Why are some "football only" fans either apathetic or anti-hoops?

[Local Shill]

I can only surmise you either wanted nothing to do with RU football from about 1996-2002 or have chosen to forget how unbelievably wretched this program was. How else to explain the dismissive attitude toward the only other program that has any chance to be relevant with the population at large?

We -meaning this board -skewered Barchi and the BOG for running Pernetti out on a rail two years ago.. So where's the outrage that RU refuses to do what's needed to fix basketball?

The basketball program needs a lot of help. And that means money. Money that's more than likely going to have to be borrowed. Just like the athletic department had to borrow to fund the stadium expansion that was essential to getting into the B1G.
Every day that nothing is done makes the job of getting the program back to respectability that much harder.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[derleider]

Originally posted by Local Shill:
I can only surmise you either wanted nothing to do with RU football from about 1996-2002 or have chosen to forget how unbelievably wretched this program was. How else to explain the dismissive attitude toward the only other program that has any chance to be relevant with the population at large?

We -meaning this board -skewered Barchi and the BOG for running Pernetti out on a rail two years ago.. So where's the outrage that RU refuses to do what's needed to fix basketball?

The basketball program needs a lot of help. And that means money. Money that's more than likely going to have to be borrowed. Just like the athletic department had to borrow to fund the stadium expansion that was essential to getting into the B1G.
Every day that nothing is done makes the job of getting the program back to respectability that much harder.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Some people just dont like basketball, and of them, some of them are also sports fans only of Rutgers, so they dont really care if other sports do well.

Some people probably see it as competition with FB (which is definitely is - a big part of the decline in popularity of BB is almost surely due to football coming to prominence at the exact same time.)

The athletic department borrowed for FB with a specific revenue source - FB tickets, specifically, new ticket sales in the new sections. Just like the rest of the university, BB will have to get money from outside sources (in this case donations - since grants and such arent usually available for athletics projects) if it wants to build something without a revenue source (i.e. practice facilities.)

And even the FB borrowing was very contentious - it more or less cost Mulcahey his job.

And you are wrong. Every day that nothing is done is just another day the program sucks. We have reached for all intents and purposes rock bottom. We could be worse on the court or in the stands - but it wont matter qualitatively - being 14th by a mile or a meter is still last place.

 

[bac2therac]

Spot on Shill...the reality is that basketball in 2015 is the equivalent of football in 1999 which means only investment can pull it out. The resistence here is quite hypocritical. And this should not turn into a bball vs football thing. I would say 98% of Ru hoops fans are also big football fans as well. In the past I have been slammed for bitching about basketball not getting theirs well what we see right now with the bball program is what 15 years plus of letting things rot on the vine will get you...its exactly what I feared

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Dito bac and shill

 

[Local Shill]

derleider -
We'll have to agree to disagree on that last part. We've already lost a generation of fans essentially. Now we're working on a second generation. season ticket numbers continue to dwindle and the overwhelming majority of those that are left aren't - to put it kindly -young.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[applesktrack]

I just don't like watching basketball. I am apathetic, I mean I hope they do well as I do with all Rutgers sports. I just can't stand watching it.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Money doesn't solve everything.

Take a look at PSU. They sucked at MBB when they joined the Big Ten.... they built a brand new Basketball area that held twice as many people. 20 years since joining the Big Ten they still suck at MBB and the area is half empty at best for most games.

Maybe Rutgers is different, maybe it has enough support to sell out 15,000 ticket for every game. Perhaps the only thing stopping UK level talent from coming here is the old RAC and lack of dedicated practice facilities.

I can't say that for sure, however.

They have spruce up the RAC since joining the Big Ten, it doesn't look as bad on TV as it did during the Big East days. So it is not like they are putting zero into it.

However, there doesn't appear to be enough fan support and by support I mean donations to go half on a $30 million dollar practice facility.

Even when TP had mock up drawings he only raise enough for the new clock and display, which was installed.

I don't see any evidence on how it going to be different this time around. At least not yet.

For the record I want ALL SPORTS to do well, I am not anti anything. I do like football more, however or I wouldn't be here.

 

[vkj91]

Why do you equate being "realistic" with being anti basketball? Actually, it's kind of funny that a self proclaimed "realist" can't see that the school won't spend the money at this time. Are you expecting a new arena? As I said to you in another thread, just because you haven't seen the plans for the mixed facility doesn't mean they don't exist. The money needs to be raised first and unfortunately, RU alumni are cheap and have a historically pathetic history of giving back.

 

[bac2therac]

There are very few young people on the rac...we may have the oldest fanbase in the country...season ticket holders like me in our 40s are some of the youngest and there are not many of us...20 plus years...two decades of fans

Derleider..you are looking at 2006 investment but the real investment started when GS was hired and we gave him support and money to succeed. ..rhats whats needed now

 

[Piscataway]

I am a Rutgers fan, but football is my thing. I like going to the mbb games, but right now I have enough on my plate being passionate about the FB team. That said I wish all of RU excels - regardless of the arena the battle is waged.

 

[bac2therac]

There are very few young people on the rac...we may have the oldest fanbase in the country...season ticket holders like me in our 40s are some of the youngest and there are not many of us...20 plus years...two decades of fans

Derleider..you are looking at 2006 investment but the real investment started when GS was hired and we gave him support and money to succeed. ..rhats whats needed now

 

[krup]

Originally posted by applesktrack:
I just don't like watching basketball. I am apathetic, I mean I hope they do well as I do with all Rutgers sports. I just can't stand watching it.

Same for me. I never cared about the NBA, in recent years I don't even bother watching the NCAA tournament.

 

[derleider]

Originally posted by Local Shill:
derleider -
We'll have to agree to disagree on that last part. We've already lost a generation of fans essentially. Now we're working on a second generation. season ticket numbers continue to dwindle and the overwhelming majority of those that are left aren't - to put it kindly -young.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Yes and? Which part do you disagree with? Did it take 20 years for Schiano to fix FB because we waited until 2003 to upgrade the Hale Center instead of doing it in 1998? Of course note. We invested. We won. Suddenly we were outdrawing every school in the Northeast except PSU.

Same with BB. When we invest and that investment leads to winning, the fans will show up. Waiting doesn't make it worse each year - we are LONG past that point where we might have a soft turnaround. Its going to take massive investment in facilities AND coaching to turn this ship around, regardless if we do it this year or next or 2020.

From a practical perspective - recruits were 10 last time we had a winning season. Being 8 or 6 or 4 doesnt really change that - as you generally form that kind of fan connection your middle and high school years, not elementary school, and even then, lots of players end up at schools that they werent fans of as a middle/high schooler.

 

[RU85inFla]

Labels are a funny thing - and a convenient tool when desperate and trying to make a point!!!

While I would bet many people prefer football to basketball or visa versa I would surmise there are very few that are exclusively football fans or basketball fans. In fact, the thing that most of us have in common is Rutgers and with that have in interest in success in all areas of Rutgers, athletic and academic, whether we have a specific interest or not.

 

[Local Shill]

Football attendance has more then doubled in 15 years. basketball doesn't even need to go that far.
Look at the crowds in the decent seasons Bannon and Waters had.
If we even were an average Big Ten team every conference game would easily sell out. Weekend non conference games would come close and we'd get at least 6-7K for those Tuesday night November and December games.
A couple years of decent seasons and the RAC would be an even tougher ticket.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[bac2therac]

Der...its lost season ticket holders...lost fanbase..lost revenue...lost donations...lost potential increased revenue and donations...plus continued ridicule as the laughingstock of basketball

Like it or not college hooos is big...its a strong #2 sport at universities..evidence shows just about all power 5 schools care yet investing in it at RU is met with an oh well too bad

 

[derleider]

Scourge - PSU before the expansion spent the least on basketball. Maybe that didnt include the new arena - buit all that means is that a new arena isnt htat important for recruits. Coaching matters the most, as Ive been saying all along, and PSU never really paid alot for it.

Lack of investment is clearly our problem in BB. In all phases. WE pay rock bottom for coaches. We have crap facilities - the arena is old, the practice facilities are high schoolian and shared with other sports, the lockerrooms are ancient, so the coach (who is already basically going to be at a disadvantage simply by being who he is compared to toehr coaches in the conference) cant even sell that experience.

We need to invest. Its just that Barchi and the school in general are under alot of political pressure. Borrowing money for a non-revenue generating sports complex, when the school is already racked with debt (regular construction debt and UMDNJ merger related) and getting less in operating funds every year is just not going to fly. It would be a hard sell at any school - its espeically hard at RU given the states bad relationship with the school.

So if basketball wants its facilities - it will have to wait for Big Ten revenues to roll in, or it will have to raise that money itself from donors. The school simply isnt going to give money away to athletics on the hope that ten years from now the investments will pay off enough to raise SAT scores by a half a percent.

 

[OntheBanks]

Just wondering. Where is Nuts? I was off the board last week due to some surgery and I came back to this
Politi/Barchi debate in a number of threads. I have not seen Nuts participate in any of the debate. Why?
Myself, I'm a non-alum 35+ year season ticket holder for football and basketball and want both to succeed, as well as all other Rutgers sports.
In the past I've seen Nuts explain numerous times that Julie is working on indoor practice facilities for both football & basketball in the stadium area with office facilities for all the Olympic sports. So as far as I know the basketball practice facility will not be
built as a stand-alone project. Since its been brought up on this board and in other media that Julie had a large hand in
the building of the Yum Center in Louisville I would put some faith in her to get this project planed and completed.

 

[RU85inFla]

Nuts got castrated by the Mods.

This post was edited on 3/4 12:56 PM by RU85inFla

 

[Local Shill]

I hope it's just a hiatus for Nuts and that he'll return at some point.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[famousbill19]

Originally posted by krup:

Originally posted by applesktrack:
I just don't like watching basketball. I am apathetic, I mean I hope they do well as I do with all Rutgers sports. I just can't stand watching it.

Same for me. I never cared about the NBA, in recent years I don't even bother watching the NCAA tournament.

+2. I simply dislike the game.

 

[derleider]

Originally posted by bac2therac:
Der...its lost season ticket holders...lost fanbase..lost revenue...lost donations...lost potential increased revenue and donations...plus continued ridicule as the laughingstock of basketball

Like it or not college hooos is big...its a strong #2 sport at universities..evidence shows just about all power 5 schools care yet investing in it at RU is met with an oh well too bad

None of those things make it HARDER to turn it around once we decide to invest. Those things are valid reasons to invest at some point, now or in the future. But we are along ast the point where less of those things really matters. WE are already a luaghing stock. We are already getting so little revenue that it wont turn around until AFTER we invest. Donations will need a strong sales job now or a year from now or five. Fan base will come back after we win.

Im just tired of the argument that if we wait a year or two or five its that much harder to turn it around. Its not. It took FB four years of investment to turn it around after decades of lack of investment. I would expect the same in BB. From the time we decide to hire a real coach and build the new facility, within five years we would be a competitive team again - NIT or NCAA.

 

[derleider]

Originally posted by bac2therac:
Der...its lost season ticket holders...lost fanbase..lost revenue...lost donations...lost potential increased revenue and donations...plus continued ridicule as the laughingstock of basketball

Like it or not college hooos is big...its a strong #2 sport at universities..evidence shows just about all power 5 schools care yet investing in it at RU is met with an oh well too bad

None of those things make it HARDER to turn it around once we decide to invest. Those things are valid reasons to invest at some point, now or in the future. But we are along ast the point where less of those things really matters. WE are already a luaghing stock. We are already getting so little revenue that it wont turn around until AFTER we invest. Donations will need a strong sales job now or a year from now or five. Fan base will come back after we win.

Im just tired of the argument that if we wait a year or two or five its that much harder to turn it around. Its not. It took FB four years of investment to turn it around after decades of lack of investment. I would expect the same in BB. From the time we decide to hire a real coach and build the new facility, within five years we would be a competitive team again - NIT or NCAA.

 

[Purple-Ed]

Originally posted by famousbill19:

Originally posted by krup:

Originally posted by applesktrack:
I just don't like watching basketball. I am apathetic, I mean I hope they do well as I do with all Rutgers sports. I just can't stand watching it.

Same for me. I never cared about the NBA, in recent years I don't even bother watching the NCAA tournament.

+2. I simply dislike the game.

+3

 

[sherrane]

"I can only surmise you either wanted nothing to do with RU football from
about 1996-2002..."

Not at all.

"...or have chosen to forget how unbelievably wretched this
program was."

I have tried REALLY HARD to forget Terry Shea without any luck. Shea made Graber look like Vince Lombardi. The program was really good under Burns. Its a real shame he didn't have the support. If he did, RU may have been offered a B1G spot at (or before) the time Penn State joined the conference.

"How else to explain the dismissive attitude toward the
only other program that has any chance to be relevant with the
population at large?"

Because basketball sucks. It is a sport with no defense. I'd like to see the basketball teams make the final four most years, but I wouldn't waste a single second watching any of the games. Basketball sucks. Which basketball league is better, the B1G, Big East, or American? It doesn't matter because basketball sucks. Why take pride in being the best at sucking? Why be disappointed because we suck at sucking? All you need to know is that basketball sucks and is therefore irrelevant.

 

[RU205]

I like football more than basketball. Also, with my job, wife and kids I have limited time and money. I would rather spend that time and money on football.

 

[bac2therac]

Then why invest at all derleider...there really is no need to

 

[RUJMM78]

Somebody along the way decided that Rutgers should participate in big time athletics.The decision to move forward failed to understand that college athletics is now big business in the power conferences.As such schools must invest in coaches salaries and facilities in order to have winning teams that will produce a return on investment.The only reason the football stadium expansion occurred was through Mulcahy and Schiano pulling strings that no longer exist.

Rutgers is now in a position where they joined the B1G with a promise of financial rewards down the road.We now find out 2022 is the earliest that full funding will occur and by that time nobody knows what will be the priorities for those funds.In the interim most of the Rutgers teams must compete with scarce resources and the won/loss records will be adversely affected.

 

[JERZEE73]

For me there are several factors.
I had GREAT season tickets for a ## of years. After awhile when the losing became monotonous I made a financial decision. Kept my FB tickets, which are also excellent, & gave up on my BB tickets. FB even prior to Schiano still had an attraction. Was only paying for 6 games a year & enjoyed the tailgating just as much. BB you have to pay for about 16 games & many of those are lousy games. No tailgating either.
Believe me, it was great when we would knock off a good team, but that became too infrequent for me, then where was the enjoyment factor?

 

[RUskoolie]

The problem with waiting 5 years is that it is a big middle finger to people who continue to donate money and go. Why bother if the school isn't going to attempt to really invest in the program?

Furthermore, interest rates are at MULTI-generational lows. Not your parents, your grandparents rates. In 2021 are we building this place with all cash and no loan? I doubt it. So we're taking out a loan regardless. You're telling me we can't start the building sooner and borrow against our own income that we will generate from TV? I don't see why we can't. I don't think we need a 30 million dollar facility, I think Julie's idea is great but everyone is out of their mind if they think she is going to raise that money ($80m) privately. So basically, if you want to wait 6 years to care about hoops then why should people spend their hard earned money and more importantly waste their time supporting a product that the school doesn't care about?

 

[MozRU]

Originally posted by Purple-Ed:

Originally posted by famousbill19:

Originally posted by krup:

Originally posted by applesktrack:
I just don't like watching basketball. I am apathetic, I mean I hope they do well as I do with all Rutgers sports. I just can't stand watching it.

Same for me. I never cared about the NBA, in recent years I don't even bother watching the NCAA tournament.

+2. I simply dislike the game.

+3

+4 - I don't like the game. But good luck trying to get it going.

This post was edited on 3/4 1:33 PM by MozRU

 

[Local Shill]

Wow. This was an eye opener. Sure, I much prefer football and basketball to say, field hockey and lacrosse. But I wouldn't go so far as to bash other sports. Thanks for the insights.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[jmc11201]

For me, I am a football fan first...so a preference to Rutgers football vs. basketball.

Second, I didn't attend Rutgers and went to a school with Division 1 basketball, but no football, so minimal conflicts rooting for Rutgers football.

Third, Rutgers sports to me, is in some ways like following the Giants or Mets in the sense that I am a fan of the team. The recruiting aspect and local aspect of the kids on the team makes it more enjoyable than professional sports, but I am a fan of the team more than the university.

Lastly, all else equal, I would prefer to see Rutgers basketball be good, but I am not nearly as passionate about that as football.

 

[OntheBanks]

Just wondering. Where is Nuts? I was off the board last week due to some surgery and I came back to this
Politi/Barchi debate in a number of threads. I have not seen Nuts participate in any of the debate. Why?
Myself, I'm a non-alum 35+ year season ticket holder for football and basketball and want both to succeed, as well as all other Rutgers sports.
In the past I've seen Nuts explain numerous times that Julie is working on indoor practice facilities for both football & basketball in the stadium area with office facilities for all the Olympic sports. So as far as I know the basketball practice facility will not be
built as a stand-alone project. Since its been brought up on this board and in other media that Julie had a large hand in
the building of the Yum Center in Louisville I would put some faith in her to get this project planed and completed.

 

[PaKnight]

Originally posted by OntheBanks:
Just wondering. Where is Nuts? I was off the board last week due to some surgery and I came back to this
Politi/Barchi debate in a number of threads. I have not seen Nuts participate in any of the debate. Why?
Myself, I'm a non-alum 35+ year season ticket holder for football and basketball and want both to succeed, as well as all other Rutgers sports.
In the past I've seen Nuts explain numerous times that Julie is working on indoor practice facilities for both football & basketball in the stadium area with office facilities for all the Olympic sports. So as far as I know the basketball practice facility will not be
built as a stand-alone project. Since its been brought up on this board and in other media that Julie had a large hand in
the building of the Yum Center in Louisville I would put some faith in her to get this project planed and completed.

Looks like he got a time-out.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

Originally posted by Local Shill:
Wow. This was an eye opener. Sure, I much prefer football and basketball to say, field hockey and lacrosse. But I wouldn't go so far as to bash other sports. Thanks for the insights.

Posted from Rivals Mobile

Well when you have a sport that had perahsp two positive blips on the heart meter since the very early 80's ( the NIT run and the last NCAA) there is almost zero positive from the program in 33 years...generation and a half seen nothing..invisible to them.

I got hooked on both sports in middle school and attended MANY amazing RU basketball games when that was the face of the School and State.

The harm done to this program is like no other...self imposed death penalty.

 

[RUich]

Although I will watch a game from time to time, I really am not all that enamored with the game. I grew up in a small town that excelled in BB when I was in HS but still liked football more. I never really played it so that plays a big part too. The fact that this program is and has been lousy for decades just makes it a joke for many. I think throwing money at it will not do much. The entire program has been unstable for so long, how can any kid with real talent take it seriously? The fact that we have pretty much had a top womens program for years and they still play to empty seats may be telling about support for a winning mens program. I know many will dispute this statement, but many of the other top womens programs have great followings.

 

[Local Shill]

Appreciate your thoughts but your statements about support for a decent men's hoops team are wildly inaccurate, Rich.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[PaKnight]

Originally posted by RUich:
Although I will watch a game from time to time, I really am not all that enamored with the game. I grew up in a small town that excelled in BB when I was in HS but still liked football more. I never really played it so that plays a big part too. The fact that this program is and has been lousy for decades just makes it a joke for many. I think throwing money at it will not do much. The entire program has been unstable for so long, how can any kid with real talent take it seriously? The fact that we have pretty much had a top womens program for years and they still play to empty seats may be telling about support for a winning mens program. I know many will dispute this statement, but many of the other top womens programs have great followings.

We have not put enough money into the MBB program. While it is true that simply throwing money at a problem may not solve it, we have not invested at an appropriate level for decades. If you have the right coach and top notch facilities you will get kids to take the program seriously.

If we had a strong men's team, we would draw well.

 

[RU0517581]

Compare football highlights after a day of games to a day of basketball highlights and there's no comparison. It doesn't take too many three pointers and dunks to convey a sense of monotony. Its too easy to just watch the last five minutes of games. There are also the stale theatrics of coaches flipping their ties and barking at the floor - Dick Vitale spewing into the air with his eyes rolling around etc. I try to watch playoffs but even that's hard. I'm not big on indoor sports in general.