divisions. Having to to play the East teams every years doesn't help in allowing us to build.

Expect next year to be tough too...

But if on Gavin's 3rd full year and slightly easier schedule doesn't result in a Bowl without blowout loses, I will agree that Schiano is not It.

Up until now I don't think any of the other coaches we considered would have made a difference.
I'm not a huge proponent of any coach. I was fairly neutral on Greg's hire, but I was on board once he was hired. I still think he can get us to a level of respectability, and but that and going further will depend on (1) portal success; (2) NIL success (which is out of Greg's control) and certainly not under fan control (3) Greg's ability to hire an OC and let the OC run the offense without too much meddling.

As far as the blowouts against Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State:
Penn State put up 41 points on Auburn, 45 on Minnesota, and 45 on Indiana. Less points on Maryland but they shut out Maryland on defense. Every game is it's own entity.

Michigan put up 41 points on Penn State, who scored the same number of points as Rutgers against Michigan.

Ohio State waxed Wisconsin, Michigan State, Penn State, and Indiana. And Iowa, who may win the West.

Stuff happens in games. Unfortunately, for Rutgers, stuff has seemed to happen in game like the Nebraska and Iowa games that led to losses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mosito

Knight Shift

Legend
May 19, 2011
67,592
61,535
113
Jersey Shore
One other point- someone criticized recruiting.
The 2022 class says hello- six 4 star recruits. And the class of 2021 had three 4 Star recruits.

The last time Rutgers had four 4 star recruits was 2009, and the last had five 4 star recruits was 2012. The last time Rutgers had six 4 star recruits was never.

From 2014 to 2020, Rutgers had exactly four 4 star recruits (not including Marques Ford).
 
  • Like
Reactions: redking and NBHPRU

rutgersguy1

Hall of Famer
Dec 17, 2008
34,248
11,039
113
I posted this in another thread, and the Part 1 is an almost verbatim repeat of that post. Part 2 is a comparison of two other coaches who had slow starts and succeeded. I'm not giving up on our current coach, but like many fans, the last few losses and this season has been disappointing, even though many fans predicted 4-8, but whatever.

For TL;DR-- Patience, grasshopper!

Part 1- A Comparison of Years 3 and 4 of Greg 1.0 to Year 3 of Greg 2.0:
As a poster who got absolutely lambasted and crucified for "defending" Flood and Ash a few years into to each of their tenures, I am not ready to throw in the towel. I was called a Floodie, an Ashie and other things, but I survived. Greg Schiano got Rutgers back to respectability once before, and he can do it again. But IMO, as we are seeing, it may not be a pretty ride. It will be like riding from Cape May to Alpine, NJ but taking detours through the worst sections of Atlantic City, Trenton, Newark, and Paterson to get there. There are/will be bumps in the road and unhappy moments.

Let's take a look at year 3 (2003) of Schiano 1.0 for comparison:

5-7 record, 2-5 in conference.
Wins against horrific 1-11 Buffalo, 0-13 Army, and 1-11 Temple, as well as 8-5 Navy (Coached by Paul Johnson) and 6-6 Syracuse. Against 9 non-horrific teams, Rutgers averaged 30 pts/game (28, 48, 22, 19, 32, 31, 25, 10 and 24). Comparing 2022, taking out the Wagner, Boston College and Temple games, and Rutgers has scored on average 13 points per game. Well, this comparison to year 3 of Schiano 1.0 already is not going so well, but I will plod on.

Our starting QB in 2003 was a young Ryan Hart, who after his Freshman year (2002) going 51/111 (45.9%) with 2 TDs and 6 INTs in 2002, he stepped up in 2003 as a sophomore going 234/398 (58.8%) for 2714 yds, but 15 TDs/18 INTs. He did not have a positive TD/INT ratio until 2005, with that ratio being 17/19 in 2004.

On to 2004. Rutgers took a step back, going 4-7/1-5 in conference. Taking horrific Temple out, Rutgers averaged 23 points per game, worse than 2003, and a WTF loss to New Hampshire. Maybe the year would have been better if Ryan Hart had a better TD/INT ratio?

Gavin did not look great yesterday with quite a few bad throws, but there were miscommunications and drops too. That aside, he has 132 passing attempts, and is 60/132(45.5%) with 5 TDs and 7 INTs. These stats are eerily similar to Ryan Hart's freshman stats. (I don't want to hear yeah, but Gavin played last year, and he's not really a freshman-that's BS. He was a kid and had 21 passing attempts).

Mike Teel has been brought up before. Mike Teel's freshman year, 2005, his stats were: 51/101 (50.5%,) 2 TDs and 10 INTs. Even in year 2, the magical 2006, Teel had 12 TDs and 13 INTs.

What does all this mean? Perhaps fans need to lower their expectations and get a little more realistic in their criticism of Wimsatt, especially against Michigan (#2 defense in the nation) and Penn State (#14 defense in the nation). Wimsatt spent a lot of last night under pressure and on the run. Far from ideal for a freshman QB.


Part 2-Coaches Who Had Slow Starts in Year 1-3 vs. A Coach Who had Quicker Success:
I generally don't like comparisons, but here goes. Mark Stoops at Kentucky. Have a so-so year, but still not horrific for a middling SEC team. Why? Senior QB Will Levis. Transfer from PSU, had 102 passing attempts in 2 years at Penn State. In 2021, he lit it up at Kentucky. He took a step back this year. Maybe the moral of the story is to get a transfer QB from Penn State (joke). But let's get back to 2013-2015 under Stoops.

2013- their Junior QB Maxwell Smith was not terrible, but not great. He transferred and played for San Diego State in 2015
2014-15- sophomore Patrick Towles took over, and had a very good year with 14 TDs and 9 INTs, and he took a step back in his junior year in 2015 with 9 TDs and 14 INT. He transferred and finished at BC.
2016-17 Kentucky made it to a bowl. QB was Stephen Johnson, a transfer from Grambling, taking over after the starter got injured. Decent year with 13 TDs and 6 INTs, and a similar year in 2017, before he retired from football.

Magical 2018- wasn't exactly QB passing, but a lights out defense. Doesn't fit the narrative, but the starting QB was a freshman, who started in 2019 and 2020, before transferring. QB was mobile in 2018, gaining 547 yds (4.1/carry) and 4 TDs.
2021 was another great year, see above.

2013Kentucky2–100–87th (Eastern)
2014Kentucky5–72–66th (Eastern)
2015Kentucky5–72–6T–4th (Eastern)
2016Kentucky7–64–4T–2nd (Eastern)L TaxSlayer
2017Kentucky7–64–4T–3rd (Eastern)L Music City
2018Kentucky10–35–3T–2nd (Eastern)W Citrus1112
2019Kentucky8–53–5T–4th (Eastern)W Belk
2020Kentucky5–64–64th (Eastern)W Gator
2021Kentucky10–35–32nd (Eastern)W Citrus1518
2022Kentucky6–53–5T–4th (Eastern)


Perhaps a better comparison (maybe not because he is young), but here goes:

2018, after 3 terrible seasons under Gary Andersen (former Wisconsin HC), Smith had a terrible first year in 2018, a OK year 2 in 2019 and a not so good year in 2020, before hitting a good year, going 7-5/5-4 in the regular season and making a bowl.

2018- Oregon State was actually not bad on offense, but had a terrible defense in 2018, last in the PAC12. Their QB was mainly Jake Luton, in his Junior year, who briefly played in the NFL, and split time with Conor Blount. In his first full year, Luton had a 4 TD/4 INT ratio on 135 passing attempts.

2019- Better year, but still a bad defense and a decent offense. They beat Arizona State, their signature win in 2019. Starting QB was Luton, a senior with 28 TDs and 3 INTs.

2020- a step back, but beat a #15 Oregon, mind you in a Covid year when Oregon was 4-3. Not much to say about 2020.

2021- OSU goes bowling in year 4, going 7-5, beating South Division champion Utah and a descent Arizona State. Led by QB Change Nolan, who after 91 attempts in 2020 and a decent TD/INT ratio of 6/2, had a nice year, throwing for 2677 yards, 19 TDs and 10 INTs. They lost their bowl game.

2022- year 5, OSU is rolling, at 8-3/5-3 with wins against 7-4/4-4 Washington State and that's about it. Very favorable schedule. They finish against #12 Oregon next week. OSU switched QBs after Chance Nolan was injured. Classified as a freshman, Ben Gulbranson took snaps in 2020, and has done OK in 7 games 103/163 for 130 yards, 8 TDs and 3 INTs. Oregon State relying more on their rushing game than passing game this year, and a second rated defense in the PAC 12

2018Oregon State2–101–86th (North)
2019Oregon State5–74–5T–2nd (North)
2020Oregon State2–52–54th (North)
2021Oregon State7–65–43rd (North)L LA
2022Oregon State8–35–3
Oregon State:24–3117–25

Another data point is Justin Wilcox. No detailed analysis here, but Wilcox at Cal went from 5-7/2-7 in year one to a bowl game in year 2 to 7-6/4-4, and then 8-5/4-5 in year 3, giving Cal something to be optimistic about. It has gone sideways and downward from there.

2017California5–72–75th (North)
2018California7–64–55th (North)L Cheez-It
2019California8–54–5T–2nd (North)W Redbox
2020California1–31–3T–5th (North)
2021California5–74–54th (North)
2022California4–72–6
California:30–3517–31



The conclusion? It may take until year 4 or 5 to see the results we want and are long overdue, the last 3 years under Schiano. Yes, Stoops did not notch more than 2 SEC wins until year 4, same as Smith, while Wilcox had quick success and took a dive. I would take Stoops and Smith over Wilcox. Will Greg be on a similar trajectory? We shall see.

Frankly, I don't know if I can take another year like this year again next year. But I do think that either 2023 or 2024 we will take a step forward. But yeah, it sucks right now.

It's no secret that Rutgers needs to hit the portal hard for (1) a QB as either a starter or a serviceable backup (better than Vedral), WRs, TEs and more. We obviously don't have the talent to compete with the top 3 teams in the East and these game hurt a lot.

Onward/upward, and maybe sideways for bit. Keep chopping.
Like I've said year 4 is the crucial one. Only 3 coaches I could find that lasted to year 5 after 4 straight below .500 regular seasons. You've given examples of coaches that had their first .500 or better regular season in that crucial year 4.

I've said before, I've always had hope. Too much despair when I see teams of our status having at least respectable results regardless of NIL/portal. Whether it's GS or someone in the future, the opportunity is there.

Duke at least a 7 win season in year 1 of Elko. they were winless in the ACC last year and 1 win in the ACC over 2 years, (we'll see if it continues but nonetheless nice job)

Kansas at least a 6 win season in year 2 of Elko, first in over a decade....a team that averaged less than 2 wins during that decade or so (got ranked temporarily too...again we'll see if it continues but nice job this year)

Oregon State 2nd straight bowl year and at least an 8 win season, Jonathan Smith got his first bowl last year (year 4)

WSU 7th straight bowl (if you don't want to include the 4 game pandemic year) or 7 out of 8 (which is still good) and this is a team that went through that whole controversy with Rolovich and lost a bunch of coaching staff but still managed to find a way

WF making a bowl 7 straight years (made his first in year 3) and a really stellar season (11 wins) in one of those years

Cuse getting 6 wins and a bowl this year after a hiatus of 3 years (got ranked temporarily too for the first time in a long time)

UK making a bowl 6 out of the last 7 years (Stoops made his first in year 4) and some double digit win seasons in there too

Miss State 2nd straight bowl year for them (Leach took til his 2nd year to make one there)

Illinois at least 7 wins in year 2 of Bielema and first bowl in quite awhile (ranked temporarily for the first time in a decade or so)

So it can be done, you can be respectable as program of our status and I see it happening across the landscape
 
  • Like
Reactions: RU Husky

jsol_05

All Conference
Gold Member
Jul 3, 2005
3,975
2,033
113
62
I posted this in another thread, and the Part 1 is an almost verbatim repeat of that post. Part 2 is a comparison of two other coaches who had slow starts and succeeded. I'm not giving up on our current coach, but like many fans, the last few losses and this season has been disappointing, even though many fans predicted 4-8, but whatever.

For TL;DR-- Patience, grasshopper!

Part 1- A Comparison of Years 3 and 4 of Greg 1.0 to Year 3 of Greg 2.0:
As a poster who got absolutely lambasted and crucified for "defending" Flood and Ash a few years into to each of their tenures, I am not ready to throw in the towel. I was called a Floodie, an Ashie and other things, but I survived. Greg Schiano got Rutgers back to respectability once before, and he can do it again. But IMO, as we are seeing, it may not be a pretty ride. It will be like riding from Cape May to Alpine, NJ but taking detours through the worst sections of Atlantic City, Trenton, Newark, and Paterson to get there. There are/will be bumps in the road and unhappy moments.

Let's take a look at year 3 (2003) of Schiano 1.0 for comparison:

5-7 record, 2-5 in conference.
Wins against horrific 1-11 Buffalo, 0-13 Army, and 1-11 Temple, as well as 8-5 Navy (Coached by Paul Johnson) and 6-6 Syracuse. Against 9 non-horrific teams, Rutgers averaged 30 pts/game (28, 48, 22, 19, 32, 31, 25, 10 and 24). Comparing 2022, taking out the Wagner, Boston College and Temple games, and Rutgers has scored on average 13 points per game. Well, this comparison to year 3 of Schiano 1.0 already is not going so well, but I will plod on.

Our starting QB in 2003 was a young Ryan Hart, who after his Freshman year (2002) going 51/111 (45.9%) with 2 TDs and 6 INTs in 2002, he stepped up in 2003 as a sophomore going 234/398 (58.8%) for 2714 yds, but 15 TDs/18 INTs. He did not have a positive TD/INT ratio until 2005, with that ratio being 17/19 in 2004.

On to 2004. Rutgers took a step back, going 4-7/1-5 in conference. Taking horrific Temple out, Rutgers averaged 23 points per game, worse than 2003, and a WTF loss to New Hampshire. Maybe the year would have been better if Ryan Hart had a better TD/INT ratio?

Gavin did not look great yesterday with quite a few bad throws, but there were miscommunications and drops too. That aside, he has 132 passing attempts, and is 60/132(45.5%) with 5 TDs and 7 INTs. These stats are eerily similar to Ryan Hart's freshman stats. (I don't want to hear yeah, but Gavin played last year, and he's not really a freshman-that's BS. He was a kid and had 21 passing attempts).

Mike Teel has been brought up before. Mike Teel's freshman year, 2005, his stats were: 51/101 (50.5%,) 2 TDs and 10 INTs. Even in year 2, the magical 2006, Teel had 12 TDs and 13 INTs.

What does all this mean? Perhaps fans need to lower their expectations and get a little more realistic in their criticism of Wimsatt, especially against Michigan (#2 defense in the nation) and Penn State (#14 defense in the nation). Wimsatt spent a lot of last night under pressure and on the run. Far from ideal for a freshman QB.


Part 2-Coaches Who Had Slow Starts in Year 1-3 vs. A Coach Who had Quicker Success:
I generally don't like comparisons, but here goes. Mark Stoops at Kentucky. Have a so-so year, but still not horrific for a middling SEC team. Why? Senior QB Will Levis. Transfer from PSU, had 102 passing attempts in 2 years at Penn State. In 2021, he lit it up at Kentucky. He took a step back this year. Maybe the moral of the story is to get a transfer QB from Penn State (joke). But let's get back to 2013-2015 under Stoops.

2013- their Junior QB Maxwell Smith was not terrible, but not great. He transferred and played for San Diego State in 2015
2014-15- sophomore Patrick Towles took over, and had a very good year with 14 TDs and 9 INTs, and he took a step back in his junior year in 2015 with 9 TDs and 14 INT. He transferred and finished at BC.
2016-17 Kentucky made it to a bowl. QB was Stephen Johnson, a transfer from Grambling, taking over after the starter got injured. Decent year with 13 TDs and 6 INTs, and a similar year in 2017, before he retired from football.

Magical 2018- wasn't exactly QB passing, but a lights out defense. Doesn't fit the narrative, but the starting QB was a freshman, who started in 2019 and 2020, before transferring. QB was mobile in 2018, gaining 547 yds (4.1/carry) and 4 TDs.
2021 was another great year, see above.

2013Kentucky2–100–87th (Eastern)
2014Kentucky5–72–66th (Eastern)
2015Kentucky5–72–6T–4th (Eastern)
2016Kentucky7–64–4T–2nd (Eastern)L TaxSlayer
2017Kentucky7–64–4T–3rd (Eastern)L Music City
2018Kentucky10–35–3T–2nd (Eastern)W Citrus1112
2019Kentucky8–53–5T–4th (Eastern)W Belk
2020Kentucky5–64–64th (Eastern)W Gator
2021Kentucky10–35–32nd (Eastern)W Citrus1518
2022Kentucky6–53–5T–4th (Eastern)


Perhaps a better comparison (maybe not because he is young), but here goes:

2018, after 3 terrible seasons under Gary Andersen (former Wisconsin HC), Smith had a terrible first year in 2018, a OK year 2 in 2019 and a not so good year in 2020, before hitting a good year, going 7-5/5-4 in the regular season and making a bowl.

2018- Oregon State was actually not bad on offense, but had a terrible defense in 2018, last in the PAC12. Their QB was mainly Jake Luton, in his Junior year, who briefly played in the NFL, and split time with Conor Blount. In his first full year, Luton had a 4 TD/4 INT ratio on 135 passing attempts.

2019- Better year, but still a bad defense and a decent offense. They beat Arizona State, their signature win in 2019. Starting QB was Luton, a senior with 28 TDs and 3 INTs.

2020- a step back, but beat a #15 Oregon, mind you in a Covid year when Oregon was 4-3. Not much to say about 2020.

2021- OSU goes bowling in year 4, going 7-5, beating South Division champion Utah and a descent Arizona State. Led by QB Change Nolan, who after 91 attempts in 2020 and a decent TD/INT ratio of 6/2, had a nice year, throwing for 2677 yards, 19 TDs and 10 INTs. They lost their bowl game.

2022- year 5, OSU is rolling, at 8-3/5-3 with wins against 7-4/4-4 Washington State and that's about it. Very favorable schedule. They finish against #12 Oregon next week. OSU switched QBs after Chance Nolan was injured. Classified as a freshman, Ben Gulbranson took snaps in 2020, and has done OK in 7 games 103/163 for 130 yards, 8 TDs and 3 INTs. Oregon State relying more on their rushing game than passing game this year, and a second rated defense in the PAC 12

2018Oregon State2–101–86th (North)
2019Oregon State5–74–5T–2nd (North)
2020Oregon State2–52–54th (North)
2021Oregon State7–65–43rd (North)L LA
2022Oregon State8–35–3
Oregon State:24–3117–25

Another data point is Justin Wilcox. No detailed analysis here, but Wilcox at Cal went from 5-7/2-7 in year one to a bowl game in year 2 to 7-6/4-4, and then 8-5/4-5 in year 3, giving Cal something to be optimistic about. It has gone sideways and downward from there.

2017California5–72–75th (North)
2018California7–64–55th (North)L Cheez-It
2019California8–54–5T–2nd (North)W Redbox
2020California1–31–3T–5th (North)
2021California5–74–54th (North)
2022California4–72–6
California:30–3517–31



The conclusion? It may take until year 4 or 5 to see the results we want and are long overdue, the last 3 years under Schiano. Yes, Stoops did not notch more than 2 SEC wins until year 4, same as Smith, while Wilcox had quick success and took a dive. I would take Stoops and Smith over Wilcox. Will Greg be on a similar trajectory? We shall see.

Frankly, I don't know if I can take another year like this year again next year. But I do think that either 2023 or 2024 we will take a step forward. But yeah, it sucks right now.

It's no secret that Rutgers needs to hit the portal hard for (1) a QB as either a starter or a serviceable backup (better than Vedral), WRs, TEs and more. We obviously don't have the talent to compete with the top 3 teams in the East and these game hurt a lot.

Onward/upward, and maybe sideways for bit. Keep chopping.
Man like your analysis;however, that is past history. It has nothing to do what is happening know, also if you want to go back to GS1.0. You have to mention that we are helped by Miami and VaTech leaving the Big East. No one is leaving the Big 10.
 

Knight Shift

Legend
May 19, 2011
67,592
61,535
113
Jersey Shore
Man like your analysis;however, that is past history. It has nothing to do what is happening know, also if you want to go back to GS1.0. You have to mention that we are helped by Miami and VaTech leaving the Big East. No one is leaving the Big 10.
Cat What GIF by truth
 

Knight Shift

Legend
May 19, 2011
67,592
61,535
113
Jersey Shore
Man like your analysis;however, that is past history. It has nothing to do what is happening know, also if you want to go back to GS1.0. You have to mention that we are helped by Miami and VaTech leaving the Big East. No one is leaving the Big 10.
Willie Fritz came close at Tulane, and year 6 was a stinker. Hard to fathom he is making under $2M a year and nobody has scooped him up.

2016Tulane4–81–76th (West)
2017Tulane5–73–55th (West)
2018Tulane7–65–3T–1st (West)W Cure
2019Tulane7–63–54th (West)W Armed Forces
2020Tulane6–63–5T–7thL Famous Idaho Potato
2021Tulane2–101–7T–9th
2022Tulane9–26–1
Tulane:40–4522–33
 

rutgersguy1

Hall of Famer
Dec 17, 2008
34,248
11,039
113
Willie Fritz came close at Tulane, and year 6 was a stinker. Hard to fathom he is making under $2M a year and nobody has scooped him up.

2016Tulane4–81–76th (West)
2017Tulane5–73–55th (West)
2018Tulane7–65–3T–1st (West)W Cure
2019Tulane7–63–54th (West)W Armed Forces
2020Tulane6–63–5T–7thL Famous Idaho Potato
2021Tulane2–101–7T–9th
2022Tulane9–26–1
Tulane:40–4522–33
He's like Leipold. Not a sexy name out there but potentially a good coach at the P5 level. Hard to know for sure how any of them will do but they only get chances at the lowest rungs.

You know I was reading Leipold interviewed at Vandy and Illinois. Elko at Kansas and Temple. It's basically the bottom rung that MIGHT give a non sexy name a chance and even then it's hard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Knight Shift

Scarlet Blind

All Conference
Aug 5, 2001
3,361
3,147
113
47
Divisions go away in 2024.
In 2024, adding coaches like Lincoln Riley and Chip Kelly are moving Schiano down the list of head coaches lower on the totem pole. UCLA and USC are 2 more teams yearly recruit better than Schiano and Rutgers.

16 teams, 15 opponents
8 groups of 2 teams
Most logical set up, 3 teams you play each year the other 12 teams, 6 groups, you play 2X(H/R) every 4 years home and road for the other 6 games. 9 game schedule.

We are going to play the same teams each year closest geographically.
(#1{Ohio St, UM}, #8{Maryland, Rutgers}), 3 games

I think the B1G will make the.geographical exception to keep UM/Ohio St game each year week 12, instead of tOSU,PSU, and UM,MSU. They could move Penn St/Mich St into our group instead but I think Ohio St and UM would huff and puff to play Maryland/Rutgers each year than Indiana/Purdue

Other geographical groups,
(#2{USC, UCLA}, #7{Nebraska, Iowa})
(#3{Wisc, Minn}, #6{Illinois, NW})
(#4{Penn St, Mich St}, #5{Indiana, Purdue})
Think of it as seeding in a NCAA tournament, they might move a team, Iowa is a possibility, but doubtful.

OSU/UM/MD / OSU/UM/MD / OSU/UM/MD / OSU/UM/MD
PSU/Indiana or MSU/Purdue or MSU/Indiana or Penn St/Purdue
Wisc/Illinois or Minn/NW or Minn/Illinois or Wisc/NW
USC/Nebraska or UCLA/Iowa or UCLA/Nebr or USC/Iowa

I don't like any of those 4 scenarios for a 9 game schedule every 2 years, 5 home, 4 road or 4 home, 5 road. They aren't gift wrapping 3 easy opponents for us each year, we are the easy opponent for the top of the league and will be after 2024. It doesn't excite my chances of winning 9 or more for the next 5 years of Schiano. His ceiling will be 4-5, 5-4 in conference, maybe a 2006 exception year will happen again once, and hope for 3 non conference cupcakes, 7-5, 8-4 tops 2024-28. He is lingering around 50 in recruiting for 2023, the class that will be seniors in 2026 or 2027. I give him credit for a top 30-35 2022 class that might lead to that exception year in 2025 or 2026, but it takes him 6 years to get one, 2001-2006, 2007-2012(after he left). 2020-2025?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Knight Shift

Yeah Baby

Heisman Winner
Aug 14, 2001
18,569
5,425
113
Some of our negative fans are really immature. They’re old in age but mentally infantile. I too root for Rutgers and supported Flood and Ash hoping they could get it done. In all cases including now I really only want to win and don’t care who the coach is and care even less what some of these so called fans think.

I’m not giving up on Schiano. I predicted 5-6 wins and we had our chances and still have one more chance. I knew our margin for error was slim. Everything had to go our way. Some things did and some did not. I see some good things and I see a widening gap to the Top 3 teams which we have been forced to ply every year. I’m not expecting any miracles but want more wins.

Negative fans predicted 2 wins and are still complaining. We can’t fix them they are broken. All we can do is root for RU to win every week.
 
Last edited:

DJ Spanky

The Lunatic is in my Head
Moderator
Jul 25, 2001
58,518
31,470
113
On to 2004. Rutgers took a step back, going 4-7/1-5 in conference. Taking horrific Temple out, Rutgers averaged 23 points per game, worse than 2003, and a WTF loss to New Hampshire. Maybe the year would have been better if Ryan Hart had a better TD/INT ratio?

Just to put some context to this, though, we were 4-2 after defeating Temple on Homecoming. But after the game, we lost 3 DB's (Eddie Grimes, Dondre Asberry and Manny Collins) to that horrible accident with the drunk driver on the John Lynch Bridge. We went 0-5 after that to finish out the season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Knight Shift

Knight Shift

Legend
May 19, 2011
67,592
61,535
113
Jersey Shore
Just to put some context to this, though, we were 4-2 after defeating Temple on Homecoming. But after the game, we lost 3 DB's (Eddie Grimes, Dondre Asberry and Manny Collins) to that horrible accident with the drunk driver on the John Lynch Bridge. We went 0-5 after that to finish out the season.
Good catch. I was hoping people would fill in the gaps. And there are probably more.

My 150 page dissertation on what it takes to suck or not with precise page and paragraph citations should be out in 2056 after I retire. Stay tuned.
 
  • Like
Reactions: colbert17

ClassOf02

Heisman Winner
Sep 30, 2010
10,858
10,553
113
I too have found myself often comparing the tough years of Schiano 1.0 to where we are today, probably in an attempt to convince myself that the improvement is coming. It’s a reasonable way to look at things. But then I keep coming back to the fact that the game has completely changed. In the era of the transfer portal and NIL, I just don’t know that program building is what it used to be; it’s more about constructing a roster year by year. I don’t feel confident that a) we’ll keep the guys we need to in order to build year over year (I guess we’ll see) and b) we’ll be competitive enough on the recruiting trail or with $$. Add on top of that GS’s incredibly boring brand of offensive football compared to the way the game is played today and it’s hard for me to see us turning the corner in years 4 or 5. I will be very happy to be wrong about this.
 

Yeah Baby

Heisman Winner
Aug 14, 2001
18,569
5,425
113
Just to put some context to this, though, we were 4-2 after defeating Temple on Homecoming. But after the game, we lost 3 DB's (Eddie Grimes, Dondre Asberry and Manny Collins) to that horrible accident with the drunk driver on the John Lynch Bridge. We went 0-5 after that to finish out the season.
This is true but the schedule always gets tougher at the end and we had a lot of key injuries this year too.

Every team goes up and down. Clemson and Bama are down. Of course we would love to have their worst years as our best years but the point is it’s impossible to only go up. Someone’s gotta win and someone’s gotta lose every game that is played.
 

DJ Spanky

The Lunatic is in my Head
Moderator
Jul 25, 2001
58,518
31,470
113
This is true but the schedule always gets tougher at the end and we had a lot of key injuries this year too.

Yeah, but that was brutal. Not only did it cast a pall over the team (and let's not forget all the time Schiano spent with Asberry until he was out of ICU), but we were already thin at DB before that accident. I think the first game after that Pitt just picked us apart. Absolutely agree we weren't that good, but I think we could have squeezed at least 1 more win out of those final 5 games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Knight Shift

Yeah Baby

Heisman Winner
Aug 14, 2001
18,569
5,425
113
Yeah, but that was brutal. Not only did it cast a pall over the team (and let's not forget all the time Schiano spent with Asberry until he was out of ICU), but we were already thin at DB before that accident. I think the first game after that Pitt just picked us apart. Absolutely agree we weren't that good, but I think we could have squeezed at least 1 more win out of those final 5 games.
I totally agree. We were pretty good and not great at that point. You make the point that we lacked depth and that has been true for most years except I would say 2006-2014 and even within that span some years lacked depth in position groups.

This year 3 key injuries happened before the season started and then a couple of key injuries during the season. None were emotional but losing 3 good, experienced players and 2 very talented Freshman didn’t help us at all. Abraham and Brown both played in a couple of winnable games but missed MSU. Toure and Walker did not playat all. Vedral tried but couldn’t play. I am probably missing others but I think guys came back like Longerbeam. QB is a critical position but glass being half full we got a lot of experience for Simon and Wimsatt.
 

Rufaninga

All Conference
Oct 8, 2010
3,007
3,102
113
I think your freshman QB comparison is fine.
What does it really mean?

It means we should have a better upperclassmen QB option that should be starting.( If we want to Win that year)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Knight Shift

RUforlife

All Conference
Oct 27, 2002
2,785
3,463
113
I totally agree. We were pretty good and not great at that point. You make the point that we lacked depth and that has been true for most years except I would say 2006-2014 and even within that span some years lacked depth in position groups.

This year 3 key injuries happened before the season started and then a couple of key injuries during the season. None were emotional but losing 3 good, experienced players and 2 very talented Freshman didn’t help us at all. Abraham and Brown both played in a couple of winnable games but missed MSU. Toure and Walker did not playat all. Vedral tried but couldn’t play. I am probably missing others but I think guys came back like Longerbeam. QB is a critical position but glass being half full we got a lot of experience for Simon and Wimsatt.
All college football teams suffer roster changing injuries throughout the year. The OP provided a very comprehensive and I assume time consuming analysis which he is to be commended, great fan, great job. However, it is totally irrelevant given the fact that Schiano 2.0 has had the benefit of the TP and has failed to attract the necessary talent to allow us to even climb out of the basement of our division. This "rebuild" has been a total and absolute failure, there is just no getting around it. The OP is comparing apples to oranges, the college football world between Schiano 1.0 and 2.0 had a seismic shift due to the TP, comparisons are basically useless.
 

nick614

Junior
Oct 19, 2014
508
167
43
Rutgers will have a better time when the west schools join and the divisions go away. Will also have a lot more $.
 

rutgersguy1

Hall of Famer
Dec 17, 2008
34,248
11,039
113
Rutgers will have a better time when the west schools join and the divisions go away. Will also have a lot more $.
Many are looking to that but someone posted we’re actually winless during our tenure vs 5 B10 west teams. I didnt even realize. On balance it probably will be helpful but maybe not as much as people think.

Also USC/UCLA are the type of teams I worry about more than others save OSU. Consistent strong productive offenses are the ones I think we’d have trouble against because we can’t keep up.

We just have to get better rather than hoping the competition gets easier.
 

Yeah Baby

Heisman Winner
Aug 14, 2001
18,569
5,425
113
All college football teams suffer roster changing injuries throughout the year. The OP provided a very comprehensive and I assume time consuming analysis which he is to be commended, great fan, great job. However, it is totally irrelevant given the fact that Schiano 2.0 has had the benefit of the TP and has failed to attract the necessary talent to allow us to even climb out of the basement of our division. This "rebuild" has been a total and absolute failure, there is just no getting around it. The OP is comparing apples to oranges, the college football world between Schiano 1.0 and 2.0 had a seismic shift due to the TP, comparisons are basically useless.
Sorry but when I read your posts I envision a big baby pounding his fists demanding more like Barooka. No insight to the game of Football. No idea what we need to do to get it done. Just “I want it now.” Just like Barooka.
 

Knight Shift

Legend
May 19, 2011
67,592
61,535
113
Jersey Shore
All college football teams suffer roster changing injuries throughout the year. The OP provided a very comprehensive and I assume time consuming analysis which he is to be commended, great fan, great job. However, it is totally irrelevant given the fact that Schiano 2.0 has had the benefit of the TP and has failed to attract the necessary talent to allow us to even climb out of the basement of our division. This "rebuild" has been a total and absolute failure, there is just no getting around it. The OP is comparing apples to oranges, the college football world between Schiano 1.0 and 2.0 had a seismic shift due to the TP, comparisons are basically useless.
TP- toilet paper?

Maybe the transfer portal?

Do you watch the games?
Cruickshank? Ryan? Ireland Brown? Langan? Maijeh? DiRenzo? Braswell? Avery?

And is it his fault Taj Harris bailed?
 

RUforlife

All Conference
Oct 27, 2002
2,785
3,463
113
TP- toilet paper?

Maybe the transfer portal?

Do you watch the games?
Cruickshank? Ryan? Ireland Brown? Langan? Maijeh? DiRenzo? Braswell? Avery?

And is it his fault Taj Harris bailed?
TP was too tough of an abbreviation for you? Well, that figures, yes, TP stands for, now say it slowly, Transfer Portal.
 

RUforlife

All Conference
Oct 27, 2002
2,785
3,463
113
Sorry but when I read your posts I envision a big baby pounding his fists demanding more like Barooka. No insight to the game of Football. No idea what we need to do to get it done. Just “I want it now.” Just like Barooka.
No, what is strange to you, is a Rutgers fan not this not willing to settle for being a bottom feeder year in, and year out, just so that they can have their guy play head coach. You are just not used to a Rutgers fan, and there are actually many, believe it or not, that is sick of putting hero worship ahead of winning.
 

RobertG

All American
Gold Member
Jul 25, 2001
9,678
5,414
113
All college football teams suffer roster changing injuries throughout the year. The OP provided a very comprehensive and I assume time consuming analysis which he is to be commended, great fan, great job. However, it is totally irrelevant given the fact that Schiano 2.0 has had the benefit of the TP and has failed to attract the necessary talent to allow us to even climb out of the basement of our division. This "rebuild" has been a total and absolute failure, there is just no getting around it. The OP is comparing apples to oranges, the college football world between Schiano 1.0 and 2.0 had a seismic shift due to the TP, comparisons are basically useless.

I think fans think to highly of the transfer portal. The transfer portal is good for filling in spots if there is somebody available and better that your current roster but that is not always the case. Rebuilding an entire offensive line or replacing the WR core is not going to happen unless you have bags of NIL money and you can go shopping around the league
 

Knight Shift

Legend
May 19, 2011
67,592
61,535
113
Jersey Shore
TP was too tough of an abbreviation for you? Well, that figures, yes, TP stands for, now say it slowly, Transfer Portal.
Hey eeyore, I figured it out, but as usual, you never address the substance of a response. Just negativity all the time with you- change your screen name to RUfordeath, it is more appropriate. Holy smokes are you a party.
 

RUforlife

All Conference
Oct 27, 2002
2,785
3,463
113
Hey eeyore, I figured it out, but as usual, you never address the substance of a response. Just negativity all the time with you- change your screen name to RUfordeath, it is more appropriate. Holy smokes are you a party.
But as usual, all you can do is resort to personal attacks if a poster dares point out the failures of your leader. So go at it, that is who you are, Internet tough guys and bullies don't intimidate me.
 

Knight Shift

Legend
May 19, 2011
67,592
61,535
113
Jersey Shore
But as usual, all you can do is resort to personal attacks if a poster dares point out the failures of your leader. So go at it, that is who you are, Internet tough guys and bullies don't intimidate me.
Hey eeyore, he is not "my leader," "my hero" or any of the same tropes you trot out in nearly every post. Why are you here? And why are you "RUforlife?" Hysterical name, considering your posts.

You really think Rutgers should fire a coach with an 8 year contract 3 years into the contract? Brilliant!! You have money to donate to that cause? You should know that is not how it works at Rutgers. Rutgers is not Auburn or Nebraska or Wisconsin with donors that fire coaches on whim an pony up millions of dollars to fund such firings.

So rather than relying on the same old tropes and repetitive nonsense, how about accepting the fact that the current coach will have a least 2 more years to get the program back to a decent W-L record. Is that reasonable, or are you just going to be a misery until he gets fired? Do you think any fans are happy with 4-7 and 1 win in conference in year 3? Nope. But it is where we are at. Deal with it.
 

RUforlife

All Conference
Oct 27, 2002
2,785
3,463
113
Hey eeyore, he is not "my leader," "my hero" or any of the same tropes you trot out in nearly every post. Why are you here? And why are you "RUforlife?" Hysterical name, considering your posts.

You really think Rutgers should fire a coach with an 8 year contract 3 years into the contract? Brilliant!! You have money to donate to that cause? You should know that is not how it works at Rutgers. Rutgers is not Auburn or Nebraska or Wisconsin with donors that fire coaches on whim an pony up millions of dollars to fund such firings.

So rather than relying on the same old tropes and repetitive nonsense, how about accepting the fact that the current coach will have a least 2 more years to get the program back to a decent W-L record. Is that reasonable, or are you just going to be a misery until he gets fired? Do you think any fans are happy with 4-7 and 1 win in conference in year 3? Nope. But it is where we are at. Deal with it.
I am here because I am fan, alum, a legacy, and I don't have to justify my support of all things Rutgers to the likes of you. Who the hell are you, the gatekeeper to Rutgers fandom? I for one am not satisfied with watching my beloved program consistently be at the bottom of our division table, sorry, if that is okay with you. In my opinion, and I think the stats and record backs it up, this current coach does not have the ability to deliver a winner to this program, really as simple as that. This coach has also brilliantly, because that is his strength, developed a personality cult among some in the fanbase. Like I said, he is a figure out of central casting, he knows exactly what to say and how to act to appeal to a certain segment of our fanbase. God bless him, he takes care of himself and his family, but all I care about is this institution, not one man. So, if you can't handle that, so be it, I can put up with your personal crap, doesn't bother me, I will continue to promote the notion that we can do better, and we need to do better for this program to be a winner.
 

Knight Shift

Legend
May 19, 2011
67,592
61,535
113
Jersey Shore
I am here because I am fan, alum, a legacy, and I don't have to justify my support of all things Rutgers to the likes of you. Who the hell are you, the gatekeeper to Rutgers fandom? I for one am not satisfied with watching my beloved program consistently be at the bottom of our division table, sorry, if that is okay with you. In my opinion, and I think the stats and record backs it up, this current coach does not have the ability to deliver a winner to this program, really as simple as that. This coach has also brilliantly, because that is his strength, developed a personality cult among some in the fanbase. Like I said, he is a figure out of central casting, he knows exactly what to say and how to act to appeal to a certain segment of our fanbase. God bless him, he takes care of himself and his family, but all I care about is this institution, not one man. So, if you can't handle that, so be it, I can put up with your personal crap, doesn't bother me, I will continue to promote the notion that we can do better, and we need to do better for this program to be a winner.
You have reading comprehension problems. Who is satisfied with 4-7 and 1-7? Nobody that I know of. Do you read what you respond to, or just lash out with more insults and accusations? Did you read the part about how Rutgers will never fire a coach with 5 years remaining on their contract, unless there is some sort of scandal or violation such as what happened with Flood. It is not happening. You keep making accusations about a personality cult and throw around phrases like "your hero" and "your leader" as a defensive mechanism, when very few if any fans think of him as such. Sure, perhaps we can do better, but are YOU going to do something other than whine and cry for the next 2 years? Make a donation to support a buyout? Probably not. This conversation is not productive. I wish you well with your issues. Have a nice day and a Happy Thanksgiving. Don't obsess too much over Rutgers football. It hurts all of us, but apparently it hurts you a lot more.