'Winning is losing ' part 2

[derleider]

And I say again what I said in 2013 on this topic...

If you want Rutgers to fail in anything on or off the field, you still might be considered a fan by some (not me) but you are certainly no Loyal Son/Daughter.

Not true at all. The real issue is - this isnt teh NFL, where losing alot can get you a definite reward.

The issue is - losing MIGHT Not get Flood fired (although if he loses 2 or all three I think it will). And if it does, we might not have money to make anything more than a lateral move anyway.

In other words - you might just be rooting for RU to lock itself into a five year contract with the next Flood (for more money - even low end MAC HCs and P5 coordinators are going to ask for more than Flood) AND have to pay Flood his contract.

If I knew we would go out and spend $3+ million on an HC, and a comparable amount on staff IF Flood lost 2 of the next 3, then I would root for it, and any RU fan would have to seriously consider the idea. There would be a fairly high likliehood of upside, and the downside is the team doesnt make a lousy bowl against a no name opponent.

But there is no certainty. So I will root for us to win all three. Hope that it propels Flood towards his best class ever, and that he somehow turns it around with more experienced players next year.

 

[derleider]

And the blowout at Penn State vs close loss
And the blowout at Michigan vs close win
And the last second win at Indiana vs near blowout

But yes, if you look at our MEAC cupcake & beat downs by Wisconsin & Ohio State, this year is very similar to last year.

But hey, we kept MSU closer. Let's give that man $1.6 mm next year.

At this time last season (after going through the meat grinder) we were ranked in the mid-60s in the Massey composite. Now we are in the mid-80s. So this year is definitelyt worse than last year. But the thing is - everyone should have known that it would be - even before the arrests.

 

[greenknight]

The real funny thing is all the people that want Tressel who is the ultimate CHEATER who has cheated at every level 100× worse but these same people want to get rid of Flood because he sent an email and met a professor and cheated. This board has become a disgrace

 

[Scarlet4ever]

The real funny thing is all the people that want Tressel who is the ultimate CHEATER who has cheated at every level 100× worse but these same people want to get rid of Flood because he sent an email and met a professor and cheated. This board has become a disgrace

I want Flood gone because I don't think he gets good enough results. I think the email thing is trivial. No other school in the country would have made such a big deal over it.

 

[lighty]

At this time last season (after going through the meat grinder) we were ranked in the mid-60s in the Massey composite. Now we are in the mid-80s. So this year is definitelyt worse than last year. But the thing is - everyone should have known that it would be - even before the arrests.

I can see your point. There is something to be said for expecting slightly better results in the second year of conference play though. Obviously, we lost some experienced players, but that is going to happen each year. IMO, we did not have nearly the right plan of attack for this year. Flood played to keep games close and failed miserably at doing so.

 

[PaKnight]

And the blowout at Penn State vs close loss
And the blowout at Michigan vs close win
And the last second win at Indiana vs near blowout

But yes, if you look at our MEAC cupcake & beat downs by Wisconsin & Ohio State, this year is very similar to last year.

But hey, we kept MSU closer. Let's give that man $1.6 mm next year.

Who said he should be back?

 

[NotInRHouse]

Would never root for RU to lose.

But I have become so emotionally detached from what this program has devolved into under Flood, that if we lost the next 3, particularly knowing the likely result with the current HC....I would not be mad.

I'm fully expecting to lose out, not that I want to, but this team is the worst I have seen since I was a freshman at RU.

 

[SanFranRutgers]

Love the "I think there's a problem here, but the people whose jobs depend on this stuff are going to be bamboozled by a 6-6 record and are incapable of judging the program by anything other than its won-loss percentage" sentiment.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Love the "I think there's a problem here, but the people whose jobs depend on this stuff are going to be bamboozled by a 6-6 record and are incapable of judging the program by anything other than its won-loss percentage" sentiment.

Has this admin ever showed otherwise?

They were ready to keep FHJ and Mike Rice barring scandal...and Flood managed to survive emailgate already...

 

[derleider]

Love the "I think there's a problem here, but the people whose jobs depend on this stuff are going to be bamboozled by a 6-6 record and are incapable of judging the program by anything other than its won-loss percentage" sentiment.

Its not that they are going to be bamboozled, its that their jobs dont depend on it. The people who employee Herman arent going to fire her if she doesnt fire Flood (in fact, it seems like its the other way around - shes more eager to see him go than they are to let him go). Certainly Barchi is in no danger of that, nor is the BoG.

They have other considerations. A 6-6 record, achieved without beating a winning team is no indication of anything other than future mediocrity or worse (at least when combined with the now par for the course subpar recruiting efforts - we are now ranked 44 and probably will get worse as some recruits peel off), but would give the powers that be an excuse to save money in the immediate future by keeping him.

 

[derleider]

Would never root for RU to lose.

But I have become so emotionally detached from what this program has devolved into under Flood, that if we lost the next 3, particularly knowing the likely result with the current HC....I would not be mad.

I'm fully expecting to lose out, not that I want to, but this team is the worst I have seen since I was a freshman at RU.

Its not even the worst since you graduated.

 

[SanFranRutgers]

Its not that they are going to be bamboozled, its that their jobs dont depend on it. The people who employee Herman arent going to fire her if she doesnt fire Flood (in fact, it seems like its the other way around - shes more eager to see him go than they are to let him go). Certainly Barchi is in no danger of that, nor is the BoG.

They have other considerations. A 6-6 record, achieved without beating a winning team is no indication of anything other than future mediocrity or worse (at least when combined with the now par for the course subpar recruiting efforts - we are now ranked 44 and probably will get worse as some recruits peel off), but would give the powers that be an excuse to save money in the immediate future by keeping him.

Bingo.

 

[wheezer]

"I'm rooting for 3 wins and a bowl win. If we beat Nebraska, we've got a shot."

This may happen

------------
we can hope, at least some of us

 

[LotusAggressor]

Friedgen made all of those throws for Nova. I am sure he helped him with things, but let's not get carried away with the "saved" crap. That's laughable.

Nova learned more from Friedgen than he learned from the previous 3 OCs combined.

 

[Knight Shift]

Nova learned more from Friedgen than he learned from the previous 3 OCs combined.

Probably correct, but Nova made the plays. He was not a puppet with Fridge as the puppet master. People love to crap on Nova but never want to praise him. So now, let's just say Nova owes it all to Friedgen, including the beautiful TD throw to Tsimis (sp?) in the Michigan game.

 

[mikemarc1]

Can't we root for winning out AND a coaching change?

I don't want Flood back, yet I want a bowl game. The administration should realize he has to go despite the record.

 

[RUsSKii]

Can't we root for winning out AND a coaching change?

I don't want Flood back, yet I want a bowl game. The administration should realize he has to go despite the record.

I just about completely agree with this. The exception being that a 5-7 Rutgers team definitely would not deserve a bowl game, and I don't really support the notion 6-6 teams playing in bowl games since they can still end up with losing seasons.

 

[patk89]

Its not even the worst since you graduated.

I would say that this year's team is the worst going back to 2004 with the only exception being 2010 (especially post-EL injury). Most of the RU teams over the last decade would soundly beat this year's squad, most by double digits. We got invited to the B1G, our conference situation became stable overnight, our exposure increased, yet our recruiting diminished. We could have a very able head coach but he would still not win because our talent level, instead of improving, is regressing. Our only difference maker players when measured on the B1G standard are Longa and Carroo (who certainly would not be at RU if Flood had been the coach much earlier). At this point, we will be worse next year than this year, no matter who the coach is.

 

[MADHAT1]

There's no guarantee that the administration will can Flood if he goes 4-8 or 5-7. So I don't understand this premise of wanting to lose in the least bit!

Loser's mentality could be the reason
I want RU to win out, but Flood to be out.

Rooting for RU to lose knowing that they will replace Flood with a on the cheap hire, makes wanting RU to lose so Flood goes look ridiculous.
By winning Rutgers doesn't lose nothing, because Rutgers isn't going to pay what it takes to bring a winner to Rutgers if it loses it's last 3 games.

Also can't bring myself to want to see RU lose because of the RU players doing their best to win, even with an over-matched HC and staff making winning harder for them.

 

[derleider]

I would say that this year's team is the worst going back to 2004 with the only exception being 2010 (especially post-EL injury). Most of the RU teams over the last decade would soundly beat this year's squad, most by double digits. We got invited to the B1G, our conference situation became stable overnight, our exposure increased, yet our recruiting diminished. We could have a very able head coach but he would still not win because our talent level, instead of improving, is regressing. Our only difference maker players when measured on the B1G standard are Longa and Carroo (who certainly would not be at RU if Flood had been the coach much earlier). At this point, we will be worse next year than this year, no matter who the coach is.

You have a short memory. 2013 was worse. The beat downs were coming to mid-level teams and the close games were coming to against Kansas level teams instead of marginal bowl teams like Indiana. We lost to UConn who was ranked around 100 (i.e. worse than the team that we are fielding now.)

Nothing Im saying is a reason to keep Flood. I would have fired him after 2013. I would fire him now unless our money options for whatever reasons are just alot better next year (and I cant imagine that they are).

The thing about rotting for winning out and getting a new coach is - this administration (and realistically no RU administration ,and in fact quite a few administrations elsewhere) arent going to fire a coach that has won his last 3 and has a shot at a winning season (3 out of 4). Not in order to go out and hire Al Golden or some MAC coach who has had one or two good years and has no pull in the area. Its just not realistic to root for.

So if you want Flood gone - you have to root for losing (and he still might not even be gone.)

 

[MoobyCow]

You have a short memory. 2013 was worse. The beat downs were coming to mid-level teams and the close games were coming to against Kansas level teams instead of marginal bowl teams like Indiana. We lost to UConn who was ranked around 100 (i.e. worse than the team that we are fielding now.)

Nothing Im saying is a reason to keep Flood. I would have fired him after 2013. I would fire him now unless our money options for whatever reasons are just alot better next year (and I cant imagine that they are).

The thing about rotting for winning out and getting a new coach is - this administration (and realistically no RU administration ,and in fact quite a few administrations elsewhere) arent going to fire a coach that has won his last 3 and has a shot at a winning season (3 out of 4). Not in order to go out and hire Al Golden or some MAC coach who has had one or two good years and has no pull in the area. Its just not realistic to root for.

So if you want Flood gone - you have to root for losing (and he still might not even be gone.)

That team was awful. This team has a chance to get there if they don't rally, but so far it hasn't been as bad.

 

[patk89]

You have a short memory. 2013 was worse. The beat downs were coming to mid-level teams and the close games were coming to against Kansas level teams instead of marginal bowl teams like Indiana. We lost to UConn who was ranked around 100 (i.e. worse than the team that we are fielding now.)

Nothing Im saying is a reason to keep Flood. I would have fired him after 2013. I would fire him now unless our money options for whatever reasons are just alot better next year (and I cant imagine that they are).

The thing about rotting for winning out and getting a new coach is - this administration (and realistically no RU administration ,and in fact quite a few administrations elsewhere) arent going to fire a coach that has won his last 3 and has a shot at a winning season (3 out of 4). Not in order to go out and hire Al Golden or some MAC coach who has had one or two good years and has no pull in the area. Its just not realistic to root for.

So if you want Flood gone - you have to root for losing (and he still might not even be gone.)

I partially put the 6-6 2013 season (6-7 including bowl loss) out of my mind but I remember a competitive bowl game against a decent Kelly coached ND team in which we could have won. I'd say our defensive backs were equally incompetent in those 2 years, teams like UCF, Houston, and SMU had receivers running free in the secondary. But UCF (Bortles) was a good team, not Ohio State good but they beat Penn State and beat Baylor in a huge upset in the bowl game that year as well as #8 Louisville (Bridgewater). If your point is that RU 2015 would crush RU 2013, I don't agree. I'd put RU 2015 as slightly better than RU 2013 on a neutral field but by less than a td. RU 2013 had the better QB in a junior Nova than a RS frosh Laviano (who I still think can win in the B1G). If we don't beat Army, I'll flip flop and say 2013 was a better team. We are highly unlikely to beat Nebraska and will be dogs to a weak Maryland team on our home field.

 

[rufeelinit]

I think if Rutgers makes a bowl game which is highly unlikely there will be move to keep flood. If that would happen then winning would certainly be losing.

 

[MADHAT1]

I think if Rutgers makes a bowl game which is highly unlikely there will be move to keep flood. If that would happen then winning would certainly be losing.

What makes you think Flood will be bought out if RU loses the next three.
I feel an excuse will be made for the way the team played this year as a reason to keep him.
Rutgers isn't going to buy Flood out and hire a quality HC with the money this administration is willing to give the athletic department to improve RU FB.

 

[rufeelinit]

I think the downside of bring him back s compelling enough that the have to fire him unless he makes a bowl. To be clear I want him out either way but I could see a scenario particularly if he wins the next 3 that they prop him up for another year. I think we get blown out again tomorrow.

 

[78CollegeAve]

Wow, glad to know that the OP is certain that Julie would have found a killer replacement HC with a top notch staff and a recruiter with sizzle. I'm not happy and would like Flood to be reassigned to teach Dance Appreciation at Mason Gross for the next couple of years.

But ... how'd RU do with the next hire when we all wanted Graber to be canned? I'm concerned that between Barchi and his budget, RU will screw the pooch with a Charlie Weis kind of hire and dig a deeper hole than Flood's 4-8 and 5-7 future.

 

[SanFranRutgers]

I think if Rutgers makes a bowl game which is highly unlikely there will be move to keep flood. If that would happen then winning would certainly be losing.

I don't think anybody -- including the Trotskys on the Rutgers Administration -- consider making a bowl game to be much of an accomplishment, and certainly not one on which Flood's continued tenure hangs.

 

[vascosg]

The comment and the gif really made me laugh. Well done.

 

[rufeelinit]

I don't think anybody -- including the Trotskys on the Rutgers Administration -- consider making a bowl game to be much of an accomplishment, and certainly not one on which Flood's continued tenure hangs.

I hope your right. If that group is as concerned about funding as we have been lead to believe then it becomes about spinning the decision to keep him because we were once again bowl eligible. My scenario is that if he wins the next 3, not 2 out of 3 but continues with a chance at a winning record then maybe Barchi likes keeping Flood more so than a buyout and investment in a replacement. Now if there are other considerations with regard to academics or another shoe to drop about the shenanigans earlier this year then maybe it does not matter. He just needs to go.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I just about completely agree with this. The exception being that a 5-7 Rutgers team definitely would not deserve a bowl game, and I don't really support the notion 6-6 teams playing in bowl games since they can still end up with losing seasons.

I want to agree with this....but I just do not trust this admin, specifically Barchi, to see through the 6-6 record, whose best win would be either Indiana or the worst Nebraska team in a decade. I think the only language this admin knows is 10k showing up for a Maryland blowout.

That is why I wanted Flood canned this week or back in September, you let Norries take the reign, it is a nice story while the new guy is located.

 

[RUsSKii]

I want to agree with this....but I just do not trust this admin, specifically Barchi, to see through the 6-6 record, whose best win would be either Indiana or the worst Nebraska team in a decade. I think the only language this admin knows is 10k showing up for a Maryland blowout.

That is why I wanted Flood canned this week or back in September, you let Norries take the reign, it is a nice story while the new guy is located.

I wanted the same thing to occur, but unfortunately it did not. And assuming no more groundbreaking news, I dont think that anything will change until after the season. And if there are no major changes then, I fear it will be open season with this fanbase..

 

[PaKnight]

I want to agree with this....but I just do not trust this admin, specifically Barchi, to see through the 6-6 record, whose best win would be either Indiana or the worst Nebraska team in a decade. I think the only language this admin knows is 10k showing up for a Maryland blowout.

That is why I wanted Flood canned this week or back in September, you let Norries take the reign, it is a nice story while the new guy is located.

What would have gained by firing Flood this week?

 

[NotInRHouse]

What would have gained by firing Flood this week?

A message that RU takes the program seriously and is not actually thinking of retaining Flood for an empty six wins. A head start on a search that would let a new coach start recruiting.

 

[PaKnight]

A message that RU takes the program seriously and is not actually thinking of retaining Flood for an empty six wins. A head start on a search that would let a new coach start recruiting.

Not going to hire someone until after the season is over. The new coach is not going. to get a head start by making a change now. In the meantime even without making a change this week behind the scene inquiries can happen.

So it would make some people feel better, but not do anything to advance the program.

 

[e5fdny]

And I say again what I said in 2013 on this topic...

If you want Rutgers to fail in anything on or off the field, you still might be considered a fan by some (not me) but you are certainly no Loyal Son/Daughter.

Not true at all.

In my book, the bolded above is 100% true.