Where are all the 4 stars?
- Thread starter jakeknight
- Start date
Yeah agree but there is a reason for the ranking. You will never compete with the big school when they are bringing in double digit 4 stars and 3-4 5 stars and you aren’t.
Retired 711, makes a good point NIL, is primarily directed toward the portal, you buy exactly what you need and what has proven to perform at the P5 level. If what you need is not in the portal you poach it and get it in the portal.
Nobody is going to throw around big bucks on unproven HS kids that need a year or two to develop, other than for a top 100 hs recruit who could be perceived as can’t miss. It doesn’t make sense any other way.
Nobody is going to throw around big bucks on unproven HS kids that need a year or two to develop, other than for a top 100 hs recruit who could be perceived as can’t miss. It doesn’t make sense any other way.
The important thing isn't that players are 4: stars when they come out of high school. The important thing is that they play like 4 stars after they've been in the program.
Yeah, I don't get the Illinois and West Virginia decisions.
Did we offer ?
Can we first improve by not getting shut out by Maryland... No 3-star offensive player who's worth his weight wants to come play for this train wreck of an offense
Ray Rice was a 3 star...until he stepped on the field. Then he was a 5 star.
Let's let performance speak to the rating of stars.
MO
Only the # 1....Bisontis.
Definitely a down year in NJ. Slim pickings at qb and rb.
Uhhh it’s a hell of a lot more Greg’s fault than our fans…. NIL is turning into the best thing to happen to Greg 2.0. This new version of Greg is nothing like 1.0, that guy didn’t make excuses at every turn and blame what he inherited 3 full seasons into his rebuild. Now Greg’s got the NIL excuse to milk with our fans while he collects his $32 million. Because god knows it’s more important to some of our fans that Greg Schiano is our coach rather than Rutgers win.
It’s definitely more Greg because that’s his job. You must be the only one that thinks NIL is good for us.
I didn’t say it was good for us l, I said it was good for Greg bc it buys him even more excuses, however it’s not as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. It’s simply now the latest excuse some of our fans are using to rationalize paying Greg $32 million to lead a garbage football team.
As far as the guys we aren’t landing in recruiting, we aren’t targeting the big NIL money guys. I’m gonna give you a list of teams right now who somehow in spite on NIL managed to land 4* recruits… Illinois, Vanderbilt, UCF, Memphis, Arizona, Northwestern, wake forest, Oregon State, Indiana…
In fact, according to 247 rankings Rutgers is the ONLY big ten team this recruiting cycle to not land a single 4*…. This isn’t about the blue bloods, this is about how we are and continue to be the worst of the lower tier teams. Don’t talk to me about how much NIL is effecting us when UCF and Vandy are landing 4*’s…
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Yet, we didn’t rank last in the B1G in recruiting. You can downplay NIL all you want. But facts are facts. Top 2 NJ kids are going to TAM and Texas this year. They got zero kids in NJ in the last 2 recruiting classes. But you think it’s the relationship or all the winning they are doing.
I've said the same before when everyone was panicking and still are about NIL. The dyanmics are what they've always been. Teams that had more still do and the teams that didn't still don't. Nothing has really changed on a relative basis. If anything the talent is spread out a little more than it was from the top on down. In recent times you never used to see A&M, Texas, Miami at the very top. They were up there but not at the cream of the cream level but because of NIL they're around there. So a slight widening of the talent pool at the top and same as you go down.
In the end, I've always said it's different for every player. There's still a limit on playing time and starting time and the top teams can't take all the recruits and all the transfers. There's a balance between playing and money and some may cash in for a bit and then leave to somewhere else with more opportunity to play but less or no money. Everyone defaults straight to NIL for every situation when that's not the case. Sometimes it is, sometimes it is a little bit and sometimes it isn't at all.
That’s been happening for years!!! You gotta be kidding me. Remember a guy named Jabril Peppers from Don Bosco?
The excuse making for Greg is comical at this point. NIL had nothing to do with the abomination we saw on the field this year. We lost our top 3 wr’s, TE, and already had a trash offense. No OC, no transfers. Maybe another year of getting our heads kicked in on the field will help you and others realize the disaster that is Greg Schiano 2.0
Did you read the article? It just says the blue bloods will continue to dominate. Last time I checked, we are not blue blood.
Haha. Mich recruits NJ. They used to hold camps in NJ. How many kids went to Mich the last 2 years from NJ compared to TAM and Texas combined?
I read the article before he even posted it. The blue bloods always took the top recruits and they still do so what's different. If anything it has spread a little more like I said with Miami, A&M, Texas types getting up to the Alabama, UGA, Clemson, OSU level. That's showing a slight spreading of the talent at the top like I said.
We're not a blue blood and the dynamics are still the same as they've always been but if anything is changed it's a slight spreading out of the talent more than it had been.
From the article:
From 2017 to 2021, an average of 45.4 of the top 100 recruits signed with the top five teams in the recruiting rankings. If you add 2022, sort of a hybrid NIL, non-NIL recruiting year, the six-year average rises to 47.0. If you stretch back a decade, it’s 43.7.
Having almost half of the nation’s elite talent sign with such a small number of programs is not ideal. Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Clemson and LSU were in the top five multiple times, if not every year. Not surprisingly, they are the only programs to win national titles during the playoff era.
For the Class of 2023, with NIL promises supposedly flowing, the top five teams in the recruiting rankings are Alabama, Georgia, Miami, Texas and Ohio State.
They cumulatively signed … 41 of the top 100 players as of Wednesday. One or two more top 100 recruits may still go with those schools. We’ll see.
Whatever the final number is — likely the low 40s — it looks remarkably similar to and statistically in line, if not below, with what recruiting looked like before NIL was supposed to make the rich get richer as they bought every player.
That’s right, the top-rated schools not only didn’t sign more of the top-rated talent, they actually signed fewer.
To me, the only thing missing is the article is the correlation between money and blue blood. it was hard before, but it’s impossible now. It’s like why do blue blood schools get good coaches?
Oh my god does it matter? Those kids were never coming to RU to begin with. If you think the reason we didn’t land them is NIL I have some beachfront property in Kansas for you.
Look, I get it sucks when your argument is discredited, but that’s what’s happened. Enough with the excuse making for Greg. He makes enough excuses at his press conferences without our fans help
That's no different than it's always been. We are a school that has to do more with less. I'm okay with that and it is what it is. That has to be accepted and that is what is needed from whomever the coach is. We keep trying until we find one who can. I don't complain about recruit rankings (don't really care about them for the most part) or whatever budget is. I've always said find a way to make it work with what you have.
I've posted this in the other thread and I'll post it here too again. I didn't even remember Utah and the great job Whittingham has done. I think I read he just got his first top 20 or 25 recruiting class at Utah. Don't know which service. He's won 7-11 games every year in the PAC12 except 2 and had 4 double digit win seasons and multiple CFP rankings. He's just won the PAC12 title 2 years in a row for the first time at Utah. They don't have the resources or recruiting rankings of USC/Oregon and some others in the PAC12 but they've been respectable or much better.
From the other thread:
I've mentioned these many times here. Examples of lower status programs having some flashes or somewhat consistent results of respectability or better. Also note that none of these coaches were big name big money hires. Mike Leach would be the exception. He was a name but not sure he was big money when WSU hired him. It was when no one wanted to hire him after the TT controversy. It's why I'm perfectly fine with whatever budget we have. Find a way to make it work with what you have.
Jonathan Smith at Oregon State 7 wins in year 4, 10 wins in year 5 and CFP #14 They compete with Oregon/USC even if their recruiting is not the same level. Beat Oregon this year when Oregon had the PAC12 title on the line. Just got a commit from inconsistent but potentially productive former 5 star DJU from Clemson. Funny enough his brother committed to Oregon.
Lance Leipold 6 regular season wins in year 2 at Kansas a program that has had 4 coaches in 10 years and averaged less than 2 wins over a decade, point isn't that this will last. It may or may not but a flash of respectability at the very least.
Mike Elko 8 wins in year 1 after only 1 win in the ACC the last 2 years. At the very least another flash of respectability.
Derek Mason the former coach of Vandy had 6 win regular seasons , 3-5 in the SEC in years 3 and 5 of his tenure
Dave Clawson at WF with at least 7 wins every year starting in year 3, except the pandemic year and 11 wins last year with CFP rank of 17. They've beaten FSU 3 times in a row and have competed admirably against Clemson at times. WF often recruits at the bottom of the ACC and I think it was them I posted about recently for the first time getting a class inside the top 50 at 49. Not sure which service was used.
Chris Klieman at KSU, 3 out of his first 4 years (pandemic year was the exception) he's won 8 games and this year 10 wins along with the B12 title CFP ranked #9. He's beaten OU 3 times and competed with Texas. Both schools recruit much better than KSU.
Even Tom Allen at IU had a flash of respectability at IU when he hired Kalen DeBoer (current Washington HC) as his OC for a year. Had an 8 win season in year 4 (DeBoer's OC year) and 6-2 season in year 5 in the pandemic year with CFP rank 11.
Mike Leach at WSU with at least 6-9 wins almost every year except 1 starting in year 2. 11 wins in 2018 and CFP rank 13. Jake Dickert the one time interim and now full time HC after that whole vaccine controversy with Rolovich went 3-3 his first year and got 7 wins this year.
Leach goes to Miss St, also a tough place to win and wins 7-8 games in years 2 and 3 with a 4-4 SEC record. 2 coaches before Mullen won 6-10 games every year at Miss St starting at year 2. Got ranked twice in the CFP rankings at #7 and #23
LOL. Now you are arguing against yourself. You blame GS for not getting kids that were never coming to RU. I do seem to remember that Greg did get the #1 player in NJ recently
I’m only disagreeing with you because you keep saying it’s no different. Yes, we are always at a disadvantage. But NIL puts it at another level.
No I blame GS for being an incompetent developmental and game day coach that no talented hs player with better options would ‘take a chance’ on. I’m saying the initial excitement of Greg’s return has worn off and there is nothing tangible offensively that points to progress. I blame Greg for making excuses rather than adapt and take responsibility. I blame Greg for our 4* qb looking like a baby deer learning to walk on the field this year.
But most of all, I blame our fans for letting him get away with it bc of the Louisville game
I don’t agree. I think it’s the same level. I think dynamics are the same or slightly better because the resources most schools had before are the same they have now. I didn’t miss suddenly a bunch of schools like Pitt, WVU, Cuse, BC, Illinois, IU, WF etc spending tons of money on NIL and pushing us down the chain.
If anything the potential is always there and “easier” for any school to come along and crash the party should some billionaire alum/supporter pop out. I don’t know that a billionaire alone would have been enough with only the bells and whistles to contribute to before NIL. Now theoretically you can get the top players if you’re any school and have tons of money someone is willing to spend.
Believe it or not, Cal (yes, Cal!) got a commitment from a four-star (Jojo Solis, a running back from a Catholic high school in Southern California --not the kind of school that easily sends its graduates to a secular school in Northern California)) despite all their issues. Of course, one swallow does not a spring make, but it doesn't say good things about us.
BTW, you can see that he says his motivations are the relationships he built with the staff, the school's academic reputation, and the excitement in the home stadium during the rivalry game with Stanford. These are all things that Rutgers should be able to build. https://bearinsider.com/s/3440/bears-pull-in-commit-from-4-star-soph-rb-jojo-solis/2
BTW, you can see that he says his motivations are the relationships he built with the staff, the school's academic reputation, and the excitement in the home stadium during the rivalry game with Stanford. These are all things that Rutgers should be able to build. https://bearinsider.com/s/3440/bears-pull-in-commit-from-4-star-soph-rb-jojo-solis/2
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1. Not that it matters, but I believe we didn't finish last by average recruit rankings.
2. If "relationships" don't matter then I guess our entire staff of "NJ relationships" isn't as valuable anymore? Good we can finally stop with the "need NJ roots" nonsense then and hire based on actual coaching ability and not what zip code you were born in.
I agree with the second point. Relationships are made primarily by how good your team is, and how attractive your school is. In the last analysis, it comes down to the product you're selling just as in all walks of life.
I wasn't impressed by either one of them. Did Rutgers offer ?
I thought the best quarterback prospect in the state was the kid whose father coaches at Princeton....A. J. Surace.
He's a junior though.
You noticed he said "last 2 years" right? That's bc he knows Texas A&M has a recruiter from New Jersey - who was already bringing top Jersey guys to Texas. Fran Brown put a stop to it, but now that he's gone - its feasting season again. NIL is just his excuse for Greg not being able to get it done
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