Rating Players 1976 vs. 2025

[RutgersChow]

It's hard to do considering how the game has changed and how much more opportunity there is for players to develop their game today and to showcase their talents. Assuming Dylan commits and guessing what the starting team might be, here is how I would rate them. Keep in mind that I saw every single game they played in 1976 and have seen nearly every game since. Here goes:

1 - Ace Bailey - The greatest talent I've ever seen on the high school level to attend RU. Just off the charts good.
2 - Phil Sellers - Top 5 HS player and only RU player I've ever seen who could just put the team on his back and will them to win.
3 - James Bailey - Cliff would have a tough time getting a shot off against him.
4 - Dylan Harper - Would have started on the '76 team IMO, and that's saying something considering Eddie Jordan's NBA career.
5 - Mike Dabney - Another first team all-state player who I believe would have been even better back then if there were three point shot - Great defender.
6 - Cliff O - His impact on the game can't be denied, but he wouldn't have been allowed to dunk in '76. Best rebounder I've seen at RU.
7 - Eddie Jordan - His defense on the ball and steals are what made the '76 team click. Another great leader.
8 - Hollis Copeland - Unheralded, but could do a little of everything. Had a tough time here between him and Mag, but Hollis was also a good defender with a better all around game IMO.
9 - Mawat Mag
10 - Derek Simpson assuming he starts in 2024.

 

[hinson32]

It's hard to do considering how the game has changed and how much more opportunity there is for players to develop their game today and to showcase their talents. Assuming Dylan commits and guessing what the starting team might be, here is how I would rate them. Keep in mind that I saw every single game they played in 1976 and have seen nearly every game since. Here goes:

1 - Ace Bailey - The greatest talent I've ever seen on the high school level to attend RU. Just off the charts good.
2 - Phil Sellers - Top 5 HS player and only RU player I've ever seen who could just put the team on his back and will them to win.
3 - James Bailey - Cliff would have a tough time getting a shot off against him.
4 - Dylan Harper - Would have started on the '76 team IMO, and that's saying something considering Eddie Jordan's NBA career.
5 - Mike Dabney - Another first team all-state player who I believe would have been even better back then if there were three point shot - Great defender.
6 - Cliff O - His impact on the game can't be denied, but he wouldn't have been allowed to dunk in '76. Best rebounder I've seen at RU.
7 - Eddie Jordan - His defense on the ball and steals are what made the '76 team click. Another great leader.
8 - Hollis Copeland - Unheralded, but could do a little of everything. Had a tough time here between him and Mag, but Hollis was also a good defender with a better all around game IMO.
9 - Mawat Mag
10 - Derek Simpson assuming he starts in 2024.

Gavin will 100% be a starter in 2025.

 

[Knights2003]

It's hard to do considering how the game has changed and how much more opportunity there is for players to develop their game today and to showcase their talents. Assuming Dylan commits and guessing what the starting team might be, here is how I would rate them. Keep in mind that I saw every single game they played in 1976 and have seen nearly every game since. Here goes:

1 - Ace Bailey - The greatest talent I've ever seen on the high school level to attend RU. Just off the charts good.
2 - Phil Sellers - Top 5 HS player and only RU player I've ever seen who could just put the team on his back and will them to win.
3 - James Bailey - Cliff would have a tough time getting a shot off against him.
4 - Dylan Harper - Would have started on the '76 team IMO, and that's saying something considering Eddie Jordan's NBA career.
5 - Mike Dabney - Another first team all-state player who I believe would have been even better back then if there were three point shot - Great defender.
6 - Cliff O - His impact on the game can't be denied, but he wouldn't have been allowed to dunk in '76. Best rebounder I've seen at RU.
7 - Eddie Jordan - His defense on the ball and steals are what made the '76 team click. Another great leader.
8 - Hollis Copeland - Unheralded, but could do a little of everything. Had a tough time here between him and Mag, but Hollis was also a good defender with a better all around game IMO.
9 - Mawat Mag
10 - Derek Simpson assuming he starts in 2024.

Interesting topic. I have only been a fan since 1999, so I do not have any reference to the 1975 team. I found two things interesting:

Item #6 - the best rebounder I've seen at RU was Rashod Kent. I think he is better than Cliff at rebounding.
Item #10 - I think Gavin needs to be in this spot. Everything I read (and some highlights I see) are that he is going to have a really good freshman year. I'm not even convinced that Derek Simpson will be a starter on this team (A. Williams has a chance). And when Ace and Dylan (hopefully) come next year, I am fairly confident that Simpson will not be starting but think Gavin will be.

 

[Ready to Rumble]

A bit premature to rank players who haven't put on a Rutgers Jersey yet but I'll provide a couple of comments. The players from the great 1976 team all ended up playing 4 years at RU. IMO, comparing their career contributions need to be considered differently than perhaps a "One and Done" player.
I love Cliff but not sure he's better than Roy Hinson who was also a great rebounder.

 

[snowboarder]

The 76 team is tough to compare any other Rutgers team in our history
At the 5 I would def take Cliff if he is still here
Anyone else other then cliff then I would take JB
JB didn't really blossom until his sophomore year
By the end of JBS sophomore year it would be no contest , JB was just so dominant on both ends
At the 4 Copeland was very good but Ace may be the most talented player to ever play here
If we put Phil at the three ( forgetaboutit)
Gavin may become a great and I mean great but we may never have another Sellers
2 goes to Dabney, despite Dylan's potential
Dip average close to 20 a game
Dylan may eventually prove me wrong but MD for now
Eddie at the one over anyone else at the point even if you put Dylan at the 1
76 was a special team
NBA point guard
All Americans at the 2&3 ( even though Phil and Dip didnt fit the NBA game at the time)
Copeland an NBA guy at the 4 and JB a first team all American and 10 year NBA guy at the 5
just the fact that we are comparing them should get everyone excited

 

[Rutgers25]

9 - Mawat Mag
10 - Derek Simpson assuming he starts in 2024.

I mean this cant possibly be serious.

nothing against these kids. hopefully will be important parts of the team this year but to say these are top 10 all-time RU players. OMFG

Mag was obviously an important defensive piece and was starting to show some signs on offense but a LOOOOONG way to be an all-time top 10 player

and Simpson?!?!? simply baffling that hes even in this discussion (same with Mag).

again, nothing against these kids. solid players. but all-time top 10?!?!?!.

WOW

and before you ask "who would you put above them" - I could put DOZENS upon DOZENS of past RU players above them. but just in the very recent past Ron, Geo, Caleb and Myles are WAAAAAAY above those two on the all-time list

and for the third time, to be clear, I have nothing against those two. good players who hopefully will be solid contributors this year (and beyond) but putting them on this list.....just cant be serious.

I think he’s just combining the ‘76 and ‘25 rosters and ranking. It’s not of all time. With that said, he clearly forgot Gavin and we have no idea how good Somerville and Dortch will be.

 

[RedTeam1994]

I think he’s just combining the ‘76 and ‘25 rosters and ranking. It’s not of all time. With that said, he clearly forgot Gavin and we have no idea how good Somerville and Dortch will be.

thanks for clarifying.

seems I wasnt the only one who misunderstood.

thus, I deleted my comment

agree - Gavin should on the list.

 

[RutgersChow]

Gavin will 100% be a starter in 2025.

Sorry, forgot about him. It was late.

 

[Loyal_2RU]

It's hard to do considering how the game has changed and how much more opportunity there is for players to develop their game today and to showcase their talents. Assuming Dylan commits and guessing what the starting team might be, here is how I would rate them. Keep in mind that I saw every single game they played in 1976 and have seen nearly every game since. Here goes:

1 - Ace Bailey - The greatest talent I've ever seen on the high school level to attend RU. Just off the charts good.
2 - Phil Sellers - Top 5 HS player and only RU player I've ever seen who could just put the team on his back and will them to win.
3 - James Bailey - Cliff would have a tough time getting a shot off against him.
4 - Dylan Harper - Would have started on the '76 team IMO, and that's saying something considering Eddie Jordan's NBA career.
5 - Mike Dabney - Another first team all-state player who I believe would have been even better back then if there were three point shot - Great defender.
6 - Cliff O - His impact on the game can't be denied, but he wouldn't have been allowed to dunk in '76. Best rebounder I've seen at RU.
7 - Eddie Jordan - His defense on the ball and steals are what made the '76 team click. Another great leader.
8 - Hollis Copeland - Unheralded, but could do a little of everything. Had a tough time here between him and Mag, but Hollis was also a good defender with a better all around game IMO.
9 - Mawat Mag
10 - Derek Simpson assuming he starts in 2024.

Just a bit of recency bias here.
Kelvin Troy and Steve Worthy, might disagree.

Phil is#1 until dethroned.

Mawot and Derek not close to the list

 

[80RU]

Interesting post. What I would really take issue with is the notion that Hollis was “unheralded.“ He was highly coveted as a recruit, the only player that Young ever promised would start as a freshman. He was highly regarded as a player throughout. I love Mag — but choosing between him and Copeland is not a close call.

 

[rubaseball78]

It's hard to do considering how the game has changed and how much more opportunity there is for players to develop their game today and to showcase their talents. Assuming Dylan commits and guessing what the starting team might be, here is how I would rate them. Keep in mind that I saw every single game they played in 1976 and have seen nearly every game since. Here goes:

1 - Ace Bailey - The greatest talent I've ever seen on the high school level to attend RU. Just off the charts good.
2 - Phil Sellers - Top 5 HS player and only RU player I've ever seen who could just put the team on his back and will them to win.
3 - James Bailey - Cliff would have a tough time getting a shot off against him.
4 - Dylan Harper - Would have started on the '76 team IMO, and that's saying something considering Eddie Jordan's NBA career.
5 - Mike Dabney - Another first team all-state player who I believe would have been even better back then if there were three point shot - Great defender.
6 - Cliff O - His impact on the game can't be denied, but he wouldn't have been allowed to dunk in '76. Best rebounder I've seen at RU.
7 - Eddie Jordan - His defense on the ball and steals are what made the '76 team click. Another great leader.
8 - Hollis Copeland - Unheralded, but could do a little of everything. Had a tough time here between him and Mag, but Hollis was also a good defender with a better all around game IMO.
9 - Mawat Mag
10 - Derek Simpson assuming he starts in 2024.

Myles was a much better rebounder than Cliff.

 

[hinson32]

Myles was a much better rebounder than Cliff.

How so? They both averaged 7.5 rebounds during their time at RU.

 

[wheezer]

The 76 team is tough to compare any other Rutgers team in our history
At the 5 I would def take Cliff if he is still here
Anyone else other then cliff then I would take JB
JB didn't really blossom until his sophomore year
By the end of JBS sophomore year it would be no contest , JB was just so dominant on both ends
At the 4 Copeland was very good but Ace may be the most talented player to ever play here
If we put Phil at the three ( forgetaboutit)
Gavin may become a great and I mean great but we may never have another Sellers
2 goes to Dabney, despite Dylan's potential
Dip average close to 20 a game
Dylan may eventually prove me wrong but MD for now
Eddie at the one over anyone else at the point even if you put Dylan at the 1
76 was a special team
NBA point guard
All Americans at the 2&3 ( even though Phil and Dip didnt fit the NBA game at the time)
Copeland an NBA guy at the 4 and JB a first team all American and 10 year NBA guy at the 5
just the fact that we are comparing them should get everyone excited

James Bailey was a better offensive player than Cliff
I put jammin James on top there

 

[Caliknight]

Athletes are bigger stronger faster now than 40 years ago. Our team last year would have won the national championship in 1976.

 

[hinson32]

James Bailey was a better offensive player than Cliff
I put jammin James on top there

Was he in 1976? I know he was in 78 and 79. He averaged 8 PG in 1976.

 

[rubaseball78]

Was he in 1976? I know he was in 78 and 79. He averaged 8 PG in 1976.

Yes, he was on the 75/76 team. Mike Palko started the first 5 games of the year at center then Bailey started rest of year.

 

[hinson32]

Yes, he was on the 75/76 team. Mike Palko started the first 5 games of the year at center then Bailey started rest of year.

I know that, but my question was if Bailey was better than Cliff offensively in 1976? He only averaged 8 a game.

 

[RutgersChow]

Athletes are bigger stronger faster now than 40 years ago. Our team last year would have won the national championship in 1976.

No chance of that. Indiana won the national championship and went undefeated in '76. Many consider them the best college team of all time. As far as bigger, I think this was Indiana's starting line-up:

Center Kent Benson - 6'11"
Forward Scott May - 6'7"
Forward Ted Abernathy - 6'7"
Guard - Bob Wilkerson - 6'6"
Guard - Quinn Buckner - 6'3", and built like a tank

 

[wheezer]

Was he in 1976? I know he was in 78 and 79. He averaged 8 PG in 1976.

I meant overall, his 2nd and 3rd years were better than Cliff

I overlooked the specific 1976 year part
Sorry

 

[RutgersChow]

Great for their time for sure
Players have changed, the game has changed

So I guess last years RU team would have beaten the great UCLA teams with Jabbar since the game has changed so much? You must be pretty young because what you say is absurd. Even as players were then, the 1976 Indiana team would have blown out last years Rutgers team.

 

[80RU]

Was he in 1976? I know he was in 78 and 79. He averaged 8 PG in 1976.

I know that, but my question was if Bailey was better than Cliff offensively in 1976? He only averaged 8 a game.

I would actually say yes, by the middle of the 1975–1976 season. He averaged 4 1/2 fewer points over the course of the season. But he wasn’t starting at the beginning, and Cliff played about 30% more minutes per game as a junior than JB played as a freshman.. JB already had a good midrange jump shot, and could handle the ball in the open court and drive to the basket. If I were to choose Cliff as a junior or JB as a midyear freshman to have the ball in the post in the waning seconds, I think I would choose midyear freshman JB.

 

[ruinac]

Not a knock on Cliff but JB was much better than him in all facets of the game in each of their relative first 3 seasons. He wasn’t called upon to score as a freshman because he was surrounded by Phil, Dip, Eddie and Hollis and he still averaged 8.5 PPG.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Let’s have this conversation in April of 2025, after celebrating cutting down the nets at the prudential center in the last weekend in March

 

[ruinac]

Those guys didn’t lift weights, do plyo or many other things todays players do even well before they get to college

I’m not young I’m realistic

Then also consider the different rules they played under. No dunking. No 3 pt. No taking three steps on layups. No “natural dribble” - that was carrying in 1976. No shot clock. Etc.

Plenty of today’s stars wouldn’t be stars under those rules if they were still in place.

 

[RutgersChow]

Those guys didn’t lift weights, do plyo or many other things todays players do even well before they get to college

I’m not young I’m realistic

Hyatt weighs more than Lee Alcindor did at UCLA

So now we are comparing Hyatt to maybe the greatest basketball player of all time - OK. And many players did lift weights in the late '60's. I was lifting in high school in 1970. Bulk is nice, but speed and quickness make you a great player. I'll agree that kids start earlier today, have better instruction and more opportunities to play.

So you really believe last years Rutgers team would would have beaten Indiana in 1976?

 

[rubaseball78]

I know that, but my question was if Bailey was better than Cliff offensively in 1976? He only averaged 8 a game.

I would say about same or Bailey a little better. Remember, Bailey had sellers, Dabney, Copeland and Jordan as scoring options before him.

 

[ruinac]

Taking todays players back in time is different The 3 point line and eventual understanding of math makes players and strategies very different. Todays player would be dominant athletes back then but certainly struggle with the rules difference.

Fair point. And that is why comparisons are so hard. For example, there’s no way Paul could be a point guard under 1976’s rules because he can’t dribble the ball well enough. A defender like Eddie Jordan would have repeatedly stolen it from him. Without being able to dunk, and with the D not spread out to defend against the 3pt shot, Cliff would be a non-factor on O. Without the 3pt line Cam would be a non-factor on O.


The 2022-23 Knights were better conditioned than the typical teams of 1975-76, but that team didn’t have the skillset to play by the rules of 1976 and would have gotten crushed by the best teams of the day.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

No chance of that. Indiana won the national championship and went undefeated in '76. Many consider them the best college team of all time. As far as bigger, I think this was Indiana's starting line-up:

Center Kent Benson - 6'11"
Forward Scott May - 6'7"
Forward Ted Abernathy - 6'7"
Guard - Bob Wilkerson - 6'6"
Guard - Quinn Buckner - 6'3", and built like a tank

You would have made a better case if you had argued for one of the UCLA teams. From that Indiana team, Quinn Buckner is the only guy who would have gone on to be a meaningful pro in today‘s game. And their coach was an asshole.

 

[RUChoppin]

Almost every 1976 team would be at a severe disadvantage playing against the average 2023 team using modern rules.

There were some exceptional players from that era who would be competitive today - but they weren't all on the same team in the same year. The average player from 1976 would likely struggle to make a D-I roster if transported by time machine to 2023.

There have been huge advances in weight training, conditioning, diet, and overall health for competitive athletes, and a much more robust competitive environment at the HS level. What is allowable on defense has changed dramatically, and the existence of the three-point line and loosened rules on ball handling has changed the dynamics of offense entirely.

 

[motorb54]

If you could somehow time travel that Indiana team from 1976 to 2023 they would be the worst team in the Big Ten this season

Hahahahaha! Ridiculous.
And if you transported the 2023 teams to 1976 they would rarely get the ball over half court because every one of them palms the ball on most dribbles.

One thing I hope the '23 team does that the '76 team did was to play fast.
Look up what the "76 team scored per game in an era without the three point line.

 

[Loyal_2RU]

Almost every 1976 team would be at a severe disadvantage playing against the average 2023 team using modern rules.

There were some exceptional players from that era who would be competitive today - but they weren't all on the same team in the same year. The average player from 1976 would likely struggle to make a D-I roster if transported by time machine to 2023.

There have been huge advances in weight training, conditioning, diet, and overall health for competitive athletes, and a much more robust competitive environment at the HS level. What is allowable on defense has changed dramatically, and the existence of the three-point line and loosened rules on ball handling has changed the dynamics of offense entirely.

Fail. What you want to transport these kids then deny them the modern advantages? That's an uninteresting argument.

 

[RUChoppin]

Fail. What you want to transport these kids then deny them the modern advantages? That's an uninteresting argument.

That's.... the whole point of the argument. We're not bringing these players forward as infants 18-22 years ago so they have a lifetime of modern development and their coaches forward 50ish years ago to gain a lifetime of modern coaching experience.

The average player from 1976 would be at a severe disadvantage if he stepped through a portal to 2023.

 

[rubaseball78]

Fail. What you want to transport these kids then deny them the modern advantages? That's an uninteresting argument.

That was always my thought. We are going to move them to 2023 but not allow them access to the training available today.

 

[Loyal_2RU]

That's.... the whole point of the argument. We're not bringing these players forward as infants 18-22 years ago so they have a lifetime of modern development and their coaches forward 50ish years ago to gain a lifetime of modern coaching experience.

The average player from 1976 would be at a severe disadvantage if he stepped through a portal to 2023.

The average athlete yes, but translate their basketball abilities to the modern era and that's an interesting hypothetical

 

[Unionst]

Training or not the ‘76 team could run and was in fantastic condition. And Bailey and Copeland were high flyers, more so than all current players though Cliff would probably be their equal. As for basketball skills compared over periods of time, have foul shooting percentages improved? I don’t know the answer but I suspect not.

 

[Loyal_2RU]

As I said - the 70's players came from a substantially smaller pool of athletes
even with the same training, diet and all else - teams from the 70's would be significantly behind today's teams

Cliff, Mag, Chol, Oskar, Ogbole - that's nearly half the team drawn from a pool of players that was non-existent in 1976

They were an elite team and would be today. Dabney and Jordan also could fly. And Phil was Phil.

 

[rubaseball78]

As I said - the 70's players came from a substantially smaller pool of athletes
even with the same training, diet and all else - teams from the 70's would be significantly behind today's teams

Cliff, Mag, Chol, Oskar, Ogbole - that's nearly half the team drawn from a pool of players that was non-existent in 1976

76 team had 5 people who spent time in the NBA. You think those same 5 players would still rise to the top today? I certainly do.

 

[JavaDunk18]

In terms of basketball ability/instincts, not factoring in modern nutrition & training, Gavin might be up there with the 76 starters.
Cliff's trajectory sophomore year reminded me of that of Bailey. Bailey replaced Palko early in the season (Penn game at MSG I believe) & Cliff was clear backup to Miles. Cliff took a slight step back junior year however, and would need to progress significantly to be on par with Bailey, who became a monster - but maybe that's possible this season..
Don't know about Ace & (Dylan?) yet, but at tops only 3 players from the 2025 team go to the pros.
The entire starting 5 of the '76 team was drafted. Dabs was the only one who did not play in NBA, mainly because of Jerry West. With another team, who knows..

 

[RUChoppin]

How well would players from 1927 fare against the average 1976 team? How well would professional players from the early 1930s fair against college players in 1976?

49 years is an eternity.

 

[RU82]

How do you rate players who are still in HS against guys who made it to the final four?