When does Pike need to start actually winning games?

[superfan01]

I fully support Pike, but with this season likely to have Rutgers finish at or near the bottom of the BIG again when does Pike face the heat to actually win games rather than just be competitive. I was thinking year 4 is when he must start showing tangible progress in the win/loss column but what do others think?

When does he have to start winning these games?

 

[whofrewdatmataRU13]

If we don't have a winning season next year than everyone on the board needs to stop giving out participation trophies

 

[RUblackshirt2006]

It’s not his fault, it’s poor shooting, guys disappearing in the offense

 

[bac2therac]

I think year 4 is where the wins and losses will be judged

 

[Goku]

For me, next season

 

[gmay8]

Immediately

 

[RU_DIO]

Next year. You can see the team needs experience and a point guard.

 

[mikefla]

We are in 3 year of a total rebuild
Of a team that has sucked for decades

With our record it isnt like players are flocking to Rutgers to play

The only thing we have right now is a coach that scrambles to find players he can develop
based on his ability to present himself and RU in a positive light...with a future.

Its not an easy job.......

 

[jonS]

You can see the talent is there. You can see the development of players . You can see the light beginning to form at the end of the tunnel. Next year will be a turning point in the program and the wins will come. In the meantime , there are many games that remain to be played this year and it's too early to write off this year...

 

[Scarlet Shack]

16-15 is next year’s goal and attainable

 

[MadRU]

Been saying this for a while, this season is the last of the building a foundation. For me next year is the first year of the turnaround.

No need to put a number of wins and loses or NIT NCAA talk, but the turnaround starts.

People seemed to expect too much this season. Losing Corey, Freeman, and Mike was a lot. Geo is forced to do too much this year in a position that’s not his natural position at this level, imho.

If everyone comes back next season, plus one more, we will have depth at every position and Geo can play more off the ball.

I think Jacob Young can give us the change of pace we are lacking this season. And hopefully the last scholarship will be someone that will contribute .

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

The smart fans or aware fans looked at the roster and saw 7 upperclassmen at the time Pike started, Thiam as a freshman commit with Eddie Jordan.

The same smart fans saw 7 upperclassmen...mixed with that was Sanders who was the underclassmen that most resembled a B1G player.

There was no viable path to have Year 3 be winning season unless in Year 3, most of the roster was comprised of juniors and seniors.

For those asking or saying it shouldn't matter, that's up for debate, but the upperclassmen that were here for Years 1 and 2 were Ibrahima Diallo, Deshawn Freeman, Mike Williams, Shaq Doorson, Jonathan Laurent, Candido Sa (a late add recruit from JUCO without a full roster) and CJ Gettys, added as your 9th or 10th body as a grad transfer in Year 1.....and Eugene who was a very late.signee for 2017 in August.

The Year 3 roster has Eugene (added very late), Baker who was the 1st recruit of note in summer of 2016, and Thiam with Matt Bullock, who was taken on to fill out the roster and add a Jersey kid to the roster that was connected to Naz Reid.....(if you have to ask who Naz Reid is, stop reading now, nothing above would make sense, if you have no awareness of basketball in the area).

You have Doorson as a 5th year big man, off injuries most his career, Shaq Carter in his 1st year as JUCO, and literally 5 1st year players in their 1st action.

The one disappointing piece has been Doucoure who really could have stayed as a 2018 recruit and reclassified early to help shore up the gaps on the roster last year. He really should be listed with the freshman below

Harper Jr
Mathis
McConnell
Myles Johnson

The addition of Texas transfer Jacob Young will help as will 2019 freshman Paul Mulcahy.

Even as we move into next year, the bulk of your roster is sophomores and juniors, mixed with a hard working senior in Eugene and a very inconsistent and limited player in Thiam.

One could argue that maybe you shed Thiam as a new staff, but he was signed, and someone had to play a lot of those minutes in Years 1 and 2. The B1G and this league exposes incomplete players and limits what you can do.

I know there's carryover frustration from football that has fans looking for something to get excited over and they want wins now. But there are less gaps and much more balance in B1G basketball top to bottom vs football.

It's going to take more recruiting, with recruiting the right kids and families without a price tag. College hoops carries 340 to 350 schools and RU is on the right path. Barring any major injuries, Years 4 through 6 should be better than Years 1 through 3.

If your expectations are to be in the Top 25 year in and year out, that lies with the commitment by the entire school financially, like it has dedicated to football. We have a legitimate facility being built that signals a change not yet ever seen at RU and the staff is in my opinion the right mix of leadership to build things the right way.

Doesn't mean it's perfect but RU is ahead of schedule IMO.

 

[Section114]

Based on Hobbs having Ash return, Pike has another 10 years to turn in a winning record before worrying.

 

[rufeelinit]

Not sure why anyone would distinguish our shooting ability or lack there of from the assessment of Pike's performance thus far. I have seen this in a couple of thread. He builds the roster and should filling those deficiencies. Hopefully over the course of the year it is proven that guys like Kiss, Harper and an improved EO represent improved shooting. Would also help if one of our bigs shows something with some consistency on the offensive end.

I don't think any impatience is just carryover from football. Fans have been waiting a long time for a decent basketball team. Its not Pike's fault that we have been inept for so long, but unfortunately some will not want to hear that this takes 6 years to build an NCAA tournament team.

We need to win ASAP, and I think year 4 for any coach not dealing with a probation situation, is a reasonable period to expect them to start winning more than they are losing. I also don't think it is unreasonable to expect us to get out of the conference basement this year. However the more I see I am less certain that is going to happen.

 

[biazza38]

If you have to ask this question, one has to wonder if you know what you’re talking about

 

[NickKnight 1]

It’s not his fault, it’s poor shooting, guys disappearing in the offense

Is it because his emphasis is more on defense, and tall players than the offense? He has a tendency to sit guys like
Kiss and Harper for defensive reasons. But his offense really sucks, oh sure defense is also important but the object of the
game is put the round ball in the hole. Let Harper and Kiss loose and bring in another shooter.

 

[blockm2]

I think for Rutgers this year improvement should be measured more in absolute terms (KenPom rank or similar computer metrics) because their SOS is going to be significantly harder than it was last year with the Big Ten being so much tougher. T-rank projects end of year SOS rank of #30 for Rutgers this year compared to #76 last year.

 

[DocRU]

Its painfully obvious Pike needs a signature recruit, a go to guy, a star player to get this program over the hump. Sad to say, but this season was lost the moment Corey Sanders decided to leave. No question Pike has built a nice roster of complementary players. And the guy can coach for sure. Its a go to guy we desperately need. Without that, forget about 500 records or tourneys.

 

[zebnatto]

Don’t know if you’ll buy it, but another positive way to look at it:

Take this year’s SHU team (which looks like a tourney team) and RU without Shaquille D AND without Mulcahy or Young, put them on the floor a year from today and I pick us to win.

 

[zebnatto]

I think for Rutgers this year improvement should be measured more in absolute terms (KenPom rank or similar computer metrics) because their SOS is going to be significantly harder than it was last year with the Big Ten being so much tougher. T-rank projects end of year SOS rank of #30 for Rutgers this year compared to #76 last year.

As good as anything else I’ve heard.

 

[Goku]

Its painfully obvious Pike needs a signature recruit, a go to guy, a star player to get this program over the hump. Sad to say, but this season was lost the moment Corey Sanders decided to leave. No question Pike has built a nice roster of complementary players. And the guy can coach for sure. Its a go to guy we desperately need. Without that, forget about 500 records or tourneys.

I agree. I like the direction of the program but when you come in second place for Hyatt and Massoud, it delays the growth of the program. Pike needs scorers. Adding young and mulcahy next year adds 2 scorers because we get young and mulcahy running the point allows geo to focus on being just a 2 next year and score more. But the way pike has recruited so far (pretty good but not great) this rebuild looks like it needs 7 years to get to the big dance. I’ll wait for it. Some fans on here won’t, or will b!+ch and complain a lot more along the way.

 

[SirScarlet]

The fact that some Rutgers fans are getting on Pike just shines a light on how clueless some people are. What he has done in 2 years with this roster is simply remarkable.

There have been hiccups and screwups along the way...no doubt. Pike is far from perfect. BUT...we have a stand up guy who by all accounts wants to be here and represents our University and bball program as well as anyone i have ever seen. He deserves our almost unconditional support through 4 years (imho)

That said, it is fair to start evaluating his progress on wins and losses next year.

 

[Pils86]

The program was in shambles when he took over, having to go back to 2005-6 to our last winning record and taking over a 7-25 team, but I think by year 4 playing .500 ball should be expected. I believe the frosh and sophs are better at this stage than our junior and seniors were when they were fr/soph so the trend it good. We seem to be able to play with good teams but not beat them, but I think one great player would put us over that hump, hopefully we find that guy.

 

[shields]

The Penn State coach won NIT in his 7th season. Took him awhile to get the Stevens Tony Carr class.

 

[RUJMM78]

Its painfully obvious Pike needs a signature recruit, a go to guy, a star player to get this program over the hump. Sad to say, but this season was lost the moment Corey Sanders decided to leave. No question Pike has built a nice roster of complementary players. And the guy can coach for sure. Its a go to guy we desperately need. Without that, forget about 500 records or tourneys.

I like your analysis because it has been proven for decades that Rutgers can't win with a squad full of complementary players that don't generate points on a consistent basis. A consistent go to scorer averaging at least 18 points per game is a absolute must especially in close games where a couple baskets is the difference between winning and losing.At the same time the rest of the squad needs more offensive contributors so that the point total averages closer to 70 points than 60 points per game.

This topic has generated varying viewpoints for many years/decades but the results have remained the same.Winning matters in sports especially with power conference teams yet at Rutgers I see no sense of urgency for most sport teams.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

As I have said many times. In Year 1 this year. Pike made a mistake not starting fresh. Real year 3 and we don't have a PG on the roster.

 

[jonS]

Its painfully obvious Pike needs a signature recruit, a go to guy, a star player to get this program over the hump. Sad to say, but this season was lost the moment Corey Sanders decided to leave. No question Pike has built a nice roster of complementary players. And the guy can coach for sure. Its a go to guy we desperately need. Without that, forget about 500 records or tourneys.

I agree. What Rutgers lacks right now is a player that can impose his will on a game and score when two points are desperately needed.

 

[kcg88]

I agree. What Rutgers lacks right now is a player that can impose his will on a game and score when two points are desperately needed.

Right now and for the last 13 years...

 

[dpwhite]

As I have said many times. In Year 1 this year. Pike made a mistake not starting fresh. Real year 3 and we don't have a PG on the roster.

Losing Jose Alvarado to Georgia Tech at the last minute really sets us back in year 3.

 

[Caliknight]

Its painfully obvious Pike needs a signature recruit, a go to guy, a star player to get this program over the hump. Sad to say, but this season was lost the moment Corey Sanders decided to leave. No question Pike has built a nice roster of complementary players. And the guy can coach for sure. Its a go to guy we desperately need. Without that, forget about 500 records or tourneys.

I agree with this. We have some decent role type guys but we need shooters and a stud. We have neither. Hopefully we can land one in the upcoming classes.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

We aren't a rebuild. We're a build.
We went from complete laughing stock to competitive in every game. That's major progress.
For me, Pike is on the clock starting next season.

 

[blockm2]

I agree with this. We have some decent role type guys but we need shooters and a stud. We have neither. Hopefully we can land one in the upcoming classes.

also only have 1 senior (Doorson) and 3 juniors (Omeruyi, Thiam, and Carter). KenPom ranks Rutgers 307 out of 353 teams in experience this year.

 

[bac2therac]

Losing Jose Alvarado to Georgia Tech at the last minute really sets us back in year 3.

we also lost Strickland to Wisconsin

 

[dpwhite]

we also lost Strickland to Wisconsin

Yup but Jose would have been in and experienced by now. Strickland wouldn’t have started I don’t think.

 

[Plum Street]

Next year .

 

[biazza38]

we also lost Strickland to Wisconsin

We landed McConnell afterwards. Alavarado is the difference between winning and losing.

 

[nikoru09]

Losing Jose Alvarado to Georgia Tech at the last minute really sets us back in year 3.

that was a heart breaker...the kid can do it all.....we should have bought him a car lol...when is our next phil sellers, jammin james, or quincy douby commin aboard....we need a break through recruit.....naz reid would have been a good get....oh well....pike, and staff are giving it all they got...its hard to blame them

 

[kcg88]

Agreed on just missing out on signature recruits, especially with transfers factored in. Could you imagine the Martin twins here? Gah.

Fred Hill Jr landed Mike Rosario. Mike Rice got the splashy class of Mack, Jack, Biruta, Poole, Kone, and Seagers. Even Eddie Jordan got Corey Sanders.

Mathis was a nice win on the recruiting trail, as is Mulcahy. Heck even getting Doucoure was good at the time. I trust Pikiell to be able to do more with the guys he's getting than Hill, Rice, or Jordan did with the guys above but man it'd be sweet to either bring in a huge star or a balanced top-20 class.

 

[RUChoppin]

Next year is when I start having expectations.

Team will finally be upperclassman heavy, with the sophomores having had a decent amount of experience this year. It will be one of the most experienced teams we've had on the banks in a very long time.

Sr: Omoruyi, Thiam, Carter (JC)
Jr: Baker, Young (RS), Kiss (RS), Doucoure
So: Mathis, Johnson (RS), Harper, McConnell
Fr: Mulcahy, TBD

 

[bowlgoal]

Been saying this for a while, this season is the last of the building a foundation. For me next year is the first year of the turnaround.

No need to put a number of wins and loses or NIT NCAA talk, but the turnaround starts.

People seemed to expect too much this season. Losing Corey, Freeman, and Mike was a lot. Geo is forced to do too much this year in a position that’s not his natural position at this level, imho.

If everyone comes back next season, plus one more, we will have depth at every position and Geo can play more off the ball.

I think Jacob Young can give us the change of pace we are lacking this season. And hopefully the last scholarship will be someone that will contribute .

Right on the money. This is the first year of the Pikiell era and besides losing the Fordham game, there’s not many surprises so far. I thought we might beat St. John’s and Seton Hall could go either way but who knew St. John’s was going to start 10-0 and we could beat Seton Hall on any given day. We just didn’t shoot well and the offense isn’t fully clicking yet.

There’s a fine line between winning and losing and it’s called experience. That’s what this year is all about. We went from one major scorer in Corey to more of a team effort. If you like to watch competitive basketball and go into most every game knowing there’s a chance we could get the W, that’s what this year is about. Unfortunately, this is the toughest league in the country so there are no homecomings. You can get whacked on any given day!