Uber... has anyone used it?

[Upstream]

From link ("Uber haters should take a lesson from the early days of Amazon"):

Amazon’s two-decade ascent from Internet curiosity to global juggernaut demonstrates an important lesson that foes of Uber would be wise to heed in today’s breakneck digital economy: To fight such disruptive adversaries, hire scientists and engineers, not lawyers and lobbyists. Companies must counter-innovate, not hide behind laws written for an era that has faded into distant memory.

But while the old-timers spend precious time and money on arcane issues like insurance and taxes, firms like Uber and Amazon only get bigger and better.

I don't agree with the premise of that article. Initially Amazon did have a price advantage over brick & mortar stores because it did not have to collect sales tax. But that advantage amounted to approximately 6 to 8 percent, and the that price advantage was offset by shipping fees (Amazon didn't launch Prime free shipping until 2005, and customers have to pay for Prime anyway). Today Amazon is required to collect sales tax in 25 states (and another 5 states don't have sales tax). That represents more than 80% of the nation's population. The real advantage of Amazon is selection ... and that was always the advantage marketed by Amazon (even their logo indicates they have everything from A to Z).


Likewise, I don't understand why Uber fights the insurance regulations. Just like Amazon eventually started collecting sales tax, eventually Uber drivers will have to have adequate insurance or face incredible liability. Uber is threatening to leave NJ if they are required to provide adequate insurance for drivers.

Uber has two parts to their business: The app which makes it easy to reserve and pay for a ride, and the actual ride service. The ride service is inherently no different than any other ride service. They don't have magical cars and they don't have magical drivers. What they do have is a unique app that makes it easy to connect riders and available rides.

 

[rbled]

In no way shape or form is Uber going to lose this game, least of all to some local cab consortium. They currently have a $50 Billion valuation and access to more capital than all of the local livery services combined. The reality is that local cab companies will simply change their model and work off the Uber platform (which is happening already). The idea that "it's just an app" is laughable. Is anyone really going to download the apps of each major cab company in every metro area they visit? Of course not. Cab companies are going to have to get on board because Uber will simply become the main distribution point for local transportation. Think of EBay or Craigslist. Either of those sites are easily replicable from a technical standpoint. However the thing they have that no one else can replicate is critical mass adoption. Multiple Ebays or Craig Lists are inefficient unless the provide some new functionality that neither can provide. So it is with uber.

Btw I am currently in the process of moving to San Francisco and between Uber and Zipcar, I am able to sell both of my cars. In SF you can take an Uber Pool anywhere within the city for $7 max. It is only slightly more expensive than public transit and you never have to wait more than 10 min. With the money I am saving on lease payments, insurance, gas, tolls, parking, maintenance, etc I can take a uber to/from work every day and rent a Zipcar every weekend and STIIL pay less than owning just one car, and I have a personal driver and don't have to deal with any of the headaches associated with car ownership.

Suffice to say, I'm a fan.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

Love uber...better than the rancid smelling yellow cabs and they come to you!

 

[Upstream]

In SF you can take an Uber Pool anywhere within the city for $7 max. It is only slightly more expensive than public transit and you never have to wait more than 10 min.

That is pretty cheap. In NJ, it would cost me $20 each way to use Uber for my 10 mile trip to work. I'm not sure exactly how much it costs to drive my car, but it is certainly a hell of a lot less than 2 bucks per mile.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Uber is great at taking down a lot of the local monopolies, ie, NYC cabs that won't go to to the outerboroughs, JC cabs that won't use the meter, Hoboken cabs being weird about where they will pick you up....and of course the NYC cabs that try to rip you off to drive to JC because the two states have refused to cooperate on dtermining a just fair.

My credit card also gives me 20% back on Uber instead of NYC cabs that try to say you can't use credit when it is required by law.

Only thing I don't like is the surge pricing.

 

[andysjb]

I don't agree with the premise of that article. Initially Amazon did have a price advantage over brick & mortar stores because it did not have to collect sales tax. But that advantage amounted to approximately 6 to 8 percent, and the that price advantage was offset by shipping fees (Amazon didn't launch Prime free shipping until 2005, and customers have to pay for Prime anyway). Today Amazon is required to collect sales tax in 25 states (and another 5 states don't have sales tax). That represents more than 80% of the nation's population. The real advantage of Amazon is selection ... and that was always the advantage marketed by Amazon (even their logo indicates they have everything from A to Z).


Likewise, I don't understand why Uber fights the insurance regulations. Just like Amazon eventually started collecting sales tax, eventually Uber drivers will have to have adequate insurance or face incredible liability. Uber is threatening to leave NJ if they are required to provide adequate insurance for drivers.

Uber has two parts to their business: The app which makes it easy to reserve and pay for a ride, and the actual ride service. The ride service is inherently no different than any other ride service. They don't have magical cars and they don't have magical drivers. What they do have is a unique app that makes it easy to connect riders and available rides.

I just started driving for Uber and they now provide insurance for drivers in NJ and PA.

 

[Upstream]

I just started driving for Uber and they now provide insurance for drivers in NJ and PA.

My understanding is they only provide insurance that covers you when a passenger is in your vehicle. It does not cover you while you are on your way to pick up a passenger, after you drop off the passenger, or when you are driving around waiting to get the call that you have a passenger.

What insurance do you have if you are called to take a passenger from Montclair to Newark Airport, and you are in an accident on your way to pick up the passenger in Montclair?

 

[ArminRU]

Knightshift no you won't. They do not have to have the same tort threshold as a cab company does. Uber will fold one day. It's a fad right now that will fade. It is not a legitimate business your rolling the dice everytime you get in there but go ahead

"Uber is a fad". lol wow

 

[PhDKnight]

Uber works for all parties except for cab companies that use barely road worthy cars or employ drivers that learned how to drive in the 3rd world and have not evolved their technique or like to screw their customers. I stopped using cabs or livery services because I barely ever had a trip where there was not some issue. With Uber there is never any issue. In fact, the one time I thought the driver took an inefficient route I received a refund within hours.

As an aside, I met the father of one of our very own OLs when he picked me up for a night out a couple months ago. Great conversation about this board of all things - he is a frequent reader and poster.

 

[RutgersUnion]

Only thing I don't like is the surge pricing.

The reasoning behind surge pricing makes sense. When there aren't enough cars in a certain area its their way of encouraging more drivers to get on the road. Some drivers don't want to go to an area with a lot of traffic so the surge pricing is an incentive.

 

[RutgersUnion]

Knightshift no you won't. They do not have to have the same tort threshold as a cab company does. Uber will fold one day. It's a fad right now that will fade. It is not a legitimate business your rolling the dice everytime you get in there but go ahead

Really? That's like saying cell phones are a fad because everyone has phones in their houses already. Maybe the model will change to the way it is regulated in NYC but this is the future.

 

[Knight_Light]

My understanding is they only provide insurance that covers you when a passenger is in your vehicle. It does not cover you while you are on your way to pick up a passenger, after you drop off the passenger, or when you are driving around waiting to get the call that you have a passenger.

What insurance do you have if you are called to take a passenger from Montclair to Newark Airport, and you are in an accident on your way to pick up the passenger in Montclair?

Good post.

Had a friend in Orlando that was driving for UBER with passengers on a fare when another vehicle crossed the yellow line on a crowded road (wasn't going fast) and hit him head on...totalled his car.

Passengers in the back were not wearing seatbelts and got thrown into the front bucket seats. Driver was worried the passengers would sue him, even though accident wasn't his fault.

I will check in with him this week to provide an update.

 

[andysjb]

My understanding is they only provide insurance that covers you when a passenger is in your vehicle. It does not cover you while you are on your way to pick up a passenger, after you drop off the passenger, or when you are driving around waiting to get the call that you have a passenger.

What insurance do you have if you are called to take a passenger from Montclair to Newark Airport, and you are in an accident on your way to pick up the passenger in Montclair?

I believe that as long as you are "online" meaning waiting to get called for ride you are covered. Now I just read the NJ section of the addendum that was sent to me. Not sure if it is the same in other states.

 

[Upstream]

I believe that as long as you are "online" meaning waiting to get called for ride you are covered. Now I just read the NJ section of the addendum that was sent to me. Not sure if it is the same in other states.

From this article (http://www.northjersey.com/news/business/uber-balks-at-proposed-insurance-regs-1.1294690), it appears that Uber's insurance kicks in when the driver accepts the ride request. But there is an insurance coverage gap during the time that the driver turns on the Uber app until he accepts the ride request.

 

[RBS05]

From this article (http://www.northjersey.com/news/business/uber-balks-at-proposed-insurance-regs-1.1294690), it appears that Uber's insurance kicks in when the driver accepts the ride request. But there is an insurance coverage gap during the time that the driver turns on the Uber app until he accepts the ride request.

Makes sense though. Otherwise Uber is basically covering a driver's insurance coverage while he/she drives around doing errands with the app open.

 

[Upstream]

Makes sense though. Otherwise Uber is basically covering a driver's insurance coverage while he/she drives around doing errands with the app open.

But to what extent are drivers running personal errands while waiting for a ride request. It is not like you can be out grocery shopping and accept a ride request but first run home before your ice cream melts. And you can't take a rider with luggage to Newark Airport if your trunk is full of building supplies from Home Depot. Pretty much you are limited to "mom's taxi" type errands, like turning on your app on your way home after dropping the kids off at soccer practice.


The article I linked indicates that 1 in 4 Uber trips in NJ start or end at a rail station. So if I'm an Uber driver hoping to make money, I am not expecting to get ride requests while I'm in the Shop Rite parking lot. I'm driving to a nearby rail station as the next train comes in, and driving around the block to make sure I am close to the station when the next ride is requested.

If you are an Uber driver with your app on and hit my car on Easton Ave breaking my arm, you can be damned sure that my lawyer will convincingly argue that you are a commercial driver; that if it were not for you being an Uber driver you would not have been in the vicinity of the NB train station; that as a commercial driver you are not covered by NJ's insurance lawsuit threshold; and that the jury should award me $75,000 in damages to cover my medical bills and pain and suffering. Of course your personal liability insurance won't cover you. So will the $75,000 come out of your pocket, or will Uber pay?

 

[RBS05]

My point was that I don't believes it costs anything to become an Uber driver. If that's the case, someone could sign up to become a driver, maybe pay a nominal application fee, turn on the app so that they are available, go about their normal day, never accept rides, and have Uber cover their insurance needs.

 

[derleider]

My point was that I don't believes it costs anything to become an Uber driver. If that's the case, someone could sign up to become a driver, maybe pay a nominal application fee, turn on the app so that they are available, go about their normal day, never accept rides, and have Uber cover their insurance needs.

Thats true. But you have to accept a pretty high percentage of rides to remain a driver. So I guess you could game the system if you say ran all of your errands at times all at once at times when there arent alot of people calling for Uber rides. Also you need to have verified insurance to get approved in the first place. So at best, in the very off chance you have an accident in the short time you could run errands, then it ends up on Uber's insurance and not your own. Doesnt seem like a worthwhile scam unless you plan on totaling your car just for the insurance money.

 

[andysjb]

From this article (http://www.northjersey.com/news/business/uber-balks-at-proposed-insurance-regs-1.1294690), it appears that Uber's insurance kicks in when the driver accepts the ride request. But there is an insurance coverage gap during the time that the driver turns on the Uber app until he accepts the ride request.

Ok, this an excerpt from the Uber website regarding insurance coverage:

While logged on to the Uber application provided by the company and available to accept user requests, but prior to being matched with a user, company provides primary automobile liability insurance...

It goes on to the amounts it covers, then it also mentions the coverage when you pick up a passenger.

 

[Upstream]

Ok, this an excerpt from the Uber website regarding insurance coverage:

While logged on to the Uber application provided by the company and available to accept user requests, but prior to being matched with a user, company provides primary automobile liability insurance...

It goes on to the amounts it covers, then it also mentions the coverage when you pick up a passenger.

Interesting. Then I don't understand why Uber is threatening to leave NJ if they are required to provide insurance for drivers logged into their app, but who haven't been matched with a ride request. (Do you have the link that you quoted. I wonder if there is something significant elsewhere in the link.)

 

[Terry_2426]

Only thing I don't like is the surge pricing.

Surge pricing is the exact reason Uber works so well. If there are 10 available drivers and only 3 people looking for rides, I don't want to pay "full price" and if there are only 3 drivers and 10 people looking for rides there's a chance I'm willing to pay a little more to jump the line so to speak versus waiting for the other 9 people to get their rides first.

 

[derleider]

Surge pricing is the exact reason Uber works so well. If there are 10 available drivers and only 3 people looking for rides, I don't want to pay "full price" and if there are only 3 drivers and 10 people looking for rides there's a chance I'm willing to pay a little more to jump the line so to speak versus waiting for the other 9 people to get their rides first.

But thats not really how it works. I mean how often do you get the Uber price, then turn it down in order to just take a cab or bus instead? What really is supposed to happen is that the higher prices are supposed to bring out more drivers.

What I suspect actually happens is that there is a relatively inflexible amount of drivers at any given time. I would guess that most Uber drivers arent sitting around gauging the prices to figure out if they should drive or not. It probably works when its a regular occurrence - so like maybe if every Friday night at the bar district is surge pricing - then it brings out more drivers - but in theory that should balance out pretty quickly and reduce the surge pricing. If it doesnt, then surge pricing is really just takign advantage of a supply and demand mismatch.

In essence, my guess is that for the most part, its just price gouging. Thats alright - Uber isnt a public service (I would consider cabs to be essentially a personalized public transit option - given the heavy relgulations on drivers, prices, ability to turn down fares, etc), so they can charge whatever they want, and you can pick anoher app that doesnt do surge pricing, but you will wait longer.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

You know it is good when some people here , who freaking hate everything and more so new stuff, are raving about it!

Next time I need a "cab" I will give it a shot!

 

[mikebal9]

By the way, I do exactly what you described above, and I do get rides. When I'm on my way home from a

But thats not really how it works. I mean how often do you get the Uber price, then turn it down in order to just take a cab or bus instead? What really is supposed to happen is that the higher prices are supposed to bring out more drivers.

What I suspect actually happens is that there is a relatively inflexible amount of drivers at any given time. I would guess that most Uber drivers arent sitting around gauging the prices to figure out if they should drive or not. It probably works when its a regular occurrence - so like maybe if every Friday night at the bar district is surge pricing - then it brings out more drivers - but in theory that should balance out pretty quickly and reduce the surge pricing. If it doesnt, then surge pricing is really just takign advantage of a supply and demand mismatch.

In essence, my guess is that for the most part, its just price gouging. Thats alright - Uber isnt a public service (I would consider cabs to be essentially a personalized public transit option - given the heavy relgulations on drivers, prices, ability to turn down fares, etc), so they can charge whatever they want, and you can pick anoher app that doesnt do surge pricing, but you will wait longer.

Actually, while not exactly what you describe, it does work something like this. When I'm out, if there is surge pricing, I'll stay out later, as I did the other night. It causes drivers to stay on the road longer instead of calling it a night.

 

[ru66]

as I said before it's only a matter of time before uber is cracked down on by nyc--http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...e-blasio-war-on-uber-with-bid-to-limit-growth---also don't you uber guys wonder how all this so called savings on your parts translates to utterly crappy wages for the drivers--wait till the taxes start flying theses drivers will be making less than min wage

 

[vkj91]

Über not working today?

 

[Terry_2426]

But thats not really how it works. I mean how often do you get the Uber price, then turn it down in order to just take a cab or bus instead? What really is supposed to happen is that the higher prices are supposed to bring out more drivers.

What I suspect actually happens is that there is a relatively inflexible amount of drivers at any given time. I would guess that most Uber drivers arent sitting around gauging the prices to figure out if they should drive or not. It probably works when its a regular occurrence - so like maybe if every Friday night at the bar district is surge pricing - then it brings out more drivers - but in theory that should balance out pretty quickly and reduce the surge pricing. If it doesnt, then surge pricing is really just takign advantage of a supply and demand mismatch.

In essence, my guess is that for the most part, its just price gouging. Thats alright - Uber isnt a public service (I would consider cabs to be essentially a personalized public transit option - given the heavy relgulations on drivers, prices, ability to turn down fares, etc), so they can charge whatever they want, and you can pick anoher app that doesnt do surge pricing, but you will wait longer.

If the price is too high, then I'm turning it down--which I've done before. All Uber is is dynamic pricing but for transportation instead of for a sporting event. More people want to go to OSU instead of Norfolk State, so the OSU price is significantly higher. More people need a ride at 5:10 pm instead of 10:30 am, so the price is higher if there are more riders than drivers at that time.

 

[andysjb]

But thats not really how it works. I mean how often do you get the Uber price, then turn it down in order to just take a cab or bus instead? What really is supposed to happen is that the higher prices are supposed to bring out more drivers.

What I suspect actually happens is that there is a relatively inflexible amount of drivers at any given time. I would guess that most Uber drivers arent sitting around gauging the prices to figure out if they should drive or not. It probably works when its a regular occurrence - so like maybe if every Friday night at the bar district is surge pricing - then it brings out more drivers - but in theory that should balance out pretty quickly and reduce the surge pricing. If it doesnt, then surge pricing is really just takign advantage of a supply and demand mismatch.

In essence, my guess is that for the most part, its just price gouging. Thats alright - Uber isnt a public service (I would consider cabs to be essentially a personalized public transit option - given the heavy relgulations on drivers, prices, ability to turn down fares, etc), so they can charge whatever they want, and you can pick anoher app that doesnt do surge pricing, but you will wait longer.

I drive when I have free time and don't need to do anything, so sometimes it's during busy times and sometimes it isn't. Uber sends a weekly email to drivers telling them when the busiest times are in their area.

 

[derleider]

If the price is too high, then I'm turning it down--which I've done before. All Uber is is dynamic pricing but for transportation instead of for a sporting event. More people want to go to OSU instead of Norfolk State, so the OSU price is significantly higher. More people need a ride at 5:10 pm instead of 10:30 am, so the price is higher if there are more riders than drivers at that time.

Yes - I understand. But thats not what you are saying, nor what Uber really claims.

Uber is really doing it because they can. They try to claim they do it because it will help match supply and demand. But in reality, like I said - I doubt that the market is responsive enough on either side for that to matter.

andy - thats exacltly what Im saying. You drive when you feel like it. You arent leaving a baseball game to go drive people home because you found out that Uber had surge pricing on.

Incidentally, I also signed up to be a driver, although my car is a mess, and so I have never actually driven. So i get the same emails.

 

[RBS05]

as I said before it's only a matter of time before uber is cracked down on by nyc--http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...e-blasio-war-on-uber-with-bid-to-limit-growth---also don't you uber guys wonder how all this so called savings on your parts translates to utterly crappy wages for the drivers--wait till the taxes start flying theses drivers will be making less than min wage

And as also has been said before:

"It’s the latest salvo in a fight between the traditional taxi and limousine industry, which gave de Blasio’s 2013 mayoral campaign more than $500,000, and digital ride-hailing companies like Uber and Lyft. The taxi industry also donated more than $150,000 to council members, including more than $8,500 to Ydanis Rodriguez, chairman of the Transportation Committee, who said Tuesday that the growth limits would be imposed."

Are you aware of how and how much the drivers are paid as you are saying this?

And love the dismissive "uber guys" designation.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Just to be clear, I understand why Uber has surge pricing, I am just not a fan of it. If it is a big travel night like NYE or Halloween it may also push more people who should not be traveling onto the street- like the cabs that try to not turn on the meter those nights, for example.

 

[ru66]

goodness--just listen to all those glowing stories about cheap it is--factor in when nyc requires licenses, testing,the cost of gas and the car and the tlc taxes to come and it doesn't take much to realize uber makes the $ but the drivers will get screwed--by the way take a "real cab" and ask the driver how much(little) uber drivers make compared to their own earnings which stink also

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

I used to dislike the idea of Uber, because I preferred the idea of a licensed medallion cab. Seemed safer and better regulated. Then I tried Uber. 90% of the time I use it, a normal person picks me up in a normal car. We have a normal conversation. They drive me where I am going, and my cash and wallet never leave my pocket. When we get there, I say thanks and get out of the car.

100% of the time I use a cab its someone I cannot talk to, usually who doesn't speak English, in a filthy car, and Ive got to deal with a cash transaction when I get where I am going.

Put the fact that it is significantly cheaper on top of all that, and its a no brainer.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

as I said before it's only a matter of time before uber is cracked down on by nyc--http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...e-blasio-war-on-uber-with-bid-to-limit-growth---also don't you uber guys wonder how all this so called savings on your parts translates to utterly crappy wages for the drivers--wait till the taxes start flying theses drivers will be making less than min wage

Lol. Let's take your false accusation as true - Uber drivers make less than minimum wage.

Am I supposed to use a taxi limousine that is more expensive because the driver makes more? Do you actually do this? What about the manufacturers? Do you ask if you can pay more for merchandise? Why not just go around handing money out to people who aren't getting paid enough? By this rationale, no one should ever try to save money...since someone somewhere is making up the difference.

Here's a quick lesson in economics. If Uber didn't pay enough, people wouldn't drive for Uber. This seems pretty far from the case, as there are tons of people, many of whom have normal jobs, driving for Uber during their off time.

 

[andysjb]

Lol. Let's take your false accusation as true - Uber drivers make less than minimum wage.

Am I supposed to use a taxi limousine that is more expensive because the driver makes more? Do you actually do this? What about the manufacturers? Do you ask if you can pay more for merchandise? Why not just go around handing money out to people who aren't getting paid enough? By this rationale, no one should ever try to save money...since someone somewhere is making up the difference.

Here's a quick lesson in economics. If Uber didn't pay enough, people wouldn't drive for Uber.

I have not been driving for Uber that long, but I can assure you I make much more then minimum wage even after talking out gas and wear and tear.

 

[mikebal9]

Yea, I'm making about $16-18 per hour after gas.

 

[jmc11201]

Yes - I understand. But thats not what you are saying, nor what Uber really claims.

Uber is really doing it because they can. They try to claim they do it because it will help match supply and demand. But in reality, like I said - I doubt that the market is responsive enough on either side for that to matter.

andy - thats exacltly what Im saying. You drive when you feel like it. You arent leaving a baseball game to go drive people home because you found out that Uber had surge pricing on.

Incidentally, I also signed up to be a driver, although my car is a mess, and so I have never actually driven. So i get the same emails.

I'm not following:

One poster says he turns down the ride if the surge pricing is too high...thus lowering demand. A driver states that he stays out later if surge pricing is in effect...thus raising supply. Sounds like Econ 101. Is it 100% responsive...well, of course not...but it pushes supply and demand more into balance and allows those willing to pay more to move up in line.

 

[ru66]

I don't use uber and won't---you take my joke about min wage too seriously but my feeling is the drivers are being screwed to save the riders a few bucks--I take cabs all the time and have great conversations with the cabbies

 

[NotInRHouse]

I don't use uber and won't---you take my joke about min wage too seriously but my feeling is the drivers are being screwed to save the riders a few bucks--I take cabs all the time and have great conversations with the cabbies

The TLC has burned itself with its stodgy ways. They are the ones with drivers violating the law on out of Manhattan fares and not taking credit. I really struggle to feel bad for them. Do you feel sorry for businesses that lose customers for bad service? I don't. I work hard for my money, and I like to give it to the deserving. Monopolies are not deserving.

 

[RBS05]

I don't use uber and won't---you take my joke about min wage too seriously but my feeling is the drivers are being screwed to save the riders a few bucks--I take cabs all the time and have great conversations with the cabbies

Hilarious. I will donate $100 to the charity of your choice if you post a video of your "great conversation" with a NYC cab driver. An actual conversation...not you videoing the conversation he is having with another driver through his Bluetooth earpiece.

What a joke.

I'll ask again...do you understand how Uber drivers are paid?