This is what rebuilding looks like

[MorrisAsh]

It looks like we will be losing a couple more commits and will end up with an average class at best on paper. Expect more guys to leave the program this spring. There is certainly a talent gap and depth gap as a result of the2013-2015 recruiting classes. That has unavoidable consequences on the field; you can't hide from it in the BiG.

This is a rebuilding effort. It will certainly take time because Coach Ash doesn't seem like he is willing to consider cutting corners. I think he knew what he was in for when he came here. I hope that we also understand that rebuilding this team won't be done 13 months from now. It will take time.

I will say two things:
-I think this staff may be more likely to steal a win than the previous session staff was
-from first impressions, I wouldn't trade Coach Ash for Temple's or PSU's HCs (Franklin has one more mediocre season and he's gone).

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Well, yeah, I think we're all well aware of this but why on Earth are you even throwing "Temple" into the staff equation? LOL!

BTW - still trying to figure out why you lied about the # of coaches at last week's meeting.

 

[MozRU]

No idea what the point of this thread is. If you follow RU you know all of this.

So, thanks Captain Obivious

 

[FanuSanu52]

This thread ... is poop.

 

[oldtimer67]

This is a very important thread for most of this board. Especially all of those who are going to melt down with the next couple of decommits and the lack of amazing recruiting miracles in the two weeks before signing day. It will all be Ash's fault and evidence that he is a terrible recruiter and closer.

Of course, all that will be the typical overreaction and not evidence of anything in this short time, but that won't stop the chicken littles from their tantrums.

The simple fact is the under Flood the devastation had just started. 2015 was the beginning of a downward spiral that would have taken a decade to reverse. This year we will hit bottom years earlier than we would have under Flood. The best point to remember is that you can't start climbing up until you hit the bottom. Starting with the Class of 2017 we will have our full scholarship allotment available and the Ash era, with Ash type recruits, will begin.

Ash has said it so many times I don't know how it can be missed, but this Spring will be for separating those who are committed and want to be here from those who don't. I fully expect that we will start next season with less than 85 scholarship players. Think of it like Charlie Strong at Texas with players leaving.

It is all for the best, but as the saying goes, no pain, no gain. Everyone wants to win a division championship, or at least be competitive with every team in the division. You can't do that with Flood's approach or Flood's players. Cleanse the program. Get a base of players to build on and be next years leaders for those who follow. Start it now, not later.

 

[RUNVA]

I felt from the time we entered into the BIG it would take ten years for us to be very competitive. My boss's husband is a BIG alumni and asked why. I said it would take 4 years under the current coach and AD before they where fired, then 4 years for the new coach/AD to build, with the last two showing the fruits of their labor. I may be a little off, but we will,have to see.

 

[NorthNJRUFan]

Great insights!!!

Can we create a "dislike" button?

 

[St_Henry_Buckeye]

Could be worse. You could be Maryland. They were pillaged yesterday and lost their two best recruits. Life in the B1G. You will be fine.

 

[NickyNewark51]

I felt from the time we entered into the BIG it would take ten years for us to be very competitive. My boss's husband is a BIG alumni and asked why. I said it would take 4 years under the current coach and AD before they where fired, then 4 years for the new coach/AD to build, with the last two showing the fruits of their labor. I may be a little off, but we will,have to see.

i hope not that long...i'm 64 and not guaranteed to see it..though i feel pretty decent...

 

[zappaa]

What recruits are decommiting? What current players are quitting?

 

[RU205]

Thanks for letting me know Ash needs to rebuild. I guess I should change my 10 win expectation for 2016.

 

[ElmiraExpress]

Thanks for letting me know Ash needs to rebuild. I guess I should change my 10 win expectation for 2016.

not realistic to expect 10 wins

 

[RUChoppin]

not realistic to expect 10 wins

 

[NY AGENTMAN]

not realistic to expect 10 wins

Duh!

 

[ElmiraExpress]

Duh!

It was RU205 expecting 10 wins, not me

 

[RUChoppin]

It was RU205 expecting 10 wins, not me

Still. Missing. The. Sarcasm.

 

[Knight Shift]

It was RU205 expecting 10 wins, not me

Loser mentality. 12 wins or bust.

 

[RUsSKii]

Loser mentality. 12 wins or bust.

#Fight. We don't accept any losses here at Scarletnation. Those who do can #Flight.

 

[CranfordKnight]

Feels like we have someone personally connected to the staff working the spin room. Note the join date.

On a different note, I vaguely recall a BTN analyst who, during spring practice, noted that the RU team looked like a B1G football team talent-wise, and gave kudos to Flood for recruiting bigger and better for the new league. So what's changed in a year that we now have to wait years to rebuild the roster? Mark me down as one who thinks this staff can coach up the existing roster and not need 5 years to become competitive.

 

[njknightsfan]

Next year is going to be tough, Maybe there are 4 wins on the schedule, maybe less, it's how fast can we adapt to the new offense and defensive schemes. A realistic view is 4-8 for next year based on the schedule. I hope I'm wrong.

Feels like we have someone personally connected to the staff working the spin room. Note the join date.

On a different note, I vaguely recall a BTN analyst who, during spring practice, noted that the RU team looked like a B1G football team talent-wise, and gave kudos to Flood for recruiting bigger and better for the new league. So what's changed in a year that we now have to wait years to rebuild the roster? Mark me down as one who thinks this staff can coach up the existing roster and not need 5 years to become competitive.

 

[imbazza2]

What recruits are decommiting? What current players are quitting?

Rettig is going back to LSU's new Pro set look.:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:<< sarcasm icon, please use, many slow folks or no humor folks here

 

[ILOVERUTGERS]

Hope the fan base didn't believe the hashtag strategy was gonna suddenly wake up recruiting.....also think the stud corner from Florida is gone

 

[RU31trap]

Those of us who refused to drink the Kool-aid stayed away from "Ash will resurrect our program this year" knew that rebuilding Rutgers would take a Herculean effort. I have no idea whether he'll succeed or fail, but at the very least give him a chance. If we experience more of the same next year then I suggest we grab our pitch forks, hammers and sickles.

 

[derleider]

It looks like we will be losing a couple more commits and will end up with an average class at best on paper. Expect more guys to leave the program this spring. There is certainly a talent gap and depth gap as a result of the2013-2015 recruiting classes. That has unavoidable consequences on the field; you can't hide from it in the BiG.

This is a rebuilding effort. It will certainly take time because Coach Ash doesn't seem like he is willing to consider cutting corners. I think he knew what he was in for when he came here. I hope that we also understand that rebuilding this team won't be done 13 months from now. It will take time.

I will say two things:
-I think this staff may be more likely to steal a win than the previous session staff was
-from first impressions, I wouldn't trade Coach Ash for Temple's or PSU's HCs (Franklin has one more mediocre season and he's gone).

We had an average class before Flood left. What we will end up with is a fourth consecutive bottom of the barrel class.

Its not unexpected - but its puts in perspective how hard of a job this is for a first time HC. He's got to figure out how to be an HC, how to turn the product on the field around with talent that is worse than most of the division (and worse than what his predecessor had and failed with) while at the same time, trying to sell himself and the school to improve the talent. And he's got MAYBE 25 months from today to do it before ennui sets in among recruits and more or less dooms him to mediocrity or worse.

 

[Knight Shift]

Bottom of the Barrel? Rutgers was ahead of Wisconsin and/or Northwestern in several of the following years Recruiting rankings (according to Rivals)

2010 class--Wisconsin #13 in B1G, Northwestern #12, Rutgers #10
2011 class-Wisconsin #8, Northwestern #13, Rutgers #6
2012 class-Wisconsin #10, Northwestern#11, Rutgers #3
2013 class- WIsconsin #13, Northwestern #10, Rutgers #8
2014 class- WIsconsin #6, Northwestern #12, Rutgers #10

Assuming recruiting is a leading indicator of performance 2 years out (assume all new recruits redshirt), what was the result?

2013- Northwestern 5-7, Wisconsin 9-4
2014- Northwestern, 5-7; Wisconsin 11-3; Rutgers 8-5
2015- Northwestern, 10-3 (23); Wisconsin 10-3 (21); Rutgers 4-8
---------------
Maybe 2015 was an anomaly and Northwestern overperformed, or many of you will say they played in the weaker B1G west. Well, they beat Stanford, Wisconsin, and Penn State from the B1G East.
It's well known Wisconsin is good and coaching them up.
-------------------
Some of you guys can cry all you want and predict doomsday, but I am not going that route. Ash and his staff are going the Wisconsin/Northwestern route. 12-0 or bust.

 

[sodakboy93]

I said it before Flood was fired - this is something of a teardown and rebuild job. We're ahead of where we were at the end of the Terry Shea era, but we're significantly behind the majority of our conference.

I hope that Ash gets four years, because I really believe you're not going to see major progress (i.e., being a legitimate threat to the top teams in the Big Ten) for at least 2-3 years. It may even get worse before it gets better, ala Schiano in 2001-2002.

 

[RUChoppin]

Bottom of the Barrel? Rutgers was ahead of Wisconsin and/or Northwestern in several of the following years Recruiting rankings (according to Rivals)

2010 class--Wisconsin #13 in B1G, Northwestern #12, Rutgers #10
2011 class-Wisconsin #8, Northwestern #13, Rutgers #6
2012 class-Wisconsin #10, Northwestern#11, Rutgers #3
2013 class- WIsconsin #13, Northwestern #10, Rutgers #8
2014 class- WIsconsin #6, Northwestern #12, Rutgers #10

Assuming recruiting is a leading indicator of performance 2 years out (assume all new recruits redshirt), what was the result?

2013- Northwestern 5-7, Wisconsin 9-4
2014- Northwestern, 5-7; Wisconsin 11-3; Rutgers 8-5
2015- Northwestern, 10-3 (23); Wisconsin 10-3 (21); Rutgers 4-8
---------------
Maybe 2015 was an anomaly and Northwestern overperformed, or many of you will say they played in the weaker B1G west. Well, they beat Stanford, Wisconsin, and Penn State from the B1G East.
It's well known Wisconsin is good and coaching them up.
-------------------
Some of you guys can cry all you want and predict doomsday, but I am not going that route. Ash and his staff are going the Wisconsin/Northwestern route. 12-0 or bust.

You also left out the 2015 class
Wisconsin #5, Northwestern #12, Rutgers #10

Clearly NW performed better than the Rivals evaluations predicted. 3 of their 5 4* players in that span are seeing time on the field, and 2 are their starting QB and RB, which helps - but several of their 2* and 3* guys are performing well, especially on defense.

Putting those numbers in perspective nationally:
2010 - Wisconsin #88, Northwestern #77, Rutgers #64
2011 - Wisconsin #40, Northwestern #88, Rutgers #32
2012 - Wisconsin #57, Northwestern #61, Rutgers #24
2013 - Wisconsin #57, Northwestern #53, Rutgers #45
2014 - Wisconsin #33, Northwestern #68, Rutgers #57
2015 - Wisconsin #37, Northwestern #55, Rutgers #53
2016 - Wisconsin #29, Northwestern #39, Rutgers #79 (to date)

The bolded years are really where the 2016 teams will be, as the 2013 class will be seniors... though there will be some 5th year holdovers from 2012 (like Darius Hamilton and Chris Muller). It doesn't help us that our only two 4* players in that span (Barnwell and Ford) are no longer with the program.

Hopefully Ash and Co. can improve the 2016 class before signing day, but I think there are already several quality players on the roster that they can put in much better positions to succeed.

 

[cicero grimes]

I said it before Flood was fired - this is something of a teardown and rebuild job. We're ahead of where we were at the end of the Terry Shea era, but we're significantly behind the majority of our conference.

I hope that Ash gets four years, because I really believe you're not going to see major progress (i.e., being a legitimate threat to the top teams in the Big Ten) for at least 2-3 years. It may even get worse before it gets better, ala Schiano in 2001-2002.

This exactly. This is a 3-5 year rebuild. If coach Ash stabilizes the program this year that would be enough for year 1. I felt we were sinking under Flood even going back to our last year in the AAC.

 

[Knight Shift]

You also left out the 2015 class
Wisconsin #5, Northwestern #12, Rutgers #10

Clearly NW performed better than the Rivals evaluations predicted. 3 of their 5 4* players in that span are seeing time on the field, and 2 are their starting QB and RB, which helps - but several of their 2* and 3* guys are performing well, especially on defense.

Putting those numbers in perspective nationally:
2010 - Wisconsin #88, Northwestern #77, Rutgers #64
2011 - Wisconsin #40, Northwestern #88, Rutgers #32
2012 - Wisconsin #57, Northwestern #61, Rutgers #24
2013 - Wisconsin #57, Northwestern #53, Rutgers #45
2014 - Wisconsin #33, Northwestern #68, Rutgers #57
2015 - Wisconsin #37, Northwestern #55, Rutgers #53
2016 - Wisconsin #29, Northwestern #39, Rutgers #79 (to date)

The bolded years are really where the 2016 teams will be, as the 2013 class will be seniors... though there will be some 5th year holdovers from 2012 (like Darius Hamilton and Chris Muller). It doesn't help us that our only two 4* players in that span (Barnwell and Ford) are no longer with the program.

Hopefully Ash and Co. can improve the 2016 class before signing day, but I think there are already several quality players on the roster that they can put in much better positions to succeed.

I left out 2015, because there is no basis to evaluate it. The point is if Ash can develop the players and they can be coached up, it may not be all doom and gloom.

 

[RUChoppin]

I left out 2015, because there is no basis to evaluate it. The point is if Ash can develop the players and they can be coached up, it may not be all doom and gloom.

I don't know why there isn't a basis to evaluate it. Several of the 2015 recruits saw time this year, some saw significant time.

For Rutgers, Blessaun Austin, Jarius Adams, Jon Bateky, Ronnie James, Najee Clayton, Deonte Roberts, Dontae Owens, Anthony Folkerts, Trevor Morris... I'm sure I missed a couple.

Wisconsin had Alec Ingold and Chris Orr see a decent amount of time this season, as well as some others who saw the field. Northwestern didn't seem to have any breakout true freshmen, but a handful saw the field.

I agree, though, that the cupboard isn't bare (except maybe at LB it's fairly sparse), and it shouldn't be doom and gloom if Ash can get these guys going in the right direction. That won't be like turning on a light switch (though it may happen rapidly for some players in a new scheme), but hopefully it'll put them in a better position for success.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Still trying to figure out the poster, who is "new" - cough, cough - and his m.o. around here.

 

[jakeknight]

Watch the QB recruitment, if we can find a decent spread QB( we really need two in this class) then the process will be a quicker. I expect this staff to put a better product on the field in 2016 but that doesn't necessarily mean we win more than 4 games.

 

[czxqa]

Thanks for letting me know Ash needs to rebuild. I guess I should change my 10 win expectation for 2016.

Nah, just apply it to the basketball team...

 

[Knight Shift]

Nah, just apply it to the basketball team...

You may want to revise that one too. Sad, but likely.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Watch the QB recruitment, if we can find a decent spread QB( we really need two in this class) then the process will be a quicker. I expect this staff to put a better product on the field in 2016 but that doesn't necessarily mean we win more than 4 games.

Generally agree with this the ONLY thing that worries me is 3+ years of recruiting that, let's just say, leaves a lot to be concerned about DEPTH-wise.

 

[beaced]

Bottom of the Barrel? Rutgers was ahead of Wisconsin and/or Northwestern in several of the following years Recruiting rankings (according to Rivals)

2010 class--Wisconsin #13 in B1G, Northwestern #12, Rutgers #10
2011 class-Wisconsin #8, Northwestern #13, Rutgers #6
2012 class-Wisconsin #10, Northwestern#11, Rutgers #3
2013 class- WIsconsin #13, Northwestern #10, Rutgers #8
2014 class- WIsconsin #6, Northwestern #12, Rutgers #10

Assuming recruiting is a leading indicator of performance 2 years out (assume all new recruits redshirt), what was the result?

2013- Northwestern 5-7, Wisconsin 9-4
2014- Northwestern, 5-7; Wisconsin 11-3; Rutgers 8-5
2015- Northwestern, 10-3 (23); Wisconsin 10-3 (21); Rutgers 4-8
---------------
Maybe 2015 was an anomaly and Northwestern overperformed, or many of you will say they played in the weaker B1G west. Well, they beat Stanford, Wisconsin, and Penn State from the B1G East.
It's well known Wisconsin is good and coaching them up.
-------------------
Some of you guys can cry all you want and predict doomsday, but I am not going that route. Ash and his staff are going the Wisconsin/Northwestern route. 12-0 or bust.

 

[BoogieKnight]

Generally agree with this the ONLY thing that worries me is 3+ years of recruiting that, let's just say, leaves a lot to be concerned about DEPTH-wise.

You are right. But I like where he is starting to build...before all is said and done we may have 5 or 6 linebackers in this 2016 class, all 3-star caliber. Next on priority list is QB and I'm guessing we do indeed pull in 2 QB's in this class, again probably both of 3-star caliber. Next up is OL and then DL although I think DL with younger guys like Wilkins, Bateky, Hogan and Seymour may be ok for the next 2 years or so. I know people have their panties in a bunch about WR's and DB's but in all honesty you can scheme to maximize your personnel there if you know what you are doing. Hell, Schiano did in 2005 and 2006 with solid but not great defensive secondary personnel/depth. And WR is a position where kids can play as underclassmen and contribute right away. QB, OL and the front 7 on D is much, much more difficult to coach up if you don't have depth/the horses you need.

I think we can win 5 games next year. The B1G analysts were not wrong...there are some players on this roster; they were just horribly coached the past few seasons, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. Lack of depth in this league can and will be a problem though. Still I think if this staff delivers like I think they can we will be in 2003-ish territory (5-7) in 2016 which is still 2 years away from turning the corner but I don't think the program is starting all the way back in 2001 territory.

 

[beaced]

It is hard to believe some of the SH^T that I read on this Board. BUT seeing is BELIEVING I've been told.:flushed:

 

[czxqa]

You may want to revise that one too. Sad, but likely.

God, that's frightening...

Edit: I just looked at the schedule. Be a miracle if they don't lose out...

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

Rebuilding is post Sandy. It implies that there was once something there that needs to be rebuilt. Ash is not rebuilding anything.He is laying a foundation from scratch..