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Time to assess or reassess the Big 10

goru7

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Dec 12, 2005
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In preseason, my thoughts were Michigan State, Maryland, Ohio State were the top 3. Then Purdue and Michigan because of their history , then a scramble with Wisconsin, Indiana, Illinois, Penn State, Rutgers and Iowa, with Minnesota, Northwestern and Nebraska bringing up the rear. The bottom 3 has not changed in my opinion but the league that was down in the early games because of losses by Nebraska and Northwestern has bounced back and will be stronger than I originally thought.

Ohio State and Michigan are at the top after 7 games. Michigan going from unranked( so the national opinion was their would be a drop off losing Beilein), to probably top 5-10 this week is the biggest suprise with back to back to back impressive wins , comfortable ones against Iowa State, UNC, and Gonzaga. Brooks has stepped up to help Simpson, Teske, and Livers has taken his game and shooting up a notch. The 2 games against them at MSG and the RAC should be sellouts and raucous environments.

Ohio State is playing their suffocating defense with a deep bench and look like the best team early, although they have some tests coming up. Washington, Mohammed, and their sensational freshman , Carton, and the FSU transfer , Walker, who killed us in FSU’s comeback win at the RAC in the challenge are the guards that are feeding the post for the Wesson brothers and Young who is an animal on the glass. Despite all this I think we match up well against them and Jacob will be asked to handle Walker to disrupt their offense. Myles against Wesson and who gets in foul trouble first will go a long way to deciding that game .

Michigan State is still a top 10 team but without Langford and consistency from the 2 and 3 spots, they do not look unbeatable like the experts thought. If Hall the freshman doesn’t shoot that well, they lose to Seton Hall, but besides Winston, they are not getting that 15-20 every night from Henry, Hall or their freshman Rocket Watts. Xavier Simpson cannot do it alone up front and has been challenged in the early games . Another team we match up with pretty well.

Maryland. I know they are ranked 6 but they are over rated. Harvard ( who is very good,along with Yale and Penn for you Ivy nuts ) had the lead for 35 minutes yesterday. They have gotten off to slow starts and their starting 5 better bring it every night because I question their depth. I am putting them 4th so far, because they are undefeated but I am not convinced they will end up that high.

Purdue has lost a couple of close ones early but gutted out a big win over a very tough VCU team last night and they did it down the stretch with Haarms and Williams both fouling out and Eastern did not score. They lose Edwards and Ryan Cline, who bailed out so many games last year from 3 , and it does not look one guy has emerged to replace but a bunch of capable guards and forwards who can shoot and play defense. They will always be a tough game.

The next 2 are a toss up between Illinois and Penn State . I will pick Penn State as they have played a tougher schedule and demolished Georgetown on the road and Syracuse last night. But for their blowing a 19 point lead to Ole Miss 2 nights ago I would have put them ahead of Purdue. Stevens and Watkins have taking their games up a notch as seniors, and Wheeler and Dread are playing really well. They also have depth. They are going to be tough in both games this year .

Illinois had that early OT scare against Nichols State( same conference as SFA and gave other teams firs early) , but seem to really found their stride. They are deep at guard with Dosunu, Frazier,and Felix, but the difference is this man child Cofi Cockburn who looks unstoppable down low, to go along with Giorgi, who we already know was unstoppable down low. The are rebounding on both ends and going once they get a defensive rebound. If we do not keep them off the glass , the games this year will not be like that OT game last year that we should have won . Again , these games will be real physical and interesting in styles as we both like to run and play in your face defense.

Indiana has gotten healthy and has not played anyone yet but they are undefeated . Devonte Greene was hurt early but has been good the last 3 games and he along with Phinisee the point guard and Al Durham their 2-3 guard are really a handful. Davis and Justin Smith up front will be a handful . Kinda like us that on any given night one of their guys can get 20 with 3-4 other guys in double figures. They are shooting better than us especially from 3.

I am placing Rutgers next off of the last 3 games, but the competition level in the next 4 will tell us a lot. SFA and Umass were really good teams and were great solid wins with tremendous defense . I also think the coaching at Drexel and Bryant will keep those teams in the hunt in their conferences.

Iowa, has turned out better than I thought with some good early wins, but I question their toughness, as they blew a big first half lead against San Diego State last night and got out toughed. They are deeper than last year and Luka Garza and Greiner up front have improved and besides Buchanan, Weiscamp and this guy Frederick can still shoot the three . I know they beat Texas Tech the night before but Creighton beat them as well last night so Tech is still a work n progress. In my opinion we are tougher, play better defense, and are better than Iowa.

Wisconsin is next as they are just mediocre . They might shoot well at home and always play good defense so they might pull an upset at home , but they have absolutely no player that scares you. Davison , Brice are okay at guard , and Nate Reuvers is a good stretch 4 that can shoot the three, as is Ford, and Kobe King and Pritzl can have an occasional great game but I will be disappointed if we do not handle them at home. They are clearly the least talented team on this list so far . They will miss Happ.

Minnesota , Northwestern and Nebraska are still the bottom 3 and I am not going to go in depth but I will say Minnesota has some players that must be neutralized to bring home a W , and Nebraska with these 8 transfers seem to be playing better than earlier in the year where I thought they would not win a game .

Overall, the Big 10 is much better than originally thought and 7 bids are on the line .. This is going to be a tougher journey than originally thought and we will have to upset a few(2-3)nationally ranked teams and at least split with the teams 4-10. Really getting interesting and exciting.
 
In preseason, my thoughts were Michigan State, Maryland, Ohio State were the top 3. Then Purdue and Michigan because of their history , then a scramble with Wisconsin, Indiana, Illinois, Penn State, Rutgers and Iowa, with Minnesota, Northwestern and Nebraska bringing up the rear. The bottom 3 has not changed in my opinion but the league that was down in the early games because of losses by Nebraska and Northwestern has bounced back and will be stronger than I originally thought.

Ohio State and Michigan are at the top after 7 games. Michigan going from unranked( so the national opinion was their would be a drop off losing Beilein), to probably top 5-10 this week is the biggest suprise with back to back to back impressive wins , comfortable ones against Iowa State, UNC, and Gonzaga. Brooks has stepped up to help Simpson, Teske, and Livers has taken his game and shooting up a notch. The 2 games against them at MSG and the RAC should be sellouts and raucous environments.

Ohio State is playing their suffocating defense with a deep bench and look like the best team early, although they have some tests coming up. Washington, Mohammed, and their sensational freshman , Carton, and the FSU transfer , Walker, who killed us in FSU’s comeback win at the RAC in the challenge are the guards that are feeding the post for the Wesson brothers and Young who is an animal on the glass. Despite all this I think we match up well against them and Jacob will be asked to handle Walker to disrupt their offense. Myles against Wesson and who gets in foul trouble first will go a long way to deciding that game .

Michigan State is still a top 10 team but without Langford and consistency from the 2 and 3 spots, they do not look unbeatable like the experts thought. If Hall the freshman doesn’t shoot that well, they lose to Seton Hall, but besides Winston, they are not getting that 15-20 every night from Henry, Hall or their freshman Rocket Watts. Xavier Simpson cannot do it alone up front and has been challenged in the early games . Another team we match up with pretty well.

Maryland. I know they are ranked 6 but they are over rated. Harvard ( who is very good,along with Yale and Penn for you Ivy nuts ) had the lead for 35 minutes yesterday. They have gotten off to slow starts and their starting 5 better bring it every night because I question their depth. I am putting them 4th so far, because they are undefeated but I am not convinced they will end up that high.

Purdue has lost a couple of close ones early but gutted out a big win over a very tough VCU team last night and they did it down the stretch with Haarms and Williams both fouling out and Eastern did not score. They lose Edwards and Ryan Cline, who bailed out so many games last year from 3 , and it does not look one guy has emerged to replace but a bunch of capable guards and forwards who can shoot and play defense. They will always be a tough game.

The next 2 are a toss up between Illinois and Penn State . I will pick Penn State as they have played a tougher schedule and demolished Georgetown on the road and Syracuse last night. But for their blowing a 19 point lead to Ole Miss 2 nights ago I would have put them ahead of Purdue. Stevens and Watkins have taking their games up a notch as seniors, and Wheeler and Dread are playing really well. They also have depth. They are going to be tough in both games this year .

Illinois had that early OT scare against Nichols State( same conference as SFA and gave other teams firs early) , but seem to really found their stride. They are deep at guard with Dosunu, Frazier,and Felix, but the difference is this man child Cofi Cockburn who looks unstoppable down low, to go along with Giorgi, who we already know was unstoppable down low. The are rebounding on both ends and going once they get a defensive rebound. If we do not keep them off the glass , the games this year will not be like that OT game last year that we should have won . Again , these games will be real physical and interesting in styles as we both like to run and play in your face defense.

Indiana has gotten healthy and has not played anyone yet but they are undefeated . Devonte Greene was hurt early but has been good the last 3 games and he along with Phinisee the point guard and Al Durham their 2-3 guard are really a handful. Davis and Justin Smith up front will be a handful . Kinda like us that on any given night one of their guys can get 20 with 3-4 other guys in double figures. They are shooting better than us especially from 3.

I am placing Rutgers next off of the last 3 games, but the competition level in the next 4 will tell us a lot. SFA and Umass were really good teams and were great solid wins with tremendous defense . I also think the coaching at Drexel and Bryant will keep those teams in the hunt in their conferences.

Iowa, has turned out better than I thought with some good early wins, but I question their toughness, as they blew a big first half lead against San Diego State last night and got out toughed. They are deeper than last year and Luka Garza and Greiner up front have improved and besides Buchanan, Weiscamp and this guy Frederick can still shoot the three . I know they beat Texas Tech the night before but Creighton beat them as well last night so Tech is still a work n progress. In my opinion we are tougher, play better defense, and are better than Iowa.

Wisconsin is next as they are just mediocre . They might shoot well at home and always play good defense so they might pull an upset at home , but they have absolutely no player that scares you. Davison , Brice are okay at guard , and Nate Reuvers is a good stretch 4 that can shoot the three, as is Ford, and Kobe King and Pritzl can have an occasional great game but I will be disappointed if we do not handle them at home. They are clearly the least talented team on this list so far . They will miss Happ.

Minnesota , Northwestern and Nebraska are still the bottom 3 and I am not going to go in depth but I will say Minnesota has some players that must be neutralized to bring home a W , and Nebraska with these 8 transfers seem to be playing better than earlier in the year where I thought they would not win a game .

Overall, the Big 10 is much better than originally thought and 7 bids are on the line .. This is going to be a tougher journey than originally thought and we will have to upset a few(2-3)nationally ranked teams and at least split with the teams 4-10. Really getting interesting and exciting.

The league has definitely looked better the last couple of weeks. Michigan looks really good and Iowa and Penn State have surprised me. Michigan State is by no means a lock to win the league. I actually like Michigan better. Simpson is a very good PG and Teske has become a beast. They have shooters and Wagner will be a stud soon. MSU is very thin up front but if they get Langston back it will certainly help from the perimeter. Teams with length like Kentucky can neutralize Winston also. The ACC challenge will tell us a lot.
 
7 bids seems right though the ACC Challenge will be telling.

My current projection:

1. Michigan State
2. Ohio State
3. Michigan
4. Maryland
5. Penn State
6. Indiana
7. Illinois
8. Purdue
9. Iowa
10. Wisconsin
11. Rutgers
12. Minnesota
13. Northwestern
14. Nebraska

IMO it's a pretty clear top 7 with 8-12 very jumbled. I don't think Purdue is very good this year but Matt Painter seems to find a way so they get the benefit of the doubt. 9-12 could finish in any order.
 
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7 bids seems right though the ACC Challenge will be telling.

My current projection:

1. Michigan State
2. Ohio State
3. Michigan
4. Maryland
5. Penn State
6. Indiana
7. Illinois
8. Purdue
9. Iowa
10. Wisconsin
11. Rutgers
12. Minnesota
13. Northwestern
14. Nebraska

IMO it's a pretty clear top 7 with 8-12 very jumbled.
Surprised you have Iowa and Wisconsin ahead of us . What have you seen in particular other than their history and winning records?
 
Surprised you have Iowa and Wisconsin ahead of us . What have you seen in particular other than their history and winning records?

I haven't been wildly impressed with either but Wisconsin beat Marquette (stomped them) and Iowa beat Texas Tech.

Richmond, New Mexico and St. Bonaventure on neutral courts and losing by 25 at home to DePaul are all bad losses. Hard to separate those.
 
Is the B1G still down? Asking for a friend. League might have 3 of the Top 5 and 4 of the Top 10.

Clear top 4. Clear bottom 2.
 
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I believe the Big 10 is better than the Big East. Today the BIG has Michigan, Maryland, Ohio state and Michigan State all in the Top 12 in the country and all rated ahead of Seton Hall the top team in the Big East. The BIG also won the Gavitt games 5-3.
 
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So we are going to take one game in a million sample size and conclude Las Vegas is broken?
Not at all. My argument would be that SFA is better than their perceived rank until proven otherwise.

Seems like you’re making the argument that SFA can’t be that good because they lost to Rutgers. If not, then on what basis would you (and Vegas) consider them a pickem vs Arkansas State?

Btw Arkansas State is a good shooting team playing at home, and SFA is coming off the biggest win in their history, so maybe the oddsmakers see this as a let-down game.

Nobody knows how these games will look by year’s end. But right now I consider SFA a good win. I’m also impressed by their coach. He has them playing an aggressive, take no prisoners style, and he has his players believing they can and should beat anybody.
 
7 bids seems right though the ACC Challenge will be telling.

My current projection:

1. Michigan State
2. Ohio State
3. Michigan
4. Maryland
5. Penn State
6. Indiana
7. Illinois
8. Purdue
9. Iowa
10. Wisconsin
11. Rutgers
12. Minnesota
13. Northwestern
14. Nebraska

IMO it's a pretty clear top 7 with 8-12 very jumbled. I don't think Purdue is very good this year but Matt Painter seems to find a way so they get the benefit of the doubt. 9-12 could finish in any order.

I agree with most of this except for Indiana. The jury is out on them as their schedule is almost as bad as ours.
 
Rutgers has played no one. SOS a joke. Only game against a somewhat OK team they lost.
Rutgers has played no one. SOS a joke. Only game against a somewhat OK team they lost.
What does that have to do with the talent on Iowa and Wisconsin and how they have played so far. We can argue wins and by how much but tell me what do you see in Wisconsin so far this year, to think they should be ahead of us ? Simple question.
 
you are asking the wrong guy. Outside of Myles Johnson, as of now, I don’t see any top half B1G talent on our roster. All guys are young and it doesn’t mean sum of parts can’t be greater than whole.
 
you are asking the wrong guy. Outside of Myles Johnson, as of now, I don’t see any top half B1G talent on our roster. All guys are young and it doesn’t mean sum of parts can’t be greater than whole.
I have Rutgers at 9 and Iowa at 10 and Wisconsin at 11. So stop avoiding the question because 9th place right now is not top half. So tell me either by looking at your computer stats or your eye test what have seen to think either Iowa or Wisconsin will finish ahead of us.?
 
Looking last year we had a very good player AND were fortunate in the timing of some of our opponents. In my mind a 3-4 win B1G team is returning. That is the base I am going off of
 
What does that have to do with the talent on Iowa and Wisconsin and how they have played so far. We can argue wins and by how much but tell me what do you see in Wisconsin so far this year, to think they should be ahead of us ? Simple question.

Iowa can certainly finish ahead of Rutgers
 
SF Austin 6-1 won @Arkansas St 5-2 by 76-57. Arkansas St best win was @Colorado St 5-3 by 2. The SF Austin win is looking better by the game but they are going to be hurt by playing 3 Non D-1 games, and their weak Southland Conference.
 
After pittwismsushu we will know more about our team.
It's time we had a concatenated series of opponents referenced for a good reason. Go 4-0 here and I'll put it in my sig.

Btw Vegas takes a while to figure out certain teams each year
 
Next test is @ Alabama on Friday.

I can see SFA settling in as a top-150 team. Obviously vastly underrated coming into the season.

All services are using last year's data to at least some degree, and last year SFA had a very down year (losing key players before and during the season). Agree they'll probably shake out in the Top 150 again this year and be a Quad 3 win.
 
“The conference is down” is the new “they haven’t beaten anybody” ... just something parroted by media people after 1 person says it. There will be at least 1 beat writer every season that predicts a “down year” for EVERY conference and sometime some will be right but the moral of the story is the Big Ten has been and still is one of the best basketball conferences and might be even stronger than last year
 
Rutgers has played no one. SOS a joke. Only game against a somewhat OK team they lost.

So far (bart):
268 - Bryant
324 - Niagara
236 - Drexel
128 - St. Bonaventure
224 - Stephen F Austin
229 - NJIT
176 - UMass

Upcoming
80 - Pittsburgh
4 - MSU
44 - Wisconsin
17 - SHU
182 - Lafayette
DII - Caldwell

Will definitely know a lot more about hte team over the next 4 game.s
 
Las Vegas it seems leans on kenpom and bartovic. Bart has the line as even and so did LV.

Will the have SFA +18 vs Alabama?
 
Pickem with SFA made no sense to me in their game today at Arky St, and I said as much beforehand. Doesn’t surprise me they won by 19 on the road. No idea what Vegas oddsmakers were thinking with that line. Maybe they figured the bettors would move the spread and “the market” would decide. Guess there was equal money on both sides.
 
In preseason, my thoughts were Michigan State, Maryland, Ohio State were the top 3. Then Purdue and Michigan because of their history , then a scramble with Wisconsin, Indiana, Illinois, Penn State, Rutgers and Iowa, with Minnesota, Northwestern and Nebraska bringing up the rear. The bottom 3 has not changed in my opinion but the league that was down in the early games because of losses by Nebraska and Northwestern has bounced back and will be stronger than I originally thought.

Ohio State and Michigan are at the top after 7 games. Michigan going from unranked( so the national opinion was their would be a drop off losing Beilein), to probably top 5-10 this week is the biggest suprise with back to back to back impressive wins , comfortable ones against Iowa State, UNC, and Gonzaga. Brooks has stepped up to help Simpson, Teske, and Livers has taken his game and shooting up a notch. The 2 games against them at MSG and the RAC should be sellouts and raucous environments.

Ohio State is playing their suffocating defense with a deep bench and look like the best team early, although they have some tests coming up. Washington, Mohammed, and their sensational freshman , Carton, and the FSU transfer , Walker, who killed us in FSU’s comeback win at the RAC in the challenge are the guards that are feeding the post for the Wesson brothers and Young who is an animal on the glass. Despite all this I think we match up well against them and Jacob will be asked to handle Walker to disrupt their offense. Myles against Wesson and who gets in foul trouble first will go a long way to deciding that game .

Michigan State is still a top 10 team but without Langford and consistency from the 2 and 3 spots, they do not look unbeatable like the experts thought. If Hall the freshman doesn’t shoot that well, they lose to Seton Hall, but besides Winston, they are not getting that 15-20 every night from Henry, Hall or their freshman Rocket Watts. Xavier Simpson cannot do it alone up front and has been challenged in the early games . Another team we match up with pretty well.

Maryland. I know they are ranked 6 but they are over rated. Harvard ( who is very good,along with Yale and Penn for you Ivy nuts ) had the lead for 35 minutes yesterday. They have gotten off to slow starts and their starting 5 better bring it every night because I question their depth. I am putting them 4th so far, because they are undefeated but I am not convinced they will end up that high.

Purdue has lost a couple of close ones early but gutted out a big win over a very tough VCU team last night and they did it down the stretch with Haarms and Williams both fouling out and Eastern did not score. They lose Edwards and Ryan Cline, who bailed out so many games last year from 3 , and it does not look one guy has emerged to replace but a bunch of capable guards and forwards who can shoot and play defense. They will always be a tough game.

The next 2 are a toss up between Illinois and Penn State . I will pick Penn State as they have played a tougher schedule and demolished Georgetown on the road and Syracuse last night. But for their blowing a 19 point lead to Ole Miss 2 nights ago I would have put them ahead of Purdue. Stevens and Watkins have taking their games up a notch as seniors, and Wheeler and Dread are playing really well. They also have depth. They are going to be tough in both games this year .

Illinois had that early OT scare against Nichols State( same conference as SFA and gave other teams firs early) , but seem to really found their stride. They are deep at guard with Dosunu, Frazier,and Felix, but the difference is this man child Cofi Cockburn who looks unstoppable down low, to go along with Giorgi, who we already know was unstoppable down low. The are rebounding on both ends and going once they get a defensive rebound. If we do not keep them off the glass , the games this year will not be like that OT game last year that we should have won . Again , these games will be real physical and interesting in styles as we both like to run and play in your face defense.

Indiana has gotten healthy and has not played anyone yet but they are undefeated . Devonte Greene was hurt early but has been good the last 3 games and he along with Phinisee the point guard and Al Durham their 2-3 guard are really a handful. Davis and Justin Smith up front will be a handful . Kinda like us that on any given night one of their guys can get 20 with 3-4 other guys in double figures. They are shooting better than us especially from 3.

I am placing Rutgers next off of the last 3 games, but the competition level in the next 4 will tell us a lot. SFA and Umass were really good teams and were great solid wins with tremendous defense . I also think the coaching at Drexel and Bryant will keep those teams in the hunt in their conferences.

Iowa, has turned out better than I thought with some good early wins, but I question their toughness, as they blew a big first half lead against San Diego State last night and got out toughed. They are deeper than last year and Luka Garza and Greiner up front have improved and besides Buchanan, Weiscamp and this guy Frederick can still shoot the three . I know they beat Texas Tech the night before but Creighton beat them as well last night so Tech is still a work n progress. In my opinion we are tougher, play better defense, and are better than Iowa.

Wisconsin is next as they are just mediocre . They might shoot well at home and always play good defense so they might pull an upset at home , but they have absolutely no player that scares you. Davison , Brice are okay at guard , and Nate Reuvers is a good stretch 4 that can shoot the three, as is Ford, and Kobe King and Pritzl can have an occasional great game but I will be disappointed if we do not handle them at home. They are clearly the least talented team on this list so far . They will miss Happ.

Minnesota , Northwestern and Nebraska are still the bottom 3 and I am not going to go in depth but I will say Minnesota has some players that must be neutralized to bring home a W , and Nebraska with these 8 transfers seem to be playing better than earlier in the year where I thought they would not win a game .

Overall, the Big 10 is much better than originally thought and 7 bids are on the line .. This is going to be a tougher journey than originally thought and we will have to upset a few(2-3)nationally ranked teams and at least split with the teams 4-10. Really getting interesting and exciting.

Well done.
 
B1G 72-22. Bart has us ranked 3rd ahead of ACC and behind B12 and BE.

I don’t get the Big East ranking. Top 2 teams are SHU and Nova. Nova is way down —got totally embarrassed by OSU — and the Hall already lost to MSU without Langford and blew a 19 pt. lead to Oregon. BE also lost the Big10 challenge FWIW.
 
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