Video: Gene Has a Bad Knee?
- Thread starter KnightTerrors
- Start date
As long as that video is
Don't dally on this. It's silliness, a crazy Monty Python sketch without the funny. You'd get headaches from the eye rolling that would come from reading each of these successive pieces of silliness. We have seasons' worth of actual games, the ones that count, they ones they score, the ones in which they all played, in which B1G competition was involved, and in which Omo was the no-argument-from-anybody best player RU had at essentially every phase of the game. You've seen that, and seen it often and repeatedly. So trust me, you're right, the most obviously right that you could ever be about anything. And then Omo says he's leaving, and this silliness starts. The reason that some folks have started writing this silliness is precisely why you think they've started writing it.
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If you say they don't correlate, explain why it's wrong....why apples to oranges....why is this departure different??
The message boards are alive and well....it's June 1st and people have opinions....i try to not give opinions....i add information to support the position.
I didn't bash anyone's character, i just dont think from a basketball team perspective, RU is not a better team with Eugene as the leading scorer, without an ability to break someone down off the dribble (Sanders) or score from Distance.
This isn't bashing anyone, it's called evolution of the program that is improving. Yeboah is a better overall player than Eugene. With that said, I am not yet sure that Yeboah automatically becomes option 1 on offense. But i do think RU becomes much more difficult to defend with Yeboah off the dribble and from distance vs Eugene.
There's nothing wrong with back and forth debates...i just think fans are reluctant to anticipate players improving from one season to the next. Fans want certainty....but college sports is not the place to look for stability or lack of change....change is the new normal....
Fans are reluctant to anticipate players improving? Fans expect it to happen.....just like we saw the improvement in Eugene from year 1 to 2 to 3. We expect Myles Johnson to improve. We expect Mathis to improve his shot by working on it this summer.
NJH...it is an opinion using facts to support.
You think we are the same without a healthy Eugene. I think we are 4 games worse without a healthy Eugene...these are both opinions...fancy stat packages just help arguments
You think we are the same without a healthy Eugene. I think we are 4 games worse without a healthy Eugene...these are both opinions...fancy stat packages just help arguments
Theoretically Eugene was going to improve from year 3 to 4. If anyone player that has played in the past 10 years demonstrating improvement it is Eugene.
You’re one of the most informed posters but the general consensus is a lot different than your specific tone. I agree with you the vast majority of the time. My issue specially with Eugene commentary is not that we won’t be ok, it’s that it makes us better and we wouldn’t benefit from having depth in the front court in this conference.
As for why I think it’s apples and oranges— Nigel was a decent player on a very bad team with no depth. He was never as meaningful a contributor as Gene. Whether he came back or not, maybe it meant 4 wins in conference rather than 3. This year, our hopes are legitimate contention for post season.
As for Corey, his departure allowed young guys to develop. He decided to leave early enough where we were able to land McConnell. EO has a grad transfer and a senior JUCO xfer he was realistically sharing minutes with. Even if he was outplayed, there was still a place for him to get minutes on this team even if he weren’t the focal point offensively. Corey leaving allowed McConnell to come in and the guards to be relied on to play major minutes. Even so, I still think Corey’s departure was understated and his contributions wildly under appreciated.
Improvement is expected....upside or ceiling is the reference point. Eugene wasn't a capable player in Year 1 at all, got better in Year 2 and based on the roster was the starter and improved more in Year 3. He's had 3 years to get to a player that can play and become a B1G level player. But without a jumper or inability to add that piece to his game, it limits a lot for the roster.
Maybe coming from such a long way from 2016 to 2019, was too much to ask for, but he's not a #1 or #2 option, without an ability to get his own basket off the dribble and without a jump shot.
The freshman we've recruited have a significantly better starting point and are not coming from as far behind as Eugene was as a freshman. The comparison of stat lines of this past year's freshman vs Eugene as a freshman isn't even worth discussing.
The players in place don't have to wait 2 more years to be able to generate their own points, shoot 3s and improve. They're already here.
The improvement items for the freshman turning sophs are already well documented. Mathis and Myles should be better from the line and add to their games on both ends of the court. Caleb needs to improve his handle, get stronger and add an ability to finish better in traffic. Harper getting in better shape and focus on defense and rebounding is key.
These items cannot always happen faster, if players like Thiam, Eugene and lesser extent Kiss, were in the way, blocking the development of better options.
I think Mulcahy has unique qualities as a passer and is unselfish, almost to a fault in HS and I've mentioned dozens of times, being a willing shooter and taking what defenses give him, will be important.
The players improving doesn't always translate that they have no.ceiling or unlimited upside.
I am the 1st one to question the media all B1G team.....
He did make honorable mention. That kind of is a big deal.
He did make honorable mention. That kind of is a big deal.
This is (again) simplifying things an awful lot, but Rutgers was 10-5* when Omoruyi attempted 9 shots or fewer, and 4-9 when he had double-digit shot attempts. Against power-conference schools only, the numbers are 6-4* and 2-9
*these records do not include the three games he was hurt for. Minnesota/Purdue were going to be losses no matter how many shots he took. Northwestern might have been different had he played.
One big question will be: Does Yeboah have 13 (up to 16, if you count games EO missed) games with double-digit shot attempts? My hope is no.
*these records do not include the three games he was hurt for. Minnesota/Purdue were going to be losses no matter how many shots he took. Northwestern might have been different had he played.
One big question will be: Does Yeboah have 13 (up to 16, if you count games EO missed) games with double-digit shot attempts? My hope is no.
C'mon what? You people act like yeboah was dogsh*t. He was a top 25 transfer on the market this year for a reason. Kid did everything. He was obviously good enough to scare off EO the coward.
Corey carried an entire program on his shoulders on the floor with way less talent than EO did last season. Corey was just as much a warrior without missing a game he wasn’t suspended from. Guess what happened when Corey decided to move on: the program got better. Guess what will happen with EO moving on: the program will get better. I see EO leaving no different than him staying and redshirting and Yeboah taking the bulk of his minutes, him staying and being outplayed by Yeboah and taking mins away from EO or EO getting injured and Yeboah taking his min.
Anyway you cut it, EO was not going to be on the floor as much as he was last season because of competition, injury, redshirting or transferring. Front court depth was definitely hit without EO but the program will be in position to have a better season.
GO RU
This summer starts 20 days from now.
But I'm sure that everything that happened in real games against real competition for real stakes for months and months changed drastically in the 2 1/2 months once those games ended.
This is another example of a contrived analysis that arises only because Omo said he was leaving. It's the wrong analysis. The question is whether the team next year--even if every non-Omo player improves and new ones contribute positively--would be better without its best player from last year or with him. The answer is obvious, which is precisely why you weren't posting this nonsense before this week: "hey, I hope Omo leaves so that we will be better next year than if he stays." It's precisely why Pike got on a plane to try to get him back. And it's precisely why Pike would take him back if he changes his mind. Next year's team is much better with him. Of course it is.
Next year’s team is not better without him but they are better than last year’s team. EO was not going to play the same amount of mins he played last year. Yeboah had a number of P5 offfer options and chose to come to RU; and guess what position he played? The 4. Same spot as EO. That’s why he left. Bottom line. His minutes were going nowhere but down. He was more concerned with being the number 1 option than playing team ball for the greater good. EO would not have been the #1 scoring option this season To be a number 1 scorer in major college ball you need an outside shoot, more specifically a three point shot. Geo, RHJ, Young and Yeboah all have one. Loved all EO gave while at RU but he saw the writing on the wall and didn’t want to play second fiddle to anyone and that is his right. Best of luck to him and hope RU balls out in front of his home town when we play in Toronto.
GO RU
It’s quite amazing how in the course of 80 days since the season ended the team’s best scorer, rebounder and defender was suddenly transformed into an anachronism. Gee, I wonder what happened during that time to make that so.
Denegrating former players in situations like this is part of the venting process that fans of any team go through.
Further, if you are going to use only simple stats to explain performance, I would suggest you review advanced stats to better understand EO's value to the team. For instance, he was not the teams best defender. Of the prominent players, both Mathis and Harper rank higher and Baker tied EO in defensive rating......Carter in limited minutes also ranked better. Also, EO had a very high usage rating for a non ball handler /pg at almost 30%. This means the ball was in his hands a significant amount of time and generally points to an ISO type volume scorer type player. His TS and EFG percentages would support this as a non three point shooting 4.
In terms of rebounding, Johnson ranks significantly higher in offensive rebounding percentage and although Gene ranked high in Def rebounding percent, both Johnson and Carter also ranked higher. His block percentage is also behind Johnson, Harper and Carter, all of whom are almost double to quadruple his percentage. I did not include Doorson in these stats as he will not be on the team next year.
Does this mean the team will be better without him as some others suggest......IMO no.... his stat value aside (and he certainly had significant stats) he also lead in intangeable factors, grit, leadership, strength in the box against other bangers etc. However, let's not overblow his value. With EO throughout his career, RU was a bottom feeder at worst and low middling at best. If EO was still on the team, advanced stats tell us that if you take some of EOs usage percentage and spread it to Johnson and Harper, the team will perform better, and they are only freshmen and could very likely get better. Given that, plus the adittion of Yeb and EO's history of dislocated knees, it was very likely he was looking at an impactful minute reduction barring injury to other players. .
I really liked EO with RU, and he will be a loss. But without him for one more year, the program is still trending upwards. Given the way he announced his transfer, it's not surprising the some fans here are denigrating him. Being a fan of RU is tough enough.....so its understandable why we take it personally when dissed by prospective, current and former players.
willlis...spot on. Its really quite bizarre and fascinating to see this spin on the board the past few days...but hardly surprising.
I don’t think this video is proof of anything. Could have been last summer. Nothing on that clip proves that it was just taken this past week
Keep in mind any stat comparison for last year takes into account two injuries - one during Game 14 vs. OSU and one during Game 28 @ Iowa, both of which hampered him. Assuming those same numbers heading into next year would assume that Omoruyi also gets injured again midway through the season and has a second injury toward the end of the season.
Not shocking that you and Willis are giving the most negative spin possible. Very in character
The stats don't tell "us" that. They tell "you” that. I'm fairly confident that the extrapolation that you'd really like to make from fewer minutes to more, from playing more often against second team to playing more often against starters, from playing with the other team not focused on you to the other team focused intensely on you wouldn't get lots of support from those who objectively create and use these stats. But keep data mining. Eventually, you will (and always will) get to precisely where you wanted to get when you decided to look--now that he left.
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It sure is odd to learn how noting that the player universally recognized as our best player was in fact our best player becomes negative and spin once he leaves. A good reminder to be wary when someone simply pulls out the spin label.
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What would people say about Geo Baker’s game if he left. No one would dare say it now.
Can you imagine if he was under the same microscope.
Can you imagine if he was under the same microscope.
This is by far the best post on this topic and spot on. We can end the discussion now.
Some of this is bordering on ridiculous.....
Eugene doesn't block shots, he takes charges. Please don't quote block percentages. One day they will have charges taken as a category (and charge success rate for Eugene haters). You can quote offensive ratings, but PLEASE do not post defensive ratings. Offense is somewhat quantifiable, defense is NOT. DON'T DO IT!!!!
There is an arguement/silver lining on why Eugene leaving isn't all that bad. Argue that case. Let's not try to say Eugene wasn't good or that a player on an American East team is for sure a better player.
Eugene doesn't block shots, he takes charges. Please don't quote block percentages. One day they will have charges taken as a category (and charge success rate for Eugene haters). You can quote offensive ratings, but PLEASE do not post defensive ratings. Offense is somewhat quantifiable, defense is NOT. DON'T DO IT!!!!
There is an arguement/silver lining on why Eugene leaving isn't all that bad. Argue that case. Let's not try to say Eugene wasn't good or that a player on an American East team is for sure a better player.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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1) He wasn't our best scorer. In fact the games he was our top scorer the team as a whole was awful those games and record far worse.
2) He most certainly wasn't our best defender. Need I remind you how he got pushed around and could never guard the post? If you're having trouble remembering, go back and watch the illinois game. We lost that game because gene was just bullied by giorgi all night
Way to cherry pick one game in which NO ONE could stop Giorgi. Doorson actually guarded him most of the game and Eugene tried in OT to shoulder that load. It was a once in a lifetime offensive performance, not a signal of Eugene’s failure. Though I’m sure at LA Fitness they would’ve sent the help defender early.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
This video means nothing in terms of the condition of his knee. Being one who has had 3 knee surgeries, you can do physical therapy and rehab, come back feeling 100%, move great and play great. However, it only takes one simple mis-step or seemingly innocuous knock on the knee to send you back to the injured list if the knee is not structurally sound. EO having dislocated his knee twice appears to have a knee that is not structurally sound. I would have been surprised if he made it through next season knee injury free.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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what is eugene's net charge # though? In other words for every time he takes a charge what is the net result? How many result in a block? How many result in a flop and a free two points when he's on his ass? How many result in a whiff?
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