Update on Baker and Souf Mensah

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

The future of this team has always been about the 2018 class with the 4 or 5 spots. Prior to that Pikiell is adding pieces and more role player types. A true PG, a hustling lunch pile guy like Eugene and Bullock , who may develop into that much needed tough guy. He got a shooter in Baker.

I find it interesting that people are writing off Bullock because he is redshirting.

Pikiell already added a 4 star PF in 2018 and doing well with local guys...like 4 star Jalen Carey

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I too am dumbfounded with this pickup. Not a good shooter, isn't a great free throw shooter, not a good scorer against inferior competition. But hey he can pass. Oh really pass to who? Which person on this team do you trust to hit an open shot when they get this phenomenonal pass from him? Are you going to take the ball away from Corey? Are you taking minutes away from Johnson or Williams? Or maybe we'll just have Baker ride the bench the whole season. Sorry but he's a 5 minute a game player. When we start to fill up the roster with shooters 2-3 years from now then he can be valuable. But wait he's a JUCO and only here 2 years.

Yes.....he is here for 2 years but guess what? It opens a spot for 2019 when Paul Mulcahy or Isaih Wong are available.

This is a build....not a short term fix. Fans think year 2...Pikiell is thinking about his year 4 and 5 rosters.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

Let's be realistic here....Thiam, Laurent and Eugene have to improve, A LOT.

If not there are 40 minutes that open up and you are talking 100-120 minutes spread out among 5 guys...

Hypothetical, until I see new guys....HYPOTHETICAL
1- Sanders (30) Mensah (10)
2- Johnson (25) Baker (15)
3- Williams (28) Thiam, Laurent, Eugene (12)
4- Freeman (28) Laurent Thiam Eugene (12)
5- Doorson (14) Sa (13) Diallo (13)

that 5 rotation scares the heck out of me...unless we get some serious off season jump in play I guess it will be a repeat season. Maybe that 1 or 2 wins in conference we should have had this year.

 

[PaKnight]

Yes.....he is here for 2 years but guess what? It opens a spot for 2019 when Paul Mulcahy or Isaih Wong are available.

This is a build....not a short term fix. Fans think year 2...Pikiell is thinking about his year 4 and 5 rosters.

It also provides an experienced guy in year 3, when Williams, Johnson and probably Sanders are not here.

 

[seels2662]

Yes.....he is here for 2 years but guess what? It opens a spot for 2019 when Paul Mulcahy or Isaih Wong are available.

This is a build....not a short term fix. Fans think year 2...Pikiell is thinking about his year 4 and 5 rosters.

Its just that next year we desperately needed to find another big man. A 5 minute per game center is much more valuable to next years team than a five minute per game PG. I think we will actually take a step backwards next year. And the year after was already a given will be tough with all the freshmen. It finally stars to turn around three seasons from now but boy that is a long way to go and alot of things need to go right for that to happen.

 

[PatrickRU92]

The idea that we NEED a pass first point guard is a fallacy in my opinion.

Look at UM yesterday. EVERYBODY they played was a threat to score, all the time. They are extremely hard to defend.

A pass first PG is great PROVIDED he has to be guarded outside the arc. If not then it's a wasted position unless he's the 2nd coming of Jason Kidd. And who is he going to pass to that will make the shot?

Maybe Souf is great and I'm certainly willing to give him a chance to play before I make any opinion on him. But right now the least of our problems is the PG making passes. Problem, 1, 1a, 1b, 2,3,4,5....10 is we need offense, meaning players who are a threat to score

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Agree with a lot of what you say....however, Sanders is a terrible shooter and he still is guarded outside of the 3 point circle AND still beats his defender off the dribble whenever he wants.

 

[babbs09]

Idk where some of you guys get off with these comments. I'm not into blindly defending anyone, but any questions about the ability of this staff to recruit blue chip players to Rutgers are just fvcking ludicrous. They are going to have to develop some lesser recruited kids into solid contributors. Not every kid needs to be this dynamic playmaker. Basketball teams tend to have role players too. Maybe they have a particular role in mind. I agree that we won't take huge steps forward without the big-time players but, I mean, this is Rutgers we're talking about. We have the longest NCAA tournament drought of any P5 time in the country. The program has been a goddamn laughingstock for the better part of 2 decades minus a couple seasons where we were mediocre. We've done everything in our power to dig ourselves a deeper and deeper chasm to climb out of at literally every opportunity. We as a fanbase get jacked up because they finally put AC in the RAC and have a sound system that was made in this century. Our AD has to beg, borrow, and steal to get anyone to give money to the program. He has to bribe students with PORK ROLL in order to fill seats at the games. As much as I want this turned around 10 years ago, lets be honest with ourselves. If the staff goes and gets a Naz Reid or a Jalen Carey, then we aren't having this discussion anymore. If they don't, it will be upsetting. But it doesn't mean that we're doomed for all-time. Just that it will take more time.

 

[seels2662]

Idk where some of you guys get off with these comments. I'm not into blindly defending anyone, but any questions about the ability of this staff to recruit blue chip players to Rutgers are just fvcking ludicrous. They are going to have to develop some lesser recruited kids into solid contributors. Not every kid needs to be this dynamic playmaker. Basketball teams tend to have role players too. Maybe they have a particular role in mind. I agree that we won't take huge steps forward without the big-time players but, I mean, this is Rutgers we're talking about. We have the longest NCAA tournament drought of any P5 time in the country. The program has been a goddamn laughingstock for the better part of 2 decades minus a couple seasons where we were mediocre. We've done everything in our power to dig ourselves a deeper and deeper chasm to climb out of at literally every opportunity. We as a fanbase get jacked up because they finally put AC in the RAC and have a sound system that was made in this century. Our AD has to beg, borrow, and steal to get anyone to give money to the program. He has to bribe students with PORK ROLL in order to fill seats at the games. As much as I want this turned around 10 years ago, lets be honest with ourselves. If the staff goes and gets a Naz Reid or a Jalen Carey, then we aren't having this discussion anymore. If they don't, it will be upsetting. But it doesn't mean that we're doomed for all-time. Just that it will take more time.

So if its about just coaching up "lesser recuited kids", then why hasn't the staff pushed this team to 6+ conference wins?

 

[babbs09]

So if its about just coaching up "lesser recuited kids", then why hasn't the staff pushed this team to 6+ conference wins?

I didn't say it was just about that. I said that was going to have to be the plan at least initially. If you need me to explain why 6 conference wins this year was an unreasonable goal, then we're going to have a tough time with this discussion. Before this year we won, what, 2 conference games total? This year we actually were in most of these games, minus Iowa. On top of that, no staff was going to walk in here and just start reeling in 5 stars unless we had bag man passing out cash all over the Northeast. It just wasn't going to happen. They have to find those kids that they feel they can mold into better players over time. Its everyone's first year with this staff. I'm never one to preach patience, but can't we wait to see how year 2 looks before we make any assumptions on what this staff is capable of. We've already seen a huge difference between last year and this year. Thats 100% obvious. But to think that would immediately result in kids lining up to play here is obviously foolish, right? Given everything that's transpired with this program in the last 20 years?

 

[willisneverrana43]

The future of this team has always been about the 2018 class with the 4 or 5 spots. Prior to that Pikiell is adding pieces and more role player types. . . .

This is make believe. I mean, if his 2018 class falls apart, are you bailing on Pikiell?

Realty is this: he is trying to recruit and get better players for every class. He's recruiting long term, and he's recruiting short term. As a new coach running a historically bad program, longer term is likely where he'll have his best chance at success. But he doesn't know when the better recruits will start to come and actually sign. Or if they will at all. But he keeps pushing and hopes that he builds good relationships with players and the coaches and that success coaching the team he already has in place eventually becomes apparent to recruits and influences them to sign. Or it doesn't.

There is no make-believe plan for which it's all about 2018 and just spare parts until then. He doesn't have that luxury, nor do most any other college coaches. He's just trying to build something and get players, whenever he gets them. Frankly, given the level of talent that he has on this current roster, he may never have a more broad ranging, deep and immediate need for all types of talent.

He just has to get them. And we're nowhere near knowing yet whether he will ultimately be successful at that. It's not a knock on him. He's a good coach. We just don't know about recruiting yet--which isn't very surprising.

 

[RUsojo]

They wanted Bullock too. I love how Pikiell has gotten this team to compete every night but I have some worries about recruiting. We need a major talent upgrade and we can't afford to throw away any more roster spaces. Last year was understandable but would've hoped for better in this cycle.

Right. Pikiell and his staff's ability to recruit to RU is still very much a question.

Agree...still a major question mark. Love what he has done on the court, especially with respect to rebounding and defense but recruiting has been blah...

Bullock is a rare case guys. You can't judge Pike's recruitng on him. Pike helped out a local program to help build relationships for the future. From what we've heard and what's been alluded to by some bullock does not have a long term future here and that is a mutual sentiment between player and staff.

Pike gave the kid one free year of college as a sign of goodwill to a local school. I THINK that's what this was.

 

[TODDB33]

Having never had the clap, I don't know how useful it is for controlling one's energy, but I was under the impression it was considered a detriment to one's overall health. :smiley:

 

[seels2662]

I didn't say it was just about that. I said that was going to have to be the plan at least initially. If you need me to explain why 6 conference wins this year was an unreasonable goal, then we're going to have a tough time with this discussion. Before this year we won, what, 2 conference games total? This year we actually were in most of these games, minus Iowa. On top of that, no staff was going to walk in here and just start reeling in 5 stars unless we had bag man passing out cash all over the Northeast. It just wasn't going to happen. They have to find those kids that they feel they can mold into better players over time. Its everyone's first year with this staff. I'm never one to preach patience, but can't we wait to see how year 2 looks before we make any assumptions on what this staff is capable of. We've already seen a huge difference between last year and this year. Thats 100% obvious. But to think that would immediately result in kids lining up to play here is obviously foolish, right? Given everything that's transpired with this program in the last 20 years?

I will argue that without at least a few blue chippers that can score no matter who the competition is then six wins will forever be an unreasonable goal.

Listen I am hoping that Pikiell can recruit at the B1G level. But if you are telling me he can't despite the shortcomings of the program then we need to find someone who can.

 

[MadRU]

Agree with a lot of what you say....however, Sanders is a terrible shooter and he still is guarded outside of the 3 point circle AND still beats his defender off the dribble whenever he wants.

Except when they overplay his right hand.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Except when they overplay his right hand.

Coaches aren't worried about Sanders beating his opponent to the right. They are worried that the big won't rotate to where Sanders will end up. I don't see opposing coaches having their guards make him go left. I think opponenets want the ball in Sanders hands late in games.

 

[MadRU]

Coaches aren't worried about Sanders beating his opponent to the right. They are worried that the big won't rotate to where Sanders will end up. I don't see opposing coaches having their guards make him go left. I think opponenets want the ball in Sanders hands late in games.

I have seen it a few games.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

This is make believe. I mean, if his 2018 class falls apart, are you bailing on Pikiell?

Realty is this: he is trying to recruit and get better players for every class. He's recruiting long term, and he's recruiting short term. As a new coach running a historically bad program, longer term is likely where he'll have his best chance at success. But he doesn't know when the better recruits will start to come and actually sign. Or if they will at all. But he keeps pushing and hopes that he builds good relationships with players and the coaches and that success coaching the team he already in place eventually becomes apparent to recruits and influences them to sign. Or it doesn't.

There is no make-believe plan for which it's all about 2018 and just spare parts until then. He doesn't have that luxury, nor do most any other college coaches. He's just trying to build something and get players, whenever he gets them. Frankly, given the level of talent that he has on this current roster, he may never have a more broach ranging, deep and immediate need for all types of talent.

He just has to get them. And we're nowhere near knowing yet whether he will ultimately be successful at that. It's not a knock on him. He's a good coach. We just don't know about recruiting yet--which isn't very surprising.

No, I'm not bailing on Pikiell. We can disagree, but, IMO, it's about 2018 and he is off to a good start with a 4-star PF. Everyone agrees, recruiting is about relationships built over a multi-year period and Knight, Hobbs, Young and Pikiell are building those relationships RIGHT NOW with an eye towards 2018 and beyond. The new practice facility coming in 2019 also helps.

Anyone looking for a quick fix with the late start year and limited spots Rutgers had this year (2) is not being reasonable.

 

[RickB113]

Agree with a lot of what you say....however, Sanders is a terrible shooter and he still is guarded outside of the 3 point circle AND still beats his defender off the dribble whenever he wants.

Sanders has come on of late from the outside. And he is a better outside shooter than Mensah by a lot.

 

[RickB113]

Idk where some of you guys get off with these comments. I'm not into blindly defending anyone, but any questions about the ability of this staff to recruit blue chip players to Rutgers are just fvcking ludicrous. They are going to have to develop some lesser recruited kids into solid contributors. Not every kid needs to be this dynamic playmaker. Basketball teams tend to have role players too. Maybe they have a particular role in mind. I agree that we won't take huge steps forward without the big-time players but, I mean, this is Rutgers we're talking about. We have the longest NCAA tournament drought of any P5 time in the country. The program has been a goddamn laughingstock for the better part of 2 decades minus a couple seasons where we were mediocre. We've done everything in our power to dig ourselves a deeper and deeper chasm to climb out of at literally every opportunity. We as a fanbase get jacked up because they finally put AC in the RAC and have a sound system that was made in this century. Our AD has to beg, borrow, and steal to get anyone to give money to the program. He has to bribe students with PORK ROLL in order to fill seats at the games. As much as I want this turned around 10 years ago, lets be honest with ourselves. If the staff goes and gets a Naz Reid or a Jalen Carey, then we aren't having this discussion anymore. If they don't, it will be upsetting. But it doesn't mean that we're doomed for all-time. Just that it will take more time.

This post is flat out wrong. Rices first class had 6 top 150 players. It can be done. And he didn't have the facilities that Pike has to sell. And I not asking for a total stud with this last ship. But a guy with no offers from a poor juco where his stats are awful and he can't do the two things we need most. We can expect more. That's all.

 

[TODDB33]

In reading this thread I see a lot of comments on why we shouldn't ke ki I watched the whole video. and the kid has PG instincts with his passes. Amazing how some on here keep asking who is he going to pass to. I would e he would be passing to players like Sa and Thiam and whoever else is playing the 3 4 and 5 spots. This kid is a better passer than Sanders anyone else on the team at this point. I think SP and staff know a lttle more about talent than the rest of us. Many complained about Sanders D from last year and now he is one of the better D guys on the team. Its all about coachin and if a player is deemed to have some talent this staff will coach them up. JUST LIKE THEY HAVE DONE THIS YEAR.

 

[soundcrib]

Corey is a 4 year player.

 

[babbs09]

This post is flat out wrong. Rices first class had 6 top 150 players. It can be done. And he didn't have the facilities that Pike has to sell. And I not asking for a total stud with this last ship. But a guy with no offers from a poor juco where his stats are awful and he can't do the two things we need most. We can expect more. That's all.

Yea that class had that many 150 players. How many of them were ACTUALLY 150 players, like seriously? How many of those guys stuck around to finish out their careers? Oh, that's right, the coach we hired blew a gasket, threw basketballs at them, and called them pussies. Which then set us back even further than before.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

This post is flat out wrong. Rices first class had 6 top 150 players. It can be done. And he didn't have the facilities that Pike has to sell. And I not asking for a total stud with this last ship. But a guy with no offers from a poor juco where his stats are awful and he can't do the two things we need most. We can expect more. That's all.

Rated 150.....only 1, maybe 2 were really top 150. I'll take this guy as a PG over top 150 Jerome Seagers any day. That class was not good.....period !

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Sanders has come on of late from the outside. And he is a better outside shooter than Mensah by a lot.

How the heck do you know that?

 

[RUChoppin]

Amazing how some on here keep asking who is he going to pass to. I would e he would be passing to players like Sa and Thiam and whoever else is playing the 3 4 and 5 spots.

That's exactly what people are asking. Without shooters, the perfect pass doesn't mean much.

Look back to Douby's junior year. He was the team's only scoring threat, at 25.4 ppg, and drew double (and triple) teams regularly. He only had 3.1 assists per game, but probably could have had twice that if the players he passed the ball to could have put it in the bucket more consistently. And we had better shooters in 2005-06 than we do right now.

Right now I'm not in the camp of disagreeing with bringing Mensah on... I'm just really confused by it, because it doesn't seem to solve our more pressing need (shooters).

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Rated 150.....only 1, maybe 2 were really top 150. I'll take this guy as a PG over top 150 Jerome Seagers any day. That class was not good.....period !

I'll go with Carter and Jack.

 

[RUChoppin]

How the heck do you know that?

Because he's gone 11-40 (.275) across 51 JUCO games so far, and is just 2-9 (.222) this year across 22 games?

Last year he averaged just 0.3-1.1 per game, and this year he's averaging 0.1-0.4 per game.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I'll go with Carter and Jack.

Yes, pre-injured Carter and Jack. Myles on the outside of 150.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If that is what you are basing your conclusions on you get an F in statistics.

It is fair to conclude that the fact he is not taking the shots tells us someone believes he is not a good shooter (himself and/or coach) and right now he isn't a good shooter. The lack of shots is telling and not the percentages (given the sample size).

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Yes, pre-injured Carter and Jack. Myles on the outside of 150.

I agree exactly

 

[RUChoppin]

If that is what you are basing your conclusions on you get an F in statistics.

It is fair to conclude that the fact he is not taking the shots tells us someone believes he is not a good shooter (himself and/or coach) and right now he isn't a good shooter. The lack of shots is telling and not the percentages (given the sample size).

So... that assumption that he and/or a coach believe he isn't a good shooter, and that right now he isn't a good shooter.... somehow means that he'll be a better shooter than Corey Sanders when stepping up a couple levels in competition?

O.o

 

[ruman]

Stupidest thread in some time -- that is saying something

 

[RickB113]

Yea that class had that many 150 players. How many of them were ACTUALLY 150 players, like seriously? How many of those guys stuck around to finish out their careers? Oh, that's right, the coach we hired blew a gasket, threw basketballs at them, and called them pussies. Which then set us back even further than before.

I have no idea what this post has to do with anything. It is a fact they were ranked top 150. We are arguing whether a coach can bring top 150 players in. Their are busts in every class. hence the reason you need to recruit top 150 players EVERY year.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I never said he was a good shooter or a better shooter than Sanders. I know what Sanders is. It would be hard to imagine Sanders being a much better shooter than anyone.

Both players have the opportunity to improve. What they are right now doesn't have to be what they are in 9 months.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I have no idea what this post has to do with anything. It is a fact they were ranked top 150. We are arguing whether a coach can bring top 150 players in. Their are busts in every class. hence the reason you need to recruit top 150 players EVERY year.

All busts are not equal. If a Top 150 player ends up at Rutgers there usually is a reason why. Many times schools know that the said player isn't a top 150 contributor to a winning basketball team.

 

[RickB113]

How the heck do you know that?

Have you seen his stats? I don't have them in front of me now but his 3 point shooting percentage is awful and that is against smaller weaker defenders. I have to find it, but I am pretty sure it was below 30%. I want to say 26%. It's not going to get better when he is up against taller quicker guards. You almost always see a dip in percentage. I believe sanders is up to 29% and that is after a horrid start against the weaker part of the schedule. So he is shooting g a higher percentage this season than Mensah against competition that is not even close to comparable and They are both sophomores. That is how I can say it.

 

[RickB113]

All busts are not equal. If a Top 150 player ends up at Rutgers there usually is a reason why. Many times schools know that the said player isn't a top 150 contributor to a winning basketball team.

That's bull. Other schools were heavily recruiting all those players. Randall transferred to Pitt. carter Florida. Seagears UNLV. So even after two years all those players were worth a scholarship offer at schools way better than Rutgers. Mack and Jack were very good four year players. so as I am thinking about it their weren't any busts. You had three very good players in Mack Jack and Carter. And three role players. That is what you would expect out of that class.

 

[RUChoppin]

Both players have the opportunity to improve. What they are right now doesn't have to be what they are in 9 months.

I agree - and I'm sure that Pike/staff like Mensah because of the potential they see in him, and how they figure he'll fit into the larger plan. Still, from an outside shooting (and FT shooting) perspective, he's coming in as a bit of a project (and a project that only has a 2 year window to blossom).

If we have a departure or two in April that get shored up by 5th year or Juco scoring threats, specifically at the wing, then Mensah makes much more sense to me. And it's possible that the staff already knows that's coming, and what seems somewhat like a blurry picture now will become more clear by the end of the summer.

 

[willisneverrana43]

. . . It would be hard to imagine Sanders being a much better shooter than anyone. . . .

He's better than Thiam, Candido, Laurent, Omoruyi, similar to Johnson. I think you underestimate how easy and regular it has been for RU to bring in a broad bench of shaky shooters. So you're hoping this kid isn't another. Well, it's always good to hope.