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2 years ago Boston College was 0-18 in conference

Local Shill

Local Shill

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2 years ago Boston College was 0-18 in conference.

Last year there were 2-16.

This year they're a pretty respectable 6-9 and 16-12 overall in a league every bit as tough as the Big Ten.

That's about where we need to be next year. In what seems like another lifetime, Schiano went from 1 win in his second year to 5 in his 3rd. If Pikiell is going to enjoy the moderate success GS had, we need to start to make a jump.
 
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I am worried about next year w/l wise if Corey decides not to return. I'm still not sure where are points are going to come from and relying on freshman has proven to be frustrating. Still think we're on the right track just not convinced next year is the year to step it up. I think if sanders returns we have a shot at breaking .500
 
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Local Shill said:
2 years ago Boston College was 0-18 in conference.

Last year there were 2-16.

This year they're a pretty respectable 6-9 and 16-12 overall in a league every bit as tough as the Big Ten.

That's about where we need to be next year. In what seems like another lifetime, Schiano went from 1 win in his second year to 5 in his 3rd. If Pikiell is going to enjoy the moderate success GS had, we need to start to make a jump.
Click to expand...

Two years ago, Boston College was in their 2nd year of a new head coach.... that's where we are right now.

Last year, Boston College was in their 3rd year of a new head coach, which is where we'll be in the rebuild next year... and finished 9-23 (2-16).

Asking Pike to be in Jim Christian's Year 4, while he's only in Year 3, is skipping a year.

And even in Year 4, Boston College is still 16-12 (6-9) with three remaining games against bubble teams (two on the road). If BC finishes 16-16 (6-12), I'm not so sure that's the path we'd want to model.
 
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I think Shill's post is reasonable. I know after some games like last night it seems like we are far away from that, but we really were not this year. Need to continue to build quality depth to play the grind it out style we want to play. I'm not saying we are putting the Warriors out there next year, but if Corey returns with the new guys will be have additional and better options to take the pressure off everybody.
 
Can the offense get much worse without Sanders? We are content to let the shot clock go down and then let a 30% (on the road) shooter go iso. I wonder what his shooting percentage is when there is less than seconds left on the clock.
 
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Good comparison/bad comparison.

Pikiell made the decision from Day 1 to try and keep the talent he had on the roster. It most likely will be the single most important decision he had to make and unfortunately he probably made the wrong one.

In the summer between Year 2 and Year 3 our success in Year 3 will be dictated by whether a player he didn't recruit stays or leaves. We have to hope a JUCO who doesn't start on his Junior College team is a starting B1G power forward. We have threads talking about grad transfers.

JUCOs and grad transfers (especially one's going to RU) do NOT equal HS players. They are MUCH higher risk. See the one we have now.

BC and RU took different paths. Great case study, but terrible comparison.
 
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Pikes success will depend on how well he can turn the roster over and bring in better players. Plain and simple
 
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Greene Rice FIG said:
Good comparison/bad comparison.

Pikiell made the decision from Day 1 to try and keep the talent he had on the roster. It most likely will be the single most important decision he had to make and unfortunately he probably made the wrong one.

In the summer between Year 2 and Year 3 our success in Year 3 will be dictated by whether a player he didn't recruit stays or leaves. We have to hope a JUCO who doesn't start on his Junior College team is a starting B1G power forward. We have threads talking about grad transfers.

JUCOs and grad transfers (especially one's going to RU) do NOT equal HS players. They are MUCH higher risk. See the one we have now.

BC and RU took different paths. Great case study, but terrible comparison.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I'd say that about grad transfers. We haven't had many grad transfers, but the few we've had (Gettys, Grier, Moore) have had a better "hit rate" than the freshmen we've brought in.

I also don't know if he made the wrong decision trying to keep players - was he really in the position relationship-wise coming in to recruit a top shelf class for 2016 (or even for 2017)?
 
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It will be ugly if Corey doesn’t come back and Pike can’t get a good grad transfer or JUCO
 
We need better players. Plain & Simple. Pike is a good coach & can win with talent. We need to show the door
to the players that are not BIG10 worthy. No more Mr. nice guy u can keep your scholarship. There are plenty of basketball players in our region to fill our squad. There is no more excuses. Next year we need significant improvement & then the following year we dance. It can be done. It's not rocket science
 
KNICKI said:
We need better players. Plain & Simple. Pike is a good coach & can win with talent. We need to show the door
to the players that are not BIG10 worthy. No more Mr. nice guy u can keep your scholarship. There are plenty of basketball players in our region to fill our squad. There is no more excuses. Next year we need significant improvement & then the following year we dance. It can be done. It's not rocket science
Click to expand...

Well, we're getting some decent turnover next year, as we'll have 5 new players on the floor, and likely more.

Definitely out: Freeman (PF), Williams (SG/WF), Sa (C/PF), two empty RS roster slots
Definitely in: Mathis (SG), Carter (PF/C), Kiss (WF/SG), Johnson (C), Harper (WF)

Other possible departures: Sanders (PG), Doorson (C), Bullock (WF), Mensah (PG)

Personally, I'd like to retain Sanders/Doorson and get upgrades for Bullock/Mensah. I'm sure we'll have a pretty good bead on how those possibilities will turn out over the next few weeks.
 
Can the new guys provide enough offense ? If the answer isn't yes, we haven't gained much except in the roster movement. It's simple " can't shoot, can't win". When you have offensive woes you would think anyone will help and that will lead to improvement, but we're not moving in that directions, yet.
Hard to compare our situation with other schools when you can't score points.
 
RUsince52 said:
Can the new guys provide enough offense ? If the answer isn't yes, we haven't gained much except in the roster movement. It's simple " can't shoot, can't win". When you have offensive woes you would think anyone will help and that will lead to improvement, but we're not moving in that directions, yet.
Hard to compare our situation with other schools when you can't score points.
Click to expand...

Well, the new guys can definitely score more points than the two blank roster spots we have right now, at least. :)
 
If any players seek a transfer that's one thing. If they cannot cut it academically that's another.

But " showing guys the door " IMO because they aren't good enough players isn't going to happen at Rutgers

I don't think this coach would do it and I don't think the AD would allow it.
 
Greene Rice FIG said:
Good comparison/bad comparison.

Pikiell made the decision from Day 1 to try and keep the talent he had on the roster. It most likely will be the single most important decision he had to make and unfortunately he probably made the wrong one.

In the summer between Year 2 and Year 3 our success in Year 3 will be dictated by whether a player he didn't recruit stays or leaves. We have to hope a JUCO who doesn't start on his Junior College team is a starting B1G power forward. We have threads talking about grad transfers.

JUCOs and grad transfers (especially one's going to RU) do NOT equal HS players. They are MUCH higher risk. See the one we have now.

BC and RU took different paths. Great case study, but terrible comparison.
Click to expand...

Not exactly the same but BC was at least starting from a decent point of talent....they have 3 very good guards to start with, RU will have at least 2 or possibly 3 next year, but Sanders and Baker are not at the level of skill shooting wise as the BC backcourt.....Mathis and Baker might take that jump up next year.

The JUCO not starting on his team has been explained 15 ways since the topic has come up....the roster has at least 5 to 6 D1 players on it, including Carter....there is no relevance to him splitting time with another D1 starting caliber PF.

2018 recruiting is not completed by a long shot....while we are assuredly looking and wondering what and where things can be, it's probably best to not assume that sticking with the players we had, wasn't the best move...it certainly was and has contributed to Year 1's modest gains in performance, leading to the success of 2018 recruiting and into 2019 recruiting as well. Sure, I'd rather not be under .500 again, but the impact to the fan base is what most here are translating or transferring to the impact to recruiting, when it's certainly not been the case.

I can go up and down a list of teams that have winning records and will probably make the NCAA's and recruiting is cyclical. RU has a ways to go to build the roster, but there is no guarantee that Hobbs would have signed off on shedding or sending any Eddie Jordan kids out the door...I don't think that would have played out well and rarely does that happen anymore with APR and graduation rates impacting programs.

Check back by September or October and I'm pretty certain that RU's fortunes will be significantly better then....That doesn't mean the 2018-19 season is guaranteed to be an NIT run, but the next few months of recruiting and revamping the roster for 2018 spring recruiting and summer of 2019 kids, will be pretty strong indicators on where things are going....BC has made significant strides as has Wake Forest, who actually has positioned themselves much better than people believe....if anyone is ready to make the jump in the ACC, it's Wake over BC, over Georgia Tech and certainly moving towards .500 or higher to get back into Bubble status....
 
TDIrish27 said:
If any players seek a transfer that's one thing. If they cannot cut it academically that's another.

But " showing guys the door " IMO because they aren't good enough players isn't going to happen at Rutgers

I don't think this coach would do it and I don't think the AD would allow it.
Click to expand...

I think that's a bit naive.

Not everything is sinister - sometimes "it's not working out" conversations need to be had in the best interests of both the player and the team.

Coach Pike will surely have 1 on 1 talks with all the players following the season about how he plans to use them next season, and what all their options are. I'd also imagine some players will be advised that their role moving forward would be limited to the practice squad - which could lead into a conversation about ways the staff could help them land at a school that would give them more opportunity.
 
NewJerseyHawk said:
The JUCO not starting on his team has been explained 15 ways since the topic has come up....the roster has at least 5 to 6 D1 players on it, including Carter....there is no relevance to him splitting time with another D1 starting caliber PF..
Click to expand...

I respect you, but the argument is downright comical. Are you going to say wins and losses don't matter either in Junior College. Take a look at the box score of close games.
 
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RUC the kid of today is not stupid-----take the Mensah kid.

He knows he doesn't figure in their plans next year. He also knows he's 1 year away from a Rutgers degree that impacts the next 40 years of his life.

He isn't walking away from that to play at Ramapo.

Ditto Bullock-----he isn't going to have any D-1 options in terms of a transfer

If you were an FDU or some such school would take him ? I sure wouldn't.

The crux of recruiting is relationships and trust. A coach sits in your living room and tells your parents " I am going to take care of your son ".

How is running him off playing to that dynamic ?

It's wrong and it's scummy-----you sign kids------you must think they have some ability----if you're wrong you live with the mistake-----especially with a JC kid.

Barring academics I see both those players on next years roster.
 
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NewJerseyHawk said:
Not exactly the same but BC was at least starting from a decent point of talent....they have 3 very good guards to start with, RU will have at least 2 or possibly 3 next year, but Sanders and Baker are not at the level of skill shooting wise as the BC backcourt.....Mathis and Baker might take that jump up next year.

The JUCO not starting on his team has been explained 15 ways since the topic has come up....the roster has at least 5 to 6 D1 players on it, including Carter....there is no relevance to him splitting time with another D1 starting caliber PF.

2018 recruiting is not completed by a long shot....while we are assuredly looking and wondering what and where things can be, it's probably best to not assume that sticking with the players we had, wasn't the best move...it certainly was and has contributed to Year 1's modest gains in performance, leading to the success of 2018 recruiting and into 2019 recruiting as well. Sure, I'd rather not be under .500 again, but the impact to the fan base is what most here are translating or transferring to the impact to recruiting, when it's certainly not been the case.

I can go up and down a list of teams that have winning records and will probably make the NCAA's and recruiting is cyclical. RU has a ways to go to build the roster, but there is no guarantee that Hobbs would have signed off on shedding or sending any Eddie Jordan kids out the door...I don't think that would have played out well and rarely does that happen anymore with APR and graduation rates impacting programs.

Check back by September or October and I'm pretty certain that RU's fortunes will be significantly better then....That doesn't mean the 2018-19 season is guaranteed to be an NIT run, but the next few months of recruiting and revamping the roster for 2018 spring recruiting and summer of 2019 kids, will be pretty strong indicators on where things are going....BC has made significant strides as has Wake Forest, who actually has positioned themselves much better than people believe....if anyone is ready to make the jump in the ACC, it's Wake over BC, over Georgia Tech and certainly moving towards .500 or higher to get back into Bubble status....
Click to expand...

Shaq not starting because they're trying to give more exposure to the other PF I believe you said. Was that verified by you that is the reason he's not starting? How good has Shaq looked?
 
TDIrish27 said:
RUC the kid of today is not stupid-----take the Mensah kid.

He knows he doesn't figure in their plans next year. He also knows he's 1 year away from a Rutgers degree that impacts the next 40 years of his life.

He isn't walking away from that to play at Ramapo.

Ditto Bullock-----he isn't going to have any D-1 options in terms of a transfer

If you were an FDU or some such school would take him ? I sure wouldn't.

The crux of recruiting is relationships and trust. A coach sits in your living room and tells your parents " I am going to take care of your son ".

How is running him off playing to that dynamic ?

It's wrong and it's scummy-----you sign kids------you must think they have some ability----if you're wrong you live with the mistake-----especially with a JC kid.

Barring academics I see both those players on next years roster.
Click to expand...

You recruit kids who want to play, and you tell the family that you're going to work in the kid's best interest. Sometimes that best interest is finding playing time at another institution. I don't see that as scummy at all.

Bullock has 3 to play 2 at another school - and I think he'd draw some interest given the small sample he's shown this year. His biggest challenge is getting his weight/conditioning under control, but he has enough skills to play in a non-elite league.
 
Define " some interest "

Is anyone going to give him a full scholarship ?

Is the Mensah kid going to get a full ride somewhere ?

Doubt it on both ?
 
TDIrish27 said:
" I'm going to work in your kids best interest "

Right after mine
Click to expand...

Nothing saying that interests can't align. Sometimes players have high hopes and big dreams, and end up on the bench after failing to make the rotation or being recruited over - and those players very often transfer to other programs where they will see the court. You don't think a lot of those decisions start with a conversation about their future role with the team? As you say, kids aren't stupid - they know when they come to a program that they may end up finishing their scholarship somewhere else. It's rare that a scholarship kid rides the pine with the walk-ons for four years.
 
TDIrish27 said:
Define " some interest "

Is anyone going to give him a full scholarship ?

Is the Mensah kid going to get a full ride somewhere ?

Doubt it on both ?
Click to expand...

I definitely think Bullock could pick up a full scholarship at a lower conference program. Mensah, not as much - he'd probably need to drop down to Div-III. The math isn't the same for the two of them, either - Mensah only has one more year to sit with walkon minutes, whereas Bullock would have two.

My guess would be that Mensah stays and Bullock transfers. I'm 60% that Sanders stays, and 70% that Doorson does.
 
PatrickRU92 said:
I am worried about next year w/l wise if Corey decides not to return. I'm still not sure where are points are going to come from and relying on freshman has proven to be frustrating. Still think we're on the right track just not convinced next year is the year to step it up. I think if sanders returns we have a shot at breaking .500
Click to expand...
It won't be easy because the out of conference schedule will include road games.This season was set up for a winning record with the easy out of conference schedule but the home losses to Stony Brook /Hartford and the total futility on B1G road games was to much to overcome with the lack of shooters.
 
Greene Rice FIG said:
I respect you, but the argument is downright comical. Are you going to say wins and losses don't matter either in Junior College. Take a look at the box score of close games.
Click to expand...

OK....I have watched 3 of the Eastern Florida games on line....I at least can tell you when he gets the ball and when guards jack up quick shots....If you can also tell me the teams win/loss record, the players on the roster and where they are likely going to school next year and then we can discuss it....Probably a good idea vs guessing or throwing something up the air with no substance or evidence behind it.

If you aren't happy that the JUCO Shaq Carter isn't the 2nd coming of Larry Johnson coming out of San Jacinto TX to Jerry Tarkianian and UNLV in 1990, then I understand your concerns 100%.....No one is saying this is that type of player....On the other hand, it appears you are somehow unaware or late to the party, which is fine.....or just have no idea on what the actual details are, which is also fine as well....If I didn't research something, I probably would say something as if it's so certain....unless you have something to actually back up your statement.

I'm not saying Shaq Carter is going to be an All B1G Ten 1st team player, but I'm not saying he's a non-factor because he doesn't "start" or play a certain number of minutes....The actuality would be that if I was RU, I'd ask for a reduced number of minutes, not more....what if the player plays 35 minutes a game and winds up getting injured..?? He's already signed and secured his scholarship....if anything, I'd rather have Shaq Carter on ice or not even playing much at all, if it were up to me....the quicker he gets here and is 100% healthy, the better.
 
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