Would you be ok with a replacement HC from the MAC or sun belt?

[PaKnight]

Everybody wins at Toledo though. Scary to commit as can't tell if really good or not. Think you have to compare to predecessors. What else is there?

Clearly you just don't hire based on strictly wins and losses without digging deeper. I was just looking at some of the candidates discussed at a high level.

If you look at the last three Toledo coaches, Pinkel went directly to Mizzu and did very well, Amstulz did not coach after leaving, and Beckman had Illni improving going from 2 to 4 to 6 wins before being fired over the abuse allegations. Does Toledo have built in advantages over other MAC schools, or is it just they have made good coaching hires.

 

[BuggsyRU]

The only non MAC guys ive heard this board float are Schiano (meh) and Golden (meh). I sure hope our donors are smart enough to either: 1-know that a name doesnt guarantee success 2-trust JH to do her job. And if they cant trust her to make the best hire for the program then bad by by her in convincing them and shame on them for not trusting her.

Don't forget Rhule. Non Mac name bantered about. He's still my number one....and if he leaves after two or three years to go to Penn State, I'm fine with that because the only way PSU is still interested in Rhule after two or three years On The Banks, is if we are doing well.

I can live with that.

1.) Rhule
2.) Babers
3.) Campbell

 

[rutgersguy1]

We largely agree on all of this, which makes sense, because I've gotten a good portion of my information on the subject from your posts. Babers is my top choice of the MAC candidates. I just like Brohm more than Fleck if you need to go with a really up and comer type of candidate. I really hope that isn't necessary though.

Well I'm glad to inform you and hopefully others. It's fun for me to look this kind of stuff up and be "pretend AD" so I don't mind. The only way to try and have some intelligent discussion is to be informed about the topic rather than just throwing out names without delving deeper. Anyone can have any opinion they like but at least try and be informed about the topic especially when others are doing it for you. I like it when others bring info on stuff beyond surface this guys sucks this guys good etc.. The more info you have the more informed opinion you can make right.

BTW meant to say Brohm's defenses at Western Kentucky haven't been good his 2 years there. Ranked in the 90s this year I think and in the 120s last year. So some improvement but still not great. That's the biggest thing with any of these offensive coaches can they deliver a mediocre defense and who is most likely to do it. That's why I like Meacham, mainly it's the association with Patterson and seeing what Fuente did at Memphis with Odom. Fuente's defense has dropped off a cliff this year with the loss of Odom to Mizzou and 13 starters/backups but at least for a time it was good. So it's not a neglected part of the team. Hopefully Meacham would be the same, but really it's just reading tea leaves, who really knows for sure how he'd handle the defense.

As to Fleck, I don't really like him at all and isn't anywhere near the top of my list.

 

[rutgersguy1]

What is it with this "established" "proven P5" head coach crap?

You realize we aren't an established program, right? This isn't Michigan. Nobody is jumping from another Power 5 school to Rutgers. Florida hired their coach from Coloroda State for christ sake.

I am praying the donors and decision makers are living in reality this time around and have full use of their brains. We could have had Tom Hermann in 2013, but this ridiculous "proven P5" HC crap stopped it.

Babers and Campbell will be semi-realistic options, there may be a line of schools with more money in front of us to get to either of them. There are coordinators that for some reason don't get much talk here like Brent Venables and DJ Durkin. Not to mention other head coaches in the AAC, C-USA, and MWC worth a look, at the least. Schiano came here with no HC experience, and managed to put together an 11 win team in a very legit, power conference Big East at the time.

Michigan, USC, Texas and the like get to pick "established" head coaches from the tree. We do not. But for that reason, we are far much more fun to follow and watch, because the right decision can build into something.

I liked Venables a lot a little while ago just in the tier below Herman a couple years ago for me. He's also known to be a good recruiter. I can't say that about Aranda who I like. He's also worked with the spread in both his stops at OU and Clemson, so you think he'd run a spread as a HC. He did a nice job at OU as DC, got pushed out for Stoops' brother, but beneficially for him has come out of Stoops' umbrella and proved himself by building up a top 5 defense at Clemson over his time there. So everything sounds great right? Unfortunately, later on reading about him on boards and blogs I see a lot of stuff about him being a hot head and quite a prick, so that worries me considering our history. That cooled me on him a lot. Without that he'd be my top choice.

DJ Durkin sounds good but the problem with him for me is he hasn't done it long enough. This is only his 3rd year as DC in total. He took over for Dan Quinn, worked under Will Muschamp at Florida and their defense was already very good. Same issue at Michigan. Credit for maintenance of that standard but unlike Venables you wonder how good he would be on his own. I think he'd likely be a decent to good recruiter though.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Could not disagree more with idea of coordinators. We are at the B1G boy table. We have to get proven winners who have proven that they have won somewhere. If we are going to gamble want it to be a gamble on someone who has already been a head coach. No more on the job training.

You've said this before but look at the schools at the big boy table who have hired coordinators. FSU Jimbo Fisher, Georgia Mark Ricth, Wisconsin Bret Bielema, TCU Gary Patterson, Utah Kyle Whittingham, Louisville Bobby Petrino the first time, Pitt Narduzzi and Paul Chrsyt, Oklahoma Bob Stoops, Florida Will Muschamp, Ok State Mike Gundy, Stanford David Shaw, Oregon Mark Helfrich, WVU Dana Holgorsen and Rich Rodriguez, Indiana Kevin Wilson, KSU Bill Snyder, Minnesota Tracy Claeys, Texas Tech Mike Leach and Kliff Kingsbury, Kentucky Mark Stoops etc..

Now are all these guys winners, of course not. The coordinator avenue has successes and failures just like the others. My point is the big boys at this level do hire from the coordinator level and I don't see a discernible difference in the success/failure rate between coordinators and mid major coaches with experience, probably even P5 too. So knowing that why would we want to narrow our scope down and reject a perfectly good pool from which to choose coaching prospects.

 

[G- RUnit]

The only non MAC guys ive heard this board float are Schiano (meh) and Golden (meh). I sure hope our donors are smart enough to either: 1-know that a name doesnt guarantee success 2-trust JH to do her job. And if they cant trust her to make the best hire for the program then bad by by her in convincing them and shame on them for not trusting her.

Moglia and Bob Davie are intriguing. Matt Ruhle? Butch Davis? I would be crucified but think Edsel and Wanny got short ends of the stick as well.

 

[scarletKNIGHT07]

Fleck vs Carey tonight
Moglia tomorrow
Fuente vs Rhule Saturday
Herman vs Diaco Saturday
Fritz vs Richt Saturday night

 

[rutgersguy1]

BTW, not completely related but rather than starting a new coaching thread I figure I'd throw it in here. This morning I read on footballscoop that Les Miles would be coaching for his job the next 2 games. I have hard time believing that myself considering 15M left on his contract and 2M for coordinators but they say not out of the question.

http://theadvocate.com/sports/lsu/14016697-128/rabalais-strong-indications-lsu-coach

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...-lsu-really-ready-to-part-ways-with-les-miles

 

[G- RUnit]

You've said this before but look at the schools at the big boy table who have hired coordinators. FSU Jimbo Fisher, Georgia Mark Ricth, Wisconsin Bret Bielema, TCU Gary Patterson, Utah Kyle Whittingham, Louisville Bobby Petrino the first time, Pitt Narduzzi and Paul Chrsyt, Oklahoma Bob Stoops, Florida Will Muschamp, Ok State Mike Gundy, Stanford David Shaw, Oregon Mark Helfrich, WVU Dana Holgorsen and Rich Rodriguez, Indiana Kevin Wilson, KSU Bill Snyder, Minnesota Tracy Claeys, Texas Tech Mike Leach and Kliff Kingsbury, Kentucky Mark Stoops etc..

Now are all these guys winners, of course not. The coordinator avenue has successes and failures just like the others. My point is the big boys at this level do hire from the coordinator level and I don't see a discernible difference in the success/failure rate between coordinators and mid major coaches with experience, probably even P5 too. So knowing that why would we want to narrow our scope down and reject a perfectly good pool from which to choose coaching prospects.

On the other hand all recent B1G hires have all been Head coaches, Urban, Harbaugh, Franklin, Riley, Beckman, Hazel, Chryst, Kill, Edsel... B1G only takes coaches that have been head coaches. Big boy table.

 

[PaKnight]

On the other hand all recent B1G hires have all been Head coaches, Urban, Harbaugh, Franklin, Riley, Beckman, Hazel, Chryst, Kill, Edsel... B1G only takes coaches that have been head coaches. Big boy table.

Beckman, Hazell and Kill were MAC coaches prior to going to the B1G.

 

[rutgersguy1]

On the other hand all recent B1G hires have all been Head coaches, Urban, Harbaugh, Franklin, Beckman, Hazel, Chryst, Kill, Edsel... B1G only takes coaches that have coached before. Big boy table.

They are no more big boy than the SEC and there are clunkers in your HC list as well including others you didn't mention. The point is how much difference is there in success failure rate? That's what we should be caring about not whether others are doing this or that. I don't see a discernible difference looking out over the college football landscape.

Also looking back over history at some B10 hires. Wisconsin hired Bielema who was a coordinator. Barry Alvarez was as well. Kirk Ferentz was never a coordinator at all. Tim Brewster at Minnesota, Paterno, Bill Obrien PSU, Nebraska Bo Pelini Tom Osborne, Indiana Kevin Wilson, Cam Cameron, Michigan Lloyd Carr Gary Moeller, Northwestern Pat Fitgerald Gary Barnett etc.. so B10 schools hire coordinators as well.

Again though who cares. The only thing to pay attention to is success/failure rates of each pool. If you can say hey this pool has a markedly better success rate looking at P5 hires across college football over the years then I'd say ok we need to go in that direction. But I don't see that so I don't see a reason to narrow the scope of a search.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Beckman, Hazell and Kill were MAC coaches prior to going to the B1G.

That's what he's saying B10 hires are previous HCs. While that may be the case recently, it's not throughout its history. My point is even if it was, who cares. The only thing to focus on his success/failure rate and is there any discernible difference between hiring a coach with previous HC experience vs. coordinator. I haven't done a study obviously but just looking at hires over the years I don't see one. If that's the case why narrow the pool of candidates.

 

[RUJMM78]

I don't think big donors will support anyone but a prior head coach with success defeating teams with winning records.That criteria probably eliminates most candidates that Rutgers can afford.The Temple head coach fits the coaching criteria but might be asking too much money.Golden is a candidate that has NJ roots and has coached against top competition but with disappointing results at Miami.I think Hermann will contact Golden.The MAC head coaches all come with concerns of fitting into the NJ recruiting environment.

 

[LevaosLectures]

We aren't hiring a MAC coach guys. I don't know who we're hiring but I know enough to know that if donors are footing the bill (and they are) they aren't paying for a name no one will recognize.

What a dumb post. Who do you think we're hiring, then? Don Shula? It will either be a head coach from a lower level or a coordinator from a P5 team. That's it.

 

[G- RUnit]

They are no more big boy than the SEC and there are clunkers in your HC list as well including others you didn't mention. The point is how much difference is there in success failure rate? That's what we should be caring about not whether others are doing this or that. I don't see a discernible difference looking out over the college football landscape.

Also looking back over history at some B10 hires. Wisconsin hired Bielema who was a coordinator. Barry Alvarez was as well. Kirk Ferentz was never a coordinator at all. Tim Brewster at Minnesota, Paterno, Bill Obrien PSU, Nebraska Bo Pelini Tom Osborne, Indiana Kevin Wilson, Cam Cameron, Michigan Lloyd Carr Gary Moeller, Northwestern Pat Fitgerald Gary Barnett etc.. so B10 schools hire coordinators as well.

Again though who cares. The only thing to pay attention to is success/failure rates of each pool. If you can say hey this pool has a markedly better success rate looking at P5 hires across college football over the years then I'd say ok we need to go in that direction. But I don't see that so I don't see a reason to narrow the scope of a search.

Who are these clunkers you speak about? We are in the B1G now! B1G hires proven winners. I guess I forgot Brady Hoke but I guess he was a proven winner at Ball State and San Diego State.

Barry Alvarez was hired in1990? Lloyd Carr in 1995? Tom Osborne 1973? Gary Moeller 1990? Gary Barnett 1992? Paterno 1946? May want to re-think.

RU shouldn't gamble on coordinators. I do want to narrow the scope and hire a coach who has won somewhere already. Like every single team in the B1G this century.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Who are these clunkers you speak about? We are in the B1G now! B1G hires proven winners. I guess I forgot Brady Hoke but I guess he was a proven winner at Ball State and San Diego State.

Barry Alvarez was hired in1990? Lloyd Carr in 1995? Tom Osborne 1973? Gary Moeller 1990? Gary Barnett 1992? Paterno 1946? May want to re-think.

RU shouldn't gamble on coordinators. I do want to narrow the scope and hire a coach who has won somewhere already. Like every single team in the B1G this century.

You said this conference doesn't hire coordinators and I'm showing you that they have, doesn't matter what might be going on in recent times but there are clunkers in the names you mention and others that you didn't that have been hired this century and had previous HC experience.

Beckman, Hazell, Edsall out of the ones you mention aren't clunkers? Hoke is another too. Ron Zook, Ron Turner, Danny Hope, Rich Rodriguez (who I still like as a coach though), John L Smith, Bill Callahan, Glen Mason, Gerry Dinardo, etc..were all coaches hired this century with previous HC experience and some with very good records at prior stops and still failed in the B10. Failures and successes can come from anywhere and looking at the college landscape there isn't much difference in success failure rates between coaches with previous HC experience and coordinators.

 

[RUforlife]

Don't forget Rhule. Non Mac name bantered about. He's still my number one....and if he leaves after two or three years to go to Penn State, I'm fine with that because the only way PSU is still interested in Rhule after two or three years On The Banks, is if we are doing well.

I can live with that.

1.) Rhule
2.) Babers
3.) Campbell

Rhule is my #1 as well. From what I understand, he is beloved by the HS coaches in Eastern PA and Southern Jersey. He has also successfully built relationships with some Northern Jersey power programs like Elizabeth and Bosco, i.e., Walker is their starting QB and Nutile will likely be their starting QB in 17. He is not starting from scratch in this area, which I think is important.

 

[OriginalKnight]

How about Terry Bowden? He went undefeated at auburn one year. Twenty years ago haha.

 

[G- RUnit]

You said this conference doesn't hire coordinators and I'm showing you that they have, doesn't matter what might be going on in recent times but there are clunkers in the names you mention and others that you didn't that have been hired this century and had previous HC experience.

Beckman, Hazell, Edsall out of the ones you mention aren't clunkers? Hoke is another too. Ron Zook, Ron Turner, Danny Hope, Rich Rodriguez (who I still like as a coach though), John L Smith, Bill Callahan, Glen Mason, Gerry Dinardo, etc..were all coaches hired this century with previous HC experience and some with very good records at prior stops and still failed in the B10. Failures and successes can come from anywhere and looking at the college landscape there isn't much difference in success failure rates between coaches with previous HC experience and coordinators.

B1G learned their lesson!!! Every recent hire has been an experienced head coach. No coordinators!!!!

BTW, Rich Rodriquez is a very good coach. Glenn Mason in retrospect is pretty darn good, i.e . see Kansas! Beckman's team is going to be bowl eligible. Edsell is a good coach who got a raw deal. He won at freakin' UConn for god's sake. Smart to hire coaches with head coaching experience!

Of course it's all a gamble, but if I am going to gamble, it is going to be a proven winner with prior head coaching experience.