USNWR 2022 Law School Rankings 😬

[Leonard23]

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings

Rutgers Law School ranking slid from 76 to 96 and is tied for last in B1G with MSU. What is going on? The Newark/Camden merger seems to be a failure, so it's time to close them, move it to New Brunswick and start over. At the very least, close Camden and try the B-School approach of New Brunswick and Newark.

B1G, ACC, and local schools of interest:

1 Yale
3 Harvard
4 Columbia, Chicago
6 NYU, UPenn
8 UVA
10 Michigan, Duke
12 Northwestern
13 Cornell
15 Georgetown
20 BU
22 Minnesota, ND
24 UNC
27 GW
29 Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, BC
35 Fordham, W&L, W&M
40 Ohio State
41 Wake, George Mason
43 Indiana
50 Maryland
53 Temple, Nova, Richmond, Cardozo
58 UConn
60 PSU
67 Northeastern, Pitt
70 SHU
72 St. John's
81 American, Brooklyn, Drexel
87 Nebraska
91 Rutgers, Michigan State
98 Buffalo
102 Syracuse, CUNY, Catholic
116 Albany
119 Hofstra, Duquesne, NYLS

 

[Rutgers56]

Very concerning. The university on the whole has never done well maneuvering the absurd world of rankings. You can’t tell me the university ranking at #58 is where it should be either.

I’m genuinely curious what’s being done behind the scenes to recognize the deficiencies that attribute to the low rankings. The reality is people from the outside looking in put stock in these rankings and we need to be proactive in making a move.

 

[bigmatt718]

We put a lot of money into our business school and are growing our med school while the law school does nothing but gather dust. I'm with you...I'm at the point where we should start to consider merging the schools into NB and starting over. The Camden/Newark setup has been an abject failure thus far.

 

[retired711]

Now that I'm retired, I have zero insight into what is going on. If I find anything out, I'll let you know.

 

[Leonard23]

We put a lot of money into our business school and are growing our med school while the law school does nothing but gather dust. I'm with you...I'm at the point where we should start to consider merging the schools into NB and starting over. The Camden/Newark setup has been an abject failure thus far.

They've done a great job with the B-School and it jumped up to 44 from 56, but get this, it's last in the B1G with Purdue. Crazy, how academically strong B1G is. Hope it keeps climbing.

Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School--New Brunswick was #70 in best medical schools research but #93-123 in primary care (Rutgers New Jersey Medical School--Newark was 66 and 93-123), so it has a lot of work to do to improve.

 

[NotInRHouse]

They've done a great job with the B-School and it jumped up to 44 from 56, but get this, it's last in the B1G with Purdue. Crazy, how academically strong B1G is. Hope it keeps climbing.

Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School--New Brunswick was #70 in best medical schools research but #93-123 in primary care (Rutgers New Jersey Medical School--Newark was 66 and 93-123), so it has a lot of work to do to improve.

When you say business school, I assume this is the MBA program, not the undergrad, correct?

 

[NotInRHouse]

Now that I'm retired, I have zero insight into what is going on. If I find anything out, I'll let you know.

USNWR added debt load to the rankings this year. But RU is relatively cheap especially compared to the non-Temple competition.

 

[NotInRHouse]

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings

Rutgers Law School ranking slid from 76 to 96 and is tied for last in B1G with MSU. What is going on? The Newark/Camden merger seems to be a failure, so it's time to close them, move it to New Brunswick and start over. At the very least, close Camden and try the B-School approach of New Brunswick and Newark.

B1G, ACC, and local schools of interest:

1 Yale
3 Harvard
4 Columbia, Chicago
6 NYU, UPenn
8 UVA
10 Michigan, Duke
12 Northwestern
13 Cornell
15 Georgetown
20 BU
22 Minnesota, ND
24 UNC
27 GW
29 Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, BC
35 Fordham, W&L, W&M
40 Ohio State
41 Wake, George Mason
43 Indiana
50 Maryland
53 Temple, Nova, Richmond, Cardozo
58 UConn
60 PSU
67 Northeastern, Pitt
70 SHU
72 St. John's
81 American, Brooklyn, Drexel
87 Nebraska
91 Rutgers, Michigan State
98 Buffalo
102 Syracuse, CUNY, Catholic
116 Albany
119 Hofstra, Duquesne, NYLS

Rutgers had the most precipitous drop in the top 100. 15 spots! WTF!?

You, I, and many others have been beating this drum for years. Something has to give.

RU for undergrad and my law school are both the victim of being a decimal point behind a massive tie. Dropped 8 spots as a result.

I am kind of curious what made Buffalo, Cardozo and Albany jump, and Brooklyn and Hofstra drop. For the drops I guess it's the add of the debt load into the calculation. I remember SJU being more generous with scholarships. Everything else seems kind of in order.

On another note, UCLA booting GTown from the top 15 definitely had to rattle the ranking bible folks. UCLA isn't really a national school from what I could tell.

 

[retired711]

Rutgers had the most precipitous drop in the top 100. 15 spots! WTF!?

You, I, and many others have been beating this drum for years. Something has to give.

RU for undergrad and my law school are both the victim of being a decimal point behind a massive tie. Dropped 8 spots as a result.

I am kind of curious what made Buffalo, Cardozo and Albany jump, and Brooklyn and Hofstra drop. For the drops I guess it's the add of the debt load into the calculation. I remember SJU being more generous with scholarships. Everything else seems kind of in order.

On another note, UCLA booting GTown from the top 15 definitely had to rattle the ranking bible folks. UCLA isn't really a national school from what I could tell.

I was a visiting professor at UCLA's law school for a year long ago. The school was excellent, but had an inferiority complex because students admitted both to UCLA and Berkeley went to Berkeley. Berkeley is now so selective that UCLA can get excellent students. You can do really well just by attracting California students. And really I don't see what makes Georgetown more "national" than UCLA.

Rutgers should have gone up if debt load is being counted, although note that the school has less scholarship money (and a higher tuiition )than it should.

I don't think the debt load should have caused the raises and declines you cite because most have high tuitions, and I would be surprised if there's that much difference in scholarship money among them. But maybe so.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Very concerning. The university on the whole has never done well maneuvering the absurd world of rankings. You can’t tell me the university ranking at #58 is where it should be either.

I’m genuinely curious what’s being done behind the scenes to recognize the deficiencies that attribute to the low rankings. The reality is people from the outside looking in put stock in these rankings and we need to be proactive in making a move.

For law school, USNWR is the "bible" of rankings. It's not like undergrad where there are multiple rankings taken seriously. The curriculum in law school is pretty uniform and generally students will go to the highest ranked school they get into in the region they want to work in, outside of the T14. There are some exceptions over the years with schools giving out scholarships (sometimes with controversial conditions) and some schools outside of the T14 with some sway beyond their region like ND, but it's a widespread convention.

The problem for RU is a straightforward one. When I was applying over a decade ago, SHU and Temple were giving out scholarships making them competitive with RU cost wise. With the ranking difference, the take on RU goes lower and lower. Throw in the other NY schools giving money too and the gap with Cardozo and Temple now becoming a chasm nevermind Fordham...you see the problem.

I mentioned to a friend yesterday that I wonder if a switch to remote work and more states including biggies like NY adopting the multi state bar exam will change things.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I was a visiting professor at UCLA's law school for a year long ago. The school was excellent, but had an inferiority complex because students admitted both to UCLA and Berkeley went to Berkeley. Berkeley is now so selective that UCLA can get excellent students. You can do really well just by attracting California students. And really I don't see what makes Georgetown more "national" than UCLA.

Rutgers should have gone up if debt load is being counted, although note that the school has less scholarship money (and a higher tuiition )than it should.

I don't think the debt load should have caused the raises and declines you cite because most have high tuitions, and I would be surprised if there's that much difference in scholarship money among them. But maybe so.

I guess what I mean by national is, let's say I want to work in NY, I don't get into Cornell and I am down to GTown or UCLA. Will I be just as able to get a job in NYC from UCLA as I would be from GTown? I remember considering applying to CA schools, but from what I understood, East Coast firms generally didn't recruit from there.

Of course, UCLA is prestigious and an excellent school, and Westwood is a cool neighborhood. It probably is fun place to be for 3 years. Historically though, law is pretty provincial industry when it comes to geography (I was questioned for wanting to work in NJ having graduated from a NY school). Maybe that scarred me, but I know others who have had similar experiences. Like I said, maybe it's changing and I don't think my generation cares about this, but my guess is there still some judges here in NJ who think NYC may as well be Timbuktu while someone right now I am sure is filing a brief in Middlesex Superior from Miami or maybe even Timbuktu, lol.

 

[retired711]

I guess what I mean by national is, let's say I want to work in NY, I don't get into Cornell and I am down to GTown or UCLA. Will I be just as able to get a job in NYC from UCLA as I would be from GTown? I remember considering applying to CA schools, but from what I understood, East Coast firms generally didn't recruit from there.

Of course, UCLA is prestigious and an excellent school, and Westwood is a cool neighborhood. It probably is fun place to be for 3 years. Historically though, law is pretty provincial industry when it comes to geography (I was questioned for wanting to work in NJ having graduated from a NY school). Maybe that scarred me, but I know others who have had similar experiences. Like I said, maybe it's changing and I don't think my generation cares about this, but my guess is there still some judges here in NJ who think NYC may as well be Timbuktu while someone right now I am sure is filing a brief in Middlesex Superior from Miami or maybe even Timbuktu, lol.

I know a lot of prestigious NY firms would recruit at Berkeley, and I'm sure that's even more true now. UCLA has probably gotten into the same category. As you know, it is not necessary that a firm recruit at a school in order to get a job at that firm. You're right that not as many NY firms recruit at the California schools than in NY; but on the other hand, not that many LA firms recruit in NY, and the LA firms are just as good if not as well-known.

P.S. Whether something gets you into the NY firms is not a measure of how "national" it is; only an east coaster would think of it that way.

 

[retired711]

For law school, USNWR is the "bible" of rankings. It's not like undergrad where there are multiple rankings taken seriously. The curriculum in law school is pretty uniform and generally students will go to the highest ranked school they get into in the region they want to work in, outside of the T14. There are some exceptions over the years with schools giving out scholarships (sometimes with controversial conditions) and some schools outside of the T14 with some sway beyond their region like ND, but it's a widespread convention.

The problem for RU is a straightforward one. When I was applying over a decade ago, SHU and Temple were giving out scholarships making them competitive with RU cost wise. With the ranking difference, the take on RU goes lower and lower. Throw in the other NY schools giving money too and the gap with Cardozo and Temple now becoming a chasm nevermind Fordham...you see the problem.

I mentioned to a friend yesterday that I wonder if a switch to remote work and more states including biggies like NY adopting the multi state bar exam will change things.

Yes, Rutgers has lacked scholarship money for years. If a New Jersey resident has good credentials, Temple will offer a scholarship that reduces the cost to less than Rutgers'. Private scholarship money has not made up for this, and the central administration doesn't seem to care.

 

[retired711]

I understand that the inclusion of debt load actually *hurt* Rutgers. in the rankings.This surprises me because, while I believe the law school's tuition is too high, it is still below the level at private institutions. If I find out more, I'll let you know.

 

[retired711]

USNWR added debt load to the rankings this year. But RU is relatively cheap especially compared to the non-Temple competition.

The addition of debt load should be helping Rutgers; U.S. News rated Rutgers high on that factor last year, although not counting it in the rankings. In any case, it is a very minor factor in the ratings -- maybe 2-3 %. Academic reputation is up (but that may be more due to Rutgers overall than to the law school). What is killing the law school is that it is admitting students with low GPAs; I suspect it has to in order to keep its LSAT median at a respectable level. Will the school's administration or the University administration care? I don't know. All I can say is that I'm glad I don't have to worry about any of this. Teaching students with low undergrad GPAs is hard because such students have zero study skills.

 

[NotInRHouse]

The addition of debt load should be helping Rutgers; U.S. News rated Rutgers high on that factor last year, although not counting it in the rankings. In any case, it is a very minor factor in the ratings -- maybe 2-3 %. Academic reputation is up (but that may be more due to Rutgers overall than to the law school). What is killing the law school is that it is admitting students with low GPAs; I suspect it has to in order to keep its LSAT median at a respectable level. Will the school's administration or the University administration care? I don't know. All I can say is that I'm glad I don't have to worry about any of this. Teaching students with low undergrad GPAs is hard because such students have zero study skills.

My understanding is that LSAT and GPA did not recover fully post recession. if I was applying today I think I could get into Cornell or Georgetown. Maybe it will change once the economy improves.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I know a lot of prestigious NY firms would recruit at Berkeley, and I'm sure that's even more true now. UCLA has probably gotten into the same category. As you know, it is not necessary that a firm recruit at a school in order to get a job at that firm. You're right that not as many NY firms recruit at the California schools than in NY; but on the other hand, not that many LA firms recruit in NY, and the LA firms are just as good if not as well-known.

P.S. Whether something gets you into the NY firms is not a measure of how "national" it is; only an east coaster would think of it that way.

Well I am certainly an East Coaster, lol. IDK, this is what I read at the time of applying, and then experienced a ton of provincialism. I think CA is a great state to be a lawyer. I just think the legal economy is just funny in the sense that the older folks in the industry seem under the impression that you'd be locked in to the area you went to school. I hope that changes, I don't know. Inevitably I think like we see with everything, the current situation will create winners and losers and I think the winners will be the employers that allow for flexibility as my generation certainly has sense of place but also would not frown upon the ability to move around.

 

[retired711]

My understanding is that LSAT and GPA did not recover fully post recession. if I was applying today I think I could get into Cornell or Georgetown. Maybe it will change once the economy improves.

Yes, but it's all relative. IRutgers Law School ranks 152 on undergrad GPA of successful applicants. That's independent of whether law school applicants generally have better or worse LSATs and GPAs.

 

[retired711]

Well I am certainly an East Coaster, lol. IDK, this is what I read at the time of applying, and then experienced a ton of provincialism. I think CA is a great state to be a lawyer. I just think the legal economy is just funny in the sense that the older folks in the industry seem under the impression that you'd be locked in to the area you went to school. I hope that changes, I don't know. Inevitably I think like we see with everything, the current situation will create winners and losers and I think the winners will be the employers that allow for flexibility as my generation certainly has sense of place but also would not frown upon the ability to move around.

It is generally in a student's interest to go to school where he or she wants to practice law because it will be easier to make contacts. If you're first in your class, then everyone everywhere will be open to you, but if you have to put out a lot of effort to find a job, then you're best off being in the job market where you want a job.

 

[sct1111]

Yes, but it's all relative. IRutgers Law School ranks 152 on undergrad GPA of successful applicants. That's independent of whether law school applicants generally have better or worse LSATs and GPAs.

Would that have anything to do with Rutgers' desire to be "diverse"?

 

[retired711]

Would that have anything to do with Rutgers' desire to be "diverse"?

Probably not. Usually minority applicants are especially weak in LSAT scores, so a heavy emphasis on minorities would lead to a lower LSAT median but not to a lower GPA average.. (I hope that made sense.)

 

[retired711]

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings

Rutgers Law School ranking slid from 76 to 96 and is tied for last in B1G with MSU. What is going on? The Newark/Camden merger seems to be a failure, so it's time to close them, move it to New Brunswick and start over. At the very least, close Camden and try the B-School approach of New Brunswick and Newark.

B1G, ACC, and local schools of interest:

1 Yale
3 Harvard
4 Columbia, Chicago
6 NYU, UPenn
8 UVA
10 Michigan, Duke
12 Northwestern
13 Cornell
15 Georgetown
20 BU
22 Minnesota, ND
24 UNC
27 GW
29 Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, BC
35 Fordham, W&L, W&M
40 Ohio State
41 Wake, George Mason
43 Indiana
50 Maryland
53 Temple, Nova, Richmond, Cardozo
58 UConn
60 PSU
67 Northeastern, Pitt
70 SHU
72 St. John's
81 American, Brooklyn, Drexel
87 Nebraska
91 Rutgers, Michigan State
98 Buffalo
102 Syracuse, CUNY, Catholic
116 Albany
119 Hofstra, Duquesne, NYLS

What were the rankings for Widener, a school with which Rutgers Law's Camden location competes? I am, btw, surprised at the low ranking for Buffalo.

 

[retired711]

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings

Rutgers Law School ranking slid from 76 to 96 and is tied for last in B1G with MSU. What is going on? The Newark/Camden merger seems to be a failure, so it's time to close them, move it to New Brunswick and start over. At the very least, close Camden and try the B-School approach of New Brunswick and Newark.

B1G, ACC, and local schools of interest:

1 Yale
3 Harvard
4 Columbia, Chicago
6 NYU, UPenn
8 UVA
10 Michigan, Duke
12 Northwestern
13 Cornell
15 Georgetown
20 BU
22 Minnesota, ND
24 UNC
27 GW
29 Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, BC
35 Fordham, W&L, W&M
40 Ohio State
41 Wake, George Mason
43 Indiana
50 Maryland
53 Temple, Nova, Richmond, Cardozo
58 UConn
60 PSU
67 Northeastern, Pitt
70 SHU
72 St. John's
81 American, Brooklyn, Drexel
87 Nebraska
91 Rutgers, Michigan State
98 Buffalo
102 Syracuse, CUNY, Catholic
116 Albany
119 Hofstra, Duquesne, NYLS

Note that Rutgers finishes behind Drexel, a relatively new law school in Philadelphia that competes witht he Camden branch. One component of these rankings is the amount of money spent per student. I would not be surprised if Drexel exceeds Rutgers Law in that respect; the central administration at Rutgers is very cheap with Rutgers Law (which, even so, runs over a $10 million annual deficit).

Although I taught at Camden for many years, I wonder if it's doable to have a branch of the law school there. Ideally the law school would be in New Brunswick -- I'll agree to that after years of arguing to the contrary. Rutgers just is not interested in the Newark and Camden campuses enough to make big investments there. but I doubt that the Rutgers central administration is interested enough in a law school to make the massive expenditure needed to establish one in NB. Rutgers historically did not have a law school -- both the Newark and Camden law operations were part of separate schools that merged with Rutgers -- and somehow the thought that having a good law school is important has never penetrated the administration's mind.

 

[Leonard23]

What were the rankings for Widener, a school with which Rutgers Law's Camden location competes? I am, btw, surprised at the low ranking for Buffalo.

Widener was #147-193. That's competition for Rutgers? 😬 What's surprising about Buffalo? I'll be honest I kind of forgot they had a law school as I never met anyone from there.

 

[Leonard23]

Note that Rutgers finishes behind Drexel, a relatively new law school in Philadelphia that competes witht he Camden branch. One component of these rankings is the amount of money spent per student. I would not be surprised if Drexel exceeds Rutgers Law in that respect; the central administration at Rutgers is very cheap with Rutgers Law (which, even so, runs over a $10 million annual deficit).

Although I taught at Camden for many years, I wonder if it's doable to have a branch of the law school there. Ideally the law school would be in New Brunswick -- I'll agree to that after years of arguing to the contrary. Rutgers just is not interested in the Newark and Camden campuses enough to make big investments there. but I doubt that the Rutgers central administration is interested enough in a law school to make the massive expenditure needed to establish one in NB. Rutgers historically did not have a law school -- both the Newark and Camden law operations were part of separate schools that merged with Rutgers -- and somehow the thought that having a good law school is important has never penetrated the administration's mind.

That's sad that it's behind Drexel. I'm glad you finally came around to consolidating it in NB/P 😂. I'd move it to Livingston with the B-School there or maybe downtown NB. You're right that they don't seem to care to invest in the law schools and it isn't sustainable to keep both. If they won't have 1 in NB/P or follow the B-School approach of a joint NB/P and Newark program, then at least close Camden and just have Newark. They can easily repurpose those law school buildings for other academic programs. As much as Rutgers tries to appeal to NYC and Philly, it's more NYC focused so this aligns with that.

 

[Greg2020]

I agree with everything @NotInRHouse said in this thread.

 

[retired711]

Widener was #147-193. That's competition for Rutgers? 😬 What's surprising about Buffalo? I'll be honest I kind of forgot they had a law school as I never met anyone from there.

I have; oddly enough, one of the Camden faculty's most distinguished faculty members came out of Buffalo's dual J.D./Ph.D. (philosophy) programs.

You're right about Widener; students who get into both go to Rutgers.

 

[retired711]

BTW, Rutgers' bar passage rate dropped in the year that U.S. News used in its rankings -- things were worse at Newark than Camden. The numbers are better this year. The school obviously needs to demand more of its students, especially in the first year.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Yes, but it's all relative. IRutgers Law School ranks 152 on undergrad GPA of successful applicants. That's independent of whether law school applicants generally have better or worse LSATs and GPAs.

Uffffff....how is that possible?! Are we gambling on risks we should not be?

 

[NotInRHouse]

It is generally in a student's interest to go to school where he or she wants to practice law because it will be easier to make contacts. If you're first in your class, then everyone everywhere will be open to you, but if you have to put out a lot of effort to find a job, then you're best off being in the job market where you want a job.

That's true.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Widener was #147-193. That's competition for Rutgers? 😬 What's surprising about Buffalo? I'll be honest I kind of forgot they had a law school as I never met anyone from there.

My whole time since passing the bar I think I met one person that went to law school at Buffalo. He's very successful, worked for a short time up there and then came down here. He's from Westchester originally.

It's kind of interesting in NY how if you want work in NYC it's expected you bypass the one SUNY law school, versus in NJ, where there's major provincialism surrounding RU and SHU, but strictly for law school. I am sure they are relishing the Tennessee alums you hear about on the mainboard so long as they get into a local school to show their NJ commitment. Bizzare for both states. No one would think because you went to law school at UC Davis or Irvine that you need to work in Sacramento or OC.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Would that have anything to do with Rutgers' desire to be "diverse"?

IDK if RU is still running that program where they basically take into "life experience" when factoring admission, versus every other law school in America. that basically runs your LSAT and GPA in a formula. But if so that would explain the GPA discrepancy.

RU by nature, as we see in the undergrad, will always be a diverse school being a public university in NJ, given both NJ's demographics and also the bizarre, backwards desire among NJ's aspiring 1% to shun the school. The law school is no exception,

A NB law school IMO could be choosy and still probably be the most diverse law school between Philly and NYC, perhaps CUNY aside. Generally the NYC schools advertise as diverse, which at least nationally speaking they were, but no on the level of RU-NB, not racially and CERTAINLY not in terms of rich kids and children of lawyers. I think probably at least 1/3 of my class 1L was kids of lawyers, at RU I didn't know one child of a lawyer or doctor. Fanciest would have been an engineer.

 

[retired711]

Uffffff....how is that possible?! Are we gambling on risks we should not be?

I don't know if the law school is doing that. The admissions office tries to predict the first-year GPA of each applicant, and presumably these applicants are coming out OK on that prediction. All the same, they must not be coming out very high. My uninformed guess is that the law school is admitting a whole lot of students whose GPA is predicted to be barely satisfactory. Almost none of these students will flunk out because there are virtually no professors who will give a grade less than C+. (There is safety in numbers; if there are a bunch of really bad papers, a prof can't very well give all of them poor grades.) But these students may not be very good when it comes to the bar exam, even though it is pass/fail.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I don't know if the law school is doing that. The admissions office tries to predict the first-year GPA of each applicant, and presumably these applicants are coming out OK on that prediction. All the same, they must not be coming out very high. My uninformed guess is that the law school is admitting a whole lot of students whose GPA is predicted to be barely satisfactory. Almost none of these students will flunk out because there are virtually no professors who will give a grade less than C+. (There is safety in numbers; if there are a bunch of really bad papers, a prof can't very well give all of them poor grades.) But these students may not be very good when it comes to the bar exam, even though it is pass/fail.

Last I saw RU had good pass numbers. The NJ bar was always easy and now they have the multi state which I believe is even easier.

 

[retired711]

IDK if RU is still running that program where they basically take into "life experience" when factoring admission, versus every other law school in America. that basically runs your LSAT and GPA in a formula. But if so that would explain the GPA discrepancy.

RU by nature, as we see in the undergrad, will always be a diverse school being a public university in NJ, given both NJ's demographics and also the bizarre, backwards desire among NJ's aspiring 1% to shun the school. The law school is no exception,

A NB law school IMO could be choosy and still probably be the most diverse law school between Philly and NYC, perhaps CUNY aside. Generally the NYC schools advertise as diverse, which at least nationally speaking they were, but no on the level of RU-NB, not racially and CERTAINLY not in terms of rich kids and children of lawyers. I think probably at least 1/3 of my class 1L was kids of lawyers, at RU I didn't know one child of a lawyer or doctor. Fanciest would have been an engineer.

The Newark and Camden branches of the law school have a common admissions office. I don't know how much emphasis it puts on admitting minorities. But if it did, that would reflect itself in lower LSAT medians, not lower GPA averages. LSATs and other Educational Testing Service exams are traditionally a problem for minority students, which is why there is so much pressure on law schools and colleges to pay little or no attention to them.

BTW. , my impression is that a college student has to be *really* bad these days to get a low GPA, given all the grade inflation that has been going on.

 

[retired711]

Last I saw RU had good pass numbers. The NJ bar was always easy and now they have the multi state which I believe is even easier.

I don't follow the numbers, but I understand the law school had a terrible problem with bar passage the year before last, and that the problem was worse at Newark than Camden. The NJ bar exam is very easy; I don't know if the multistate essays are easier.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I don't follow the numbers, but I understand the law school had a terrible problem with bar passage the year before last, and that the problem was worse at Newark than Camden. The NJ bar exam is very easy; I don't know if the multistate essays are easier.

They need an "ugh" react for these posts :(

 

[NotInRHouse]

The Newark and Camden branches of the law school have a common admissions office. I don't know how much emphasis it puts on admitting minorities. But if it did, that would reflect itself in lower LSAT medians, not lower GPA averages. LSATs and other Educational Testing Service exams are traditionally a problem for minority students, which is why there is so much pressure on law schools and colleges to pay little or no attention to them.

BTW. , my impression is that a college student has to be *really* bad these days to get a low GPA, given all the grade inflation that has been going on.

I would agree.

Though I can't see the LSAT being threatened like the SAT is. I don't think law schools feel they have a better method of evaluation.

 

[retired711]

I would agree.

Though I can't see the LSAT being threatened like the SAT is. I don't think law schools feel they have a better method of evaluation.

I agree that there's no real substitute for the LSAT other than flipping a coin. College grades are so high and so uniform these days that they really can't be used. But that doesn't mean the LSAT will necessarily last. I think in the next few years we will see a lot of emphasis on assuring access for minorities regardless of what effect that has on the standard metrics for assessment.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

I think the question you should also be asking is what did Penn State do better.

In 2000 Dickinson Law and Penn State completed a merger that began in 1997 (Penn State now in the Law School business).

Then Penn State opened a Law School at University Park.

The two campuses have operated as a single law school since 2006.

A law school ranking of 60 is respectable for a new entrant into the profession (IMHO).

HAIL TO PITT!!!!